Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.

[Espy Rose]

Can someone explain to me why the SBR has arbitrarily decided on a 2/3 Majority for a winner?

Because all the cool kids in Washington do it?

 

[Hylian]

Can someone explain to me why the SBR has arbitrarily decided on a 2/3 Majority for a winner?

Because we've used a 2/3 majority for everything we have done...ever?

 

[Revanchist]

That's wrong, sorry.

An 5% majority is nothing the community "clearly" wants, it's something the community obviously is split on, otherwise it wouldn't be so close to be exactly 50:50.

No, that's wrong, sorry.

Four times now the majority has voted to ban. I'd say that's pretty clear that more of us want him gone than those that want him in. Sometimes its been a larger majority, sometimes smaller but each poll the majority has called for a ban. And I think that clearly shows what the community wants.

Can someone explain to me why the SBR has arbitrarily decided on a 2/3 Majority for a winner?

Because 2/3 will never happen? Too many in the SBR like MK, they like how much money they can win with him.

But its not arbitrary, as I understand it 2/3 has been traditionally used to ban anything, not just MK.

 

[MarKO X]

lol @ the word majority.
majority clearly means the most of.
So like, if there are 3 apples and I have 2 of them, I have the majority of the apples.

don't get me wrong, 54% of the community wanting the ban and 46% of the community not wanting ban doesn't that one side completely overwhelms the other, but it is a majority.

of course, we could then talk about pie, and how I had 51% of it while you had 49% of it. Even though its a pretty legit spilt and you probably wouldn't miss that 1% of the pie you didn't get, I still had the majority of it.

 

[Melomaniacal]

As if 51% vote should be enough to ****ing ban a character. LOL.

 

[Kamikaze*]

Revan, the community can't get what they want all the time. Just like in real life. People can't get what they want all the time. They community wants combos, but we all know that they don't exist in brawl.

 

[Syde7]

He's the best, most used character.

This is not surprising. With MK gone, most character boards would probably start with Snake. He's the next best, next most used by quite the margin, character.

And, I concede this point, but the thing that I was more or less pointing out is that it illustrates the need to either play as MK, or study the matchup to no end.

While I was not around at the time, I'm certain that you'd be able to find threads like that in the melee days, such as how to beat Falco's laser camping, how to beat getting shine spiked, how to avoid Fox's u-throw->u-air (lolish thread), etc.

To my knowledge, all I remember seeing at that time was mentioning these aspects in terms of matchup study, on a character vs _____ basis. That is to say it was placed in Matchup Discussions in similar fashion to "Watch out for (insert move), and deal with it by...". To my knowledge, there wasn't a "universal" ?wtfdoIdo? thread.



That's expected. Again, he's the best character, and most used character.

But I want you to pull some thread links or something proving that more people worry about it working on MK than their worst match-up, that as soon as it's found, people post, "Does it work on MK?" Before you do that, this is just a baseless statement.

I can recall off the top of my head the Bowser release-pivot grab cg turned into a "does it work on mk?" talk for a bit, with Bowser's worst MU's (according to their discussions) being IC's & Diddy

King DeDeDe and the BuuMan trap

Sheik and that Saltus Combo schtuff with Olimar & ICs being worse MUs (from their boards) than MK

And, that's all I can come up with off the top of my head without looking extensively through *all* of the char forums, dating back for the past year or so.

Again, you've said it and I've said it; when your character doesn't do so well against the most used character in the game, then they're probably not going to be so high on the tier list.

However, with the first paragraph, it somewhat works like that, but it's more of a character not being viable in the first place than MK being the problem. If Diddy's notable bad match-ups (Peach and Luigi) were the most used and second most used characters in the game, then he probably wouldn't be as high as he is now. However, they're both in lower mid-tier ish. Peach has bad match-ups against MK, Marth, Game and Watch, Snake, and maybe slight disadvantage Falco. Luigi has bad match-ups against D3, Game and watch, Marth, and MK. AKA, they both have very problematic match-ups in high tier, meaning you won't see as much of them in tournament, meaning even though they have the advantage on Diddy, Diddy's won't encounter them much because of it.

It's not only MK.

Agreed, but the point is that with no MK a wider selection of characters that would do well against the "new" number one are once more viable, and actually very good choices, at least as a secondary, which would either extend the "cut-off" of viable, or move them up and others down. Im not trying to insinuate that low & low/mid tiers would suddenly be the flavor of the week, but that those on the borderline could receive enough of a boost to be considered viable.

I can argue that people didn't flock to Wario, Diddy, or ICs when people thought that they went even with MK. People may have considered or switched to them, but flock simply because they have a good match-up against MK? Unless you're a character that gets completely wrecked by MK, and even then they'd probably just look at these characters for secondaries for that one match-up.

And that's what I was essentially meaning, as a secondary for that matchup. Which, isn't anything negative in and of itself, it is just the... suddenness and urgency with which people considered this.

He is the best character. These are traits that are inherent of the best character in the game.........over-centralization would imply that he makes many characters unviable, and the only characters that place well in tournaments only place well because they have a good match-up against MK.

Place well in tourneys; See: Snake, Wario, ICs as of late, Diddy, with a dash of Falco ... all of which are chars that supposedly have a good MU against MK (not so sure about the Falco, but I recall M2K saying something about if the Falco plays uber campy its close).

As for the remainder of that section, I can agree to the extent that those focused on "keeping up with MK" do so because he is probably one of their worst MUs, which would fall in line with the perfectly acceptable norm.

First off, the word countered should not be applied to a 55:45 or even a 6:4 match-up

I don't look at MU ratios, as they are arbitrary for the most part. I see anything that puts a char at a significant, exploitable disadvantage that is not offset by that same char creating a significant, exploitable disadvantage a counter.

Secondly, you'd see a large spike in diversity originally, if only because of the amount of MKs that aren't allowed to use MK anymore. 20-25% or however many it is depending on your region can't use MK, and are probably using some other random S-A tier character. There would still be a best option (probably Snake), and while they'd have a bad match-up, they'd still be a best option.

I've no problem with best options, but seeing a "best option" not being the "best option" ALL THE TIME due to lack of bad matchups. (I hate to beat that horse as its been beaten time and time again, hence why I left the whole "no bad matchups" out)

Thirdly, the amount of tournament diversity you'd see, as already mentioned, would mainly come from the MKs not being MK anymore, and probably an increase of mainly Marth and Toon Link. R.O.B. gets hard countered by ZSS, and Peach has troubles with Snake, Marth, and Game and Watch.

From what I gather: Falco gets rid of a lot of the ZSS threat (been ages since I looked at the ZSS boards, but I think they had Falco listed as their worst, not MK). ROB now has a CP char against a ZSS. Snake and ROB are pretty even, ROB and Marth are even, GaW beats ROB pretty hard, who is in turn beat by Snake. The point is, you create a large "paper-rock-scissors" counterpick system far more expanded than it is now with MK, trumping even Melee's system.

Fourthly, character diversity, as you said, is a moot point to use in this entire argument. Banning for character diversity is a bad reason to ban when a character isn't ban-worthy anyway; we don't ban D-F tier just because they get ***** by S-A tier, so the mains can use more viable characters and indirectly create more tournament diversity. That'd be just silly.

Unless the diversity is necessary to the point where MK is the only viable option, banning for diversity is unnecessary and shouldn't be highly considered.

My only point about diversity, is that it enhances the overall game. No one plays char B because MK ***** it hard. So, no one really invests a LOT of time in said char, while there MAY be something floating around that improves them. maybe not to the point of placing at tourneys, but to the point of another char worrying about that char being tucked into someone's back pocket. Again, it creates an elaborate, strategic system of character counter/advantages.


See one of my earlier posts.

A character doesn't have to have a weakness to be beaten. MK hardly has noticeable weaknesses (much like Snake) on paper and frame-wise. However, Diddy has one of the best OoS options against MK, which is his OoS glide toss or jump cancelled throw. If MK hits his shield, at the very least he's able to retreat, but he's also able to punish his F-air, F-tilt, D-tilt if not perfectly spaced, N-air, Tornado, D-air that hits his shield.

This on paper assessment of what MK can do is really unnecessary to your argument.

Please provide exact information.

Genesis was on my mind when I wrote it, and I simply said to look, I never said it was one way or the other. Just a hunch. Give me a list of the major tournaments month by month for the past 6 months and I'll be happy to do so. (I have a hard time keeping up with names of tourneys, so I can't remember what tourney to look for, although I do look at brackets &results & such)

While I understand what you mean by scrutinizing it more when someone who wins in a really disadvantageous match-up, but many of MKs closer match-ups are even or 55:45, meaning the mistakes could go either way.

I agree, and the point was just made as an illustration that neither side should use a handfull of random events as strength for their arguments.



One can improve to even with a character counterpick, and possibly advantageous with a character plus stage counterpick. Snake on Halberd. ICs on FD. Diddy on FD.

During stage striking, the MK strikes FD & maybe SV. They play the first match on a stage providing no additional benefit to Diddy/ICs. MK than choose to either ban FD entirely, or take their chances and then using one of a few CPs available to them. Same with Halberd. Strike BF during the striking procedure, ban halberd, and take your chances on BF if snake CPs the MK there.

Plus, I've said multiple times in this thread (pretty recently too) that the character counterpick system isn't important or used enough in mid-high levels of play for MK to HAVE to have a disadvantageous match-up. I'll quote it if needed.

This is true, I can agree that at really high levels of play the adv/disadv btwn chars may be miniscule that CPing based on char may be rendered useless. But, if the character CP isn't that important, then why evidence it in the above paragraph about "improving to even with a char cp..." (not meaning to call you out, just curious)

Even match-ups.

Because Ness and MK is an even matchup (FOW vs Tryrant {or was it dojo, i always get them confused}) & FOW vs Dojo. I was more or less saying that on any given day, anything can happen. All sorts of external things can come into play, and it is important to analyze that regardless of whether the MK wins/loses, but MORESO if he loses... to see if the non-MK player was onto something in terms of developing a winning strategy that could be applicable in the future, or if it was just... out of the blue.



I agree with a somewhat different reason. A couple of tournament sets can't prove a match-up either way. It can help provide proof, but doesn't prove anything. Ally and M2K are very close skill level wise, and it doesn't surprise me if Ally wins or M2K wins. The same can be said by most top level players. As far as even or close to even match-ups go, it doesn't surprise me if X player beats Y player at one tournament, then Y player beats X player at the next tournament, and so on.

If there's a trend of MKs beating Snakes or Snakes beating MKs, then it could help suggest that a match-up goes either way. But as of now, I don't see a trend going in either way.

I'd have to take a closer look at UltimateRazer/DsF/some other well-known snakes (aside from ally) vs other top mk's to identify this trend one way or the other- not just Ally vs M2k



The comparison made by Smash and other fighters isn't that, "What will GG players think of us if we ban MK!" or, "SFIV has a broken character and they haven't banned them, so why should we?"

The comparison is, "Characters with at worst even match-ups have existed in other fighting games, and their fighting games have had healthy competitive metagames, ergo MK can exist in Brawl without corrupting the metagame."

And it's a fair comparison. Even though Brawl and SFIV are played quite differently, they're both fighting games, and they both have traits inherent to fighters, such as match-ups among characters, tier lists, etc. Making this comparison isn't radical simply because SFIV has a different gameplay style than Brawl.


...this took forever to type.[/quote]

My main point there was to more or less say that the decision should be made with only the smash community in mind, with the rules and pre-sets the smash community has created/developed, to see if MK is bannable within those said rules/protocols; not if it would be what "SF would do".



Again- I do <3 your posts, lots of fun to read and they are very insightful and make me continually re-evaluate and re-affirm my position, and why I take that position. Good stuff.

 

[Melomaniacal]

I guess no one cares that this is one of the least reliable polls... ever?

 

[Supersun]

If it were me, I'd go for 3/4. At the very least. As to a basic explanation, just a mere majority allows for the sort of stupidity you see in a show where people are Dying Like Animals.

iirc didn't the articles of confederation require a 3/4 vote? iirc virtually NOTHING ever got passed.

 

[UberMario]

Revan brought up a good point, though, it is true that they've had the larger percentage (if only by three-to-five) pretty much each time. I still think that the word "majority" is still too strong to for the outcome of the polls, however.

 

[Kamikaze*]

I guess no one cares that this is one of the least reliable polls... ever?

Agreed. There are so many alt accounts that have voted in this poll.

 

[Alus]

I guess no one cares that this is one of the least reliable polls... ever?

...

I don't think we'll get anywhere 'till praxis and infernoomni have a deathmatch to decide who's right.

Voted yes on banning; i don't play brawl, but the pro ban side had cool vids.

I noticed...

Spoiler

joooke.... its a joke

Spoiler

also I have a spoiler in a spoiler omg im so cool sadafadff!

 

[Renegade TX2000]

okay what we know... SBR is biased and that the argument for pro ban is clearly a better "argument", what i'm trying to say is. If mk pays those bills especially half or more of the sbr since alot of them being in that age of "PAY BILLS FTL". They want mk to make this easier for them so it's necessary to keep this bs on and to give some annoying impossible 2/3 vote. Pro ban doesn't stand a chance in hell especially if you got m2k jumping up and down on peoples balls sack bribing some sbr members to vote no. It's also Obvious that m2k sandbags and anything else that will keep mk in the game. Theres a reason m2k lost apex/genesis lol. But some guy like spadefox might find some error in this post and go again...


You know I don't wanna hear **** from the anti ban until they answer "Praxis, Chibos" comment with some decent intelligence if there is any from the anti ban.

lolol "i'm anti ban". "FIND A WAY", theres always a way! LOL I'M "BUM THE BEST DK"! Oni163 (12:03:08 AM): :"just get through it somehow":, lololol just get through it somehow... EPIC FAIL SON EPIC FAIL! all you anti guys say the same **** thing seriously stfu. All that i've read it's been the samething over and over for the past 300 pages. "he's beatable"; lol not the point!!!!!!!!! "mk results are declining"; OBJECTION!!!!!!!!!! is what i have to say. "Theres a way, you'll find it", sry vex you fail.

 

[SnowballBob33]

I think the fact that this is the fourth vote and each time pro ban wins should say something. It's obvious more people want him gone than not. If this wasn't a topic that was important, it wouldn't be reoccurring so often with the same results.

 

[Kamikaze*]

oPro ban doesn't stand a chance in hell especially if you got m2k jumping up and down on peoples balls sack bribing some sbr members to vote no. It's also Obvious that m2k sandbags and anything else that will keep mk in the game.

This guy is a d!ckhead. don't listen to him.

 

[Red Arremer]

lol @ the word majority.
majority clearly means the most of.
So like, if there are 3 apples and I have 2 of them, I have the majority of the apples.

don't get me wrong, 54% of the community wanting the ban and 46% of the community not wanting ban doesn't that one side completely overwhelms the other, but it is a majority.

of course, we could then talk about pie, and how I had 51% of it while you had 49% of it. Even though its a pretty legit spilt and you probably wouldn't miss that 1% of the pie you didn't get, I still had the majority of it.

Yes.
But I critisized the word "clearly", since 54% is not a "clear" indication of people supporting a ban.
54% is only "clearly" one thing: The community is extremely split on the matter, as well.

I think the fact that this is the fourth vote and each time pro ban wins should say something. It's obvious more people want him gone than not. If this wasn't a topic that was important, it wouldn't be reoccurring so often with the same results.

True. 3-5% more people than those that don't want him gone. That's so many.

 

[Melomaniacal]

okay what we know... SBR is biased and that the argument for pro ban is clearly a better "argument", what i'm trying to say is. If mk pays those bills especially half or more of the sbr since alot of them being in that age of "PAY BILLS FTL". They want mk to make this easier for them so it's necessary to keep this bs on and to give some annoying impossible 2/3 vote. Pro ban doesn't stand a chance in hell especially if you got m2k jumping up and down on peoples balls sack bribing some sbr members to vote no. It's also Obvious that m2k sandbags and anything else that will keep mk in the game. Theres a reason m2k lost apex/genesis lol. But some guy like spadefox might find some error in this post and go again...


You know I don't wanna hear **** from the anti ban until they answer "Praxis, Chibos" comment with some decent intelligence if there is any from the anti ban.

lolol "i'm anti ban". "FIND A WAY", theres always a way! LOL I'M "BUM THE BEST DK"! Oni163 (12:03:08 AM): :"just get through it somehow":, lololol just get through it somehow... EPIC FAIL SON EPIC FAIL! all you anti guys say the same **** thing seriously stfu. All that i've read it's been the samething over and over for the past 300 pages. "he's beatable"; lol not the point!!!!!!!!! "mk results are declining"; OBJECTION!!!!!!!!!! is what i have to say. "Theres a way, you'll find it", sry vex you fail.

Trolls are getting lazy.

I think the fact that this is the fourth vote and each time pro ban wins should say something. It's obvious more people want him gone than not. If this wasn't a topic that was important, it wouldn't be reoccurring so often with the same results.

Stop with this bull**** argument, seriously. First off, it's a ****ing character ban. 55% is not nearly enough to ban a character. A character ban should be obvious and unanimous.
And have you even looked at the people voting on this poll? Half of them are either alt accounts, or people who have no association with the smash community other than making an account on smashboards.

Seriously, enough of that argument. It's terrible.

 

[Alus]

okay what we know... SBR is biased and that the argument for pro ban is clearly a better "argument", what i'm trying to say is. If mk pays those bills especially half or more of the sbr since alot of them being in that age of "PAY BILLS FTL". They want mk to make this easier for them so it's necessary to keep this bs on and to give some annoying impossible 2/3 vote. Pro ban doesn't stand a chance in hell especially if you got m2k jumping up and down on peoples balls sack bribing some sbr members to vote no. It's also Obvious that m2k sandbags and anything else that will keep mk in the game. Theres a reason m2k lost apex/genesis lol. But some guy like spadefox might find some error in this post and go again...


You know I don't wanna hear **** from the anti ban until they answer "Praxis, Chibos" comment with some decent intelligence if there is any from the anti ban.

lolol "i'm anti ban". "FIND A WAY", theres always a way! LOL I'M "BUM THE BEST DK"! Oni163 (12:03:08 AM): :"just get through it somehow":, lololol just get through it somehow... EPIC FAIL SON EPIC FAIL! all you anti guys say the same **** thing seriously stfu. All that i've read it's been the samething over and over for the past 300 pages. "he's beatable"; lol not the point!!!!!!!!! "mk results are declining"; OBJECTION!!!!!!!!!! is what i have to say. "Theres a way, you'll find it", sry vex you fail.

He is beatable...but its not the point...

wtf

 

[Renegade TX2000]

He is beatable...but its not the point...

wtf

You tell me... You anti ban guys say it all the time lol, I just say what I read from you guys going against the pro ban etc. so if u call me ******** then I know where it derived from. "anticoughban".

 

[mountain_tiger]

Vertical kill moves say hi. MK's recovery wont make up for his light weight then.

Uair momentum cancelling. Need I say more?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

That post is still trolling people 3 days and 27 pages later.

I think it's time to give myself a pat on the back

 

[Kamikaze*]

Listen you douchebag, all I know is that M2K hates sandbagging. And do you have any ****ing proof that he bribes the SBR to keep MK in the game?

 

[da K.I.D.]

can we have votes to ban other characters? i want to see what the difference would look like between a poll to ban snake and a poll to ban metaknight

 

[Master Knight DH]

You know what I find ironic? People acting like Meta Knight is more broken than freaking Caulder in Advance Wars: Days of Ruin.

Let's compare/contrast the two since people insist on acting that way:
*Number of attributes:
-DoR COs generally have maybe only 1 or 2 attributes. Total.
-SSBB characters have various attributes
*Weaknesses:
-DoR COs besides Caulder have no weaknesses.
-SSBB characters in general have weaknesses, but in general they are priority issues, killing issues, recovery issues, react-to-being-hit issues, or *slight* melee range issues. The closest things to being on-balance weaknesses in that list are priority and melee range issues.
*"God tier" weaknesses
-Caulder actually has a weakness, for all the good it does the other COs who can't exploit it easily at all because it's an OFF-balance weakness
-Meta Knight actually has an on-balance weakness in his lack of projectiles in a game where about 3/4 of the characters has projectiles.
*"God tier" strengths
-Caulder provides ridiculous power and repairs to zone units
-Meta Knight has OTT priority and.....I'm not sure what else that could be glaring, really.

 

[da K.I.D.]

also, its not M2K bribing people to not ban MK

its the SBr not banning MK to bribe M2K to not cry his eyesout/go back to melee/keep going to tourneys

 

[Melomaniacal]

Listen you douchebag, all I know is that M2K hates sandbagging. And do you have any ****ing proof that he bribes the SBR to keep MK in the game?

Ignore him, he's trolling.

 

[Hylian]

Sooo Dojo is amazing.

Discuss.

 

[Red Arremer]

And do you have any ****ing proof that he bribes the SBR to keep MK in the game?

No. No he doesn't.
Every Anti-Ban vote in the SBR has been made by the decision of themselves.
Mew2King doesn't even post that much in the SBR.

The only thing he did was stating that he would probably quit Brawl because he spent a lot of time training Meta Knight - which would be discarded if Meta Knight would be banned. And that he doesn't want him to get banned, of course. That's all.

 

[tocador]

This thread is fun, first it starts with serious discussion for 30-50ish pages, then some trolling takes place for 10-20ish pages, then some random thing is discussed for the next 5-10 pages, an then the serious discussion starts again, with the same thing being said from the first one, but with different people.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Sooo Dojo is amazing.

Discuss.

Hobo 17 had a Snake as #1 and 3 Diddys right below that. If you replace the Diddys from hobo 17 with MKs you have the same top4 as genesis. And according to lolPraxis genesis results support the MK ban. So hobo 17 supports a diddy kong ban, right?

Let's ban Diddy Kong!

 

[Red Arremer]

Hobo 17 had a Snake as #1 and 3 Diddys right below that. If you replace the Diddys from hobo 17 with MKs you have the same top4 as genesis. And according to lolPraxis genesis results support the MK ban. So hobo 17 supports a diddy kong ban, right?

Furthermore, Hobo 17 had one more Diddy in the Top 8 than Genesis had Meta Knights in it.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Hobo 17 had a Snake as #1 and 3 Diddys right below that. If you replace the Diddys from hobo 17 with MKs you have the same top4 as genesis. And according to lolPraxis genesis results support the MK ban. So hobo 17 supports a diddy kong ban, right?

Let's ban Diddy Kong!

we both know that theres way more than that that goes into it but if you want to say that, thats fine. i dont have a problem with not fighting diddy

 

[UberMario]

Let's ban Diddy Kong!

Pikachu's more ban-worthy than Meta, look at these two videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6Ze71AhoLo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP0JwYgGuTA << This one almost makes me want to main him

and not to anger anyone, but did anyone find this picture funny?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8szwe9nq5XI&feature=related#t=0m56s

It makes me want to make a chart like that but for the opposer. LOL

 

[Falconv1.0]

I'm lol'ing so hard right now.

But no, seriously, only MK's beat other MK's, except for Ally, because he's God and thus doesn't count herp derp. >_<

 

[Deleted member]

Because we've used a 2/3 majority for everything we have done...ever?

Umm, so? Does that matter? No. I disagree with the method. Regardless if you've used it in the past. It's still arbitrary, and you're begging the question.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Furthermore, Hobo 17 had one more Diddy in the Top 8 than Genesis had Meta Knights in it.

None of Diddy's counter characters were present and MK doesn't have any. Stop saying the same bull**** over and over again, you're wrong.

 

[Renegade TX2000]

Ignore him, he's trolling.

how the hell am I trolling? meh Define; troll because I have not the slightest clue on how your using it to define me as "TROLLING"

 

[MarKO X]

how the hell am I trolling? meh Define; troll because I have not the slightest clue on how your using it to define me as "TROLLING"

just keep saying the stupid baseless **** you've been saying.

 

[SnowballBob33]

okay what we know... SBR is biased and that the argument for pro ban is clearly a better "argument", what i'm trying to say is. If mk pays those bills especially half or more of the sbr since alot of them being in that age of "PAY BILLS FTL". They want mk to make this easier for them so it's necessary to keep this bs on and to give some annoying impossible 2/3 vote. Pro ban doesn't stand a chance in hell especially if you got m2k jumping up and down on peoples balls sack bribing some sbr members to vote no. It's also Obvious that m2k sandbags and anything else that will keep mk in the game. Theres a reason m2k lost apex/genesis lol. But some guy like spadefox might find some error in this post and go again...

hahaha, this is soooo good

Trolls are getting lazy.

Stop with this bull**** argument, seriously. First off, it's a ****ing character ban. 55% is not nearly enough to ban a character. A character ban should be obvious and unanimous.
And have you even looked at the people voting on this poll? Half of them are either alt accounts, or people who have no association with the smash community other than making an account on smashboards.

Seriously, enough of that argument. It's terrible.

Really unanimous? So 1 person thinking MK is beatable is still too many?

In a game where 75% of the people have used Mk to win a set(that possibly shouldn't have been won), it's amazing pro-ban even has the lead. Ren is right, MK is like their income. Why would you vote to ban a character that pays your bills?

 

[Red Arremer]

Umm, so? Does that matter? No. I disagree with the method. Regardless if you've used it in the past. It's still arbitrary, and you're begging the question.

But you are aware of the fact that almost half of the community is not a neglectable minority, right?

None of Diddy's counter characters were present and MK doesn't have any. Stop saying the same bull**** over and over again, you're wrong.

Just like you're wrong on the fact that Ledgestalling has been banned because of Meta Knight alone.
I don't give a ****, lol. You're just being obnoxious with your clenching onto that ban, you're almost like creationists in that matter.

All stuff regarding a "Diddy ban" is a joke. We're just using the same line of arguments Pro-Ban does. Or rather, poking fun at it. Just because it's not funny to you because you're a Meta Knight creatonist it doesn't mean we don't have our fun doing so.

In a game where 75% of the people have used Mk to win a set(that possibly shouldn't have been won), it's amazing pro-ban even has the lead. Ren is right, MK is like their income. Why would you vote to ban a character that pays your bills?

?

Only 22% of tournament placings are Meta Knight's. 22% =/= 75%. Stop making **** up.