Falco+ ~Hands Off My Prey!~ Under Construction! Upgrading to 7.0

[Clever_Sleazoid]

His whole argument is flawed because I was NEVER into Falco, but as soon as I tested the shine out I jumped on his bandwagon because he is so unique and awesome with it.

 

[Kuga]

Oh,just something i forgot to add here,thats my last post about that,I SWEAR '-'
Someone said that.

The funny thing is,nobody asked then to make Falco Shine to be a combo starter or something lika that,after the buff,and removing,they now say
''He needed this,this add a new amount of depth and actually became more useful''

This is Funny.

His whole argument is flawed because I was NEVER into Falco, but as soon as I tested the shine out I jumped on his bandwagon because he is so unique and awesome with it.

Thats the problem man,Falco need to be unique? No,the Goal of Brawl+ Plussery is to made all characters to be tourney viable,but now,they add a lot of little things that are non sense.

 

[Clever_Sleazoid]

And you know what else is funny? There were multiple responses to that showing how if that is indeed your logic to removing the shine, you are a numbskull.

 

[Rudra]

*sighs* Why are we still dealing with this guy? Honestly, its cool that he's against the shine and all, but since he cant put up a decent argument as to why its implementation is a bad thing that makes Falco "too good" (which it doesnt, as proven 9001 times before), we may as well ignore him.

 

[Arkaether]

I've noticed that one of the major points put forward for the shine buff is that it boosts Falco's nearly non-existent combo game. Let me raise an idea against it. Keep in mind that I'm an avid supporter of the shine buff; this is just an idea I raise to further understanding.

Now, Falco has a bad combo game. All he really has is his utilt, dair, and bair. I doubt anyone who seriously plays Falco will debate this point. However, let me ask you something: is a good combo game absolutely necessary for having a tournament-viable, balanced character? Not all characters are good at comboing (Bowser, for example). Do you absolutely require Falco to have a good combo game? He's got quite a few good options, not least of which is the awesome SHDL. I believe that is to possible to balance him without requiring him to be a combo beast. So do we really need a new combo move?

Also, as everybody now seems to be waving the "nobody asked for it, but now everybody wants it to stay" argument around, allow me to address that as well. Who cares? If a friend gives you a winning lottery ticket, and then demands it back because "oh well you didn't want it BEFORE you knew it was a winning ticket, so you shouldn't have it NOW", are you seriously going to return it? Sure, not that many people have raised the idea of the new shine buff, but that doesn't mean it is unneeded under any circumstances. Someone somewhere was brilliant enough to realize something the community as a whole didn't, so why does that make it worse? This is not hypocrisy. Only after it has been implemented have we noticed that it was necessary and exciting. That is because without the experience of having used it, we did not know what it would be like. Stop waving that argument around, because it is nothing more than a simple logical fallacy attempting to divert attention from the fact that Falco needed this onto a personal attack on Falco mains. That is called an "ad hominem" argument, and it is one of the first signs that the opposing party is running out of intelligent and logical arguments. I don't care if you think it's simple wishy-washy fickleness, that doesn't change the fact that it is a necessary and important aspect for Falco.

 

[Thunderhorse+]

Thats the problem man,Falco need to be unique?

Yes...? You know what we call un-unique characters? homogenizing. You know what we call a game with little competitive depth? vBrawl. Those two things are exactly what Brawl+ is combating as well as the balancing of characters. You know what else wouldn't have been necessary if our goal was simply the balancing of characters? Crouch-canceling; no auto-ledge snap; the entirety of our physics changes. NONE of that was necessary if our goal was simply to balance the game. Just make the top tier's moves worse, make bottom tier's moves better. Voila, balanced game (obviously this is a gross oversimplification, but the point still stands). No, the goal was to make the game a fun, deep, and balanced game, or as much of one as could possibly be made out of the vBrawl engine.

This was just so silly I had to respond one last time.

 

[leafgreen386]

Oh,just something i forgot to add here,thats my last post about that,I SWEAR '-'
Someone said that.

The funny thing is,nobody asked then to make Falco Shine to be a combo starter or something lika that,after the buff,and removing,they now say
''He needed this,this add a new amount of depth and actually became more useful''

This is Funny.

Why do you still post here? 90% of your posts are either whining or are otherwise useless. I have never once seen you actually contribute to a discussion.

Thats the problem man,Falco need to be unique? No,the Goal of Brawl+ Plussery is to made all characters to be tourney viable,but now,they add a lot of little things that are non sense.

I wanna play a game with 40 characters and they all play exactly the same! I think it would be fun! That way every character is perfectly balanced! Um... how about "no?" Character diversity is essential to prolonging this game's lifespan, and something that makes a character more unique without breaking them should be welcomed with open arms.

 

[Rudra]

I agree with Leafgreen If it adds diversity without breaking the character, there shouldnt be a problem with it.

@Arkaether: That's a good question. As you've stated, Falco's combo game is relatively shallow, and along side that, his Shine was virtually useless. The buff actually gives him the potential to expand his combo game and diversify it. It doesnt necessairly make him into a combo beast, but it does strengthen his combo game through versatility. (of course, you know all of that already though ) Also, while it may be possible to balance him out without "making him into a combo beast", what else is there that can be done, especially regarding his Shine (which is supposed to be more than just a tool to reflect)? The current way things work seems pretty much perfect imo.

 

[Arkaether]

Well, one purpose of my post was to divert attention from the troll, but I don't think it really worked all that well.

Anyway, Rudra, what would you do if someone suggested a different shine? Perhaps something with knockback and startup akin to Fox's, as a sort of move you combo into instead of from, or just a GTFO move? As for balancing him without making him into a combo beast, I honestly have no clue. I love where he's at now. However, I won't deny the possibility, and I'm more than willing to listen if any anti-shiners come up with a good idea. It's really up to them now, though, since Falco's fine as is.

 

[Kuga]

I was suggesting to reduce the Cooldown and more KB,but keeping the 0 Hitstun,due the Eletric effect.
Because you guys was complain about how punishable the move was.Its just a suggestion.

 

[leafgreen386]

I was suggesting to reduce the Cooldown and more KB,but keeping the 0 Hitstun,due the Eletric effect.
Because you guys was complain about how punishable the move was.Its just a suggestion.

Which no one likes, so why do you keep pushing it?

 

[Kuga]

Which no one likes, so why do you keep pushing it?

Ok,ok.... You guys want a better Shine?(less punishable)
Or a another combo starter?

 

[King Funk]

Ok,ok.... You guys want a better Shine?(less punishable)
Or a another combo starter?

Another combo starter. Useless question. End of the line. The only thing you are doing here is raising your post count. Just shut up and go away. You should have been banned a long time ago.

 

[Kuga]

I go away if i want to go away right?
Now i am speaking with you normally,and you keep saying that.
I said a suggestion,you guys dont like it?Ok,just say that,do not be angry.

 

[5ive]

You keep repeating yourself over and over. You don't have to go away, but actually contribute to the topic if you MUST post. Everything you're saying is full of nonsense. I'd be surprised if you haven't got an infraction yet.

 

[Kuga]

Well,my suggest was contributing with the topic right?
But now i know what you guys want,Another Combo starter,so,my suggest is nothing.

 

[King Funk]

Well,my suggest was contributing with the topic right?
But now i know what you guys want,Another Combo starter,so,my suggest is nothing.

Wow. Just wow. You took a long time to realize this. Or you think we're stupid. You know what we want, and we can't get anything more from you. Thank you and goodbye.

Oh and, 5ive, don't encourage him.

 

[Kuga]

Ok,forget my suggestion.

To Punk: Chega,estou falando normal com você,faça o mesmo.

 

[Rudra]

Anyway, Rudra, what would you do if someone suggested a different shine? Perhaps something with knockback and startup akin to Fox's, as a sort of move you combo into instead of from, or just a GTFO move? As for balancing him without making him into a combo beast, I honestly have no clue. I love where he's at now. However, I won't deny the possibility, and I'm more than willing to listen if any anti-shiners come up with a good idea. It's really up to them now, though, since Falco's fine as is.

Actually, that was the same thing XSilvenX had mentioned at one point. Personally though, I'd rather the Shine be for more than just keeping his enemies off of him since his lasers already do that enough (and also double as an effective approach), as does his IAP (even though it's punishable, its fast and relatively effective at resetting spacing in an offensive manner). While I wouldnt mind listening to what the Anti-Shiners have to say, it'd be hard for me to put away a Shine that makes his combo game more versatile for a Shine that simply pushes people off of him (and doesnt Wolf's [and to a less used extent, Fox's]do that already while still maintaining their uses?).

 

[Clever_Sleazoid]

Falco's shine isn't a good combo starter at all, it's better to actually combo INTO it, ESPECIALLY in the air, since when you do it from the ground they can just DI down and back and techroll SO easily.

Really, it's more for fakes and mindgames when you use it upright, rather than starting combos.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Stop feeding the troll guys. He'll shut up sooner or later.

 

[Rudra]

Stop feeding the troll guys. He'll shut up sooner or later.

*sighs* Why are we still dealing with this guy? Honestly, its cool that he's against the shine and all, but since he cant put up a decent argument as to why its implementation is a bad thing that makes Falco "too good" (which it doesnt, as proven 9001 times before), we may as well ignore him.

Fair enough. Lets not feed the troll then.

I hear you there.
Though it seems that it will take awhile. We may as well move onto something else like the Shine's applications or something.

 

[Clever_Sleazoid]

Well, to start off:

Easiest way to land is from jabs, as dthrow is techable.

At certain percents when they CAN'T tech roll it, you can upsmash or utilt as they fly over you.

If you knock em into the air and short hop shine, that's when the real fun starts as you can then short hop nair, uair, or bair.

 

[Yingyay]

Iight, heres my two cents after playing at least 4-5 hours with Falco straight with actual people.
Falco doesnt need any combo starters, for one he has throws, dthrow to wateveer works fine. Utilt it so fast and useful, utilt to bair to watver etc works great. Fthorw to CC utilt etc etc. sh-lasers are EVIL as heck. someone's recovering? Pfft not in Falco's stage, spam these bad boys till you're kicked off your own system, if they recover low, pfft fall back spam again. The one thing Falco is kinda missing now is a GTFO move, his reflector was good for that. His new reflector flings them over your head, with good DI you wont be able to follow up with anything and Sakurai forbid you miss your Bair or Uair against say.....Sheik? Fox? Ganon of all people? You getting smacked away hard. Now if falco's reflector had that GTFO feature put back, you can space yourself to be at the perfect position to do watever you want again.

My two cents.

PS: Im using Falco for doubles now, he's tooo good lol

 

[Thunderhorse+]

Anyway, Rudra, what would you do if someone suggested a different shine? Perhaps something with knockback and startup akin to Fox's, as a sort of move you combo into instead of from, or just a GTFO move? As for balancing him without making him into a combo beast, I honestly have no clue. I love where he's at now. However, I won't deny the possibility, and I'm more than willing to listen if any anti-shiners come up with a good idea. It's really up to them now, though, since Falco's fine as is.

The only other idea I would've had for the shine - which is impossible at the moment since they can't add a non-existent hitbox, is for the first four frames to (instead of being dead frames) have knockback, as you said, similar to Fox's that pushes the opponent back upon connection a set distance...that set distance being the tip of the normal Falco shine range. Effectively, it would still be unpunishable at the tip of the shine like normal, but it also wouldn't screw you if you use it up close, as the start-up hexagon would combo the opponent into the normal shine hexagon at the tip. There would still be a punishable area in the middle area if it, as per the normal shine, which would (I think) prevent it from being broken. That and it would be as easy to shield as the normal shine is. So it should look like so...

big startup hexagon -> If connects = 4% -> normal shine hexagon hit at the tip (3%). Grand total of 7%, unpunishable

big startup hexagon -> if doesn't connect = 0% -> if hit at the tip of the normal shine hexagon = (3%). Grand total of 3%, unpunishable.

big startup hexagon -> if doesn't connect = 0% -> if not hit at the tip of the normal shine hexagon but hit elsewhere = 3%. Grand total of 3%, punishable.

I really wish there was a better way I could make a diagram -_-. Maybe the retraction speed-up could be incorporated so that if you don't hit with either the tip or the start-up of the shine, you don't completely bone yourself for the prospect of 3% damage while keeping a good 1/4th of the shine (just outside of the big start-up hitbox - just before 1/2 the full extension of the shine) fairly punishable, even on connection. If it's deemed to be too powerful in that incarnation, slow down the retraction speed buff or take it out completely.

But as I said, even if this was a the best idea ever created, it is literally impossible at this time, as a hitbox cannot be created from nothing. And even if it were possible, I like this current shine more anyway.

Just my two cents on the matter.

 

[Bakuryu]

Does Falcos tip of shine still trip? If so has any found a good use for that? I ask that because which if the shines initially pushes back, but the tip launches it over like it does now?

Also off topic is there some Falco mains here that can give me some tips, cause I suck really bad I can't do SHDL for the life of me and I don't even know whats the best combos to use or how to use his jabs right.

 

[Dan_X]

Guys, so I found a seemingly effective way to consistently land his shine! Read on

the whole subject on Falco getting his sined buff, came from the fact that the whole purpose of Brawl+ was to make every character tournament viable. Falco was already vable so he didnt need any buffs. But now that he got it, people are saying "Oh his shine was useless" umm, A reflector is supposed to reflect. The only buff he probably wouldve needed was for less cool down time but thats it.

edit: I've started playing Falco for the weekend......hes ****

He's good sure, but you act as though the addition of this new shine makes him instant "****," as if it's some sort of instant win device. I have news for you; it's not.

There's nothing wrong with giving a character something that will make him more interesting, and deepen his game, so long as it doesn't break him. If you think than his new shine is so good that it's broken, perhaps we're playing two different games?

And if you call Orca a "little Falco mainer", what are you then? A tiny, chicken little piece of Falco noobiness?

ROFL, well put. I seriously laughed out loud at this!

Also, as everybody now seems to be waving the "nobody asked for it, but now everybody wants it to stay" argument around, allow me to address that as well. Who cares? If a friend gives you a winning lottery ticket, and then demands it back because "oh well you didn't want it BEFORE you knew it was a winning ticket, so you shouldn't have it NOW", are you seriously going to return it? Sure, not that many people have raised the idea of the new shine buff, but that doesn't mean it is unneeded under any circumstances. Someone somewhere was brilliant enough to realize something the community as a whole didn't, so why does that make it worse? This is not hypocrisy. Only after it has been implemented have we noticed that it was necessary and exciting. That is because without the experience of having used it, we did not know what it would be like. Stop waving that argument around, because it is nothing more than a simple logical fallacy attempting to divert attention from the fact that Falco needed this onto a personal attack on Falco mains. That is called an "ad hominem" argument, and it is one of the first signs that the opposing party is running out of intelligent and logical arguments. I don't care if you think it's simple wishy-washy fickleness, that doesn't change the fact that it is a necessary and important aspect for Falco.

Very well said!

Falco's shine isn't a good combo starter at all, it's better to actually combo INTO it, ESPECIALLY in the air, since when you do it from the ground they can just DI down and back and techroll SO easily.

Really, it's more for fakes and mindgames when you use it upright, rather than starting combos.

No, it's an excellent combo starter, it also has use with single hopped shining, into a 2nd jump attack. In addition, it's a good tool to punish the enemy with for making a foolish mistake on stage or failing at a recovery and rising above the edge.

Try to land an uptilt from the shine, which will lead into more combos. If they DI away, at least get a hit in, primarily Bair.

Well, to start off:

Easiest way to land is from jabs, as dthrow is techable.

At certain percents when they CAN'T tech roll it, you can upsmash or utilt as they fly over you.

If you knock em into the air and short hop shine, that's when the real fun starts as you can then short hop nair, uair, or bair.

Actually, I figured out last night the single best way to land his new shine. I haven't tested this on every character, however, it seems to work nearly every time (unless my opponent is somehow missing the timing). SHDL approaches that land you just within shine distance of the enemy set up into the shine. You have to be fast, but you can take advantage of the SHDL's stun time to land the shine, after which you can do whatever. This seemed VERY reliable! Try it out, it's pure awesomeness! Seriously, finally I've fond a really solid way to land the shine, it's great!

Iight, heres my two cents after playing at least 4-5 hours with Falco straight with actual people.
Falco doesnt need any combo starters, for one he has throws, dthrow to wateveer works fine. Utilt it so fast and useful, utilt to bair to watver etc works great. Fthorw to CC utilt etc etc. sh-lasers are EVIL as heck. someone's recovering? Pfft not in Falco's stage, spam these bad boys till you're kicked off your own system, if they recover low, pfft fall back spam again. The one thing Falco is kinda missing now is a GTFO move, his reflector was good for that. His new reflector flings them over your head, with good DI you wont be able to follow up with anything and Sakurai forbid you miss your Bair or Uair against say.....Sheik? Fox? Ganon of all people? You getting smacked away hard. Now if falco's reflector had that GTFO feature put back, you can space yourself to be at the perfect position to do watever you want again.

PS: Im using Falco for doubles now, he's tooo good lol

LoL. Okay, so he doesn't "need" any combo starters, but he doesn't not need them...

Funny, I never considered his old shine to be a GTFO move. It was way too risky to use in an up-close and personal situation, as the cool-down lag was so great. His Nair is his prime GTFO move, far better than his old shine could ever hope to be... There's simply nothing good about his old shine. You talk about the old shine granting you the ability to "space youtself to be at the perfect position to do whatever you want" perhaps you don't main Falco, if you did, you'd realize this is what his lasers are for. His lasers DEFINE his spacing game, not his old, piece of junk shine. His lasers are the BACKBONE of Falco, there's simply no denying it. They are utterly crucial. He utilizes them for stun, stun whilst retreating, and especially stun whilst approaching the enemy. If the lasers land just as you touch down in front of the enemy you can land many quick attacks whilst the enemy is enduring a split second of stun. For one, you can land Dtilt, Ftilt, Utilt, and his Shine. All of which have their uses. Point is, his lasers are his spacers... his old shine is not missed at all.

BTW, you mention his throws as being useful. The only one that's really useful is his Dthrow, and that is EXTREMELY techable, especially at slightly higher percents. Seriously, if the enemy DIs correctly, and their percent is high enough (and I'm not even talking that high, maybe 60%+ or so) then they just fly away at an angle teching into the ground right away. It's very difficult to effectively utilize the Dthrow when this is the case. His other throws don't really lead into anything, unless perhaps you phantasm the enemy out of a Forward throw. Either way, his Dthrow is the only useful one, and it can be DIed to the extreme.

Does Falcos tip of shine still trip? If so has any found a good use for that? I ask that because which if the shines initially pushes back, but the tip launches it over like it does now?

No, it doesn't. It simply pulls the enemy in and upwards. However, there is a hitbox, perhaps near the tip, that afflicts enemy's who are recovering greatly. It may, if it connects with them, spike them--- or knock them away at a funny angle that's difficult to return from.

Also off topic is there some Falco mains here that can give me some tips, cause I suck really bad I can't do SHDL for the life of me and I don't even know whats the best combos to use or how to use his jabs right.

Some tips...

•Honestly, the only advice I can give is practice. No one can explain to you the timing for his SHDL, as it is simply something that you must practice, and commit to muscle memory. Don't be discouraged, don't expect to pick up Falco and master him in a jiffy. He's among the most technical characters in the game, I'd place him 2nd to Ice Climbers. It takes a while to master him, and to figure out how to fully utilize his move set. I will say that his SHDL is a MUST! It gets even more complicated than SHDLs eventually, as you will want to learn how to do B-reversals as well, for spacing.

•When recovering, refrain from using his firebird as it's punishable, stick with the phantasm, when at all possible. If the enemy edge hogs, phantasm just above the ledge, landing on the stage, if not, you may hit the edge when they have invuln frames and you'll fall and die.

•As for comboing, here's what you should practice. Practice transitioning from his Utilt, to Bairs. Don't Bair the way it was meant to be used; i.e. don't use it with your back to the enemy. It does have more knockback yes, however, you will learn that the weaker hits allow it to combo into itself. Bair, to Bair.

That should be good for now.

 

[Clever_Sleazoid]

No, it's an excellent combo starter, it also has use with single hopped shining, into a 2nd jump attack.

Sorry, I said what I meant wrong. What I meant to say was the shine is difficult to land as the INITIAL move to a combo. Now for psyching out, punishing, and mindgaming it does work fine, but you can't really expect to have success using it as an approach as you would with nair or dair for example, especially since it IS punishable as a simple spot dodge or roll behind you from the opponent leaves you wide open.

 

[Rudra]

Actually, I figured out last night the single best way to land his new shine. I haven't tested this on every character, however, it seems to work nearly every time (unless my opponent is somehow missing the timing). SHDL approaches that land you just within shine distance of the enemy set up into the shine. You have to be fast, but you can take advantage of the SHDL's stun time to land the shine, after which you can do whatever. This seemed VERY reliable! Try it out, it's pure awesomeness! Seriously, finally I've fond a really solid way to land the shine, it's great!

I took a look into that on Training Mode in its slowest speed, and it seems as though most (if not all) characters do not have enough time to recover from the laser stun to respond from a Shine. It may very well be a guaranteed setup into it.

I wonder what other methods can be used to land a Shine...I dont have anyone to fight at the moment (not till the weekend), but a few things I'd like to be confirmed would be:

-Dtilt (Spaced/shielded at low %)>Shine: If perfectly spaced, will a Dtilt at low percent lead to a Shine? What if the opponent shields it at its maximum range? Will they be able to counter, or will they be forced to roll back while you Shine? How would DI/Character weight affect this if it connects?

-Fthrow>Shine/DC Shine (low/mid%): I doubt this is possible because they can react to it in a similar manner as Dthrow. Yup. Probably useless unless the character is super floaty. I think it may work on Jiggs, but she may recover too quickly from the throw's stun or just DI far enough to avoid it. For the many others who could tech Falco's Dthrow/Fthrow by DI'ing down and away, it may be impossible to tech chase them with a DC Shine.

-Dair (Weak/Flubbed)>Shine @ Mid%: Probably unlikely since it doesnt have that much stun and it could probably be DI'd enough to avoid a followup.

-Bair (front)>Shine/SH Shine: Probably possible, but not quite necessary since Falco can chain Bairs into each other (and even a Spike sometimes). Could be a potential mixup since the opponent would be trying to escape the chain, but nothing more.

-Nair>Shine: Seems to work at low-mid percents, though DI could render it ineffective.

 

[leafgreen386]

Falco's lasers really don't have that much stun. You can barely jab after one and still get it to combo, so I would be very surprised if shdl -> shine was a legit combo, given the slowdown on it. Did you try just holding down shield on the controller once they got hit by the laser? Because that should be all anyone needs to do to stop it.

 

[Rudra]

Falco's lasers really don't have that much stun. You can barely jab after one and still get it to combo, so I would be very surprised if shdl -> shine was a legit combo, given the slowdown on it. Did you try just holding down shield on the controller once they got hit by the laser? Because that should be all anyone needs to do to stop it.

Hmm. Seeing as how the game buffers shield and the shine comes out slower, that could very well happen.

EDIT: Urk...you're right. The shield can stop the shine at maximum range after the character's hit by a laser <=/

 

[Dan_X]

Falco's lasers really don't have that much stun. You can barely jab after one and still get it to combo, so I would be very surprised if shdl -> shine was a legit combo, given the slowdown on it. Did you try just holding down shield on the controller once they got hit by the laser? Because that should be all anyone needs to do to stop it.

hmm. No I Haven't sat down to test this to that extent. I realized it worked on bots then it worked on my friends. I'll have to experiment more later.

 

[Clever_Sleazoid]

Of course if they put up their shield they can get grabbed, eh?

 

[Caleb Wolfbrand]

hey guys I'm a falco main and don't post too often, but I wanted to ask the rest of you something.

does anyone find themselves using up-tilt too much? like... for me, it seems to erase the need for a lot of moves. it hits above, in front, and behind you. it's fast and it combos well. anyone feel like it should be reduced a little, in either stun, speed, or something just so that our other moves feel more needed? Or am I the only one who thinks this...

just wondering, keep up the good work guys

 

[Kuga]

I think that,too,maybe a 1.5x,but this help him to connect a aerial(before,his Utilt barelly combo into a aerial)

 

[Thunderhorse+]

hey guys I'm a falco main and don't post too often, but I wanted to ask the rest of you something.

does anyone find themselves using up-tilt too much? like... for me, it seems to erase the need for a lot of moves. it hits above, in front, and behind you. it's fast and it combos well. anyone feel like it should be reduced a little, in either stun, speed, or something just so that our other moves feel more needed? Or am I the only one who thinks this...

just wondering, keep up the good work guys

If it could be made any slower without compromising its combo-ability, then yes, I would be all for that. It is a bit spammable in its current incarnation, and it just looks a little wonky to see it animated that fast personally . Maybe in exchange for a slight dtilt speed-up?

 

[Dan_X]

hey guys I'm a falco main and don't post too often, but I wanted to ask the rest of you something.

does anyone find themselves using up-tilt too much? like... for me, it seems to erase the need for a lot of moves. it hits above, in front, and behind you. it's fast and it combos well. anyone feel like it should be reduced a little, in either stun, speed, or something just so that our other moves feel more needed? Or am I the only one who thinks this...

just wondering, keep up the good work guys

I honestly don't think that slowing it down is necessary. If you find yourself using it a lot it's becaus it's the best set-up for Falco's combos of all of his moves. I used it a ton even without the speed up, though it wasn't as reliable.

I don't think it needs to be slowed down, you mention that it hits behind, though it hardly does. It's no more powerful than many other characters Utilt, Mario, Lucario, Squirtle, whatever... They all have pretty quick/spammable Utitls... it's really not a problem either. The thing with Falco's uTilt is, unlike their utilts it doesn't really affect the enemy behind him. So it's not as good as theirs. If your Utilt is hitting the enemy behind you, I have news for you, you're on top of him.

So no, I don't think we need to slow it down, if you want more variety, have his Dtilt sped up a tad bit so it's more effective.

 

[xDD-Master]

Falco should be able to glide like pit =O

But I dont know if this could ever be possible.

AND I know this section isnt here to talk about changes, could someone give me a link to where I can make suggestions.

 

[Yingyay]

If it could be made any slower without compromising its combo-ability, then yes, I would be all for that. It is a bit spammable in its current incarnation, and it just looks a little wonky to see it animated that fast personally . Maybe in exchange for a slight dtilt speed-up?

How about no speed up and utilt reduced?
Dtilt is good for forcing someone to dodge in the air once they get hit by it.
Mindgamez ftw

 

[Thunderhorse+]

How about no speed up and utilt reduced?
Dtilt is good for forcing someone to dodge in the air once they get hit by it.
Mindgamez ftw

I'm not talking a HUGE "omg wtf spammable ****" speed buff. Then again I'm not talking about a huge speed nerf to the utilt either. Just something to keep it less spammable while retaining all of its combo-ability that it had before. Essentially...he'd play mostly the same?

To be honest, I'm perfectly happy with Falco as he is right now. All I'd think we'd need to do (and I use that term in the loosest sense possible) is to optimize his physics along with the rest of the casts'. If they're found to be optimized as is, great! We're done.