Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.

[Falconv1.0]

Unless someone is going to respond to Avarice's post I think anti ban should just get +9,000 votes.

 

[BSP]

He's one of the hardest characters for Kirby and MK to gimp, if you seriously think I'm wrong on that you need to go to tourneys or troll youtube. Have you see how high that mother ****er goes? You can live past 2005 with that **** on some stages

The fact that you're so butthurt over a joking comment about your name due to it's lack of originality=YOU NEED TO LURK MOAR.

Thank you for reinforcing me. He must be joking if he thinks it's easy to hit a good snake that's recovering

 

[AvaricePanda]

A) technical definitions of priority being used. i approve.
maybe i shoulda been more specific and said that he has nice range and speed and power for his attacks, and has safe moves can practically beat anything that isn't a projectile.

B + C) I can honestly say that I know nothing of the IC and do get wrecked by them.

Yet still, you put up a 2 line VERY BASIC summary of what MK can do and used it as your evidence to MK can be really broken in the future.

I can do that with any character I want to.

"Snake is really broken! He has an amazing camping game, a disjointed F-tilt that does 21%, one of the best if not the best kill moves in the game, his U-tilt, with a disjointed range and high knock-back, and he has the tools to get the percent to kill early, with his D-throw tech chases and N-air and D-air that do over 20%! He can also recover really well and survives really well too!"

 

[noradseven]

Nu is moar broken den MK.

For now at least , I don't think she will drop but her matchs will become less stupid, aka no more no negative matchs no even matchs I **** u all hahaha.

 

[Teran]

No way! I've been using sprites of all the prosecutors and immitating them for ages now!

As long as you aren't using Manfred von Karma then I don't have a problem.
I was born Manfred von Karma on this place, even my custom title says so!

Make me proud Franziska.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Ill respond to it

 

[HowaitoKumaSan]

 

[xDD-Master]

He Has Good Taunts

OMG Ban pl0x

He also has his own Victory Theme, while he is one of the Kirby Characters =O



Btw. see how fast this discussion grows <,<

People really love to complain about banning him, just do it, and all the blubbering will have an end >_>

THIS

 

[SnowballBob33]

How About This:
Ban Mk.

If You Are One Of The People Who Likes Fighting Mk Because Its Fun Or You Think He Makes The Game Interesting Or Whatever Your Logic Is How Bout You Do This. Tell Your Opponent "Hey, I Don't Mind You Picking Metaknight Against Me"

What Other Reason Do You Have To Keep Metaknight Than You Using Him? And With That In Mind, That Makes About 50% Of Smashers Mk Mains/secondaries.
Which then goes back to the whole broken/CP thing ...

 

[Scidadle]

I am elite. That is all you need to know.

More like stuck up and obnoxious.

 

[Falconv1.0]

As long as you aren't using Manfred von Karma then I don't have a problem.
I was born Manfred von Karma on this place, even my custom title says so!

Make me proud Franziska.

teran thinks he's so **** smart and badass cuz he's using miles edgeworth sprites in his arguments

lmfao what a god**** nerd

 

[Xyro77]

Or maybe the SBR lets things besides the poll influence their decision.

if i was allowed to tell you some of the things i have noticed back there.......you would commit suicide

 

[Cloud9157]

He's one of the hardest characters for Kirby and MK to gimp, if you seriously think I'm wrong on that you need to go to tourneys or troll youtube. Have you see how high that mother ****er goes? You can live past 2005 with that **** on some stages

The fact that you're so butthurt over a joking comment about your name due to it's lack of originality=YOU NEED TO LURK MOAR.

Tell that to M2K. He did that a few times to Ally at Apex. And anymore characters that can't gimp him well, or do Kirby and MK represent the entire cast?

I love how you go from being dead serious to kidding around. And I can hardly tell if people are serious or not over the Internet...

And I try not to lurk, as it isn't all that healthy for you.

 

[noradseven]

nice avatar post combo, also yeah p. much

 

[fkacyan]

For now at least , I don't think she will drop but her matchs will become less stupid, aka no more no negative matchs no even matchs I **** u all hahaha.

Step 1: Block first two drive hits
Step 2: Get in her face during lag
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit

Granted she's still an excellent character, but most Nu players have no idea how to use her properly, similar to how many Noel users spam drive and get wrecked for it. I tried using Drive -once- standalone and my friend's Tao did a 4000 damage counter hit combo to me.

 

[AvaricePanda]

I can count on one hand the number of times I have seen IDC used in tourney, and it has never been used effectively. Not only that, you can't 'randomly' use it to escape moves. Of course, you don't actually know much about MK, his moves, and how this all works, or otherwise you wouldn't be using it the way you are in your 'argument.'

Avavrice, you should IM me.

I'm just AvaricePanda@aol, if you're serious.

Unless someone is going to respond to Avarice's post I think anti ban should just get +9,000 votes.

Pro-ban, ask me these questions:

Why now is a ban necessary? You've been using the same argument for a year, and the MK "problem" has only gotten better, yet people are still fussing on about how MK will only get worse, and he's dominating tournament results, etc.

Let's look at something.



This has been said since November, and since November, his overall tournament results have declined. While he still is in the lead for best results, they aren't nearly as bad as half a year ago. Look at the two most recent, most competitive, largest Brawl tournaments; Apex and Genesis. A lot of people said, "Let's wait for Apex!" It happened. One out of the top eight was a pure MK main I believe, with two or three others using him as a secondary in some matches. Ally, a Snake main, won Apex. Most people said, "Let's wait for Genesis!" 3 out of the top 8 were pure MK mains, no one else using him. Ally, a Snake, won Genesis.

These results have a decent decline from other large tournaments such as hobo11 and CoT4 in the past, yet people are saying that MK's tournament results will only grow. They've shrunk. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that his tournament placings will get better.



First of all, what exactly is an even match-up? If you're really on-paper-picky, then even match-ups don't exist except for ditto matches (but even then, port priority). But realistically, an even match-up is just a match-up where it's very close, and the more skilled player will generally win. And the top players are pretty close in skill.

To say that MK has no even or close enough to even match-ups is hard, given the evidence. Ally, a Snake main, has gone back and forth with M2K, an MK main, as well as beating other top MKs. Lain, an Ice Climbers main, beat Dojo and M2K, both MK mains, at Apex. ADHD, a Diddy main, has beaten Dojo in an MM at Apex and come very close to beating both M2K and Tyrant in previous sets.

If MK had a clear advantage on every one of his match-ups, why would things like this be happening?

If you want to argue the match-up specifics of why I think that he has even MUs like Snake, ICs. and Diddy, then go ahead and challenge me, because I don't feel like writing out long match-up summaries. I will say this though; Diddy Kong especially has only improved in this match-up since it's been explored, and he has a lot of known technical room to grow, such as single banana locking and working out the kinks of mid-ranged zoning, room to grow in the match-up that MK doesn't have. These match-ups are looking worse for MK as time goes on.



First: Snake and Diddy Kong.

Second: Planking and aircamping have been known for ages, The infamous Plank vs. SK92 match where Plank...well...planked and played very campy was a match from September of last year. It's late July now. Everybody knows about the match, everybody knows about planking and air-camping, INCLUDING MK mains. If they wanted to have planked every match to net a win by now, they'd do it.

But not only do many people choose not to play like that because it's boring and not fun for them (M2K being a good example of this), many don't do it much even if they could because they aren't horribly broken. A good chunk of the cast has a very safe answer to planking, and EVERYONE can get past planking and air-camping by simply approaching. Is it safe? Not always. Do we know the specifics of what each character can do against planking and air-camping? No. So should people stop saying, "LOL IT'S BROKED BAN EET" and actually try to find out how good or bad it is before they say it's bannable? Yes.



People have been saying that since November.

It's late July now.

Hey, guess what, competitive Brawl still exists! And look, all of the signs, such as his match-ups and tournament placings, show that his lead on the cast that he once held is now, in fact, slipping! There's no evidence to suggest that the meta-game will deteriorate, especially since people have been saying that for over half a year and the situations only gotten better!

There is no logical reason to ban MK at this point. While the scare back in November or whatever was understandable, the situation's gotten better, and pro-ban is using the exact same argument. If competitive Brawl would have died, it would have happened by now. There is no evidence to suggest that MK will have some broken new tech, or MK will dominate results in the future. Even if there was, you don't ban things pre-emptively because you theory-craft that they MIGHT be bad. You ban them when they're a problem.

Meta Knight is not a problem, and Meta Knight will not be a problem.

Meta Knight should not be banned.

 

[MarKO X]

I can count on one hand the number of times I have seen IDC used in tourney, and it has never been used effectively. Not only that, you can't 'randomly' use it to escape moves. Of course, you don't actually know much about MK, his moves, and how this all works, or otherwise you wouldn't be using it the way you are in your 'argument.'

Neither would the OP.

but i see that the community wants to wait until some uses and dominates with the banworthy MK, because the theory isn't cutting it. Maybe no one will use the banworthy MK because despite how effective it is, it's boring and unfun and unhonorable and won't win every tournament possible.

understood.

 

[Thirtyfour]

My Falcon has never been more horny.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Tell that to M2K. He did that a few times to Ally at Apex. And anymore characters that can't gimp him well, or do Kirby and MK represent the entire cast?

Those two are really ****ing good at gimping, MK is the best at it. And I didn't say he never gets gimped, I'm saying you're being a fool.

And I try not to lurk, as it isn't all that healthy for you.

Yes, trolling around knowing nothing is much healthier.

 

[Teran]

teran thinks he's so **** smart and badass cuz he's using miles edgeworth sprites in his arguments

lmfao what a god**** nerd

Iknorite?!
I mean... he's on a videogame forum LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL.

I love this community Falcon mah man.

 

[warrenb]

Step 1: Block first two drive hits
Step 2: Get in her face during lag
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit

Granted she's still an excellent character, but most Nu players have no idea how to use her properly, similar to how many Noel users spam drive and get wrecked for it. I tried using Drive -once- standalone and my friend's Tao did a 4000 damage counter hit combo to me.

says a Noel.




you *****.

 

[:mad:]

This is probably one of the better threads on this site.

It's actually entertaining reading this. I love it.

 

[Kamikaze*]

This is probably one of the better threads on this site.

It's actually entertaining reading this. I love it.

Lol, I know. My tab has been in this thread for the past hour and a half.

 

[HowaitoKumaSan]

THIS

nice avatar post combo, also yeah p. much

It work in any thread, I tell ya.

 

[noradseven]

I don't know many MK mains I know quite a few secondary MKs, but MK does take skill to use at a tournment level though this may shock ppl.

Step 1: Block first two drive hits
Step 2: Get in her face during lag
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit

Granted she's still an excellent character, but most Nu players have no idea how to use her properly, similar to how many Noel users spam drive and get wrecked for it. I tried using Drive -once- standalone and my friend's Tao did a 4000 damage counter hit combo to me.

im not talking online jesus..., and what kinda scrubby nu does 2 drive hits jesus they will probably try to set up a high low mixup, instead.

 

[BOB SAGET!]

franziska Von Karma, Yeah, I Know. What You Fail To Realize How Stupid That Makes You Look. It's Not Funny Or Clever, It's Just Nerdy And Pathetic.

Boda Bing!

 

[Bosstoise]

Unlike the anti-pro side, the pro-ban side actually has some variety of their reasoning and details. Anti-ban side had details too, but not as informing. It was basically repeating "MK is not broken." in different contexts. Pro-ban gets my vote, so hopefully there will be more variety in the competitive scene.

By the way, anyone have any ideas of what would happen to all of the 'professional' Meta Knights if this ban occurs?

 

[Falconv1.0]

if I Was Allowed To Tell You Some Of The Things I Have Noticed Back There.......you Would Commit Suicide

Doooo iiiiiiiiiit

 

[*_Echo_*]

im neutral on this.
MK has no counters but counters no one
he is only slightly better than every other char and he has almost no matchups worse than 60-40

 

[Inui]

As long as you aren't using Manfred von Karma then I don't have a problem.
I was born Manfred von Karma on this place, even my custom title says so!

Make me proud Franziska.

I use all of them frequently, including Manfred. I just use Edgeworth the most.

franziska von karma, yeah, i know. what you fail to realize how stupid that makes you look. it's not funny or clever, it's just nerdy and pathetic.

Well, you're lame and boring. That's not my fault.

If I did it to look cool, that would imply that I care about what you people think of me. I don't. I enjoy being the villain. I use the gifs because it makes it fun.

 

[fkacyan]

Neither would the OP.

but i see that the community wants to wait until some uses and dominates with the banworthy MK, because the theory isn't cutting it. Maybe no one will use the banworthy MK because despite how effective it is, it's boring and unfun and unhonorable and won't win every tournament possible.

understood.

Talking about perfection and ideals is worthless in actual practice, much the same way that WoW theorycrafters have to insert an average of 100-200ms ping delays in their spreadsheets to make DPS calculations accurate, or physicists have to account for things like wind, temperature, humidity, etc when launching a projectile.

 

[noradseven]

Unlike the anti-pro side, the pro-ban side actually has some variety of their reasoning and details. Anti-ban side had details too, but not as informing. It was basically repeating "MK is not broken." in different contexts. Pro-ban gets my vote, so hopefully there will be more variety in the competitive scene.

By the way, anyone have any ideas of what would happen to all of the 'professional' Meta Knights if this ban occurs?

They will all change to snake/marth maybe a few others and go right back to winning, duh like what always happens when you ban the best character.

 

[AvaricePanda]

Neither would the OP.

but i see that the community wants to wait until some uses and dominates with the banworthy MK, because the theory isn't cutting it. Maybe no one will use the banworthy MK because despite how effective it is, it's boring and unfun and unhonorable and won't win every tournament possible.

understood.

What is this ban-worthy MK you're talking about? I've mentioned at least five times that your argument is horrible, and that the things you're saying that are ban-worthy of him AREN'T, and you're ignoring my posts.

How About This:
Ban Mk.

If You Are One Of The People Who Likes Fighting Mk Because Its Fun Or You Think He Makes The Game Interesting Or Whatever Your Logic Is How Bout You Do This. Tell Your Opponent "Hey, I Don't Mind You Picking Metaknight Against Me"

What Other Reason Do You Have To Keep Metaknight Than You Using Him? And With That In Mind, That Makes About 50% Of Smashers Mk Mains/secondaries.
Which then goes back to the whole broken/CP thing ...

How about this: Read my posts.

In case you didn't the five other times I've posted it, here it is, AGAIN.

Pro-ban, ask me these questions:

Why now is a ban necessary? You've been using the same argument for a year, and the MK "problem" has only gotten better, yet people are still fussing on about how MK will only get worse, and he's dominating tournament results, etc.

Let's look at something.



This has been said since November, and since November, his overall tournament results have declined. While he still is in the lead for best results, they aren't nearly as bad as half a year ago. Look at the two most recent, most competitive, largest Brawl tournaments; Apex and Genesis. A lot of people said, "Let's wait for Apex!" It happened. One out of the top eight was a pure MK main I believe, with two or three others using him as a secondary in some matches. Ally, a Snake main, won Apex. Most people said, "Let's wait for Genesis!" 3 out of the top 8 were pure MK mains, no one else using him. Ally, a Snake, won Genesis.

These results have a decent decline from other large tournaments such as hobo11 and CoT4 in the past, yet people are saying that MK's tournament results will only grow. They've shrunk. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that his tournament placings will get better.



First of all, what exactly is an even match-up? If you're really on-paper-picky, then even match-ups don't exist except for ditto matches (but even then, port priority). But realistically, an even match-up is just a match-up where it's very close, and the more skilled player will generally win. And the top players are pretty close in skill.

To say that MK has no even or close enough to even match-ups is hard, given the evidence. Ally, a Snake main, has gone back and forth with M2K, an MK main, as well as beating other top MKs. Lain, an Ice Climbers main, beat Dojo and M2K, both MK mains, at Apex. ADHD, a Diddy main, has beaten Dojo in an MM at Apex and come very close to beating both M2K and Tyrant in previous sets.

If MK had a clear advantage on every one of his match-ups, why would things like this be happening?

If you want to argue the match-up specifics of why I think that he has even MUs like Snake, ICs. and Diddy, then go ahead and challenge me, because I don't feel like writing out long match-up summaries. I will say this though; Diddy Kong especially has only improved in this match-up since it's been explored, and he has a lot of known technical room to grow, such as single banana locking and working out the kinks of mid-ranged zoning, room to grow in the match-up that MK doesn't have. These match-ups are looking worse for MK as time goes on.



First: Snake and Diddy Kong.

Second: Planking and aircamping have been known for ages, The infamous Plank vs. SK92 match where Plank...well...planked and played very campy was a match from September of last year. It's late July now. Everybody knows about the match, everybody knows about planking and air-camping, INCLUDING MK mains. If they wanted to have planked every match to net a win by now, they'd do it.

But not only do many people choose not to play like that because it's boring and not fun for them (M2K being a good example of this), many don't do it much even if they could because they aren't horribly broken. A good chunk of the cast has a very safe answer to planking, and EVERYONE can get past planking and air-camping by simply approaching. Is it safe? Not always. Do we know the specifics of what each character can do against planking and air-camping? No. So should people stop saying, "LOL IT'S BROKED BAN EET" and actually try to find out how good or bad it is before they say it's bannable? Yes.



People have been saying that since November.

It's late July now.

Hey, guess what, competitive Brawl still exists! And look, all of the signs, such as his match-ups and tournament placings, show that his lead on the cast that he once held is now, in fact, slipping! There's no evidence to suggest that the meta-game will deteriorate, especially since people have been saying that for over half a year and the situations only gotten better!

There is no logical reason to ban MK at this point. While the scare back in November or whatever was understandable, the situation's gotten better, and pro-ban is using the exact same argument. If competitive Brawl would have died, it would have happened by now. There is no evidence to suggest that MK will have some broken new tech, or MK will dominate results in the future. Even if there was, you don't ban things pre-emptively because you theory-craft that they MIGHT be bad. You ban them when they're a problem.

Meta Knight is not a problem, and Meta Knight will not be a problem.

Meta Knight should not be banned.

If no one responds to this after I've posted it like 10 times and even increased the size (zomg!!) I call BS.

 

[vato_break]

i know boxxy ;]

 

[Kamikaze*]

Unlike the anti-pro side, the pro-ban side actually has some variety of their reasoning and details. Anti-ban side had details too, but not as informing. It was basically repeating "MK is not broken." in different contexts. Pro-ban gets my vote, so hopefully there will be more variety in the competitive scene.

By the way, anyone have any ideas of what would happen to all of the 'professional' Meta Knights if this ban occurs?

Bosstoise
Smash n00b

Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1


You're an alt.

 

[Sosuke]

Debating in this thread is useless.

MK won't get banned either way.




AvaricePanda stop making me scroll more then I have to.

 

[Teran]

I use all of them frequently, including Manfred. I just use Edgeworth the most.

Well, if you're using him for anti ban, I can make an exception.
Hmph.

 

[ANTi_]

"A Foolish Fool hath not dare to mock the great Von Karma"

which smash board user is most likely to say that quote?

 

[SwordsRbroken]

I think that is way too broken. He can go from one side of a stage to another twice in a row without touching ground, and a number of other things.

 

[Gianfranco]

It is beyond me how anyone can think that Smash Brothers, a game in which you can play as Donkey Kong and beat the **** out of Pikachu while all sorts of crazy **** is going on, a serious fighting game.

Don't get me wrong, Smash Brothers is a **** fun game, but people taking it seriously are doing it wrong.