Final Zelda Discussion - What's In, what's out?

[Wrath`]

sign me up for the i hat sheik club or whatever.
My one friend actualy is is good with zelda,yes zelda. He despises sheik
he/she/it/potato

 

[petre]

hey ethan. ill wager $100 zelda returns. no joke.

you in?

then stop asking if zelda's gonna be in the freaking game!!!!!!!!!!!

lol @ diddy kong's sig...'im dutch'!

 

[dynamic_entry]

Sheik represents the whole problem of imbalance in Melee, for several reasons.

-She's not just overpowered like Marth, who's more like: "Hey, if you manage to always hit with the tip, he's ridiculously good!" Sheik is just so obviously overpowered you have to ask yourself whether the developers were drunk while tweaking the game.
-I've heard of people who had to stop using their beloved lower tier characters because people without skill could easily utilize the pre-programmed combos Sheik has.
-Zelda/Sheik is the very personification of imbalance.

*copies his rant from another ( locked ) thread*

"
Zelda was supposed to be strong and defensive, Sheik weak and fast.

Zelda has two usable attacks. Two broken moves, her fair and bair. The rest is useless. Useless. Useless. Useless. The meteor is a poke, the smashes aren't actually strong and can easily be escaped from, and what makes me even madder, her recovery SUCKS. It SUCKS. It goes a long distance yay whoopeedoofrikkingwhoo. It takes, like, a minute to start up, during which you are still vulnerable, it goes into a very limited amount of directions only, after popping up in midair, Zelda is still facing the direction she faced before if you went upwards, she will NOT move horizontally anymore because she doesn't FEEL LIKE IT OR SOMETHING, and then she lands and takes the time to adjust her dress or whatever.

Sheik has a moveset solely consisting of instant combos and powerful killers with GIANT FRIKKIN HITBOXES and priority all over the place. Yes, a little slap is more powerful than a sword. IT MAKES SENSE."


The fact that Sheik's unimportant just makes it more of a slap in the face.

you forgot to say, "needles is also teh uber pwnage!" or somthing like that...

 

[Fawriel]

Is they?

Do I sense mocking in your voice?

 

[Katy Parry]

srry petre

 

[JoeLewko]

Zelda WILL return, now stop asking everyone it's getting annoying as hell.. -_-

Why must Zelda return? Just because they put Link in? Not to be mean or anything, but Zelda's one of those characters where if she's in or out, i don't care either way, but i don't think it's a sure thing she will return. There's a pretty good chance, but it's not definite. I mean, they put Wario in (which i'm not too happy about i feel like he's not going to be a serious character, and possibly just a waste, juding from last year's E3 trailer at least), so they can do anything at this point.

 

[Fawriel]

...Joe.... did anyone ever tell you you're prone to non-sequiturs?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Why must Zelda return? Just because they put Link in? Not to be mean or anything, but Zelda's one of those characters where if she's in or out, i don't care either way, but i don't think it's a sure thing she will return. There's a pretty good chance, but it's not definite. I mean, they put Wario in (which i'm not too happy about i feel like he's not going to be a serious character, and possibly just a waste, juding from last year's E3 trailer at least), so they can do anything at this point.

Yes they put Wario in Smash, so? He is just an obvious character that SHOULD be there much like MetaKnight, Diddy Kong, Pit and King DeDeDe. And so what if Wario's not gonna be a serious character? Not all characters have to be serious, this is still a Nintendo game. Besides, Peach isn't an all that serious character either...

And Zelda will return, I see no point in removing her. The franchise she comes from is even called after her for god's sake. >_>; Besides, her role in the Zelda games have only became bigger after OoT and Melee and she didn't even needed Sheik for it...

 

[Zephrania]

I think we should stuff Ralph in there.

He IS the only rival Link has ever had. And no, being rival and being enemy ain't the same >__>

 

[Deleted member]

I think we should stuff Ralph in there.

He IS the only rival Link has ever had. And no, being rival and being enemy ain't the same >__>

That's what I said. I dunno, maybe its because he isn't a 'mainstream' character.

 

[Wiseguy]

I think we should stuff Ralph in there.

He IS the only rival Link has ever had. And no, being rival and being enemy ain't the same >__>

"You bent my wookie, Link. Now face my wrath!"

 

[Fawriel]

Hehe.
Well, yeah. Ralph just can't really compare in popularity to the likes of WW Link, Midna and Skull Kid and such. His chances are extremely slim.
I did read the thread on him, and I found it very well-made and convincing, but unless every Zelda fan in the world reads it, his chances simply aren't good... and given the assumed shortage of character spots, I'd still rather see WW Link, Midna or Tetra than him. ( Partially because I never really played Ages. )

 

[dynamic_entry]

Why must Zelda return? Just because they put Link in? Not to be mean or anything, but Zelda's one of those characters where if she's in or out, i don't care either way, but i don't think it's a sure thing she will return. There's a pretty good chance, but it's not definite. I mean, they put Wario in (which i'm not too happy about i feel like he's not going to be a serious character, and possibly just a waste, juding from last year's E3 trailer at least), so they can do anything at this point.

Zelda will be in.

Koopa Trooper Poopa Scoopa.

 

[Creo]

I do not no what this sensless argument is about. Now, do not get me wrong, I want this to stay but we all know Zelda is gonna return for Brawl. It is basically inevidable(spelling?)so I don't get the point of it.
Instead of WW Link, does anyone think he will take Minish Caps version with Ezlo as the hat.

 

[the grim lizard]

I have to say...this is one of the craziest threads yet. Not because of the topic but because of everyone just spewing off about different things...It's so disorganized...

But, let me just say this: I am sick and tired of everyone getting down on the Zelda series. It's one of the most awesome series ever. Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess will forever be considered two of the best games of all time. If there are more than 25 characters in Brawl (which there will be) the entire Triforce should be in (Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf). Anyone who says otherwise simply isn't thinking clearly. (And btw, whoever said they don't care of Zelda is in...I bet you'd think differently if she was top tier...some people operate that way)

LoZ had five characters in Melee; it should have five in Brawl. Simple as that.

So, with the triforce in...who are the other two? It's a tossup, but I personally would like to see some characters who have SOME signifance to the series, not simply making an appearance.

And to correct the very wrong people who say Skull Kid isn't important: He isn't a generic character; he is a specific person among the children of the Lost Woods (or whatever they're called). He was the kid you sold the Skull Mask to in OoT; he was the main villain in MM; and he made an appearance or two in TP (protector of the Lost Woods/Master Sword).

That's all I have to say for now.

 

[Katy Parry]

thank you jesus

 

[Kunitsuna]

My only beef with Wind Waker Link is that his toon-shaded-ness would clash horribly with SSBB´s realistic style. I´d prefer him to not be toon-shaded if he does make it in, but rather like a chibi version of Link.

Still, my personal Legend of Zelda lineup would be like this:

01. Link (TP look, techniques and items)
02. Zelda (TP look, sword and spells)
03. Ganondorf (TP look, sword and techniques/spells)
04. Wind Waker Link (Non-toon shaded, WW/FS/MC/PH items and techniques)

I actually think that four is enough. But if another had to be included, it could be either Tingle as a joke character, Young Link (with an original moveset) to represent the oldest Legend of Zelda games, Vaati as a secondary villian, or Midna for even more TP representation.

 

[DarkKnight077]

The Legend of Zelda will have either four or five characters. It's not like a total like known..but this maybe I will think will get in.
1.Link: Dur
2.Zelda: TP, dur..
3.Ganondorf: Dur..again. I want Wind Waker Gannondorf more than TP Gannondorf. TP Gannondorf was lame.
4.Vatti: Second Zelda Villain, in like two major games. Four Swords for the Link to the Past and GCN (I think). Plus as well in Minish Cap.
*5. Zant: As much I would love Zant to be in..he won't because well he didn't really partially play as a large role.
*5. Imp Minda: Not Real form, Real Form was only shown for like 2 min..Yea right make her into a character.
*5. Y. Link with Wind Waker weapons/abilities: I think it would be best to use Y. Link and just make him do what Wind Waker Link does. It's much easier.

(The *5 are the maybes but you can debate if they are in or not).

 

[dynamic_entry]

My only beef with Wind Waker Link is that his toon-shaded-ness would clash horribly with SSBB´s realistic style. I´d prefer him to not be toon-shaded if he does make it in, but rather like a chibi version of Link.

Still, my personal Legend of Zelda lineup would be like this:

01. Link (TP look, techniques and items)
02. Zelda (TP look, sword and spells)
03. Ganondorf (TP look, sword and techniques/spells)
04. Wind Waker Link (Non-toon shaded, WW/FS/MC/PH items and techniques)

I actually think that four is enough. But if another had to be included, it could be either Tingle as a joke character, Young Link (with an original moveset) to represent the oldest Legend of Zelda games, Vaati as a secondary villian, or Midna for even more TP representation.

WW link....but not cel shaded? smash bros is realistic?

TP will have more than enough rep through link, zelda and ganondorf who, i'm almost positive, will all appear and will all be in their TP incarnations. as for your other comments....i dont even know.....

@ DarkKnight077:

i think WW link has more chance of getting in than vaati does. and yes, vaati has been in 3 games, and hopefully will make a return as the villian of Phantom Hourglass. his best chance of getting in is as a promo for that game (a la roy in melee) methinks. none of his other games (while undeniably good IMO) have had enough love from the wider gaming community.

 

[Fawriel]

My only beef with Wind Waker Link is that his toon-shaded-ness would clash horribly with SSBB´s realistic style.

I AM THE KING OF THE WORLD!

 

[Wiseguy]

I AM THE KING OF THE WORLD!

Well done Fawriel. I think we've put that myth to bed once and for all.

 

[GenG]

Dissing WW Link because it's cartoony is a ******** argument. Half of this game is half serious half cartoony already.

WW Link would fit surprisingly well the "job" of quirky swordman that Young Link pioneered in Melee. This have been discussed in a lot of threads (like the Wind Waker Link's moves thread)

In addition to that, Sakurai seems to be representing recent iterations of the several franchises , and Wind Waker was one of the most important titles for Nintendo in the last 5 years. This Link is the first one that have been used... 5 times! And Aonuma said that he wanted to keep making games with WW Link in. There are a Zero Suit Samus already. Wind Waker Link would result in a very interesting character as he can use weapons and tools that the TP couldn't because its quirkyness.

 

[DainBramaged]

-Link, Zelda and Ganondorf in all their TP beauty....( I cannot wait to see Ganondorf kicking A$$ with his TP design)

-Skull Kid, Zant & Vatti are good....No way more than one of them though (too many villains from one series).....Skull Kid (with Majora's mask) is my fave.....but Twilight Princess > Majora's mask, Four Swords & Minish cap

-Agahnim, Midna, Young Link ( or WW link).....meh, I duno

- Sheik....Keep her as Zelda's down B

-Dark Link should be an alternate costume ( along with TP's zora & Magic armor.....maby even wearing the Minish Cap)

 

[the grim lizard]

WW link....but not cel shaded? smash bros is realistic?

TP will have more than enough rep through link, zelda and ganondorf who, i'm almost positive, will all appear and will all be in their TP incarnations. as for your other comments....i dont even know.....

First of all, how'd he get the name "Wind Waker Link" anyway?? (That's a rhetorical question. Yes, I'm familiar with WW. Yes, I've played it.) He definitely needs a better name. (And that name is NOT Cell-shaded or Celda Link)

"TP" characters are simply the classic Zelda characters, which are really the heart and soul of the franchise. I really don't care about how the characters are colored in. I care about the characters themselves and their movesets. I guess I don't have much of a point here, just that we shouldn't really differentiate between reps from games within a series.

i think WW link has more chance of getting in than vaati does. and yes, vaati has been in 3 games, and hopefully will make a return as the villian of Phantom Hourglass. his best chance of getting in is as a promo for that game (a la roy in melee) methinks. none of his other games (while undeniably good IMO) have had enough love from the wider gaming community.

Four Swords and Four Swords Adventure hardly count as two separate games. But I agree. We already have our villain of the series in the game (Dorf), and a second one isn't likely, especially not preceding a modded Young Link (that's a better reference for "WW Link").

And now that I've made that association, he really does deserve his own spot in Brawl: He was the star of the series before he got "older" (this is why they included him in Melee). In fact, correct me if I'm wrong, but adult Link had only been in OoT up until the original Smash...(but, people just liked him better)

Dissing WW Link because it's cartoony is a ******** argument. Half of this game is half serious half cartoony already.

WW Link would fit surprisingly well the "job" of quirky swordman that Young Link pioneered in Melee. This have been discussed in a lot of threads (like the Wind Waker Link's moves thread)

In addition to that, Sakurai seems to be representing recent iterations of the several franchises , and Wind Waker was one of the most important titles for Nintendo in the last 5 years. This Link is the first one that have been used... 5 times! And Aonuma said that he wanted to keep making games with WW Link in. There are a Zero Suit Samus already. Wind Waker Link would result in a very interesting character as he can use weapons and tools that the TP couldn't because its quirkyness.

If WW Link/revamped Y. Link is the only way to get in 5 LoZ characters, then I'm on-board.

Personally, though, I'd really like to see Skull Kid or someone in as well, someone who has had some significance to the series. I really haven't played any of the GBA Zelda games, I'm sorry to say. I pretty much stick to the console LoZ games. But, I suppose if this is the new wave of Zelda, so be it. If you accumulate all of the Zelda games up to OoT and MM you have LoZ, AoL, LttP, and LA (OoA/OoS came after MM). Really of all those, you just have the triforce. They should and will be in. I guess I'm OK with the last two spots being filled with the new wave of Zelda characters...(Sorry, just thinking out loud here.)

EDIT: I realize now that I may have contradicted myself somewhere in there, but that is just because I was going through a thinking process as I responded. Take it as you will.

EDIT2: 1)ToP: Ganondorf, 2)ToW: Zelda, 3)ToC: Link, 4)don't care, 5)don't care

 

[Fawriel]

...funny, I was going to argue with you at the start of the post, but you seem to have done that already. You are thus a thinking individual and deserve my respect. Also, it means that Decartes thinks you exist. Yay!

So, yeah, he can hardly be called Wind Waker Link in Brawl. I guess he'll just remain Young Link... worked well enough in Melee. Or maybe Hero of the Wind.
On the other hand, Wind Waker Link actually does work if "Wind Waker" doesn't refer to the game but is seen as a sort of title, rather. Link, the Wind Waker. Could work depending on how you stress each word.

 

[the grim lizard]

...funny, I was going to argue with you at the start of the post, but you seem to have done that already. You are thus a thinking individual and deserve my respect. Also, it means that Decartes thinks you exist. Yay!

So, yeah, he can hardly be called Wind Waker Link in Brawl. I guess he'll just remain Young Link... worked well enough in Melee. Or maybe Hero of the Wind.
On the other hand, Wind Waker Link actually does work if "Wind Waker" doesn't refer to the game but is seen as a sort of title, rather. Link, the Wind Waker. Could work depending on how you stress each word.

Better yet...when you unlock him, you have to enter a name for him, just like in the Zelda games!

"You have unlocked the Legendary Hero and controller of the Winds L@LPWNED"...

 

[Deleted member]

Is it just me, or does the Yoshi's Island stage with the changing seasons remind you of Oracle of Seasons?

Hollodrum; a possible stage?

I think an Oracle of Ages stage, with the background ageing over time and crumbling away over time and the scenery changing from past to present would be cool too.

Say what you want, those games DO have some of the best stage opportunities from the series.

(Yes, I know, I’m obsessed with those games).

 

[Stryks]

I AM THE KING OF THE WORLD!

PWN
Fawriel heres a cookie

 

[Chief Mendez]

Hollodrum; a possible stage?

Good.

I think an Oracle of Ages stage, with the background ageing over time and crumbling away over time and the scenery changing from past to present would be cool too.

Better.

Four Swords and Four Swords Adventure hardly count as two separate games.

Why? Because they were both light on story, but heavy on action? Because their stories were so similar? Regardless, they were different games, with different plots and characters to go along with them. They count as 2.

Agahnim

Whoa...seriously? The miniboss from ALttP?

That's a new one.

thank you jesus

Amen.

Also, Zelda isn't in Brawl. Have you heard?

 

[EggBomb]

Out:

I don't think Shiek's return is very likely, I feel that Zamus will take up the acrobatic end of things this SB outing.


In:

Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf will all probably appear in their TP forms. Zelda and Ganondorf will probably have revived movesets to fit their apperance (and both probably have some sort of Tri-Force Super Smash).

I'm all for WW Link appearing in the game aslong as his moveset doesn't involve sailing . He easily has enough potential to have new moves and play entirely different from Link.


Possible:

I can picture Midna making an appearence as a playable character, but the problem is I feel that if she appeared on Wolf-Link that there might be some Link overkill (3 versions of Link). Also her moveset could be dependent on Ganondorfs...if he has dark magic/twilight powers there is either a limitation put on the creation of her character or there no need for another darkmagic/twilight character altogether.

Vaati would be a cool contrast to Windwaker link.

I would love to see the Skullkid in the game. He's been in 3 Zelda games (OoT, MM, TP). He could take moves from all 3 of the games and become an interesting enemy.


Zelda Series Inclusions:
-Link (TP)
-Zelda (TP)
-Ganondorf (TP)
-Young Link (WW)
-One of the 3 Possibles

 

[Creo]

Jeez people this again...would you guys at least stop arguing about Sheik, it is very old now. Everyone else from the game is fine though.

 

[MirageofMadness]

Dissing WW Link because it's cartoony is a ******** argument. Half of this game is half serious half cartoony already.

....

In addition to that, Sakurai seems to be representing recent iterations of the several franchises , and Wind Waker was one of the most important titles for Nintendo in the last 5 years. This Link is the first one that have been used... 5 times! And Aonuma said that he wanted to keep making games with WW Link in. There are a Zero Suit Samus already. Wind Waker Link would result in a very interesting character as he can use weapons and tools that the TP couldn't because its quirkyness.

Very well said. I agree, especially about the part about the franchises. Smash Brothers is not only an incredibly popular game franchise, but it is now a total marketing tool for Nintendo- the focus has shifted from representing Nintendo's best-selling or most popular franchises to representing the most recent version of the franchises - hence Wario's WarioWare biker outfit instead of his more famous yellow and purple overalls and Link's TP form.

Considering this, as well as considering the cel-shaded Zelda's popularity, and the fact that Aonuma wants to keep using the Cel-shaded Link, it would be surprising to me if a cel-shaded form of link didn't appear ikn Brawl.

However, what would his name be? I hope they don't name him "cel-shaded Link" because that is just tacky. Would "Young Link" do the cell-shaded version justice? is there any other name someone can think of for him?

Also on another note, I would rather see Midna than Skull kid only because from what she has demonstrated in TP she could already have a moveset. If she is riding wolf Link though, it could be too many Links. As for including a Skull Kid, that seems tricky. I would probably only give a crap if the skull kid was wearing Majora's Mask, because he was really the only significant Skull Kid in the entire series- the others were all fairly minor. Vaati doesn't get me very excited- Brawl's Zelda representatives don't need to get that obscure in my opinion. Including the main villain, Ganon(dorf), is plenty.

 

[dynamic_entry]

@ Mirage:

his naming was briefly discussed on the previous page of this thread. i think Younk Link and Hero of Winds were 2 of the most likely candidates. also, Windd Waker Link could not be ruled oout because it doesnt necessariily refer to the game, but rather the item. but thats a bit strange IMO......its like calling one of the Links from OoT Ocarina Link...i guess it makess sense, but i prefer the first 2.

 

[Fawriel]

Wind Waker... hmm, it refers to the baton, doesn't it? I'm confused about that...
It does sound like a suitable "title" of sorts for the person who wields it. That's what I meant.
"Hero of the Wind" would be clumsy, too. There'd have to be "Link" in there somewhere... "Link, the Hero of the Wind"? A little long...

In the end, Young Link is appropriate, I guess. Maybe without a capital y. =P

 

[dynamic_entry]

Wind Waker... hmm, it refers to the baton, doesn't it? I'm confused about that...
It does sound like a suitable "title" of sorts for the person who wields it. That's what I meant.
"Hero of the Wind" would be clumsy, too. There'd have to be "Link" in there somewhere... "Link, the Hero of the Wind"? A little long...

In the end, Young Link is appropriate, I guess. Maybe without a capital y. =P

just cos you're a young link tragic!

its been a while since i played WW, but i think its actually "Hero of Winds" still doesnt roll off the tongue but its a bit nicer.

 

[Fawriel]

just cos you're a young link tragic!

AND **** PROUD OF IT! *salutes to the green flag shedding a tear*



...*checks Wikipedia and verifies that it's indeed "Hero of Winds" which indeed sounds much nicer*

Hero of Winds Link!
Zero Suit Samus!
King Dedede!

Fair enough. *nodnods*

 

[schep]

Possesed Zelda from tp

I've been disappointed with the lack of bad guys in the super smash brothers series. Every body has a dark side that they love to play out in a virtual reality world. How sweet would it be to have Zelda's dark side unleashed? I wanna see possesed Zelda from tp in the game! That would be my greatest hope for the game. highly unlikely but so so sweet.

-Y-peace-Y-

 

[Chief Mendez]

^^^
Maybe as a Final Smash or in someone's Adventure mode/an event match...but not playable. Not even a regular move.

 

[Fawriel]

Costume.

Evilness as a costume?
That raises, like, so many philosophical questions. =O

Anyway, spare me the "everyone has a dark side". It's an overused cliche. Not to mention that it's inaccurate. Everyone has a light side. Usually somewhere deeply, deeply hidden.

...and being possessed doesn't quite say "Look at me, I'm living out my dark side!"
Unless you're talking about drugs.

 

[Aki-toriko]

Link, Zelda, Ganondorf obviously, but no Sheik for Zelda, simply because Sheik hasn't appeared in a Zelda since OOT nearly 9 years ago now, and Zelda will be based on her TP model where she didn't transform at all.
WW Link will be there too, I'm pretty sure of it. He's popular, the developers will want a replacement for Y Link and he has enough exclusive moves to prevent him being an outright Link Clone. Plus his art style would definatly fit given the art style of Yoshi Island etc. I reckon he'll be called Young Link however as he is only a young tenager and it would be much easier than 'waker of the winds link'.
I reckon one more Zelda spot will be given, most likely to Midna (in her final, not impish form) or Vaati. Midna has proven to be popular and is very relevent to the series (plus she could use the fused shadows as her final smash). Vaati is the secondary Zelda villain after Ganondorf and has great scope for a good moveset.
I don't think there will be any more character slots given. I also don't think we will see Wolf Link. I'm sure hidden deep in this thread (or elsewhere) someone has come up a Wolf Link moveset, but I remain to be convinced that a four legged wolf would work in any fighting game, let alone Smash Bros. It would just be too tricky to implement, in addition to making Wolf Link a very fiddly character. Instead of the huge variety of smashes, punches and kicks, all he could do would be bite and lunge. Yes I know Link is inside his wolf form, but you still can't get away from the fact that...he's a wolf. You can't have a straight out Queensbury rules dule with a wolf!