Final Fantasy Tactics Mafia: Game finally over! Raziek lynched, Town wins! Lego too!

[T-block]

@Gheb
Well, for starters, there's you. I don't like your interactions with Nickel any more than you like mine.

1. You're obviously trying to get me to stop pressuring him because you think he'll react badly to said pressure. What's your reasoning that he's town? Let's take a look.



You claim that he's a newbie scared to post his thoughts... something I have NEVER seen from newbie town, although it's not exactly uncommon in newbie SCUM (and Raziek even linked us to some post game commentary revealing that he sheeps and agrees with people as scum). And then there's the classic



"Nobody else is scumhunting either, so you can't single him out!" That is not good reasoning. I'm not claiming my case is some bulletproof masterpiece, it's not. However, "He might not be scum hunting, but you shouldn't care" is not a defense.

2. After that little display, we have your attack on me. What don't you like me for? That I'm tunneling Nickel. Because I obviously never, EVER tunnel as town, and even if I did, it's just so OBVIOUS that I'm dead set on Nickel being scum so early and there's just NO CHANCE I might be gauging other player's reactions as well. (Hint: The previous sentence was heavily sarcastic.) I know (alright, after Megaman X, I'm 90% sure) that you're not that stupid, Gheb. Even if my case was completely worthless, it's produced some nice reactions from you guys that I can follow up on, and that's what I was hoping for from the start.

Unvote.
Vote: Gheb


@Ryker
There's not much to say to "He's a scared kid, and you should quit pressuring him because he's panicking!". If you want, you can go dig up a face palm picture and consider that my official response.

lol what

this was so ridiculously defensive

please don't be obnoxious, nich. it's going to make me look bad =\

 

[Raziek]

vote: Raziek

let's dance ^_^



why are you being soooo open about everything? do these things need to be said? this doesn't feel like you at all. why are you putting so much effort into defending nickel instead of letting nich do whatever it is he wants?

at this stage of the game, i think the effect of a voteblock is negligible, so i wouldn't even be able to use it towards some sort of goal, so i'm not sure how to answer that question. i might pick ryker just so he doesn't pull some utrick'd stuff =P

Wat.

This feels hella faked bro. What's wrong with me being open?

I'm gonna call out play I don't agree with when I see it. It was fine for Nich to initially point out that Nickel wanted to contribute, but he's misconstruing his intentions in my opinion, especially given that Nickel is new.

I gave him time, and he certainly doesn't seem to have an over-arching goal with his pressure, he's just nitpicking stupid ****.

 

[Raziek]

Awww barf, Gheb vs. Nich is disgusting on Nich's side.

Nich is hiding behind his Town meta of tunneling. I think that's rather BS given that Town Nich's intent is always clear. It's not here.

vote: Nich

Why did you turn on Gheb for doing EXACTLY what I did? Your pressure on Nickel was warranted at first, but you took it too far and MULTIPLE people pointed this out. What did you hope to gain?

How exactly are you validating a vote on Gheb?

 

[Overswarm]

Ryker - Red Ryu,
Nicholas1024- Gheb, Legolas, Ryker, Raziek,
Red Ryu- Rajam,
Rajam - NickelbackR0cks, Glyph,
NickelbackR0cks-
Raziek - Inferno3044, T-block,
Gheb- Nicholas1024,

Gova, Seph,

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is February 17th at 3:00 PM EST

 

[T-block]

kay gheb, we can dance too ^_^

Terrible post. Why single out Raziek for something I and to a lesser extent Ryker have done as well? Not only that but you also imply that Nich doing "whatever he wants" is a good thing when all his "pressure" has achieved was scaring Nickel from actually coming out with his reads. How is that productive? Nickel wouldn't dare posting his thoughts on scumhunting before Ryker / Raz / I started to question Nich's way of "pressuring" him ... if anything this course of action proves that Nich should NOT be allowed to do "whatever he wants."

FoS T-Block

buddy, there is definitely a difference between your behaviours.

raziek says he did think it was off that nickel avoided my first question. he says in 108 that he wanted to hold off and observe though. then in 140 he is focused solely on defending nickel. before you guys started questioning nich, nich was basically the only person doing something other than setup discussion, which is why i was fine with what he was doing. raziek was simply hindering the pressure on nickel without doing much himself.

you, on the other hand, gheb, are more focused on questioning nich, and defending nickel indirectly. that is something that can actually lead to progress.

ryker is much closer to what raziek is doing (his 109 is hella weird as a virtually perfect echo of raziek's post just above it, made half an hour later), but i'd rather wait to see more from ryker. he's also focused more on questioning nich than defending nickel.

basically, you are different people doing different things, so is it so ridiculous that i would treat you differently?

so gheb, you think nich's pressure on nickel is making it so that nickel is less likely to give actual content. do you buy into the fear that things nickel says under pressure can be misconstrued by scum? if so, and we are capable enough to be aware that such pressure might lead to false evidence, why can't we simply rely on us being able to notice when such miscontruing is attempted? doesn't this help us catch scum in itself? seems like a pretty empty fear to me.

 

[Raziek]

so gheb, you think nich's pressure on nickel is making it so that nickel is less likely to give actual content. do you buy into the fear that things nickel says under pressure can be misconstrued by scum? if so, and we are capable enough to be aware that such pressure might lead to false evidence, why can't we simply rely on us being able to notice when such miscontruing is attempted? doesn't this help us catch scum in itself? seems like a pretty empty fear to me.

I can't disagree with this, but I still think Nich was going too far with it.

 

[T-block]

Wat.

This feels hella faked bro. What's wrong with me being open?

I'm gonna call out play I don't agree with when I see it. It was fine for Nich to initially point out that Nickel wanted to contribute, but he's misconstruing his intentions in my opinion, especially given that Nickel is new.

I gave him time, and he certainly doesn't seem to have an over-arching goal with his pressure, he's just nitpicking stupid ****.

i'm thinking of moderator mafia, where you called out my dayvig gambit for absolutely no reason.

my main concern about you at this moment, raziek, is that i am getting the feel that you are finding ways to fake contribution. the feel started when you post things like not-a-dancer list, but you gave decent town motivation for putting that out there, so fine. then you make comments like "yeah, nickel's done some weird things, but i don't want to pressure too hard", and 140, where the only thing you do is tell nich he's tunnelling.

i can't see your 128 (voteblock thing) as anything but a hollow question. maybe you could elaborate on what you might have gained from it? what i see is a question that is rather silly, yet is easy to answer for both scum and town, and no follow up on the answers.

i like 163 much more though. hiding behind town meta is exactly what i thought when i read that post.

 

[T-block]

I can't disagree with this, but I still think Nich was going too far with it.

if you agree, then how can you go "too far"?

what defines too far?

if you agree, then why wouldn't you just let him continue?

 

[Raziek]

The voteblock question gives me an idea of who you guys trust the least in this game.

What this information tells me stays under my hat for now.

Too far is entirely subjective, but I think the moment Nich pushed it beyond simply pointing it out, and trying to drum up a wagon on it is when it became "too far". Too far is the point where I feel it's a mislynch.

And the reason I stepped in is because I think Nich is scummy for doing it, and his interactions with Gheb, thus my vote.

 

[Inferno3044]

Unvote

I agree with a lot of Raziek's points regarding Nich and his play. His town play (from what I've seen) is pretty transparent. He seems very defensive and I don't really understand his point on Gheb atm. I'm fine with him dying. Rajam can die too.

 

[Inferno3044]

@TBlock - Being open isn't scummy at all. I generally am open regardless of alignment. I actually prefer to show and state my thoughts as town.

 

[T-block]

The voteblock question gives me an idea of who you guys trust the least in this game.

What this information tells me stays under my hat for now.

Too far is entirely subjective, but I think the moment Nich pushed it beyond simply pointing it out, and trying to drum up a wagon on it is when it became "too far". Too far is the point where I feel it's a mislynch.

And the reason I stepped in is because I think Nich is scummy for doing it, and his interactions with Gheb, thus my vote.

okay, but in light of what i said, why is pushing as far as nich did cause for alarm? nickel was nowhere close to being lynched.

Unvote

I agree with a lot of Raziek's points regarding Nich and his play. His town play (from what I've seen) is pretty transparent. He seems very defensive and I don't really understand his point on Gheb atm. I'm fine with him dying. Rajam can die too.

why rajam? what about RR and glyph?

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

How is it that everybody thinks another player is acting fake

How is it that I'm being lumped in with players like Rajam

 

[Raziek]

okay, but in light of what i said, why is pushing as far as nich did cause for alarm? nickel was nowhere close to being lynched.

I thought I made this pretty clear. I'm not reading any Town intent from it.

Thus, I don't think it should continue.

 

[Raziek]

Goddamnit censors.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Eh, I'm used to people just not understanding what I have to say. It took forever for them to figure out my arguments vs Nabe in Time Travelers...

Anyway, more to the point, here's a basic summary of me/Gheb/nickel interactions to this point.

Nickel makes a few odd posts that don't do any content and seem like posting for the sake of posting.

T-block and I call him out on it, and start up a wagon to see what a little pressure does.

Nickel basically apologizes for his lack of content and does a bit of setup speculation, but still doesn't produce any scumhunting.

I keep pushing.

Gheb says that Nickel's obviously new and that I'm scaring him, so I should stop the pressure because he's reacting badly to it.

I explain to him that that's horrible reasoning, and keep pushing.

Gheb says he dislikes my tunneling (in effect) and votes me for it.

I've had enough, and turn things back around on Gheb with my own mini-case.

Basically, the reason I dislike Gheb is that his defense of Nickel feels fake. How can anyone even pretend that "The pressure is actually PRESSURING him, so you should stop it" is a valid argument?!? Not to mention, his attack on me seems rather odd as well. I'm one of the heaviest tunnelers on this site, so how is it logical to call me scummy for said tunneling? Yeah, I'll admit that it's possible for me-scum to try and imitate said tunneling (and logically, what I would try to do as scum). However that doesn't change the fact that I tunnel as town all the time, so you'd need better evidence as to WHY a particular instance of me tunneling is scummy. (And I play with Gheb a fair bit, so he's definitely aware of my meta.)

@T-block
You weren't in Fire Emblem. I know from experience how dumb arguments can somehow catch on and get out of hand if you let them, so I'm shutting it down before that happens.

 

[Inferno3044]

why rajam? what about RR and glyph?

Rajam started by posting stupid fluff and has left the scene since. He also generally has played catch up. RR and Glyph, although they haven't done much yet, haven't done anything in which I want them gone.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I'm one of the heaviest tunnelers on this site, so how is it logical to call me scummy for said tunneling? Yeah, I'll admit that it's possible for me-scum to try and imitate said tunneling (and logically, what I would try to do as scum). However that doesn't change the fact that I tunnel as town all the time, so you'd need better evidence as to WHY a particular instance of me tunneling is scummy. (And I play with Gheb a fair bit, so he's definitely aware of my meta.)

I am 12 and what is this? Tunneling is an anti-town connotation of focusing. Tunneling will always be anti-town as it is here. That being said, when was the last game you played with Gheb?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

You claim that he's a newbie scared to post his thoughts... something I have NEVER seen from newbie town... [...]

Are you kidding me.

No, seriously...

Are you ****ing kidding me. How many mafia games have you played in your life? Probably about as much as I did and yet you claim to have never seen a newbie town reacting scared under pressure? Yeah, that's complete bull.

"Nobody else is scumhunting either, so you can't single him out!" That is not good reasoning. I'm not claiming my case is some bulletproof masterpiece, it's not. However, "He might not be scum hunting, but you shouldn't care" is not a defense.

Lots of wrong in this. You obviously haven't read my posts carefully.

I never said anything near "nobody else is scumhunting". I'm saying that other people aren't scumhunting by any means [Glyph, RR, Rajam, ...] so picking out Nickel on it is obviously selective, no matter what reason you actually have.
Also, I have no intention of defending Nickel ... any "defense" I have for him is only the side-effect of me attacking you. And wow @ misinterpreting my attack alltogether. "He might not be hunting scum, but you shouldn't care" is the last thing I'd say ... I'm saying that he'd have an easier time hunting scum if you wouldn't step on his toes all the ****ing time or - y'know - just ****ing tell him to start hunting scum rather than throwing **** at him for not doing it.

The only thing you've achieved with your pressure is to scare him off from posting his thoughts so don't pretend you've been doing anything useful.

2. After that little display, we have your attack on me. What don't you like me for? That I'm tunneling Nickel. Because I obviously never, EVER tunnel as town, and even if I did, it's just so OBVIOUS that I'm dead set on Nickel being scum so early and there's just NO CHANCE I might be gauging other player's reactions as well. (Hint: The previous sentence was heavily sarcastic.) I know (alright, after Megaman X, I'm 90% sure) that you're not that stupid, Gheb.

Stupidity has nothing to do with it. Sorry that not everybody buys your "I'm tunneling in every game ever when I'm town herp-a-derp" BS anymore. If you tunnel somebody that's NEVER a pro-town tell and I find it laughable that you try to clear you via self-meta that vouches for your inability to play just straight up pro-town.

Even if my case was completely worthless, it's produced some nice reactions from you guys that I can follow up on, and that's what I was hoping for from the start.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

so gheb, you think nich's pressure on nickel is making it so that nickel is less likely to give actual content. do you buy into the fear that things nickel says under pressure can be misconstrued by scum? if so, and we are capable enough to be aware that such pressure might lead to false evidence, why can't we simply rely on us being able to notice when such miscontruing is attempted? doesn't this help us catch scum in itself? seems like a pretty empty fear to me.

I highly doubt the majority of people in this game is capeable of noticing such things. And even then it's a really far-fetched concept with little concrete room for actual scum hunting. Letting Nickel just outright speak his mind - even if it takes a little longer - is easily as productive and doesn't require unncessary amounts of manipulative BS that just turns the whole game into WIFOM muck.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

How is it that I'm being lumped in with players like Rajam

A rhetorical question.

 

[T-block]

I highly doubt the majority of people in this game is capeable of noticing such things. And even then it's a really far-fetched concept with little concrete room for actual scum hunting. Letting Nickel just outright speak his mind - even if it takes a little longer - is easily as productive and doesn't require unncessary amounts of manipulative BS that just turns the whole game into WIFOM muck.

finding someone misconstruing in an attempt to paint someone as scum is a far-fetched method of scumhunting? what the hell game are you playing?

ryker, i'd like you to respond to this point as well please

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

A rhetorical question.

looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

 

[~ Gheb ~]

finding someone misconstruing in an attempt to paint someone as scum is a far-fetched method of scumhunting? what the hell game are you playing?

Are you even reading the argument between Nich and myself? As soon as somebody is found misconstruing somebody else's point as anti-town "it was his whole intention from the very beginning!" That's what I'm referring to when I say "WIFOM" muck ... you can continue this BS logic ad infinitum and you're always the good guy. If you use BS logic to make people look scummy then it's only to "gauge reactions from others".

If you feel like dealing with that then be my guest. I will fight the establishment of such twisted logic as a legitimate way of hunting scum. And for the record: I think you're one of the people who are not capeable of telling apart where the good intention ends and where the WIFOM BS starts. But most people aren't able to do that because it's not necessary - because it can easy be avoided to get the same results.

 

[Raziek]

Gheb, can we be friends? It's like you're thinking the same things I am about all this Nich crap.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Ryker on pages 1-3 40pp, what was the point of the set-up spec and mafia armchair posts?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Ryker on pages 1-3 40pp, what was the point of the set-up spec and mafia armchair posts?

To speculate about the set-up and point out that way Nich is wrong about the way he's presenting the game.

Your turn, what was the point of that question?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

To speculate about the set-up and point out that way Nich is wrong about the way he's presenting the game.

Your turn, what was the point of that question?

To see why your posting a lot of these questions early on about the set-up and mafia arm chair critic.

I don't see where it's going to lead town or even Nich in this case.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

So tell me, RR, what's wrong with set-up speculation in my case?

 

[T-block]

yo ryker, is nich scum

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

So tell me, RR, what's wrong with set-up speculation in my case?

If you delve into it too much it's not beneficial to town, even more so when it is this early and how long you kept up with it, somewhere towards the end of page 3 40pp I think.

You could have questioned people on posts they made or did something with connections but instead didn't commit until after the Nich wagon started up.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

yo ryker, is nich scum

Yes. Is that question supposed to be a hidden trap or intentionally painfully obvious?

If you delve into it too much it's not beneficial to town, even more so when it is this early and how long you kept up with it, somewhere towards the end of page 3 40pp I think.

You could have questioned people on posts they made or did something with connections but instead didn't commit until after the Nich wagon started up.

And? Draw the line, where was it too much. Where was I not covering new information or information that you don't think is beneficial for town?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with set-up speculation. It's a problem when it's a scapegoat for other contribution and that's simply not the case here. If you think it is, back it up with a vote.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Are you kidding me.

No, seriously...

Are you ****ing kidding me. How many mafia games have you played in your life? Probably about as much as I did and yet you claim to have never seen a newbie town reacting scared under pressure? Yeah, that's complete bull.

I'm completely serious. Scared under pressure? Maybe a little. Petrified to the point where they can't post any reads despite being SPECIFICALLY ASKED FOR THEM and giving them would stop the pressure? Get out of here.

I never said anything near "nobody else is scumhunting". I'm saying that other people aren't scumhunting by any means [Glyph, RR, Rajam, ...] so picking out Nickel on it is obviously selective, no matter what reason you actually have.

Eh, true enough, but irrelevant. The "nobody else" bit is an exaggeration on my part, but if "Other people are doing it too" is your only argument, that's pretty scummy. D1 in Megaman X mafia I picked out Circus for being on a bad wagon in a similar manner. Anyone want to guess what he flipped? (Hint: It starts with S, and rhymes with "come".)

If you want my reasoning for picking Nickel over the others, it was because he had been posting fairly frequently and a couple things he said struck me as odd, while others simply weren't around (and the actual time period was small enough that that's completely possible.)

Also, I have no intention of defending Nickel ... any "defense" I have for him is only the side-effect of me attacking you. And wow @ misinterpreting my attack alltogether. "He might not be hunting scum, but you shouldn't care" is the last thing I'd say ... I'm saying that he'd have an easier time hunting scum if you wouldn't step on his toes all the ****ing time or - y'know - just ****ing tell him to start hunting scum rather than throwing **** at him for not doing it.

Not buying it. Not at all. At the moment, defending Nickel and attacking me are close to the same thing, and you've also expressed dislike for T-block, the other guy after Nickel. Tell me, when someone's not contributing, what do you do? You call them out on it and tell them to contribute, LIKE I HAVE. Why on earth wouldn't I call him out on it just because he's a newbie?

The only thing you've achieved with your pressure is to scare him off from posting his thoughts so don't pretend you've been doing anything useful.

There's this thing about highly visible cases. They get reactions. I don't care if you buy it or not, the fact is, if I hadn't pressured nickel like that, you wouldn't be making this case on me, I wouldn't be making this case on you, half the discussion we have now simply wouldn't exist.

Stupidity has nothing to do with it. Sorry that not everybody buys your "I'm tunneling in every game ever when I'm town herp-a-derp" BS anymore. If you tunnel somebody that's NEVER a pro-town tell and I find it laughable that you try to clear you via self-meta that vouches for your inability to play just straight up pro-town.

Right. Because clearly the best scum play is to do something highly visible that everyone will see and comment on, plus many will disagree with. As a bonus you'll even get a decent chance of people starting a wagon on you, which is clearly what every mafia member needs. Lots of open information, plenty of clear stances, this is definitely the best game plan for anti-town factions. </sarcasm>

Even though I'm clearly aware of my own meta, to use the "He's tunneling so he's scum" logic on me is on the same level as calling Frozenflame scum for inactivity.

Are you even reading the argument between Nich and myself? As soon as somebody is found misconstruing somebody else's point as anti-town "it was his whole intention from the very beginning!" That's what I'm referring to when I say "WIFOM" muck ... you can continue this BS logic ad infinitum and you're always the good guy. If you use BS logic to make people look scummy then it's only to "gauge reactions from others".

You're making EXACTLY the same mistake I saw from you in your very first game, Gheb. You apply Occam's Razor to a ridiculous extent, cutting out many feasible possibilities in favor of what the most straight-forward brain-dead players would do.

Tell me, when you want to get reactions from players, what do you do? Go "HEY GUYS, HERE'S A CASE, REACT TO IT PLZ!". No, to get legitimate reactions, you HAVE to present it as a legitimate case. (In Time Travelers I took a lot of heat when I failed on that count and literally said I was pressure voting someone.)

Not to mention, I've been focusing a lot on OS's play recently to the point of paranoia, and let me inform you that he does that kind of thing all the time, and it WORKS. Consider that we'd had little aside from setup discussion up to that point, the amount of discussion that one of my cases ALWAYS produces, and suddenly my "WIFOM" motive is rather plausible.

@Red Ryu
Thoughts on Gheb, if you please?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Doing other stuff. Someone tl;dr him.

 

[Inferno3044]

You know who felt very pressured D1 in MMX mafia? Tery and he was town.

 

[Inferno3044]

As a new player, you get really nervous and don't really know why they are pressuring you. I literally didn't know the slightest thing about forum mafia in my first game and I was confused about RVS votes on me. I was like "what the hell? you guys are voting me for literally no reason." Then I learned what RVS was and came to understand it. And honestly anytime I was pressured as scum in that game I was very cool-headed. I talked so many actions over with JTB down to the exact wording of what I wanted to say from hammering a ML to my fake claim. Noobtown doesn't have that benefit.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

If you want my reasoning for picking Nickel over the others, it was because he had been posting fairly frequently

You do realize he had three posts at the time when T-Block accused him? How can you say that's "frequently?"

Retreading the same dirt, I see. May have to split at any second. Splitting replies into bits.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

You know who felt very pressured D1 in MMX mafia? Tery and he was town.

Right, and since that was one of the last games Nich played in I call BS on him "not remembering" townies being scared under pressure.

Also Nich, your "trap" or "attempt to gauge reactions" literally comes down to somebody calling out all the BS you're pulling off and when somebody finds you scummy for it you conclude that they are scum ... at least that's what's happening right now. The only kind of reasoning you're showing that lies between your pushing of Nickel and me supposedly being scum is that you "always" tunnel, which is not only not what I called you out on but also anti-town anyway.

 

[Overswarm]

Ryker - Red Ryu,
Nicholas1024- Gheb, Legolas, Ryker, Raziek,
Red Ryu- Rajam,
Rajam - NickelbackR0cks, Glyph,
NickelbackR0cks-
Raziek - T-block,
Gheb- Nicholas1024,

Gova, Seph, Inferno3044,

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is February 17th at 3:00 PM EST

 

[Nicholas1024]

Right, and since that was one of the last games Nich played in I call BS on him "not remembering" townies being scared under pressure.

What I meant is that scared to the point you're describing is just completely and hilariously unlikely. You never answered my point on that, just what kind of pressure prevents a townie from giving reads when doing that would stop the pressure?!?

Also Nich, your "trap" or "attempt to gauge reactions" literally comes down to somebody calling out all the BS you're pulling off and when somebody finds you scummy for it you conclude that they are scum ... at least that's what's happening right now. The only kind of reasoning you're showing that lies between your pushing of Nickel and me supposedly being scum is that you "always" tunnel, which is not only not what I called you out on but also anti-town anyway.

Psst, Gheb. You know what people often do in RVS? They focus on small stuff and pretend it's significant to get discussion going, and then base some reads off of said discussion. What part of you can't accept that that just MIGHT be a feasible explanation for what I was doing?!?

And I'm attacking you because your defense of Nickel (That he's scared and because the pressure is you know, PRESSURING him that I should stop doing it and there's other people that aren't scum-hunting so it's not fair to pick on him) is absolute garbage, and your attack on me doesn't make sense either. You claim to be so worried about Nickel being scared and frightened out of giving reads... why haven't you talked to him directly, given him some advice and boosted his confidence instead of just yelling at me? One would think that that would take care of the problem far more effectively. No, this strikes me as the actions of someone who knows Nickel's alignment, and is either trying to protect their scum buddy, or set me up to look bad when he gets mislynched.

And you called me out on pushing really hard on small stuff. That's usually what people mean when they accuse me of tunneling. Also, I don't tunnel blindly any more. Say what you will about my play style, but recently I've been getting results. I've made mistakes (going after T-block in time travelers), but I've refocused and caught scum. If you want to compare play quality, recently I've gotten the upper hand.

TLDR:
(Seriously guys, this isn't that long, and I would appreciate it if you'd read all of my posts. But for the Rykers out there...)

1. Gheb claims Nickel is scared and that pressuring him for reads will somehow prevent him from giving reads. This has no thread of logic to it at all.

2. Instead of reassuring Nickel and giving him some advice, which would be the logical solution to a lack of confidence, Gheb instead decides to attack me and insult me for pushing him. Now keep in mind that Gheb knows my meta. Just how often does an attack + insults actually change my mind on an issue? Usually it just makes me more determined.

3. Considering that my push started in semi-RVS, and wasn't even a hard push (by my standards anyway), as well as all the discussion it generated (which I knew from the outset would happen), believing I'm scum for said push doesn't make much sense, particularly when that is something I do as town pretty frequently.

4. Therefore, I conclude that Gheb's actions weren't because he was honestly worried about Nickel-town reacting badly OR because he really thinks I'm scum. No, I'm sure he knows Nickel's alignment. Whether he's trying to save a scum buddy or look good while destroying my credibility in the event of a mislynch, I'm not sure. But I've tried the possible townie motivations, and none of them fit.

@Inferno
Thanks for the info, by the way. In my early play it was the opposite, although I was pretty outspoken as newbie town, I was fairly timid as scum and tried to avoid the spotlight as much as possible (and that is what I generally see. Not that town can't be pressured, but getting the kind of pressure Gheb's suggesting out of two votes on a townie just doesn't happen.) Care to give your opinion on Gheb?