Final Zelda Discussion - What's In, what's out?

[Biggie Smalls]

If Zant becomes a character Sakurai gets a swift kick in the ***.

 

[Whisk]

If Zant becomes a character Sakurai gets a swift kick in the ***.

Seriously, I think he'd make a great addition to Brawl. Give some reasons why you don't want him in, or is it simply just because YOU don't like him.

 

[Vagrant Lustoid]

I've decided that despite my previous protestations, WW Link could be really quite cool. So I made a moveset. Note that I stated WW Link, not Cartoon Link or Cel Link. There's just too much you could implement if you start taking the other cel-shaded LoZ games, and it doesn't seem to be confirmed as to how conclusively those three with Vaati in them are related in terms of the Link character. But seeing as to how the WW Link is the pioneer of the style and the biggest one of the cel Links, i've decided to honour him.

Name: Hero of Winds
Age: Pre-teen
Developer: Nintendo
First Appearance: Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker
Other Notable Appearances: Legend of Zelda: The Phantom Hourglass

Height: 2/5
Weight: 2/5
Attack Speed: 3/5
Attack Power: 3/5
Attack Range: 2/5
Grab Range: 4/5
Running Speed: 3/5
Jump: 3/5
Falling Speed: 3/5


Regular Attacks:

A: Horizontal Slash (5%)

AA: Forward Stab (5%)

AAA: Sword Rush (Continuous jabbing assault, very quick. 4% each hit.)

Dash A: Undercutter (HoW slides, cutting anyone in the way of his dodge, knocking them up and away from him. 12-13%)

F Tilt: Shield Attack (HoW smacks the enemy in the face with his shield, causing low damage but reasonable knockback. 8%)

U Tilt: Jump Attack (HoW jumps forwards, striking the foe from above with his sword. 10-12%)

D Tilt: Parry (HoW rolls forwards, and slashes as he jumps up out of his crouch, as seen in The Windwaker. Can be used to dodge moves and attack people from behind if you’re right in front of them. 10-12%)

F Smash: Power Thrust (HoW grips his sword with both hands, charges up for a moment and then lunges forwards in a move with significant range, given his fast, abrupt lunge. The hit player is rocketed away with horizontal knockback. 10% Uncharged, 18% Charged)

U Smash: Ganon’s End (HoW jumps up and forward, and if he touches a character, stands on them as he plunges his sword into their forehead. He then pulls it back out and flips off the character, striking them with his sword as he does, for reasonably good upwards knockback. 8% Uncharged, 16% Charged)

D Smash: Hurricane Spin (HoW does the signature 360 degree spinning attack that strikes everyone around him. The final arc of the move does an extra 50% damage and high knockback. It has a far greater range than HoW’s sword regularly does, but if used from a fully charged state it leaves the HoW dizzy for a second. 12% Uncharged, 20% Charged)

Aerial Attacks:

N Air: Aerial Slash (A simple horizontal slash in the air. 10%)

F Air: Bomb Throw (HoW lobs a bomb forwards. It explodes if it hits a player, or else explodes after a certain amount of time once thrown. Good knockback, especially on other aerial characters. 20%)

B Air: Reverse Grapple (HoW swings the grappling hook, so it arcs from underneath him to behind him. If it strikes anyone below him it performs a Meteor Smash, but if it hits someone behind him, it grapples them, and HoW pulls the grappling hook, causing the grappled foe to smash into the shield on his back and get knocked backwards. 10%, 6% extra when hitting the shield.)

U Air: Beast Slayer (HoW jabs his sword straight upwards, and anyone struck by this gets flung quite high. 10%)

D Air: Iron Boots (HoW hops and the Iron Boots appear on his feet, causing him to plunge downwards. Anyone struck by this gets knocked away with some horizontal and downwards movement. However, HoW can’t stop falling until he hits something with this move. It also makes him fall incredibly fast. He continues to wear the boots once he hits the ground, which makes him impervious to all winds, and much heavier and slower. To cancel out of the Iron Boots, HoW must perform a D Tilt, which de-equips them and performs Parry. 15%)

Special Attacks:

B: Wind Waker (When B is held down, tap the control stick in the direction you wish the wind to blow. For a short period, the wind will blow in that direction. Moving against the wind slows you down, but moving with it speeds you up. If the wind is blowing upwards, all jumps are assisted, more noticeably for light characters, if the wind is blowing down all jumps are hindered, again more noticeably for the light characters.)

Smash B: Boomerang (HoW tosses the Boomerang out in front of him, and you can hold B to allow the flight path to be changed. When you hold it, HoW goes unresponsive and you can DI the boomerang up to five times to change directions. This move doesn't have to be Smashed to work, you merely have to hold left or right before you tap B. 8%)

Up B: Deku Leaf (If used on the ground, it creates a powerful gust of air that surges upwards and forwards, knocking anyone it hits high up into the air like the tornadoes of Hyrule Castle in SSB64. If used while in the air, it will slow your descent and makes the fall very DI-able, or if you’ve used the Wind Waker to blow wind upwards, HoW will catch the breeze and soar upwards in a DI-able jump that has excellent range but is quite slow. 10%)

Down B: Skull Hammer (HoW slams his Skull Hammer into the ground in front of him, dealing heavy damage to anyone hit by it. If it doesn’t hit anyone it sends out a shockwave in front of HoW that stuns anyone hit for half as long as a shieldbreaker stun. 15%)

Final Smash: Phantom Hourglass (HoW uses the Phantom Hourglass to temporarily freeze time, then you can dash around and attack people for that period of time free of danger.)

Grapple Attacks:

Grab: Grappling Hook (Pretty simple, HoW tosses the Grappling Hook forward, it wraps around a character and you pull them in. Nice and useful. The range is a little longer than Link's Hookshot, but it's not as fast to deploy and retract.)

Grab Attack: Constrict (The HoW tightens the rope wrapped around the enemy, constricting them and damaging them slightly. This move is also unique because it actually prevents the enemy from wriggling free as easily as normal. 1%)

Forward Throw: Power Bracelets (The Bracelets appear in a flash on HoW's arms as he hurls the enemy bodily across the stage. Impressive knockback, but no damage.)

Reverse Throw: Grapple Toss (HoW swings the Grappling Hook around his head with the character attatched and then releases, sending the character behind him with moderate upwards and rear knockback. 9%)

Up Throw: Deku Doom (The captured foe is tossed into the air with a Deku Leaf, making them highly vulnerable to wind directions until they recover from the throw. 7%)

Down Throw: Waking Wind (HoW tosses the character upwards as he waves the Wind Waker, causing the wind to change to a sharp upgust, adding significant height to the throw. The wind then suddenly becomes a violent downforce, and the thrown character slams into the ground. Damage is dependant on weight, with light characters taking more. 5%-13%)

Edge Recovery: Hyoi Pear (HoW tosses a Hyoi Pear onto the edge of the stage and seagulls swoop in to peck at any edgeguarding players as HoW jumps onto the stage. 3-8%)

Tether Recovery: Graceful Grapple (HoW autotargets the nearest ledge when he taps the grab button in mid-air. If the grappling hook can successfully grapple an edge, then HoW has to climb up it, moving fairly slowly. He can be attacked quite easily while climbing the rope and reeling it in. When he reaches the top, Hyoi Pear is automatically performed.)

However, I could definitely see Vaati as the lone rep for the cel-shaded Zeldaverse, and both Vaati and Hero of Winds have surpassed Midna w/ Wolf Link as my preferred fourth character, though I still wouldn't mind seeing her there. I'm still against Zant and Tingle though, and despite my deepest abiding love for Skull Kid, I accept he probably won't make it, and don't really plan to push the issue. Expect to see Tingle and Skull Kid movesets sooner or later though. Oh, and if anyone can give me a good list of ways Vaati attacks, or his fighting style, I'll make a moveset for him too, since I haven't played any of the Four Swords arc.

 

[Skullkid]

I don't think the amount of games a character appears in, or the time between the characters last appearance and, say, Brawl matters to Nintendo as much as it matters to many of you. Its almost impossible to tell what standards Nintendo uses when selecting characters.

Sure, popularity plays a part...I mean, Mario, Link, and Samus almost have to be there, but
The amount of games a character has been in seems to be a popular argument, but Ice Climbers? They've had, what, one game? (And they don't do too well in the popularity department, either.)

Some people say time has passed for certain characters, but before Melee, when was the last time you played as....Game & Watch?

There are characters that I'd love to see, and I could make cases for why they should make the cut (I could also do the opposite for characters I don't want to see), but who knows what chances any character has? Who knows what Nintendo are thinking?

I think Skull Kid's originality and cool move set potential, combined with the "need" for more villains in the series should be enough for him to make it. Nintendo, and many of you, may disagree.

I think Zant is too generic.

And I'm indifferent about Vaati.

 

[Deleted member]

Sure, popularity plays a part...I mean, Mario, Link, and Samus almost have to be there, but
The amount of games a character has been in seems to be a popular argument, but Ice Climbers? They've had, what, one game? (And they don't do too well in the popularity department, either.)

Some people say time has passed for certain characters, but before Melee, when was the last time you played as....Game & Watch?

There are characters that I'd love to see, and I could make cases for why they should make the cut (I could also do the opposite for characters I don't want to see), but who knows what chances any character has? Who knows what Nintendo are thinking?

I agree with you. Sometimes (all the time) I get pissed off when people say character A is 'too obscure' or character B is 'japan-only'. How can we decide? Seriously, look at Gamefaqs's 'Rate their chances topic'.

Madness. And I'm not just saying that cause Ralph is gonna get a 4.8% rating .

N00bs.

 

[smashmaniac16]

i think the 4 sword needs to be an item

 

[d-Rishain-g]

http://www.thewiire.com/news/879/1/Aonuma_Confirms_Sheik_Ganondorf_in_Brawl

 

[Stryks]

That doesnt confirm anything rishawhatever, ONLY if its from SAKURAI should u believe it...

besides its ganondorf is a shoe in...

 

[d-Rishain-g]

i have a feeling that ganondorf well be hidden so we wont be revealed tell you get the game.

 

[Stryks]

... what? YOU wont reveal ganondorf?

and Ike and trainer are surely hidden, so technically they can stil lshow ganondorf in the dijo...

 

[Skullkid]

http://www.thewiire.com/news/879/1/Aonuma_Confirms_Sheik_Ganondorf_in_Brawl

No surprises there. Still no word on new additions from the Zelda franchise, though.

 

[Skullkid]

... what? YOU wont reveal ganondorf?

and Ike and trainer are surely hidden, so technically they can stil lshow ganondorf in the dijo...

I really hope they aren't revealing "hidden" characters. Kind of pointless, if you ask me.

 

[Deleted member]

I really hope they aren't revealing "hidden" characters. Kind of pointless, if you ask me.

I hope they do, god**** it!Well, when the game is out, yes. Like on release day, so we know what to unlock and how to do it. I want to know with certainty that isaac is or isn't in, not go to gamefaqs.

 

[PhazonPirate]

I would have wanted TP Link to be able to transform into Wolf Link+Midna with his DownB,because he's had the same moveset for 3 smash games now.That's not going to happen and now I just want Ganondorf,Sheik(as a separate character),and WW Link.

 

[Skullkid]

I hope they do, god**** it!Well, when the game is out, yes. Like on release day, so we know what to unlock and how to do it. I want to know with certainty that isaac is or isn't in, not go to gamefaqs.

I could live with them releasing the full character list on release date, but only because I'd be too busy playing to have the game spoiled for me. But if they've already revealed "hidden characters", I'd be ...less than happy.

 

[Fawriel]

Go Vagrant! ...I admit, I can't read the whole moveset since I'm under time pressure, but I'm sure it's awesome! ...*checks*.... you changed his B moves, though. At least the Skull Hammer must leave. Clunkiness is not a valid ability for WW Link, in my opinion.


Now, this is kind of off-topic, but I'm hoping somebody can answer this:

TWILIGHT PRINCESS SPOILERS AHEAD!

In Twilight Princess, the castle is seized by Ganondorf's forces and stuff, right. I also faintly recall the villagers staring in awe at something. Right?
So why on earth are the villagers all so carefree and stuff once you get to walk around freely in there? It's like nobody cares or knows that there's something wrong - even after that frikkin huge BARRIER is set up!
What's up with that? o_o

 

[Cyberbot5000]

What about one of the "gang" from Twilight Princess (the ones that are at the Inn)

 

[Skullkid]

What about one of the "gang" from Twilight Princess (the ones that are at the Inn)

The Bombers from Majora's Mask >>>>>> The Gang from Twilight Princes.

Think about it.

Playing hide & seek, having a secret club, helping others, discriminating against non-humans (how tolerant were you at age, what five? six? ), and wearing bandannas >>>> Getting kidnapped by a fatty on a fat hog.

None of the Twilight Princes Gang would ever be allowed into the Bombers Secret Society of Justice. They wouldn't even be allowed within 500 feet of the secret entrance. lol...The only one who stands a chance is the little guy who was always busting Links chops...The youngest member... But even then, its along shot.

 

[Chief Mendez]

So why on earth are the villagers all so carefree and stuff once you get to walk around freely in there? It's like nobody cares or knows that there's something wrong - even after that frikkin huge BARRIER is set up!
What's up with that? o_o

Yeah, I always wondered about that too. I think I just subconsciously passed it off as a plot-hole that would take too much dev time to work around.

Or you could just pretend that everyone's too enthralled by Malo-Mart to pay any mind to the giant glowing diamond in their backyard.

The Bombers from Majora's Mask >>>>>> The Gang from Twilight Princess.

Quoted for truth.

I don't think the amount of games a character appears in, or the time between the characters last appearance and, say, Brawl matters to Nintendo as much as it matters to many of you. Its almost impossible to tell what standards Nintendo uses when selecting characters.

Hey, it's possible we might see completely out-of-the-blue characters like R.O.B., a Pokemon Trainer, or Petey Pirahna...but it's not likely, and I think everyone here knows that we're just speculating.

Most would say that Diddy Kong has a better chance than Captain Syrup, right?

Those criteria you listed are what we use to gauge a character's chances because for the most part, they're pretty accurate. But they're not foolproof. I'd advise you to just keep supporting your 'unlikely' character of choice, and laugh at everyone if they get included.

 

[Skullkid]

I'd advise you to just keep supporting your 'unlikely' character of choice, and laugh at everyone if they get included.

And laugh I will. Unless of course, Skull Kid gets assist trophied...

 

[Tau]

i'm glad that we've seen the link's special moves update, now i dont have to hear a bunch of n00bs saying Wolf link for Brawl!! all of the time.. >_> i never liked that idea..

 

[Stryks]

True, never liked thw wolf Idea myself, since it will have to make midna part of the wolf form... Midna solo FTW!!

 

[Tau]

True, never liked thw wolf Idea myself, since it will have to make midna part of the wolf form... Midna solo FTW!!

yes, Midna solo FTW! lol i would really like to see her in brawl but alot of people think that it's a n00bish idea.. she would pwn imo but i'd still be fine if she didn't make it.

 

[Katy Parry]

True, never liked thw wolf Idea myself, since it will have to make midna part of the wolf form... Midna solo FTW!!

QFT. Minda's awesome. Stryks, wanna play MSC?

 

[Stryks]

Yes Midna is too awesome to be paired with a wolf...

and ethan later, I gotta practice my new main, since theres a tourney this weekend, aint playing strikers for a while...

 

[Earthbenderjump5]

eh, i hate tingle

the one i think i don't care if he is in or not,
i think skull kid would be the most likely or minda,
if you just imagine them on the dojo screen newcomer Skull Kid! Newcommer Minda!
but the one out of those 2 that would make the most since would be Skull kid if you imagine him on the newocmer list he would have the best picture in brawl, nuf said

 

[Tau]

tingle = AT
skull kid = playable
midna = playable or AT

 

[Creo]

True, never liked thw wolf Idea myself, since it will have to make midna part of the wolf form... Midna solo FTW!!

Ah Stryks..You must remember are days on this thread starting at page 26..good times.

yes, Midna solo FTW! lol i would really like to see her in brawl but alot of people think that it's a n00bish idea.. she would pwn imo but i'd still be fine if she didn't make it.

No, Midna Solo FTL! Don't make me get Numa in here with me. We'll easily beat you and Stryks..Stryks should agree on that.

QFT. Minda's awesome. Stryks, wanna play MSC?

QFF. Midna[not Minda]is horrible. I would've played earlier but I have no Wi-Fi now.

Yes Midna is too awesome to be paired with a wolf...

and ethan later, I gotta practice my new main, since theres a tourney this weekend, aint playing strikers for a while...

..Your gonna lose that tournament.

eh, i hate tingle

the one i think i don't care if he is in or not,
i think skull kid would be the most likely or minda,
if you just imagine them on the dojo screen newcomer Skull Kid! Newcommer Minda!
but the one out of those 2 that would make the most since would be Skull kid if you imagine him on the newocmer list he would have the best picture in brawl, nuf said

..I souly hate you. Read from page 26 you n00b. Nuf said!? That was horrible on your part.

tingle = AT
skull kid = playable
midna = playable or AT

I like Skull Kid but I don't think he will be playable, same as Midna. If I had to choose-
Tingle = Playble[read from page 26 for reasons]
Skull Kid = Playable[again, 26]
Midna = AT[26]

Oh jeez. Are me, Wiseguy, Stryks, Numa, Luke, etc. gonna start this again?

 

[Tau]

I like Skull Kid but I don't think he will be playable, same as Midna. If I had to choose-
Tingle = Playble[read from page 26 for reasons]
Skull Kid = Playable[again, 26]
Midna = AT[26]

Oh jeez. Are me, Wiseguy, Stryks, Numa, Luke, etc. gonna start this again?

oh, that was just what i would like to happen in brawl. but i really dont think that any of them will make it.

 

[Vagrant Lustoid]

I read page 26. It didn't convince me of any real points for Tingle or Skull Kid. In fact, Wiseguy presented an interesting case for why Midna stands a greater chance. So I remain neutral on the matter of who is most likely to get in, but I'll gladly say who I WANT to get in. The order is: Skull Kid >> Midna/Wolf Link >>> Midna > Tingle (Because I think I don't really care about the last two, so if they get in I'll simply meh a bit.)

 

[NyGGz]

Midna Skull Kid Zant


the only 3 I agree on

(not counting link zelda shiek and ganondorf)

 

[Tau]

i hate zant.. but he could have a good moveset.
(actually anyone could have a good moveset, i need to stop saying that..)

 

[PPNY]

My idea for an item is those chickens (cant remeber the name). Basically one will walk around the level clucking along and if you hit it, it does its cawing and suddenly the entire stage is flutered up with the little guys. Those things are evil man.

 

[Tau]

My idea for an item is those chickens (cant remeber the name). Basically one will walk around the level clucking along and if you hit it, it does its cawing and suddenly the entire stage is flutered up with the little guys. Those things are evil man.

this is a pretty good idea and i think that there needs too be more zelda items to so i hope that it happens. (i dont think this thread is for item discussion though..)

i think that they are called cucco btw.

 

[PPNY]

this is a pretty good idea and i think that there needs too be more zelda items to so i hope that it happens. (i dont think this thread is for item discussion though..)

i think that they are called cucco btw.

Ya i think they are called cuccos, thats right. And i just read the opening of this thread and it said i could suggest items so i was pretty sure i could. That item had been on my mind for awhile. Thanks for agreein

 

[Noshiee]

If a cucco gets to be an item, you'll get like slow fall abilities like peach parasol or someting, though if you hit it, lots of cuccos will appear and attack playeers lol.

 

[Tau]

Ya i think they are called cuccos, thats right. And i just read the opening of this thread and it said i could suggest items so i was pretty sure i could. That item had been on my mind for awhile. Thanks for agreein

oh cool :D i didn't know we could discuss items here. anyway, nice idea again.

 

[PPNY]

If a cucco gets to be an item, you'll get like slow fall abilities like peach parasol or someting, though if you hit it, lots of cuccos will appear and attack playeers lol.

XD forgot you could float with them. Nice add on.

 

[Tau]

ITEM IDEA: Power Bracelets

Power bracelets have been in a few zelda games, so what do you guys think of these being a new item? a character could just slip them on and their attacks would instantly be alot stronger than normal for about.. 30 seconds?

 

[Noshiee]

The Deku Nut can also be a nice idea, you'll throw it down and stun those around you (like when a shield brakes) or throw it like a normal item and stun the one you hit with it.