Final Fantasy Tactics Mafia: Game finally over! Raziek lynched, Town wins! Lego too!

[~ Gheb ~]

I don't think we should necessarily have to stop considering the options that the set-up offers. OS made all classes some kind of double-edged swords one way or another so it might be a good idea to point out the flaws of a certain class so somebody who picked it is alerted of its downsides. As long as discussion about classes provides us info that isn't easily available for everbody we gain something from it. If the mafia can't make any use of the info then there's no harm in pointing out certain things either.

It also gives us something to talk about that isn't directly linked to RVS and that offers some good opportunities to hunt scum. One example is Inferno's remark about Daykills. It's something that's closer to rolefishing than to considering options. If you know it's not part of the class of a player - aka the part available to everybody - then you're making information available that not everybody has. That info should be kept quiet about until the player who knows about it thinks it's benefitial for the town to make it public.
This discussion about classes can help us find scum in another way as well but there haven't been enough people arguing yet and atm I'm fine with what I could make out of the discussion for now.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

vote: Rajam

[...]

I want to kill off at LEAST one 'liability' player.

Pot calling the kettle black.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I still don't like Nich for the record. He is really nitpicky in his arguments with Nickel and I don't really see what pro-town benefits he could hope to gain by the way he "pressures" him.

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

Looks like I'll still be your host for a while.

Vote: Nicholas

Don't like him at all. I concur with what Gheb said, and on top of that, he gives me one of the main scum tells.

"Man, it'll be scummy to lead a lynch, but I still have to do something. Better hyperfocus on specific things! That's consistent and might make others start a wagon I can join."

You get the picture.

Raziek is my superTown buddy. Ryker too, but I know he hates it when people say that, but he picked Auto-Potion so it's cool.

 

[Overswarm]

Ryker - Red Ryu,
Nicholas1024- Gheb, Legolas,
Red Ryu- Rajam,
Rajam - NickelbackR0cks, Glyph,
NickelbackR0cks- T-block, Nicholas1024,
Raziek - Inferno3044,

Raziek, Gova, Seph, Ryker,

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is February 17th at 3:00 PM EST

 

[Nicholas1024]

I still don't like Nich for the record. He is really nitpicky in his arguments with Nickel and I don't really see what pro-town benefits he could hope to gain by the way he "pressures" him.

Quotes, if you please. What exactly has Nickel done to contribute that makes my argument invalid?

@Gova
Aside from the point T-block mentioned, he did dodge T-block's question there, and hasn't made much of an effort to contribute since.

 

[Gova]

it was his answer to "why did you ask this question"

"because i wanted to be active"

So? If he's asking questions that produce content, does it matter? It also doesn't show how he's faking activity. I could understand if you meant he might plan to fake activity by asking questions just to be active, but you didn't say that.

@Gova
Aside from the point T-block mentioned, he did dodge T-block's question there, and hasn't made much of an effort to contribute since.

I asked what your opinion was T-Block calling him out for faking activity which in my opinion was too soon to accuse someone of. Lack of contribution or otherwise wasn't what I was asking about. Anyone could have called me out on lack of contribution but I'm like a ghost because people seem to forget that I exist.

 

[Raziek]

Ryker, if you could vote block one player, who would it be and why?

Same question for T-Block and Zonie.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Ryker, if you could vote block one player, who would it be and why?

Same question for T-Block and Zonie.

Vote block, ewwwww.

Inferno on principle.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Quotes, if you please. What exactly has Nickel done to contribute that makes my argument invalid?

Do you think your argument is solid enough to lynch based off of?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Quotes, if you please. What exactly has Nickel done to contribute that makes my argument invalid?

What argument do you even have? All of your posts that addressed Nickel in some way during the last two pages contained some reprimand about what he's saying. And usually it's a trivial matter you reprimand him for ... just give the kid some time before you shut him down like that. How can he get shit down if you bully him around like that all the time?

 

[Nicholas1024]

Do you think your argument is solid enough to lynch based off of?

I'd rather wait a bit before answering this, if you don't mind.

I asked what your opinion was T-Block calling him out for faking activity which in my opinion was too soon to accuse someone of. Lack of contribution or otherwise wasn't what I was asking about. Anyone could have called me out on lack of contribution but I'm like a ghost because people seem to forget that I exist.

I don't really mind fluff posting when there's actual content as well (for instance, my remarks about Megaman X and such have no real relevance to this game), but when he's posted fairly frequently, and yet hasn't contributed despite being specifically asked to, I think that qualifies as suspicious and fake activity.

 

[Nicholas1024]

What argument do you even have? All of your posts that addressed Nickel in some way during the last two pages contained some reprimand about what he's saying. And usually it's a trivial matter you reprimand him for ... just give the kid some time before you shut him down like that. How can he get shit down if you bully him around like that all the time?

It's not about what he's saying, it's about what he ISN'T saying. That is to say, there's no scum hunting. Just take a look at his posts from #48 onwards, and keep in mind that both T-block and I are specifically asking for a little scum hunting. And besides, it's not like my "bullying" could lessen his contributions any in the first place.

 

[Gova]

You do realize he had three posts at the time when T-Block accused him? How can you say that's "frequently?"

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

It's not about what he's saying, it's about what he ISN'T saying. That is to say, there's no scum hunting. Just take a look at his posts from #48 onwards, and keep in mind that both T-block and I are specifically asking for a little scum hunting. And besides, it's not like my "bullying" could lessen his contributions any in the first place.

Hahahaha!

Vote Nich

Dude, Gheb's comment still stands. You didn't even address the main thing in it.

 

[Nicholas1024]

You do realize he had three posts at the time when T-Block accused him? How can you say that's "frequently?"

Except he's kept posting. The original vote wasn't terribly serious, considering there weren't a ton of things to go on, and that looked as good a route as any. Considering that he still hasn't said much and posted a handful of more times, I'm comfortable keeping it there for the moment.

@Ryker
And here I thought you'd understand what I was doing. Ah well.

@Anyone
By the way, how do you do the collapsible spoiler box tags? When my walls of text inevitably come along later, it might be convenient to use those to clutter up the thread a bit less (and ensure that people read the parts of my posts I want them to.)

 

[Gova]

??????????

That's why I'm asking you about this. Do you think T-Block was justified in calling him out for faking activity when he only had 3 posts at that point in time? Consider how early into the game this was when it happened. Timeframe is important.

 

[Nicholas1024]

@Gova

Considering it was basically RVS and Nickel posted this (after asking Ryker who he should trust with his vote and being questioned about it):

Because i wanted to be active in some manner and that is the first thing that comes to mind. RVS doesn't interest me but at the same time i dont want that to be a reason for inactivity.

I think T-block's vote was acceptable. Not exactly award winning EE case material, but a good starting point.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

@Anyone
By the way, how do you do the collapsible spoiler box tags? When my walls of text inevitably come along later, it might be convenient to use those to clutter up the thread a bit less (and ensure that people read the parts of my posts I want them to.)

["collapse"]["/collapse"]

 

[Raziek]

Nich, did you miss the part where he said he hates RVS? He's new, and I feel the same way about RVS. Just because he voiced it doesn't mean it's scummy, and you are on his balls far too hard about this.

You're taking this point too far.

 

[Orboknown]

@nich-the reason i said what i did(that i didnt wanna be inactive) is because I really do dislike inactivity in general.Not just in mafia, but in life as well. I said that i didnt like RVS but would try to be active regardless of that fact. Sorry i didn't make the message clear enough.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Raziek, that's not what I'm on him for. If he'd posted after that and said "Alright, I'll try to help get discussion going, here's what I've noticed so far, I think X is scummy because *stuff*, vote: player name", I'd have dropped the vote right away. He hasn't. What's happened here is that I pushed him lightly to see his reaction and get him to contribute. He hasn't done so, so I'm pushing him harder now.

@Nickel
I really don't care much about what happens in RVS. What I'm currently voting you for is that despite my (and T-block's) pushing, you haven't given so much as a scum read just yet.

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

I can support Orboknown pressure. He's probably piss-easy to read.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Was that post just now Xonar or Sworddancer?

 

[Orboknown]

Sup guys. I kinda wanna talk to Sword some more but I'm cool with starting off.

Besides that, I'm not one to drop an opportunity. It will make it easier for me to scum-hunt if less people are voting me and pressuring me.

me

If you lied I'll have to investigate deeper into your slot.

Vote: Rajam I know your meta buddy. I'd be cool with you being dead, you'll be mr. Catchup all game regardless.

Ok, so Legolas takes the "im not gonna vote you all D1" offer from Rajam, then proceeds to vote him in the same post. Feels odd to me, but that might be nothing.

vote: Rajam
I want to kill off at LEAST one 'liability' player. Not necessarily today, willing to mill around until something better comes up. If someone can make good stuff happen tonight, that would be divine.

And glyph says he wants to kill off "a liability player", regardless of alignment. I understand the reasoning he might say that, but don't agree that that helps town much.

@Nickel
I really don't care much about what happens in RVS. What I'm currently voting you for is that despite my (and T-block's) pushing, you haven't given so much as a scum read just yet.

Does this help appease you nich?

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

Was that post just now Xonar or Sworddancer?

(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Nicklebackisgreat, how does it NOT benefit town? If we hit scum, horray scum is dead! If we hit town, horray, scum won't have a puppet to control in Lylo.

Wins all around

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Glyph, if I were to use my one-shot neighborizer on you, would I regret it, or would you play?

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

I'm going to play regardless but am always down to make friends

 

[T-block]

vote: Raziek

let's dance ^_^

Well, my current thoughts are that he seems to be a biti of a yes man when it comes to interactions so far, and it did strike me wrong that he avoided your accusation.

I intended to allow you and Nich to pursue that avenue of questioning, since overwhelming someone rarely helps.

why are you being soooo open about everything? do these things need to be said? this doesn't feel like you at all. why are you putting so much effort into defending nickel instead of letting nich do whatever it is he wants?

at this stage of the game, i think the effect of a voteblock is negligible, so i wouldn't even be able to use it towards some sort of goal, so i'm not sure how to answer that question. i might pick ryker just so he doesn't pull some utrick'd stuff =P

 

[T-block]

Nicklebackisgreat, how does it NOT benefit town? If we hit scum, horray scum is dead! If we hit town, horray, scum won't have a puppet to control in Lylo.

Wins all around

are you going to protect me and then claim doc? =p

anyways, you don't have the fact that you replaced to excuse yourself this time, and i know you don't actually hate anyone in this game that much, so you're not going to be allowed to spend the whole Day pushing a "town liability"

just fyi

 

[T-block]

Ok, so Legolas takes the "im not gonna vote you all D1" offer from Rajam, then proceeds to vote him in the same post. Feels odd to me, but that might be nothing.

And glyph says he wants to kill off "a liability player", regardless of alignment. I understand the reasoning he might say that, but don't agree that that helps town much.

Does this help appease you nich?

nice, you just gave a summary of two posts

analyse the motivation behind glyph's proposal. do you think it's more likely to come from a town mindset or a scum mindset?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Nicklebackisgreat, how does it NOT benefit town? If we hit scum, horray scum is dead! If we hit town, horray, scum won't have a puppet to control in Lylo.

Wins all around

So why shouldn't we lynch you right now?

why are you being soooo open about everything? do these things need to be said? this doesn't feel like you at all. why are you putting so much effort into defending nickel instead of letting nich do whatever it is he wants?

Terrible post. Why single out Raziek for something I and to a lesser extent Ryker have done as well? Not only that but you also imply that Nich doing "whatever he wants" is a good thing when all his "pressure" has achieved was scaring Nickel from actually coming out with his reads. How is that productive? Nickel wouldn't dare posting his thoughts on scumhunting before Ryker / Raz / I started to question Nich's way of "pressuring" him ... if anything this course of action proves that Nich should NOT be allowed to do "whatever he wants."

FoS T-Block

 

[~ Gheb ~]

It's not about what he's saying, it's about what he ISN'T saying. That is to say, there's no scum hunting. Just take a look at his posts from #48 onwards, and keep in mind that both T-block and I are specifically asking for a little scum hunting. And besides, it's not like my "bullying" could lessen his contributions any in the first place.

Dodge harder, please? My point was that he's obviously insecure about posting his thoughts when you **** in his face left and right for whatever he's saying ... that point wasn't that hard to understand but you're not responding to it.

I know you think he's not scumhunting [not even accounting for the fact that other people aren't scumhunting either] but THAT DOESN'T JUSTIFY WHAT YOU'RE DOING AT ALL. All you do is continuing to scare him away from posting his thoughts ... which - conveniently - allows you to continue your argument that he's not hunting scum.

Then again, what you do can hardly be considered "scumhunting" either.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Nich, who are the most suspicious people in the game to you right now?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Dude, Gheb's comment still stands. You didn't even address the main thing in it.

Except he's kept posting. The original vote wasn't terribly serious, considering there weren't a ton of things to go on, and that looked as good a route as any. Considering that he still hasn't said much and posted a handful of more times, I'm comfortable keeping it there for the moment.

@Ryker
And here I thought you'd understand what I was doing. Ah well.

@Anyone
By the way, how do you do the collapsible spoiler box tags? When my walls of text inevitably come along later, it might be convenient to use those to clutter up the thread a bit less (and ensure that people read the parts of my posts I want them to.)

Dodge harder, please? My point was that he's obviously insecure about posting his thoughts when you **** in his face left and right for whatever he's saying ... that point wasn't that hard to understand but you're not responding to it.

Don't worry. He's dodged that too.

 

[Nicholas1024]

@Gheb
Well, for starters, there's you. I don't like your interactions with Nickel any more than you like mine.

1. You're obviously trying to get me to stop pressuring him because you think he'll react badly to said pressure. What's your reasoning that he's town? Let's take a look.

Dodge harder, please? My point was that he's obviously insecure about posting his thoughts when you **** in his face left and right for whatever he's saying ... that point wasn't that hard to understand but you're not responding to it.

You claim that he's a newbie scared to post his thoughts... something I have NEVER seen from newbie town, although it's not exactly uncommon in newbie SCUM (and Raziek even linked us to some post game commentary revealing that he sheeps and agrees with people as scum). And then there's the classic

I know you think he's not scumhunting [not even accounting for the fact that other people aren't scumhunting either] but THAT DOESN'T JUSTIFY WHAT YOU'RE DOING AT ALL. All you do is continuing to scare him away from posting his thoughts ... which - conveniently - allows you to continue your argument that he's not hunting scum.

"Nobody else is scumhunting either, so you can't single him out!" That is not good reasoning. I'm not claiming my case is some bulletproof masterpiece, it's not. However, "He might not be scum hunting, but you shouldn't care" is not a defense.

2. After that little display, we have your attack on me. What don't you like me for? That I'm tunneling Nickel. Because I obviously never, EVER tunnel as town, and even if I did, it's just so OBVIOUS that I'm dead set on Nickel being scum so early and there's just NO CHANCE I might be gauging other player's reactions as well. (Hint: The previous sentence was heavily sarcastic.) I know (alright, after Megaman X, I'm 90% sure) that you're not that stupid, Gheb. Even if my case was completely worthless, it's produced some nice reactions from you guys that I can follow up on, and that's what I was hoping for from the start.

Unvote.
Vote: Gheb


@Ryker
There's not much to say to "He's a scared kid, and you should quit pressuring him because he's panicking!". If you want, you can go dig up a face palm picture and consider that my official response.

 

[Orboknown]

nice, you just gave a summary of two posts

analyse the motivation behind glyph's proposal. do you think it's more likely to come from a town mindset or a scum mindset?

On my end i think it would be something scum would say, but from another POV i can see it being a "we should get rid of the weak links to strengthen town." kind of thing.
That said, i don't agree with lynching townies because they might not be the best becaus that actually helps scum more than town when it comes to wincons.(assuming mafia wincon is to get numerical parity or superiority over town), So im going to consider it something scummy.

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

Orbo, this is what I want you to do;

Make a read list including every single player. If you have vibes, search specific posts where the vibes come from, include them. Explain your reads. I want no nulls, leans are allowed. If you TRULY feel you need to put a null there, I want you to say so and I'll ask you a read of them again later. I will question all your nulls though. All of them, so be ready to defend your opinion.
Also, add how valid your reads are. Strong reads, soft reads. All that sort of stuff.

 

[Orboknown]

alright, give ma a few minutes to do this cuz i want to read everything over real quick.
and i might go watch tv in a minute.