Falco+ ~Hands Off My Prey!~ Under Construction! Upgrading to 7.0

[VietGeek]

Thanks TH, I'm just trying to smooth out the shine animation in BBox to replace the frame speed modifiers for the shine and make it look better too.

Seems I got all the specifications right, looks normal and since B+ already uses the Motion file for the phantasm fix, why not eh?

Now I need to get it to someone who can verify all the PSA timer changes are identical to what happens when the actions get changed via the Animation Engine.

Veril sir...I have a parcel for you.

 

[Veril]

Veril sir...I have a parcel for you.

Orly

Please elaborate.

 

[BEES]

I'm seriously considering abandoning Falco right now. Someone give me a good reason not to.

Someone show me ONE, ONE video of someone kicking *** with Falco in 6.0 or later. I don't mean winning by a stock. I don't mean doing really well and then getting gimped at the end. It has to be a decisive, overpowering victory against a formidable, but outclassed opponent.

I want to see that this character is not a ****ty dead end character that just gets gimped and comboed by the rest of the cast.

So far I haven't seen that.

 

[Thunderhorse+]

Jesus I should have recorded the crew battle with Guy I had where I only lost 1 stock to him and took his entire stock revenue. Then proceeded to take 4 more stocks off of the opposing team and almost winning the entire crew battle despite it being 3 people (Guy, Count Kaiser, and JCaesar) against myself.

And I will remind you that Guy won the last tourney he attended. So despite him being black, he's not a bad player by any stretch.

Falco certainly isn't a ****ty dead-end character. I think anyone with a modicum of tournament experience would agree with me.

Regardless I'll try to be more liberal with saving replays in the future.

 

[THO]

This last weekend at HERB 3 kismet got 4th (out of 26 or so) with Falco. He pretty much ran show until semi finals and he doesn't really play BP. The lasers shut down a huge number of options and his recovery (forward b) is really hard to mess up if done correctly.
Also, his stage guarding is powerful due to his huge jumps and bair which stays out forever.

Aerial to jab is an incredibly safe on shield option and pretty much forces the opponent to roll away if not get shield poked.

Also, Falco's smash attacks (mainly forward and up) have huge range and (especially forwards smash) kill.

The biggest problem I've seen with Falco users is there refusal to actually use lasers. Falco has great spacing moves, a mix up approach, a ridiculous projectile, decent recovery, huge jumps, good combos, and really good hitboxes on most of his attacks.

Lasers set everything up, give it a shot.

 

[matt4300]

I'm seriously considering abandoning Falco right now. Someone give me a good reason not to.

Someone show me ONE, ONE video of someone kicking *** with Falco in 6.0 or later. I don't mean winning by a stock. I don't mean doing really well and then getting gimped at the end. It has to be a decisive, overpowering victory against a formidable, but outclassed opponent.

I want to see that this character is not a ****ty dead end character that just gets gimped and comboed by the rest of the cast.

So far I haven't seen that.

Man there are tons of Kickass vids on Jcaezars channel of TH, and a few good ones of TH on capes. He wrecks with falco. Though you won't find to many Decisive, overpowering victorys from any char vids of 2 high level players... Thats kinda part of brawl+s balance thing.

This match even though close makes falco look like hes toying with zelda
http://www.youtube.com/user/JCaesar007#p/u/39/eXP_tg5DX_4

 

[RPGsFTW]

Falco stuff.

SK92 Brawl+. I thought everyone would have watched the very few vids that the kind people of SmashBoards have uploaded for me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96LmQEsEUjM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPjNnPDqKFM

 

[Alex 615]

Falco's jab isn't as good on shield as most people think. In 7.0, he is open for 8 frames between jab 2 and 3 on shield. Back in 6.0, he was open between jab 1 and 2.

But overall, Falco's not a dead end character by any means. I'd say, his ****ty recovery, and the fact that most of the roster can werck him off of a single hit are the only things balancing out how much of a monster he is on stage.

Also, it was said a while back that fast fall laser is 6+ on hit; this is only partially true. It turns out that against some characters, it's +7, at which point laser->d tilt and laser->d smash become legit. These characters are: Sheik, Zelda, Falco, Fox, Kirby, Metaknight, ZSS, Marth, Squirtle, Jigglypuff, Pikachu, Olimar, and G&W.

 

[BEES]

SK92 Brawl+. I thought everyone would have watched the very few vids that the kind people of SmashBoards have uploaded for me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96LmQEsEUjM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPjNnPDqKFM

I think the videos you posted run counter to your point that Falco is broken in any sort of way. If you can't see that, sorry.

 

[Veril]

Falco is really good. If you can't see that play another character.

"Looks at nair"

God that move is so pimp.

 

[Thunderhorse+]

I think the videos you posted run counter to your point that Falco is broken in any sort of way. If you can't see that, sorry.

We aren't trying to make Falco broken in any sort of way. We're trying to make him balanced because he was too good in past iterations. I would say that the GHS series succeeded in that regard.

Sk is **** though, but he needs to learn to SHL properly.

 

[Veril]

Also, it was said a while back that fast fall laser is 6+ on hit; this is only partially true. It turns out that against some characters, it's +7, at which point laser->d tilt and laser->d smash become legit. These characters are: Sheik, Zelda, Falco, Fox, Kirby, Metaknight, ZSS, Marth, Squirtle, Jigglypuff, Pikachu, Olimar, and G&W.

+6 advantage on perfect shff hit? At 0 I assume. Laser's have at least a tiny bit of kbg right? If so than the adv will increase as % does.

Something I've learned from doing a lot of adv testing is that finding adv@0 is actually suboptimal. What I recommend is finding the advantage that is 1 point higher than what the adv@0 is, and using that as the base for an advantage formula. A good example is Lucas's d-tilt, which has an adv of -7 of the entire cast @0% but -6 at 1-2% (with it having a neutral advantage at 90%-117% depending on character, at which point it becomes really useful). Given the slow growth rate of the d-tilt adv, measuring adv from its value at 0 is a bad choice.

 

[RPGsFTW]

I think the videos you posted run counter to your point that Falco is broken in any sort of way. If you can't see that, sorry.

When have I ever said he was broken. I may complain about having a hard time against SK or Fow in tourney, but I'm pretty ****ed sure that I NEVER claimed any one character as broken.

 

[Alex 615]

Laser's have at least a tiny bit of kbg right?

I'm pretty sure they don't. I haven't looked at them in PSA, but I've never noticed any growth in game. Just to be safe I tested again at 999, and it was still +6 or +7 for the same characters.

This made me think of putting together a table of advantage for different moves based on both character and %, though collecting all the data experimentally would be a nightmare. Is there an exact formula for calculating frames of hitstun?

 

[GHNeko]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKdK1W-dwsM

Flaco is lolololol

 

[Thunderhorse+]

Orca has been busy with P:M and life in general, so a change of power has occurred. I talked to Orca and he said that I could take over the Falco+ thread, so here I am.

I'm going to try to revamp the OP to reflect the changes to Falco in 7.0 as soon as I'm done working on the changelist. I ask everyone to just be patient, I'll be working as fast as possible to get the thread updated ASAP.

 

[Veril]

Orca has been busy with P:M and life in general, so a change of power has occurred. I talked to Orca and he said that I could take over the Falco+ thread, so here I am.

I'm going to try to revamp the OP to reflect the changes to Falco in 7.0 as soon as I'm done working on the changelist. I ask everyone to just be patient, I'll be working as fast as possible to get the thread updated ASAP.

<3

Awesome.

I'm pretty sure they don't. I haven't looked at them in PSA, but I've never noticed any growth in game. Just to be safe I tested again at 999, and it was still +6 or +7 for the same characters.

This made me think of putting together a table of advantage for different moves based on both character and %, though collecting all the data experimentally would be a nightmare. Is there an exact formula for calculating frames of hitstun?

I can calculate hitstun based on bkb. but... If the hitstun varies across the cast despite it being a move with no growth, that means that its ∂W bkb. I have no formula for that.

Hitstun is f***ing complicated is all I have to say. I've made several advantage tables of the sort you are referring to. It is an enormous amount of work.

 

[ChaosKnight]

Orca has been busy with P:M and life in general, so a change of power has occurred. I talked to Orca and he said that I could take over the Falco+ thread, so here I am.

I'm going to try to revamp the OP to reflect the changes to Falco in 7.0 as soon as I'm done working on the changelist. I ask everyone to just be patient, I'll be working as fast as possible to get the thread updated ASAP.

i heard you like getting chain grabbed :D