Falco+ ~Hands Off My Prey!~ Under Construction! Upgrading to 7.0

[5ive]

I loved the shine on the 5/5 build. I saw it as being OP'd, but your post really convinced me that Falco needs something like that. I'm totally for it.

 

[BEES]

I think either the shine or the dtilt needs to be buffed. I would like to see a video of this experimental shine. I'm up for it as long as it keeps Falco relatively different from Fox and Wolf, and it's not just Falco's reflector from Melee again.

 

[Dan_X]

I loved the shine on the 5/5 build. I saw it as being OP'd, but your post really convinced me that Falco needs something like that. I'm totally for it.

Thanks for your support 5ive!

I think either the shine or the dtilt needs to be buffed. I would like to see a video of this experimental shine. I'm up for it as long as it keeps Falco relatively different from Fox and Wolf, and it's not just Falco's reflector from Melee again.

I don't think it's necessary to buff the dtilt. Perhaps if the shine wasn't buffed... however, as I said, nothing needs to be buffed with the addition of the new shine.

His new shine works as a great way to punish the enemy for stupid mistakes-- such as rising wayyy up over the ledge. The new shine is actually an effective edge guarder, where as the old shine was lame.

His shine works nothing like it did in Melee--- this change complements Falco well. It makes his shine a nice offensive way to punish mistakes, in addition, it definately defines Falco. He's definately unique from Fox and Wolf.

I'll get some videos up in time. I don't have a capture card yet.

 

[storm92]

Of course I'll support, no problem.
If there's anything I can do, let me know, whether it be on the specific lobbying for a shine change or in general for B+ Falco.
I'm up for helping.

 

[King Funk]

I wish I could help you guys out in anyway but I have the PAL 08/05 nightly build, and they only have the NTSC old nightly builds on the website. Well anyway, the very short time I used the buffed shine felt really awesome and I really wish it came back. I'll support as well.

PS: Orca, I already sent you an e-mail with part 1 of the music... ^^

 

[IC3R]

+1 for funky Shine buff!!!

 

[King Funk]

+1 for funky Shine buff!!!

Are you my funk homie?

I'm thinking of adding shine combos in our official combo video, as a way of convincing the haxxorrz to bring it back. We musn't whine about the shine, we must rhyme with the shine. ^^

 

[IC3R]

Are you my funk homie?

I'm thinking of adding shine combos in our official combo video, as a way of convincing the haxxorrz to bring it back. We musn't whine about the shine, we must rhyme with the shine. ^^

Word, brotha...

If I could sneak in a little time, I'd be happy to share some clips.
You'll see the beauty of my rhymes, my magic fingertips...

(That sounded sooo wrong...)

 

[King Funk]

Word, brotha...

If I could sneak in a little time, I'd be happy to share some clips.
You'll see the beauty of my rhymes, my magic fingertips...

(That sounded sooo wrong...)

Show me your moves,
I'll add the groove!

(even worse lol)

 

[DarkDragoon]

I really liked the buffed shine in the nightly build a few days back.

But I dunno why they took it back out o.o...
-DD

 

[camelot]

shine buff plz

It was cool, it was fun, it was unique. It made the attack useful. Why take it out?

 

[Andarel]

They took it out in part because they (mainly Shanus and the few more reasonable people heading the B+ dev team) decided it was too divisive among the community and were playing it conservative.

However, that means if a large portion of Falcos decide they want it in (well over 50%), the best argument for taking it out is basically automatically negated.

 

[Caleb Wolfbrand]

I love the shine buff. I main falco in B+ and I was upset about it's removal. I have yet to see a GOOD argument for the removal side of things.

 

[Shining Aquas]

I don't main Falco. Hell, I don't even like dealing with Falco due to being Kirby and getting stomped around, and this is all I have to say regarding making his shine better in the methods described:

Although I think his current shine is already really good, and that it is in my opinion far more annoying than any laser antics, I actually am in favor of the shine buff, mostly because it will give Falco players a completely new way to play the character. Yes, I imagine that laser spam will always be a mainstay, but adding a shine launch for combos might make for some interesting battles and even better combos.

So, yeah try it out and see what you can get out of it. You might need to nerf the speed of the shiner slightly though, as a launcher going that quickly is just full of ****.

 

[Dan_X]

Of course I'll support, no problem.
If there's anything I can do, let me know, whether it be on the specific lobbying for a shine change or in general for B+ Falco.
I'm up for helping.

That's great to hear (read) Storm! What we need to do is get things set in motion, we need to get the buff back in the next plussery update-- the next nightly build. Many Falco mains didn't have a chance to test this change as it was added one evening and gone the next day. Anyway, I don't think Falco needs any buffs beyond the new shine (and the already implemented utilt buff). As for lobbying, we need to push the agenda. We need to get more people interested in the new shine. The more support the better! After all, support is all we need to get the new shine back. Thus far we've received quite a bit of support, so with that said, thank you everyone for your support!

I wish I could help you guys out in anyway but I have the PAL 08/05 nightly build, and they only have the NTSC old nightly builds on the website. Well anyway, the very short time I used the buffed shine felt really awesome and I really wish it came back. I'll support as well.

PS: Orca, I already sent you an e-mail with part 1 of the music... ^^

Yeah man, I wish you could experience the new shine in gameplay as I do with NTSC. Too bad they don't have a PAL version of the past releases!

Okay, so I just got the song that you sent via the e-mail! Wow! Pretty awesome! Impressive! Seriously man, I don't know how you did this, but you're pretty darn talented! I'm quite excited to have the opportunity to sport custom music for the Falco combo video! I don't think any other character has music directly made by the community for their combo videos! This is truly a nice touch! Thanks so very much for this! I'm looking forward to future works of yours!

God, now I just wish I had my capture card-- I'd expect that it'll arrive within the next three days. With that said, for those of you reading, this is not exclusively my Falco+ combo video, this is a community Falco+ combo video! Please feel free to submit anything you've got for the video!

Thanks again King Funk!

+1 for funky Shine buff!!!

Yay! :D

I really liked the buffed shine in the nightly build a few days back.

But I dunno why they took it back out o.o...
-DD

Me too! It was gone before many had a chance to even try it out. THanks for your support!

shine buff plz

It was cool, it was fun, it was unique. It made the attack useful. Why take it out?

Exactly, and to that end, it wasn't a broken move. It's still just as avoidable / blockable as it was before... however now connecting with it is actually benefiting.

However, that means if a large portion of Falcos decide they want it in (well over 50%), the best argument for taking it out is basically automatically negated.

Exactly. That's why we need to showcase our support for the shine buff! With that, are you in?

Thanks for your input! ;D

I love the shine buff. I main falco in B+ and I was upset about it's removal. I have yet to see a GOOD argument for the removal side of things.

Thanks for your support TRC! Yeah, I was watching live streaming from a ECRC Tournament in New Jersey and I saw a Falco vs Peach match up, one that I'm quite familiar with as my friend mains Peach. Falco was 3 stocked (as they were only playing with 3 stock instead of 4 because of time restraints)... I'm not saying he's outright bad. However, he has quite a bit to take on in Brawl+, with the other characters being much better natural comboers. Me being familiar with the match up would have fared much better, also his Falco lacked in some areas, such as no B-reversed lasers, DACUSing, and Bair comboing. Either way, I couldn't help but realize how nice the shine would have been to offset some of Peach's easy approaches.

I don't main Falco. Hell, I don't even like dealing with Falco due to being Kirby and getting stomped around, and this is all I have to say regarding making his shine better in the methods described:

Although I think his current shine is already really good, and that it is in my opinion far more annoying than any laser antics, I actually am in favor of the shine buff, mostly because it will give Falco players a completely new way to play the character. Yes, I imagine that laser spam will always be a mainstay, but adding a shine launch for combos might make for some interesting battles and even better combos.

So, yeah try it out and see what you can get out of it. You might need to nerf the speed of the shiner slightly though, as a launcher going that quickly is just full of ****.

Hmm, too be honest, Kirby can be a fairly difficult matchup for Falco. A) he can copy Falco's lasers and spam them. B) He's short. He's not quite as allficted by other characters as he's shorter and can avoid them more easily. Crouching alone negates being hit.

However, I appreciate your support! Nerfing the speed of his shine might sound like a good idea, however, it would actually destroy the purpose of the move. Here's why. His shine won't land any easier than it did before, as oftentimes the enemy blocks before it connects. It's generally easy to block. The new shine makes for a great way to punish the enemy for foolish mistakes. For example, if the enemy rises up over the edge, not spacing their recovery carefully he can catch them with the new shine, and pull them in for a combo. Also, say they time a smash wrong, you can take advantage of any cool down to initiate his shine and hopefully catch them in time to punish them. Slowing it down would ruin what it's good for. It's not necessary. It should be an effective way at punishing the enemy.

Oh, and you're right, this will definately give Falco more expression with which to put to use on the battlefield. You can expect more than just spamming with this change.

 

[Andarel]

Orca -
I don't play Falco at all, actually (well, I used to. But not anymore.), and to be honest I'm just going to go with the majority. My mindset is that the WBR should play it conservative, so all I want is that the changes made are widely accepted and not fought over.

 

[Dan_X]

Orca -
I don't play Falco at all, actually (well, I used to. But not anymore.), and to be honest I'm just going to go with the majority. My mindset is that the WBR should play it conservative, so all I want is that the changes made are widely accepted and not fought over.

Thanks for the honesty / input! :D

 

[leafgreen386]

However, I appreciate your support! Nerfing the speed of his shine might sound like a good idea, however, it would actually destroy the purpose of the move. Here's why. His shine won't land any easier than it did before, as oftentimes the enemy blocks before it connects. It's generally easy to block. The new shine makes for a great way to punish the enemy for foolish mistakes. For example, if the enemy rises up over the edge, not spacing their recovery carefully he can catch them with the new shine, and pull them in for a combo. Also, say they time a smash wrong, you can take advantage of any cool down to initiate his shine and hopefully catch them in time to punish them. Slowing it down would ruin what it's good for. It's not necessary. It should be an effective way at punishing the enemy.

Actually, the shine change comes with doubled startup (4 frames to 8) and 2/3 of its previous cooldown. So while it's easier to avoid now due to having more time before the hitbox comes out, the reduced cooldown makes it so he can actually combo off of it when he hits with it (before we sped up the cooldown falco could get hit before he could act) and makes it less punishable overall.

 

[Arkaether]

If it counts for anything, I'm supporting the shine change. Even though I generally dislike major changes (Sonic's Usmash, Wolf's shine), I'm actually in favor of this one because falco's shine is essentially worthless. While I believe that Sonic's Usmash and Wolf's shine are fine unaltered and don't need anything changed, I support major changes in worthless moves such as falco's shine or mario's fludd.

 

[BEES]

I support some sort of change. Still haven't seen this one personally, but I do think giving more emphasis to underused special attacks could be good for the variety of the game, and Falco is falling behind in the new codesets anyway.

I guess I'll throw my hat in and support this.

 

[Thunderhorse+]

I just threw a few long paragraphs into the plussery discussion on the merits of Falco's Shine (and other characters' unique buffs). If anyone would like to read it, it should be the latest post in the plussery discussion as of this posting.

Needless to say I am very supportive of Falco's Shine buff, and hope for it's speedy return into the plussery codeset. Even if we don't get Falco's Shine buff back, thank you to everyone who is supporting this idea. Without the support of people like you, the plussery would not even be considering letting the Falco Shine buff come back.

Also a small mistake in the paragraph you quoted me on Orca:

(as unlikely at the goal may be, which is why we aim for simply tournament viable. Doesn't mean we should allow as many characters as possible to be Top Tier so long as they don't break or homogenize the game).

It should read "Doesn't mean we shouldn't allow as many characters as possible to be Top Tier so long as they don't break or homogenize the game". It's not your fault, it's just a silly typo I made, but it comes across as giving the wrong message to users who read your 2nd post .

 

[King Funk]

Okay, so I just got the song that you sent via the e-mail! Wow! Pretty awesome! Impressive! Seriously man, I don't know how you did this, but you're pretty darn talented! I'm quite excited to have the opportunity to sport custom music for the Falco combo video! I don't think any other character has music directly made by the community for their combo videos! This is truly a nice touch! Thanks so very much for this! I'm looking forward to future works of yours!

God, now I just wish I had my capture card-- I'd expect that it'll arrive within the next three days. With that said, for those of you reading, this is not exclusively my Falco+ combo video, this is a community Falco+ combo video! Please feel free to submit anything you've got for the video!

Thanks again King Funk!

No problems, man, it was a pleasure to make. I am almost done with the second part of the music which follows directly the first (although very different). Once I'm done with the whole project, I will send it to you entirely (all parts) with credits/explanations (program/instruments/effects used) and all.

I hope the other communities picks the idea of custom music up as well, we could have a competition. ^^

 

[Revven]

Here's a Falco combo video I found (also posted in the video thread stickied at the top).

AoiTsuki - a Falco Combo Video by Tsukizukun - Brawl+ 4.0

Thought you Falco mains might miss it if it wasn't posted here.

 

[Dan_X]

Actually, the shine change comes with doubled startup (4 frames to 8) and 2/3 of its previous cooldown. So while it's easier to avoid now due to having more time before the hitbox comes out, the reduced cooldown makes it so he can actually combo off of it when he hits with it (before we sped up the cooldown falco could get hit before he could act) and makes it less punishable overall.

Yeah, that;s what Shanus had told me, though I didn't see it in the changes. Maybe I overlooked it. Anyway, what I meant was it shouldn't be any slower than the new shine already is. Not that it's outright slow, but right now it's perfect. It's just fast enough to punish enemies for mistakes. In addition, as you said, it's easier for the enemy to block because of it's slowed down startup.

If it counts for anything, I'm supporting the shine change. Even though I generally dislike major changes (Sonic's Usmash, Wolf's shine), I'm actually in favor of this one because falco's shine is essentially worthless. While I believe that Sonic's Usmash and Wolf's shine are fine unaltered and don't need anything changed, I support major changes in worthless moves such as falco's shine or mario's fludd.

Thanks for your support!

I support some sort of change. Still haven't seen this one personally, but I do think giving more emphasis to underused special attacks could be good for the variety of the game, and Falco is falling behind in the new codesets anyway.

I guess I'll throw my hat in and support this.

Thanks for your support. The fact that many people haven't even experienced this change is part of the problem-- I wish they didn't take it away so fast.

I just threw a few long paragraphs into the plussery discussion on the merits of Falco's Shine (and other characters' unique buffs). If anyone would like to read it, it should be the latest post in the plussery discussion as of this posting.

Needless to say I am very supportive of Falco's Shine buff, and hope for it's speedy return into the plussery codeset. Even if we don't get Falco's Shine buff back, thank you to everyone who is supporting this idea. Without the support of people like you, the plussery would not even be considering letting the Falco Shine buff come back.

It should read "Doesn't mean we shouldn't allow as many characters as possible to be Top Tier so long as they don't break or homogenize the game". It's not your fault, it's just a silly typo I made, but it comes across as giving the wrong message to users who read your 2nd post .

First, I fixed the typo, I had been reading the way you initially intended all along because I knew what you meant, so.. my bad too. lol. Also, thanks for bringing it up in the plussery!

No problems, man, it was a pleasure to make. I am almost done with the second part of the music which follows directly the first (although very different). Once I'm done with the whole project, I will send it to you entirely (all parts) with credits/explanations (program/instruments/effects used) and all.

I hope the other communities picks the idea of custom music up as well, we could have a competition. ^^

Awesome! Sounds good, can't wait to hear it! ;D

Here's a Falco combo video I found (also posted in the video thread stickied at the top).

AoiTsuki - a Falco Combo Video by Tsukizukun - Brawl+ 4.0

Thought you Falco mains might miss it if it wasn't posted here.

This is a nice video, it show cases much of what I do. There are however many things he did differently from myself. For example, I make use of the DACUS, I don't think he did... maybe I just missed it. I also make strong use of B-reversed SHDLs for approaches / spacing-- which I don't think he did. Still nice though.

One thing you may notice is that many of those combos were techable. Now I'm not saying that that Falco was bad, he was definately skilled. I'm just saying that in general almost all of Falco's combos are techable (aside from Bair chains). The enemy didn't tech in the videos, they could have. He made good use of the downair to jab reset, which I love by the way. He did start to do this, though I put far more emphasis on it when I play, he should have used Bair more. If you space right you can carry the enemy with a Bair then spike them.

Thanks for posting that here!

 

[Bakuryu]

Does anyone have this Shine buff in a video? It would be nice to see it in action without have to load up a new codeset although I will if I have to. Based on what I've heard it sounds like a great idea and it fits Falco if you ask me as his shine was originally unique in the fact that it shot you upward in melee.

 

[shanus]

If I can find 3 lines in the frame speed code to dedicate to falco's shine, I can maybe toss it in another set for testing.

 

[IC3R]

But seriously, the Shine has use with the reverse knockback, as well as the reduced cooldown.

 

[King Funk]

Done with the music! I'm sending it to you by e-mail, Orca... ^^

I will soon post it on YouTube with a download link to share it with the whole smash community.

 

[Dan_X]

Shine Buff has been added! Please continue to show your support!

Now that the shine buff is back in the plussery, please continue to support it, get anyone you can to help us support it! We want it to stay! We may have to fight for it!

Thanks guys!

Does anyone have this Shine buff in a video? It would be nice to see it in action without have to load up a new codeset although I will if I have to. Based on what I've heard it sounds like a great idea and it fits Falco if you ask me as his shine was originally unique in the fact that it shot you upward in melee.

I don't have any vids of it because I don't have my capture card yet, I'll be working to get some videos of it up asap. However, now that it's officially part of the Plussery you can try it anyway!

If I can find 3 lines in the frame speed code to dedicate to falco's shine, I can maybe toss it in another set for testing.

Thanks man!

But seriously, the Shine has use with the reverse knockback, as well as the reduced cooldown.

Yes, it's very useful! It adds a ton of depth to Falco! It's exciting!

Done with the music! I'm sending it to you by e-mail, Orca... ^^

I will soon post it on YouTube with a download link to share it with the whole smash community.

Awesome man! I just got it! Sounds awesome! I can't wait to use it! :D

Good work!

p.s. are you working on any more? ;D Not that you have to, I'd imagine it's a ton of work!

Thanks again Funk!

 

[IC3R]

I wonder if I'd be able to get some Falco stuff recorded tomorrow. Anyone here who can download the BIN files from like MegaUpload or mediafire, save them on an SD card, and watch the replay on their Wii? I don't have capture card capabilities just yet, so I would need someone else to do it for me

 

[Dan_X]

I wonder if I'd be able to get some Falco stuff recorded tomorrow. Anyone here who can download the BIN files from like MegaUpload or mediafire, save them on an SD card, and watch the replay on their Wii? I don't have capture card capabilities just yet, so I would need someone else to do it for me

I can do it, make sure to use the latest plussery.

However, as of now the plussery nightly build has been recalled to fix some big bugs. Use the latest version when it is posted sometime tonight or 2morrow. We have to have the same stuff on our SD cards, that way I can record it for you!

Thanks!

 

[IC3R]

I can do it, make sure to use the latest plussery.

However, as of now the plussery nightly build has been recalled to fix some big bugs. Use the latest version when it is posted sometime tonight or 2morrow. We have to have the same stuff on our SD cards, that way I can record it for you!

Thanks!

So 5/11 set is kinda buggy? We can't have that!
I'll be checking up for a new set...

 

[Dan_X]

So 5/11 set is kinda buggy? We can't have that!
I'll be checking up for a new set...

5/11 is good. Initially, Shanus put out the 5/11 set and then took it off for a few hours because he had some problems with it. It's back, and bug free. Use that one!

 

[leafgreen386]

5/11 is good. Initially, Shanus put out the 5/11 set and then took it off for a few hours because he had some problems with it. It's back, and bug free. Use that one!

Eh, not perfectly bug free. A number of things are still borked, but it's playable, at least. We'll try to get out a fixed set tomorrow.

 

[Dan_X]

Eh, not perfectly bug free. A number of things are still borked, but it's playable, at least. We'll try to get out a fixed set tomorrow.

Oh okay. Thanks leaf. You're so informative, I love it. ;P

 

[leafgreen386]

Oh okay. Thanks leaf. You're so informative, I love it. ;P

I do what I can.

 

[King Funk]

The shine buff seems to have been re-added, but the PAL version of the nightly build hasn't released yet. I can't wait... ^^

 

[Hostility]

The shine is fine as is, it is a good keep away tool , and honestly, falco is good enough as is and probably needs to be toned down rather than getting buffs anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twtZ_1WsoNI&feature=channel_page

There are a few applications for shine in this video, normally I use it after jab combos, or a soft dair hit or on various places where I might get punished for something.

 

[BEES]

The shine looked pretty useless in that video, to be honest. Every time you used it, it was superfluous and you put yourself at risk for no reward.

It looks like you are the superior player in that matchup. Notice how limited your approach was against the Metaknight? It was very predictable. Dairs and Bairs aplenty. He shielded and spotdodged nearly all of them. You had to rely on mindgames and accidents much more than your opponent to get a hit in, and your follow-ups were not as safe or as damaging.

 

[Dan_X]

The shine is fine as is, it is a good keep away tool , and honestly, falco is good enough as is and probably needs to be toned down rather than getting buffs anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twtZ_1WsoNI&feature=channel_page

There are a few applications for shine in this video, normally I use it after jab combos, or a soft dair hit or on various places where I might get punished for something.

I don't agree. The shine didn't offer much reward. Not only is it very easy to block after any jab combo, if it's not blocked it's because the enemy didn't shield-- they seemingly always can before it connects, but it doesn't help Falco much. Spacing? Okay so if it connects it pushes the enemy away, if they WILLINGLY roll into you you'll likely be rewarded for using the shine, though most won't. It is actually a pretty poor spacing move because of the end lag. It's so easy to dodge / block that you get punished every time you try to use it for "spacing." By watching your match, I'd say his spacing tool is his lasers-- which is no surprise. Unlike his old shine, his Lasers actually are good for spacing.

The new shine is even more difficult to land, though it's much more rewarding than before. Nothing needs to be toned down with Falco, that said, he doesn't need anything beyond his utilt buff and the new shine. He's fine as is. The new shine opens up a world of opportunities, now there's far more to learn.

From the looks of it now, I'd have to say that single hopped shine combos will become pretty important to Falco. That is, in a hop, short or full, he uses the shine to connect with the enemy, pulling them back in, then using your second jump to aerial attack them. There's a ton of room for experimentation.

The shine looked pretty useless in that video, to be honest. Every time you used it, it was superfluous and you put yourself at risk for no reward.

It looks like you are the superior player in that matchup. Notice how limited your approach was against the Metaknight? It was very predictable. Dairs and Bairs aplenty. He shielded and spotdodged nearly all of them. You had to rely on mindgames and accidents much more than your opponent to get a hit in, and your follow-ups were not as safe or as damaging.

QFT! The best thing about his new shine is that it's a unique punishing tool. If there's a moment to punish the enemy for wrong doing then the new shine is the perfect tool for the job. In addition, it's the perfect tool for poorly executed recoveries, whereby the enemy rises above the edge.

Along with what BEES said, you're approach didn't vary much, downair is good, but it should have been a bit predictable to the MK...