Final Fantasy Tactics Mafia: Game finally over! Raziek lynched, Town wins! Lego too!

[Orboknown]

@Nickel
That's fine and all, but I would like to see you post something pertaining to scum hunting. I'm rather wary about giving newbies too much slack after Inferno in Megaman X. For instance, what do you think about Xonar's first couple posts? Do they strike you as odd, or do you think the self preservation he's displaying is a null tell? Is there anyone you feel deserves your vote at the moment?

I don't think they show anything, as all he says is "im fine with people pressuring me, but i need to check with swords how he wants to play this".
I dont have anyone that explicitly deserves my vote for now, but no harm in keeping it where it is at for the moment.

 

[Orboknown]

@Nickel: Wow, that's what I get for skimming RVS.

Derp.

eh,stuff happens.
You're welcome.

 

[T-block]

Has its merits.

On one hand, it's something that we'll likely figure out on our own over time.

On the other, confirming that someone IS a dancer means they are NOT one of the other roles, which narrows the list of people to shoot, which is bad for concealing Town's beneficial roles.

I would advise against forcing such a thing into the light at this time. Perhaps if it is necessary to prove someone is NOT a dancer, but I don't think we should confirm that someone IS a dancer.

you really can't think of a reason why a townie would choose dancer? i can =\

i know it's hard in this game, but can we talk about something that isn't completely centralized around flavour now?

 

[Raziek]

Well, Nameless dance is a strong counter to scum abilities, but you're more likely to be targeted by Town, and there are better Level 2's, is all.

Did you follow Nickel's play in Newbie 16, T-Block?

 

[Raziek]

Oh of course, Dancer would confirm them Town, of course.

Unless scum also has a dancer, which isn't entirely out of the question.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

i'm curious, raz, why do you think it's a good idea to share who is not a dancer? not saying it's explicitly a bad thing, but i'd like to hear your reasoning

chemist has a restriction too, which is what ryker is referring to

That.

Also, isn't Theif's restriction inability to be protected? That was why I didn't pick it. :x

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Ah, right, so he probably took auto-potion then.

As for making the list:

Firstly, it's information anyone can discern on their own. Scum will share it with each other. Making it public knowledge significantly levels the playing field for Town.

Second, Dancer doesn't look terribly pro-town, given that it lowers the number of votes required to lynch a player, which while could cause scum lynches, is statistically more likely to cause a Town mislynch due to Town having other roles that reduce the number of votes to lynch.

What's to say that scum don't also have that? Do you have any information that suggests that they are role locked? OS specifically said that some people have a class selected for them or part of a class. I'm assuming that scum could easily have part of a class and also have an ability from the list and thereby receive the restriction.

 

[Inferno3044]

I'm rather wary about giving newbies too much slack after Inferno in Megaman X.

I didn't think I played bad in that :D

@Raziek - Why are you trying to analyze the setup. We don't know what everyone picked so there's a lot of questions that can be asked. I certainly have questions that I'm not sure are good ideas to ask.

@T-Block - How much benefit is there in knowing who is/isn't a dancer?

 

[Raziek]

@Inferno: It's better than ****ing around in RVS, obviously. *coughRajamcough*

If you try to ignore the setup in an Overswarm game, you're going to get ****ed.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Has its merits.

On one hand, it's something that we'll likely figure out on our own over time.

On the other, confirming that someone IS a dancer means they are NOT one of the other roles, which narrows the list of people to shoot, which is bad for concealing Town's beneficial roles.

I would advise against forcing such a thing into the light at this time. Perhaps if it is necessary to prove someone is NOT a dancer, but I don't think we should confirm that someone IS a dancer.

Then why did you do it at all?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Oh of course, Dancer would confirm them Town, of course.

Unless scum also has a dancer, which isn't entirely out of the question.

What's to say that scum don't also have that? Do you have any information that suggests that they are role locked? OS specifically said that some people have a class selected for them or part of a class. I'm assuming that scum could easily have part of a class and also have an ability from the list and thereby receive the restriction.

I'm so good.

 

[Raziek]

Because anyone who has confirmed they aren't dancer has already done so, and scum will now. Having Town know as well is beneficial.

 

[Raziek]

scum will know*

Aside from outing crumbs, Town needs as much information as it can get.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

If you try to ignore the setup in an Overswarm game, you're going to get ****ed.

Plus one.

Inferno, why is reading you ALWAYS a crap shoot?

 

[T-block]

Well, Nameless dance is a strong counter to scum abilities, but you're more likely to be targeted by Town, and there are better Level 2's, is all.

Did you follow Nickel's play in Newbie 16, T-Block?

no i didn't. is there anything i should know?

What's to say that scum don't also have that? Do you have any information that suggests that they are role locked? OS specifically said that some people have a class selected for them or part of a class. I'm assuming that scum could easily have part of a class and also have an ability from the list and thereby receive the restriction.

this. mod said nothing about whether scum could pick roles as well, so it's probably safer to assume they can.

I didn't think I played bad in that :D

@Raziek - Why are you trying to analyze the setup. We don't know what everyone picked so there's a lot of questions that can be asked. I certainly have questions that I'm not sure are good ideas to ask.

@T-Block - How much benefit is there in knowing who is/isn't a dancer?

at this point, none. it's true that the dancer seems more geared towards scum motivations, but as long as there exists town motivations, we shouldn't expose the information.

 

[Inferno3044]

@Inferno: It's better than ****ing around in RVS, obviously. *coughRajamcough*

If you try to ignore the setup in an Overswarm game, you're going to get ****ed.

If that's true, then I might as well ask a question on my mind: Chemist's auto-potion specifically states that it doesn't stop daykills and none of the choosable roles have daykills. Anyone wanna put an opinion on this? Another thing:

Vote: Raziek

Vote is solely to prove that I'm not a dancer.

 

[Nicholas1024]

I didn't think I played bad in that :D

You didn't, but there were signs I should have seen, like your role in the Frozen wagon and not joining the Circus one. (OS had you nailed as well, but I was too paranoid to listen at the time, and he died shortly afterwards. How is it everything he does looks scummy and yet sounds perfectly reasonable once he explains it?) I gave you a semi-clear for the doc claim when I really shouldn't have, and that came back to bite me.

And IMO all this setup analysis is simply not going to lead far. This is an OS setup, and trying to out-guess him usually ends up on you getting burned. Let's actually get to the novel thing known as scum hunting. There's been some stuff to comment on (Nickel, Xonar), let's hear your guys take on that (or perhaps even come up with a new point to discuss, though that might be too much to hope for.)

 

[Orboknown]

If that's true, then I might as well ask a question on my mind: Chemist's auto-potion specifically states that it doesn't stop daykills and none of the choosable roles have daykills. .

Then its either just OS clarifying things or we may have a DKing role. No way to know for sure unless it happens.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I fully support a Day Kill on Inferno right now. Answer his question with a bullet.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

And IMO all this setup analysis is simply not going to lead far. This is an OS setup, and trying to out-guess him usually ends up on you getting burned. Let's actually get to the novel thing known as scum hunting. There's been some stuff to comment on (Nickel, Xonar), let's hear your guys take on that (or perhaps even come up with a new point to discuss, though that might be too much to hope for.)

No reason not to cover basic information and correct incorrect assumptions.

 

[T-block]

at this point, none. it's true that the dancer seems more geared towards scum motivations, but as long as there exists town motivations, we shouldn't expose the information.

i suppose i should clarify that i don't think it's worth the effort trying to prevent that information from coming out - just that i don't see the need to actively extract it

raziek, my concern with your dancer info is not that scum will get information. i realize competent players will be able to piece that information together on their own. i just don't want you to be hiding behind setup analysis.

 

[Raziek]

Fair enough, T-Block.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14024252&postcount=693

I recommend reading that post.

Particularly, it was mentioned that Orbo was sheeping and being passive to avoid sticking his neck out. It's worth keeping an eye on, since he's still a reasonable new player.

 

[T-block]

read it

not sure why you're bringing it up at this point in time, but thanks x.x

 

[Raziek]

Simply to bring you up to speed a bit on a player you don't know, and one whom Nich is currently tunneling a bit.

I thought it was relevant enough. :x

 

[T-block]

can you flesh out your thoughts on him then?

my vote is on him too, and for a reason

 

[Raziek]

Well, my current thoughts are that he seems to be a biti of a yes man when it comes to interactions so far, and it did strike me wrong that he avoided your accusation.

I intended to allow you and Nich to pursue that avenue of questioning, since overwhelming someone rarely helps.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Isn't the point of pressure to provoke a reaction that can be more easily read, Raziek? I don't see why you'd hold back if you agreed with me/T-block on this.

 

[Raziek]

While true, I chose to hold back because overwhelming a townie by attacking from too many angles at once can cause them to flounder, which may produce reactions that can be MISCONSTRUED as scummy, and be used by scum for a mislynch. It happens.

I also intended to flesh out my reads on the two of you in the process, since TownNich is often quite apparent within a short period of time.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Isn't the point of pressure to provoke a reaction that can be more easily read, Raziek? I don't see why you'd hold back if you agreed with me/T-block on this.

Sometimes That being said, you have to know who and when to pressure in order to get a more easily interpreted response rather than simply doing it and getting a forced response that incriminates them.

Pressuring someone has nothing to do with lynching them and is often unnecessary. More on the subject when I'm not on a phone.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

By sometimes I mean that there are multiple reasons to pressure a player.

Off the top of my head, you can pressure a player to see their reaction under pressure. You can pressure a player to see the reactions of other players. You can pressure a player to secure a mislynch. You can pressure a player to fish for a role.

There's a few more things you can do, but those are in my best interest not to put in plain sight.

Don't be so short sighted that pressure is the go to solution and the only thing it's good for is to get more info.

 

[Inferno3044]

I think we've done enough mafia theory/ side conversations. Let's start scum hunting.

@mod - can you place the deadline in the title please?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Expand, Inferno. Explain why it's bad for this discussion to happen. What should we do as scum hunting is ****ing stupid to say. I still want you Day Vigged, and now.

 

[Gova]

Hey Ryker, we should be scum hunting.

can you flesh out your thoughts on him then?

my vote is on him too, and for a reason

And what is that reason? Is it the below?

vote: NickelbackR0cks

what say you to being useful as well as active, instead of putting up a facade of being active?

what's your previous mafia experience?

Because that I think that at that point in time it was way too early to accuse someone of faking activity. Maybe if it had been over a longer period of time but that clearly wasn't the case.

@Nich same question to you seeing as you think T-Block has a point about this.

 

[T-block]

i think there was enough pointing to it

Because i wanted to be active in some manner and that is the first thing that comes to mind. RVS doesn't interest me but at the same time i dont want that to be a reason for inactivity.

don't you?

 

[Gova]

How does that show him faking activity? I read that as him saying that he wants to be active. Anything else is just an assumption i.e he won't be useful. You could just as well assume that when he says he's going to be active he's going to be useful. Or you could just assume nothing.

 

[T-block]

it was his answer to "why did you ask this question"

"because i wanted to be active"

 

[Inferno3044]

Expand, Inferno. Explain why it's bad for this discussion to happen. What should we do as scum hunting is ****ing stupid to say. I still want you Day Vigged, and now.

If all we do is talk about how to play mafia and fundamentals of pressuring people and not actually playing the game then we are wasting time to find out who scum is. The person I want to look at is Rajam. He has shown all sorts of fluff and stupidity that atm I don't feel comfortable with him down the road if he continues this style.

Also just a heads up, I'm pretty sure I can't dayvig myself

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

vote: Rajam

Read all you guys stuff, I get that having so much setup info is really tempting to lean on but we don't know what kind of restrictions are going to be reused for scum or hell even for town who didn't get to pick their abilities. Don't see the purpose in forcing discussion to revolve around that (what with the 'if you don't look at the setup in OS games you're gunna get burned), could just be because its 2am and I'm super tired.

I want to kill off at LEAST one 'liability' player. Not necessarily today, willing to mill around until something better comes up. If someone can make good stuff happen tonight, that would be divine.

Jesus my brain isn't working very well. Here's a song. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAlztMvvNkk

Nighty night mafia game

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

No it isn't. Luxor in BiM4 was infinitely worse. Not to mention Adum in MMX.

SwordsBroken CCing the day vig as a survivor is pretty close to this if not surpassing it.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

That example is prior to the original bungle listed.

How about being relevant, RR?