Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.

[Palpi]

Shield stab is the new term?..

 

[Tyr_03]

I CP Brinstar against Metaknights a lot with Lucas since it's such a **** stage for him.

Low Ceiling and destructible terrain helps Lucas far more than Metaknight. The only danger is very close blastzones allow him to edgeguard kill very early. But yes, you can do that to him as well.

It's not so much a bad stage for Metaknight as a better stage for some other characters.

 

[Divinokage]

Shield stab is the new term?..

Not so much I guess.. I'm not sure if I invented it.. but the people call it the Kage Special. lol. When you see me do a downair on a full shield and it goes through his shield "Hitting the feet" then ya that's shield stabbing. (In Melee at least) I do it in Brawl too, lol. And it's not just downair, other moves I've managed to shield stab like backair or fair.. if you hit the tip of the head it can hit.

Ya that's what I'm saying there are plenty of characters viable meaning have the advantage against MK on Brinstar.

 

[Palpi]

It's a good stage for lucas guys, look out, there's a ban when you play lucas!

 

[Pierce7d]

That stage also has moderately low ceiling. I definitely know that Snake can take advantage of that stage way more than MK.. since the lava will actually help Snake to recover most of the times and **** his hitboxes goes so far with the Tilts when you hit the "Stuff" You won't even see it coming, and be like WTF?? Like imagine a super lagged up tilt from Snake. lol. I think Ike and Ganon does amazing on that stage too.. uhh.. I wish I had more experience to talk about this better lol. I know Wario does amazing too, maybe D3.. I know marth sucks on it.. diddy too.. uhh.. what about maybe Rob too?

I personally find Marth to be AMAZING on Brinstar once you fully understand the stage, and periodically counterpick to here. I find camping against Snake with many characters is significantly easier on this stage, especially since he's FORCED to jump here. Camping here is amazing. Diddy is pretty bad here though, and I haven't ever seen major success for D3.

Also, don't forget the stage gets way more dynamic once you break the floor apart. This is something that helps MK because he can fly and use Special moves to escape, and safely break the floor and attack you from beneath the stage, while severely limiting your options.

Cyanide, that's fair, but it's barely helpful except as a gimmick due to the fact that it's the ONE move MK has with massive start up time. Marth's tipper fsmash on it is far more broken (as Inui found out LOLOLOLOLOLOL) as well as many other moves characters can abuse. MK's fsmash was already a wall. Still, it is a valid bonus, just not nearly significant enough to change any MUs.

EDIT: Yeah, the rain is lovely

 

[fkacyan]

That stage also has moderately low ceiling. I definitely know that Snake can take advantage of that stage way more than MK.. since the lava will actually help Snake to recover most of the times and **** his hitboxes goes so far with the Tilts when you hit the "Stuff" You won't even see it coming, and be like WTF?? Like imagine a super lagged up tilt from Snake. lol. I think Ike and Ganon does amazing on that stage too.. uhh.. I wish I had more experience to talk about this better lol. I know Wario does amazing too, maybe D3.. I know marth sucks on it.. diddy too.. uhh.. what about maybe Rob too?

Just downair that **** then, don't be an idiot.

You realize that people form habits around how long hitboxes last, correct? If you think you can punish based on the timing, but the hitbox is delayed / still there, it can throw you off. For example, dsmash so that the first hit hits something and then the back hit is delayed and hits the guy who's dashing in to hit you.

Pierce, I think you're really underestimating human error here.

 

[iRJi]

That stage also has moderately low ceiling. I definitely know that Snake can take advantage of that stage way more than MK.. since the lava will actually help Snake to recover most of the times and **** his hitboxes goes so far with the Tilts when you hit the "Stuff" You won't even see it coming, and be like WTF?? Like imagine a super lagged up tilt from Snake. lol. I think Ike and Ganon does amazing on that stage too.. uhh.. I wish I had more experience to talk about this better lol. I know Wario does amazing too, maybe D3.. I know marth sucks on it.. diddy too.. uhh.. what about maybe Rob too?



Just downair that **** then, don't be an idiot.

Just to quickly state this: to say that you won't see something coming, regarding to this information, is the lack of experience that you had had with it.

 

[Melomaniacal]

It's a good stage for lucas guys, look out, there's a ban when you play lucas!

I guarantee that by the next time I play Lucas, I will have forgotten about this.

 

[Pierce7d]

You realize that people form habits around how long hitboxes last, correct? If you think you can punish based on the timing, but the hitbox is delayed / still there, it can throw you off. For example, dsmash so that the first hit hits something and then the back hit is delayed and hits the guy who's dashing in to hit you.

Pierce, I think you're really underestimating human error here.

The first time, and maybe the second time, it's useful, but MK's ability to abuse terrain here is largely dwarfed by other characters.

 

[Inui]

olimar swings at snake and then away, the hitbox is out on frame 15. candy claims that perfect tech chasing an olimar is totally feasible, I don't really see it on him, but now that I've really looked at it in training, I really think DDD is pretty ****ed by this when snake's start reacting to him instead of even trying to predict, it's totally unnecessary.

It's possible and not really that hard. I agree with Candy.

Atomsk once quit a match of my Snake against his Olimar immediately after I d-threw him because I wasn't messing anything up that day, haha.

 

[Divinokage]

I personally find Marth to be AMAZING on Brinstar once you fully understand the stage, and periodically counterpick to here. I find camping against Snake with many characters is significantly easier on this stage, especially since he's FORCED to jump here. Camping here is amazing. Diddy is pretty bad here though, and I haven't ever seen major success for D3.

Also, don't forget the stage gets way more dynamic once you break the floor apart. This is something that helps MK because he can fly and use Special moves to escape, and safely break the floor and attack you from beneath the stage, while severely limiting your options.

Cyanide, that's fair, but it's barely helpful except as a gimmick due to the fact that it's the ONE move MK has with massive start up time. Marth's tipper fsmash on it is far more broken (as Inui found out LOLOLOLOLOLOL) as well as many other moves characters can abuse. MK's fsmash was already a wall. Still, it is a valid bonus, just not nearly significant enough to change any MUs.

EDIT: Yeah, the rain is lovely

True but if he wants to break the things apart.. then all you need to do is stay where you are and let MK approach.. if you chase him then obviously you are going to get *****.

 

[Clai]

Shield stab is the new term?..

If you want to go with traditional terms, it's really a shield poke, since you're trying to poke through his guard by hitting the vulneralbe parts (as in where the body is and the bubble isn't). Sheild stab, shield poke, it's really just semantics here.

Clai the vid is awesome.

Thank you. I've been improving my game since that video, so you would have known my skill only if you saw me play at Gametable. All I can say is that I look forward to fighting Metaknights with Ganon. Maybe I can ask a high-level MK main to play a few rounds the next tournament I go to. Hopefully that will be soon.

So yeah, Rainbow Cruise is a fine stage for Ganondorf. In fact, the only 'counter' counterpick stage I wouldn't recommend for Ganon is Castle Seige. Otherwise, its the neutral you have to worry about more (Yoshi's Island... ugh).

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I stand by what I said.

A "win" for pro-ban side is 2/3. Anything below it is a loss since MK won't be banned in those conditions.

*twitch*

This makes me angry. The chances are absolutely pathetic of that large of a majority.

 

[Melomaniacal]

If you want to go with traditional terms, it's really a shield poke, since you're trying to poke through his guard by hitting the vulneralbe parts (as in where the body is and the bubble isn't). Sheild stab, shield poke, it's really just semantics here.

Shield poke is a better term.
/debate

 

[Palpi]

I guarantee that by the next time I play Lucas, I will have forgotten about this.

I will play as marth and probably still win regardless, unless it is that one amazing lucas, then I will still be humiliated and lose

 

[fkacyan]

The first time, and maybe the second time, it's useful, but MK's ability to abuse terrain here is largely dwarfed by other characters.

I really don't agree on "most characters", but this is a debate for another thread.

 

[SuSa]

People citing Ally vs CO as to why D3 has the advantage. I really don't think Ally was camping enough (EG: The entire ****ing match) because Ally... doesn't really like to camp that much..he just goes in and *****. I also sincerely believe that it is completely stage dependent. I believe it is even on some, 55-45 D3/Snake on others, and 60-40 D3 (not Snake) on others still.

Also Snake may be able to theoretically 0-death quite a few characters based off of reaction if their getup attacks really are THAT slow... not just the 11 we already have.

(TL, Link, Fox, Falco, Wolf, Wario, Dedede, Sheik, Ivysaur, G&W, Sonic)

 

[Pierce7d]

Actually, it's always been shield stabbing. Shield poking was just another term added way back in Melee days, when Marth would hit you because he poked through your shield with dtilt. Since then, both shield stabbing and shield poking have been floating around, although they both mean hitting your opponent's exposed hurtbox while they were shielding.


Also, Cyanide, why did you put the phrase "most characters" in quotes when I had not used that phrase?

 

[Palpi]

SuSa, didn't Chops beat co because he just camped the **** out of smashville platform?

 

[Divinokage]

Just to quickly state this: to say that you won't see something coming, regarding to this information, is the lack of experience that you had had with it.

Maybe but I am talking about character advantage on MK on Brinstar as if both players were equally skilled.

 

[jmanxiv]

I am a noob so I just found out about the backroom. Since the outcome of this poll is not gonna be determine by a poll I guess the outcome would be up to the GODS in the backroom. SO I was wondering if theirs a majority of pro-mks in the backroom, cause if there is a majority then this poll and discussion would have absolutely no meaning besides entertainment.

 

[Palpi]

The last 3 votes have been over ~60% anti-ban in SBR.

 

[Inui]

Anti-ban has a healthy lead in the backroom, yes. MK is likely to remain.

 

[SuSa]

SuSa, didn't Chops beat co because he just camped the **** out of smashville platform?

Didn't I beat a D3 because I camped the **** out of a Smashville platform? Then didn't I beat him again because I camped the **** out of a Delfino platform?

Yah.. you need to camp the **** out of a platform... something I don't think I've ever seen Ally do.

 

[Xzax Kasrani]

MK doesn't **** the whole cast or come close to it. He is gay but very beatable and he looses to Snake. If you debate it call me at 267-566-3703 or AIM:xzax1337

 

[Red Arremer]

I am a noob so I just found out about the backroom. Since the outcome of this poll is not gonna be determine by a poll I guess the outcome would be up to the GODS in the backroom. SO I was wondering if theirs a majority of pro-mks in the backroom, cause if there is a majority then this poll and discussion would have absolutely no meaning besides entertainment.

Theoretically speaking, the public poll could have up to 21 votes for one side.

 

[Palpi]

Anti-ban has a healthy lead in the backroom, yes. MK is likely to remain.

I concur.

Was that your first post since you were oppressed by "the man?"

 

[DarkRenji]

Hi, I am DarkRenji.

 

[jmanxiv]

Anti-ban has a healthy lead in the backroom, yes. MK is likely to remain.

So this post is just to make the community feel like they are doing something.
I understand that leaving important decisions up to a bunch of people is not the best

 

[MarKO X]

MK doesn't **** the whole cast or come close to it. He is gay but very beatable and he looses to Snake. If you debate it call me at 267-231-1484 or AIM:xzax1337

if u receive a prank call, it's not me. :D

 

[Divinokage]

I really don't agree on "most characters", but this is a debate for another thread.

Is it? I am using Brinstar to tell people that MK is beatable in a set. =P

It's exactly like Fox on Brinstar, sure he can use the stage well but against Ganon.. it's like one hit into the lava and you'll get comboed hard lol.

 

[Palpi]

MK doesn't **** the whole cast or come close to it. He is gay but very beatable and he looses to Snake. If you debate it call me at 267-231-1484 or AIM:xzax1337

The man is right here ------^

Xzax, I called to congradulate you, but it was wrong number or not you who answered. I also don't know your real name so... haha xD

 

[Master Raven]

Afro did not beat Ally in a ditto MM.

He did beat Candy and Razer in ditto MMs though.

Btw regarding Marth and Brinstar, Pierce said he's been loving the stage recently. Our top Marth in FL, Chaz, LOVES to CP Brinstar. You pretty much have to ban this stage against him any time you play him in a set. Perhaps more Marths should consider trying out that stage for a CP.

 

[Red Arremer]

I understand that leaving important decisions up to a bunch of people is not the best

You said you're a noob, right?

The SBR consists of only top-placing players, big tournament hosts, extremely knowledge able player or any combination of the aformentioned.

So, we want to include the public into an important decision and at least a big chunk of it (I suspect the half, at the VERY least) votes only for the lulz or being absolutely uneducated before voting.

What do you think should have more say? The top players and tournament hosts or a bunch of idiots voting for the lulz?
Also, again, theoretically speaking, the public poll could make up to 21 votings for one side in the SBR vote.

 

[Divinokage]

Afro did not beat Ally in a ditto MM.

He did beat Candy and Razer in ditto MMs though.

Ya well generally dittos don't mean anything just means the better Snake at Snake dittos won. Just for the pride I guess??

 

[Anth0ny]

Anti-ban has a healthy lead in the backroom, yes. MK is likely to remain.

He's baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack

Did MI vote yet? I'm curious what they think of the whole thing.

Spoiler

Give us the goods!

 

[MarKO X]

You said you're a noob, right?

The SBR consists of only top-placing players, big tournament hosts, extremely knowledge able player or any combination of the aformentioned.

So, we want to include the public into an important decision and at least a big chunk of it (I suspect the half, at the VERY least) votes only for the lulz or being absolutely uneducated before voting.

What do you think should have more say? The top players and tournament hosts or a bunch of idiots voting for the lulz?

Well, since Brawl was obviously made with lulz involved......

 

[Red Arremer]

Well, since Brawl was obviously made with lulz involved......

Meh.

I'm actually considering getting a PS3 as of now so I can import BlazBlue since the 360 version is region-locked and the ****ing *****es probably won't release it in Europe.
Also, I could start Third strike again and pick up SFIV.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

He's baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack

Did MI vote yet? I'm curious what they think of the whole thing.

Spoiler

Give us the goods!

I really don't know. I voted, but people over here may have mixed results. Strong people like Anther would probably say no. MK doesn't seem like a big issue so MI might be anti-ban. I know a few people that live around here, I'll see what they think.

 

[Xzax Kasrani]

The man is right here ------^

Xzax, I called to congradulate you, but it was wrong number or not you who answered. I also don't know your real name so... haha xD

Yo I edited it, call