Falco+ ~Hands Off My Prey!~ Under Construction! Upgrading to 7.0

[Thunderhorse+]

Falco+
A Comprehensive Guide​

------------------------------------------------------
Table of Contents

* Updates
* Comprehensive Falco+ Change List
* Videos
* Moves
* Tips and Strategies

------------------------------------------------------

Updates:

The next update will finish explaining new tactics surrounding Falco's 'Melee style' lasers. In addition, the tactics section will be started. I may also spice up the guide, reformatting it and perhaps adding some pictures.

10/09/2009: Multiple tiny changes have occurred since the last update, I simply forgot to mention them here. Anyway, here's a nice update!
•Added comprehensive change list, both technical and Layman's descriptions.
•Updated many of the 'TBP' (to be posted topics). For example, many of the moves have been finished.
05/05/2009: Worked on Moves section, still quite a bit to be done...
04/22/2009: Began the reformatting process! It's about time!

Comprehensive Falco+ Change List
This section covers every change Falco has endured from vBrawl to Brawl+

Falco (Technical Change List)

Physics: [GET INFORMATION]
-Jump/Grav Values: New: 133AC4E0; Old: 1326AC80

* Down B:
- BKB 35 -> 80, Angle 20 -> 120
- Speed tweaked: Startup slower, sped up after hitbox (0.500x Frame 1; 1.000x Frame 4; 1.500x Frame 7)
- Hitlag Multiplier: 0.50x -> 1.00x
- SDI Capacity Multiplier: 0.00x -> 1.00x
- Hitstun added to allow for combos (Special offensive flags changed from 204FFFC3 -> 004FFFC3)

* Rapid Jabs:
- Hitlag Multiplier: 1.00x -> 1.30x

* Neutral B
- Damage 3% -> 2%

* Up Tilt
- IASA Frame 22 (for jump only)

* F-Smash
- (Hitbox A) Hitlag Multiplier: 0.70x -> 0.90x
- (Hitbox B) Hitlag Multiplier: 0.30x -> 0.60x
- (Hitbox B) SDI Capacity Multiplier: 0.30x -> 1.00x

* F-Air:
- (Hitbox A) Hitlag Multiplier: 0.70x -> 0.90x
- (Hitbox B) SDI Capacity Multiplier: 0.00x -> 0.80x

* Neutral-B:
- Can now only perform 1 laser in the air in a Short Hop
- Can now fastfall during the laser animation after the peak of a jump has been reached

* Up-B:
- (Linking Hits) SDI Capacity Multiplier: 1.50x -> 0.80x

Falco (Layman's Change List)

Physics:
Falco's physics have been tightly optimized to fit his style of play. Playing him in in Brawl+ as opposed to vBrawl is like night and day. It feels so much smoother and responsive now that it's amazing! He reaches the apex of his jump much more quickly, he's very nimble, has a very swift fast fall. His short hop has been tweaked, changing his laser game (I'll explain that later in this section). He's pretty much a speed demon now, namely in the air.

Down+B (Shine):
The Shine now comes out slower than before, but ends much more quickly, to facilitate comboing. Upon hitting the enemy, it will pull them skyward and toward you. This is excellent in that it sets up for combos, and finishers, generally Bairs. The change adds depth depth to Falco, and makes him a ton more interesting to play. It still reflects projectiles as it always has, no changes there.

Rapid Jabs:
Tweaked hit-lag will now allow the enemy to more easily SDI out of the attack.

Neutral B (Lasers):
Damage reduced from 3% damage to 2% damage per hit. This was done because Falco's lasers are really spammy, and needed to be toned down slightly.

Can now only perform a single laser in a short hop. This eliminates Falco's ability to Short-Hop Double Laser (SHDL). This may sound terrible to those of you who main Falco in vBrawl and haven't tried Brawl+ yet. Rest assured, he has some new tricks up his sleeve, and these are even better than the old ones!

Falco can now perform "melee style" lasers; i.e., Short-Hopped fast-falled single lasers (SHFFL, also referred to as SHSL). Basically, after a short hop, once nearing the apex of your jump, you can fire the laser off, and at the same time smash the directional stick DOWN. This allows you to fast-fall the special (laser), canceling it if you shot it before touching the ground. With this technique you'll shoot just as fast as before (if not faster), but you'll only be shooting one laser at a time. In addition, this technique takes considerably more skill to master than SHDL.

The reason Falco's SHDL was removed is that it far too effectively one-sided too many matchups. He could more than easily wall the likes of bigger, taller characters such as Ganon, Bowser, DDD, etc. At the same time, on the flip side, his lasers didn't bode well against shorter characters, as it was harder to hit them, namely because SHDL was almost always better, and easier to execute than SHSL. His SHDL lasers were essentially quite polar, making him too good in certain matchups, and proving nearly useless in others. His newly implemented SHFFL not only aids the big guys, but it also helps Falco against shorties.

You'll also find that you have far more control with the SHSL, that you can now far more effectively approach with it. It's very quick, more than excellent at halting your opponent's approaches. It's very affective at retreating safely, giving you an 'in' to explout if the enemy tries to follow you. For example, if the enemy dashes towards you, and you dash away from them, jump, and perform a SHSL back at them, you'll halt their approach, and attack, and if they are close enough you can follow up.

Up Tilt:
Can now cancel the endlag of the attack by jumping on frame 22, basically just jump after you perform the Utilt, the timing isn't too strict. This adds a ton of utility to Falco's Utilt as it can now effectively combo. A great follow up upon canceling is a Uair, or Bair.

F-Smash:
Hit-lag tweaked to allow for better SDIing (Can get out easier).

F-Air:
Hit-lag tweaked to allow for better SDIing (Can get out easier).

Up-B
I may need to correct this, but as far as I know his up-B (FireBird) now links better upon hitting the enemy. In addition, it's slightly more difficult to get out of. This is good, in that it makes a crappy move a slight bit less crappy, but only marginally so.

Videos:

Please Submit your Falco+ RC1 Videos in the thread and I'll post them here! PM me if I fail to post them here!

Orca (Falco) vs Alcy1 (Peach) Match 1 of 2 Close match, a few mistakes can cost big! Good example of Fair uses!
Orca (Falco) vs Alcy1 (Peach) Match 2 of 2 This is what Falco+ is all about! Check it out! Good example of Fair uses!

Moves:

------------------------------------------------------
Aerials
------------------------------------------------------
Up Air:

Great for comboing. Uair, to fast fall to Uair again can be an effective chain on some characters, depending upon the enemy's DI of course. It's also a pretty good kill move, however, you just have to make sure to land with the correct part of the move. The flub hits are garbage, and provide little to no knockback. It's most effective when hitting with the tip of the feet. Once landed correctly, only then can it be killer. The flub hits actually help quite a bit in the combo-ability of the move.

Forward Air:

This move is actually REALLY good! It's funny, because I haven't seen many Falcos use it consistently. It can combo, if DI and hitstun will allow, and here's how to do it:

Use rising Fairs (Fair after you jump) to counter an airborne foe! If the enemy has jumped, and is otherwise above you in the air, meet them in the air with a rising Fair. Make sure to DI with them, keeping them in it. The DI of this move is very interesting in that you can DI away from them, if need be, and slow your forward momentum. Fast fall once you've disengaged the enemy, and try to catch them in a rising Fair again! It can combo, depending on enemy DI of course. Fair is a great counter to characters who spend a TON of time in the air. For example, Peach players will often float too high for short hopped attacks, and well above SHFFL range. You could jump and Nair them... however, Fair may in fact be a MUCH better option, as it is fast, and offers more DIable control than you'd expect. It's a GREAT way to counter their floating!

Another good aspect of Fair is that it can "pull" the enemy to the ground with you. If you can trap them inside of this in the air, and DI with them, you can effectively bring them to the ground. That can be useful especially if the move has ended before touching the ground. Generally you should never use this move close to the ground as the end lag is VERY punishable.

Down Air:

Falco's Dair is amazingly powerful. It, along side Nair, are Falco's best aerial approach options, switch them up! Not only is it a great tech chasing move, but when sweet-spotted (done while touching the enemy) it acts as a powerful spike! Another great property of his dair is that you can dribble the enemy with it! If you dair the enemy just before they touch the ground, they'll hit the ground and bounce back up, as such, you can dair them again, and again, DI depending of course.

You'll find that Falco's dair is one of his prime finishing moves. Try to combo into this move, especially when over the edge, as I've said, it's a great finisher. Some setups for the spike, DI depending, are down tilts, down throws, and down airs near the edge. A down air on an opponent who is standing will pop them up, whilst in hitstun, you can take advantage of the dribble and dair them again as they soar over nothing, spiking them to their death.

Back Air:

Falco's bair is very useful, and can be used to "carry" the enemy to the edge, setting them up for a spike! Don't use this move simply as it implies, when your back is to the enemy. Use it even if you're facing the enemy! You'll do less damage, and less knockback, however, it's still one of your most useful aerial options at any given time. Because of the decreased knockback of frontal bair hits, you can chase the enemy as they won't be thrown as far and you can hit them with more bairs. This can set up for a spike! Practice your use of Falco's bair! It's a very powerful tool! Remember to fast fall, as this helps you to follow up with another bair more quickly!

Neutral Air:

Falco's neutral air is likely one of his best approach moves of his aerial arsenal! It's a great pressuring move as there are multiple hitboxes for this attack, so it's not so easily spot dodged, or avoided. It also aids his combo game, in combination with fast falls, and utilts. Another great aspect of this move is that it works as a GTFO (get the f*** off me) move. If the enemy is in your face, short hopped neutral airs will keep them at bay! This move, along with Falco's other aerials has pretty great priority, and as I've said, this one is difficult to avoid. As such, spamming it can be quit useful, as it makes it really difficult for the enemy to get through.

------------------------------------------------------
Smash Attacks
------------------------------------------------------
Up Smash:

Falco's usmash is an effective move (and at higher percents it's a kill move), however, it can prove difficult to land. One of the best ways to lead into the usmash are in the form of DACUSing (Dash Attack Cancelled Up Smashing).

To learn how to DACUS check out the following video. The video showcases Link's DACUS, however many characters can use this technique, Falco happens to gain quite a bit from it too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5a-3KyoX4U

This move can lead into combos, though generally Utilt will be a better combo starting option. After doing a Usmash, attempt a Utilt, then chase with Bairs, or Nairs.

A good way to land a gattling combo (a combo whereby the dash attack connects with the enemy, canceling into an immediate Usmash) is to execute the technique out of a down throw. It's a good grab-game mix up.

Down Smash:

This move can be pretty effective, but you have to land it. It has pretty crappy range, you have to be quite close to the enemy. A few ways to lead into it is after a Dair spike onto the stage, or potentially after a jab. It's also effective if you can read the enemies teching. For example, if they roll towards you Dsmash works well to punish them if timed correctly.

Forward Smash:

His Forward smash is great! It has excellent range, can be stutter-stepped for more range. It can hit enemies off of the ledge, as such, it can be useful for edge-guarding. It also has a hitbox nearer the back of Falco, slightly above him, which is nice when the enemy messes up their spacing and his too close to you. They'll feel the pain even if they weren't directly in front of you.

This move can be a great finisher, you've just got to land it. It comes out pretty fast, but not so fast that it's easy to land. It can be effective when used as a surprise out of Dash Dance (DDing). It's also good to use this move after a SHSL approach.

------------------------------------------------------
Tilts
------------------------------------------------------
Up Tilt: Falco's Utilt is very important to him, it's the basis of many of his combos. A utilt can sometimes be comboed into itself once or twice, and can then lead into Usmashes, Uairs, Bairs. One of the safest options is Utilt -> Bair. All in all, the Utilt comes out quite quickly and works well get the enemy off of you.

Down Tilt: Is great, it can be a bit slow, but when landed it can be quite effective. It knocks the enemy up, and away from you at an angle. Depending on the character and DI one can Dtilt into a Bair, or a finisher such as Dair. A good set-up for landing the Dtilt is jab -> dtilt-- it can surprise the enemy.

Forward Tilt: Falco's Ftilt is quite nice, it's good for spacing. It comes out fairly quickly, and can hit on of three angles; high, mid, and low. Due to the fact that it's quick, and has decent range, its makes for a good space-- especially when paired with the laser game. When spamming, if the enemy tries to advance you can stop them with a Ftilt.

------------------------------------------------------
Throws
------------------------------------------------------
Up Throw: TBP

Forward Throw: This throw isn't bad, it doesn't provide for any useful follow ups, but it does get the enemy AWAY, sometimes that's all you need. I generally use this near the edge, and spam lasers to keep the enemy from returning. Depending on the character, you can chase them off the stage and finish them.

Down Throw: Dthrow is single-handedly Falco's most important throw. It can lead into itself (DI depending), creating small chains, and can lead into a slow of other attacks. It does become difficult to follow up the Dthrow with an attack when the enemy's percent gets higher, as they can often times DI into the ground, or just far from Falco in general, but it's really good early percents. A few good follow ups to Dthrow are DACUSing, a regrab, dahs attack, gattling combo. I find that DACUSing is especially useful here, practice!

------------------------------------------------------
Specials
------------------------------------------------------
Fire Bird (Up+B): Very punishable! Try to avoid using this in combat, if you do use it, be intelligent and DO NOT spam it. It's sometimes a good switch up for horizontal recoveries (replacing the phantasm) in the event that the enemy is timing an attack such as a smash to counter the phantasm. It's safer in this scenario as it has a longer start up time and can throw off the enemy's timing as they expected a Phantasm, thus allowing you to sweet-spot the ledge. Along this same line of thought, if the enemy hogs the ledge, blocking your phantasm with their invincibility frames, you could instead use Firebird to surprise them, as its hitboxes are out longer and it's timed differently from the Phantasm-- as such you'll likely get them off the edge.

Phantasm (Side+B): Falco's recovery. Forget the firebird... you'll be using this 90% of the time to recover! It's quick, and can semi-spike the enemy if they're hit by it in the air (this makes it scary to guard off stage as they can potentially be spiked). Initiating the phantasm can be risky as their is some start up lag, and there is pleanty of landing lag. To reduce the landing lag jump and do the Phantasm as close to the ground as you can. It's slower when used on the ground. Another safe way to use it is to run off the stage, immediately after you stop touching the stage phantasm back to the stage, surprising your enemy with a very quick phantasm.

The Phantasm induces a good deal of hitstun, and if landed, especially at higher percents, can lead into a finishing blow (primarily Uair or Bair). When you hit the enemy when they are on the ground it pops them up skyward, granting you the required stun to land a finishing attack.

Shine (Down+B): An excellent combo starter/ punishing tool. Falco's shine has been reworked in Brawl+ to pull in the enemy upon hitting them. It pops them up, and sends them above you. The enemy can DI, making following up difficult, especially at higher percents, but it's an excellent shine nonetheless. It has a slower start up than Falco's original shine, though it has less end lag (to facilitate followups). Here are some great follow ups for Falco's o'so unique shine!

•Shine -> Bair (Which can then be followed up by another Bair, percent/DI depending). At higher percents, baiting the enemy into this set-up is devastating as landing that Bair can definately finish the match. This is one of Falco's better kill options; shining into a finishing Bair at high percents.

•Shine -> Utilt. This is noticeably more powerful at lower percents, as the enemy will be able to DI further and further past you as their percent increases-- thus making it harder to land a Utilt. However, it's still incredibly useful / powerful. At low to mid percents you can follow up the Utilt with another Utilt, and perhaps another, then you can chase with juggling Uairs, or Bairs. When I say "juggling" Uairs, I mean that after the Utilt you can Uair the enemy on your first hop (short or full hopped, depending what the scenario calls for) then follow up with a second Uair, or a Bair in stead with a second jump. It can be difficult to juggle the enemy like this, as it requires good reading of enemy DI and you have to be very quick.

•Shine -> Nair

•Shine -> Dair. Generally it's easy to land the spike, though again it depends on percents and DI. Spiking them into the stage lets you begin the tech chasing game. Nair is good for techchasing, as it has multiple hits, staying at for a while, and Dair can also be very effective at punishing techs-- so long as you can read where the enemy is going to roll to.

Lasers (Neutral B): Falco's lasers are the BACKBONE to his game. If you aren't constantly shooting his lasers than you aren't playing him right. Using his lasers effectively allows you to control a massive horizontal portion of the stage making it very difficult for the enemy to approach. Not only does it shut out enemy approaches, but lasers can be used as approaches themselves!

For those of you who really don't know anything about competitive play, and furthermore, nothing about Falco in a serious match, I have some incite for you... NEVER shoot his lasers while standing on the ground! The most efficient way of using his lasers is whilst short hopping, timing it so that the lasers fire off just before touching the ground. This method effectively removes all end lag upon landing. Where as if you shoot on the ground you have to deal with a ton of cooldown lag and the enemy can easy attack you.

There are multiple effective ways to use his lasers:

SHFFL (SHSL): TBP

B-Reversed SHFFL: TBP

------------------------------------------------------

Tips and Strategies:

TBP: To be posted

Notice: Please feel free to correct any information here if I make a mistake. In addition, feel free to post your combos, and set ups, and I will add them to the thread. I'd like input on the moves from other Falco mains, to that I get the best move descriptions down possible! Thanks!

goodoldganon : Thanks for the thread layout ideas, your great thread helped me get this one moving!

 

[Thunderhorse+]

Saved For Future Use! ;D

 

[leafgreen386]

These threads are not meant to discuss any potential changes... at all. You should probably remove the entire "changes" section from the post.

I would like to say on the subject of falco's utilt, though... it isn't nearly as good as you make it out to be. The lag is substantial on it, meaning until high percents (and even then I'm not sure), the opponent will not still be in hitstun from it, giving them the ability to easily not only airdodge out, but hit you for trying to followup during your startup. Against characters with poor aerials, you can space the tip of the bair to hit them and usually you'll get off the hit without being hit in return, but it's still fairly easy to airdodge through it, which just puts you both back into a neutral position. Basically, there are no guaranteed combos out of a utilt, and you will be relying entirely upon your opponent messing up afterward. I find the most practical thing to do after one at low percents is actually to run away and shdl them, which, quite frankly, is kinda sad. Falco's game in brawl+ revolves largely around spamming his laser and hit and run.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Falco's laser game seems pretty solid in Brawl+.

 

[Ojanya]

Falco's laser game seems pretty solid in Brawl+.

I don't know. It's better than Brawl, but that's not saying much. If he could DI while shooting, he would be much better. It gets hard to pressure your opponent when you sacrifice mobility for lasers. Sure, you can jump, and THEN laser, but it's not quite the same.

That being said, I still think falco is an excellent choice. I've found that Jab -> Shine -> dash attack can set up for a combo sometimes, too, if anyone wants to try that. I think it's really important to try to utilize his shine, even if it is overlooked by a lot of players, that trip can really open your opponent up and shatter any momentum they had.

I don't know about you, but it seems like the postlag on Falco's u-tilt is >/= is u-smash, which can by dashed into making it a better choice, maybe. I'll do the math later today if I have time.

...does anyone know where I can find some frame data?

 

[Rudra]

His Fair is trash, it's generally the worst option, all the time... or maybe it's just me. I can always find something better to do in place of using a Fair, more Bairs anyone?

Yeah, his Fair is not an effective edgeguard tool anymore due to higher gravity and fall speed. It does add on some nice damage and has decent range at least, and is an okay way to finish an aerial combo at least.[/

I don't know. It's better than Brawl, but that's not saying much. If he could DI while shooting, he would be much better. It gets hard to pressure your opponent when you sacrifice mobility for lasers. Sure, you can jump, and THEN laser, but it's not quite the same.

QFT. Though a code hasnt come out for that yet, and people may think that Falco's lasers will become "broken"...ack, we arent supposed to be speaking on these things here!

Anyways, unlike Fox who focuses a lot more on comboing, I find Falco to be a lot more about pressure and spacing. I like using his Nair or Dair (SH RAR Dair is very sexy) to cross up shields, and sometimes go for the Jab combo afterwards as a punishment for those who drop them early. Thanks to hitstun and shield stun, his Dtilt is a good option when spaced perfectly to poke under a shield and of course lead to aerial combos and dair kills, and Ftilt as actually a nice way to "reset" the positioning between Falco and his opponent, especially after a Jab or two....Actually, I find Ftilt to be a little better than his Shine on occasion since it offers almost the same amount of range and has less cooldown, but doesnt offer that good trip rate.

Also, I believe someone mentioned his Dthrow>Jab>Re-grab combo. It actually has potential to "re-invent" his CG to an extent, but it doesnt leave the opponent helpless. Faster attacks like frame 1 jabs and good DI can get them out of it, but that means that Falco may have a chance to follow up with his Dash attack or a shield grab. (Or just choose to use the AAA infinite a little to add more damage) Another interesting thing I'm trying is to PWG after a Dthrow on floatier characters, though its not as easy as VBrawl lol. I've also heard that he can "chain" Fthrows together a little, but I havent actually tested it yet.

All in all, I think Falco transitioned nicely from VBrawl to B+.

 

[Problem2]

Falco is an onstage comboing beast. Just avoid getting knocked off stage because he's pretty easy to ledge guard.

 

[Plum]

Falco's laser game can just wreck some characters. Any character with a predictable recovery just gets destroyed if they aren't recovering from below the stage, and that usually leaves them open to Falco's off stage options. Big characters get hit even harder when they just get stuck in a streak of like 4 lasers as they fall.

Falco is just too easy to gimp though. I find it much easier to force him off stage now with effective combos and it is still just as easy to gimp him. :\

 

[Kais3000]

I would like to say on the subject of falco's utilt, though... it isn't nearly as good as you make it out to be. The lag is substantial on it, meaning until high percents (and even then I'm not sure), the opponent will not still be in hitstun from it, giving them the ability to easily not only airdodge out, but hit you for trying to followup during your startup. Against characters with poor aerials, you can space the tip of the bair to hit them and usually you'll get off the hit without being hit in return, but it's still fairly easy to airdodge through it, which just puts you both back into a neutral position. Basically, there are no guaranteed combos out of a utilt, and you will be relying entirely upon your opponent messing up afterward. I find the most practical thing to do after one at low percents is actually to run away and shdl them, which, quite frankly, is kinda sad. Falco's game in brawl+ revolves largely around spamming his laser and hit and run.

What at all is this "Falco can't combo out of his utilt". If it's a a troll then please don't as this thread is supposed to be helpful to potenetial Falco+ players, if it isn't however then I cannot see how you can say that. You are overgenearlising the fact that it may not work on certain characters but I can say for sure that on FF's there are four combos that spring to mind and have all been tested, with varying DI and airdodge, and work.

1) utilt>utilt
2) utilt>usmash
3) utilt>nair
4) utilt>dair

 

[Ojanya]

What at all is this "Falco can't combo out of his utilt". If it's a a troll then please don't as this thread is supposed to be helpful to potenetial Falco+ players, if it isn't however then I cannot see how you can say that. You are overgenearlising the fact that it may not work on certain characters but I can say for sure that on FF's there are four combos that spring to mind and have all been tested, with varying DI and airdodge, and work.

1) utilt>utilt
2) utilt>usmash
3) utilt>nair
4) utilt>dair

What he's saying, is that it's not as good as it's made out to be. It's extremely helpful, but there might be better options. For example, a usmash>usmash would be better than tilt to usmash, and at higher percents, it's next to useless. (Not that you should be worrying about tacking on more damage at that point, anyway.)

 

[Kais3000]

It doesn't look like he's saying that at all. If you look at the quote,

"it isn't nearly as good as you make it out to be. The lag is substantial on it, meaning until high percents (and even then I'm not sure), the opponent will not still be in hitstun from it, giving them the ability to easily not only airdodge out, but hit you for trying to followup during your startup."

This is saying that Falco's utilt can't combo at all which is so not true. Also usmash>usmash only works at the lower end of percents wheras the utilt combos work at the mid percents which is still a viable time to be racking percent.

 

[Good Ol' Tree]

Falco is a total beast in B+. Can still camp effectively which is rather annoying I think. But SHDL and Illusion are amazing for spacing, I really haven't found a whole lot of uses for shine but I also haven't played a whole lot of B+.
Dthrow > Dash Attack/DAC is very sexy unless your opponent DI's up then you can just set up a Uair/Nair combo or just Dair them and read the tech.
I think that Ftilt is a little underrated. It's nice for spacing after landing lasers or something. It could get you out of a sticky situation.

Falco can definitely protect his bread better in B+ .

 

[storm92]

It doesn't look like he's saying that at all. If you look at the quote,

"it isn't nearly as good as you make it out to be. The lag is substantial on it, meaning until high percents (and even then I'm not sure), the opponent will not still be in hitstun from it, giving them the ability to easily not only airdodge out, but hit you for trying to followup during your startup."

This is saying that Falco's utilt can't combo at all which is so not true. Also usmash>usmash only works at the lower end of percents wheras the utilt combos work at the mid percents which is still a viable time to be racking percent.

leaf...is not a troll. He's in the BRoom. ._.

Anyways, what he says is correct. If there was less cooldown lag, the move would be much better for true comboing.

Falco seems to be pretty solid in B+, as he can link together some moves for combos, utterly dominates the stage with lasers, and Bair is good for about everything.

 

[Dan_X]

Hmm. His utilt is a godsend to me. So, either my opponents fail epically, or I'm just really lucky. His Utilt is the basis for his combo game for me, I'll post videos.. I haven't seen any1's Falco like my own. I'm not saying I'm Godly, I'm saying I've yet to see many good Falco+ videos.

I'll try to get some up on monday.

Leaf, are yo usaying that the Utilt doesn't put the enemy into any hitstun? None at all? I'm confused. It seems it does, but maybe my opponent just thinks he's in hitstun and doesn't respond.

 

[storm92]

Leaf, are yo usaying that the Utilt doesn't put the enemy into any hitstun? None at all? I'm confused. It seems it does, but maybe my opponent just thinks he's in hitstun and doesn't respond.

I won't entirely speak for him, but we had a conversation about this so I'll try to relay what I remember him saying.
He basically said that the time the opponent is in hitstun (for the most part) is less than the time it takes for Falco to cooldown using Utilt and then get into position to combo with other moves. Therefore, yes, the combos are escapable, the opponent probably just isn't responding in time.

 

[Dan_X]

I won't entirely speak for him, but we had a conversation about this so I'll try to relay what I remember him saying.
He basically said that the time the opponent is in hitstun (for the most part) is less than the time it takes for Falco to cooldown using Utilt and then get into position to combo with other moves. Therefore, yes, the combos are escapable, the opponent probably just isn't responding in time.

Okay. I'll work to record some videos monday, so you guys can see how I play. :D

 

[Kais3000]

I won't entirely speak for him, but we had a conversation about this so I'll try to relay what I remember him saying.
He basically said that the time the opponent is in hitstun (for the most part) is less than the time it takes for Falco to cooldown using Utilt and then get into position to combo with other moves. Therefore, yes, the combos are escapable, the opponent probably just isn't responding in time.

I would be willing to accept this if you could provide evidence to back this up. The evidence that I have gathered suggests the converse of what you're saying is true and as such I still accept that you can combo out of Falco's utilt. I will however go do some more testing and come back at a later time to suggest whether I was wrong or right.

EDIT: I conclude that it works on the majority of the cast except characters with almost instant aerials( i.e luigi and yoshi's nair). Characters with great aerial movement, like Toon Link and Wario, cannot be comboed fcrom it at 0% but can be from about 10% onwards.

 

[leafgreen386]

I've really gotta wonder how you're testing this.

0% - 2051
9% - 2266
21% - 2553
30% - 2768
39% - 2983

Those are launch speeds for the move on mario (percents are from before the hit). The universal hitstun constant is set to .4865, while mario's character specific division constant is 34. Hitstun is calculated by h = m*l / d, where m is the universal hitstun constant, l is the launch speed of the move, and d is the character specific division constant (ranges from 32 to 36, where faster falling characters have higher division constants which compensates for their faster falling).

This means, that at 0%, mario will have 30 frames of hitstun, at 9%, mario will have 33 frames of hitstun, at 21%, mario will have 37 frames of hitstun, at 30%, mario will have 40 frames of hitstun, and at 39% mario will have 43 frames of hitstun. Note that mario's hitstun division constant is the absolute middle ground.

Now, let's look at the frame data for falco's utilt and jump. The first hit of the utilt comes out frame 4, and the second hit comes out frame 12. The move finishes frame 36. That means that the move has 24 frames of lag. Now, falco takes 23 frames to reach the peak of his sh (airborne frame 6). Falco's fastest aerial is his bair, which comes out frame 4, but since you can't do anything on the first frame off the ground, it's actually 5 frames from when you jump, for a total of 11 frames before your soonest aerial. So it's going to take you anywhere between 34 and 47 frames from when you connect the move to when you can hit them with an aerial. Also, the soonest falco's usmash can connect is frame 8, although it will never connect that early after a utilt since the hitbox starts out right in front of him and then moves up.

So which combos work and don't work?

Utilt -> Utilt: Hitstun lasts 30 frames at 0%, while you have 24 frames of lag and 4 frames of startup, for a total of 28 frames between the two attacks. True combo.

Utilt -> Usmash: Well, you stop hitting with the sweetspot before 30%, but around 21%, mario will have 37 frames of hitstun. You have a minimum of 8 frames for the hitbox to come out, for a total of 32 frames before the usmash initiates. If the hitbox can make it around to above falco's head in 5 frames, then it's legit, but barely. Maybe a true combo. Even if it is, you have far too much lag to continue comboing after the usmash.

Utilt -> Bair/any other aerial: Considering the fastest you can hit with this is frame 34, and by the time mario has enough hitstun for that to connect (somewhere a little before 21%), he will already be flying too high for you to connect with your bair the first frame that it's available (or even close to that for that matter)... This is never legit from a shorthop. At higher percents it becomes viable from a full jump, however.

Linking aerials at low percents from a utilt should never happen.

 

[Phear995]

Surely hit stun ending does not imply that the character can't be comboed after that point though. Does jump not have start up frames for example? Plus even if you were to jump, you're not invulnerable and you could be hit with another attack after you've initiated the jump command, surely?

 

[Kais3000]

Surely hit stun ending does not imply that the character can't be comboed after that point though. Does jump not have start up frames for example? Plus even if you were to jump, you're not invulnerable and you could be hit with another attack after you've initiated the jump command, surely?

Agreed with this post. The utilt games may not be true combos in the sense that true combos keep the opponent in hitstun for the entire duration BUT it can still be a combo in that the opponent cannot react fast enough to input ANYTHING. If you can provide me with a list of frame data and the calculations of this then I will be willing to accept that fact.

 

[leafgreen386]

The window after hitstun ends with which you can still combo in is quite small. Every character in the game has access to an airdodge that becomes invincible on frame 4 (there might be some exceptions, but whatever). So you have three extra frames to play with after hitstun ends, except against characters with very quick aerials.

When performing aerials after a utilt, they will usually be near the peak of your sh, meaning it will probably take you nearly the full 47 frames for you to connect, if not more due to them needing to fall slightly into your aerial. Even adding three frames to the hitstun values I listed won't be enough to connect, while several characters have either 2 or 3 frame aerials that can hit even before they can airdodge. Even if there are certain percents where you can land a bair from a utilt, it's not consistent by any means.

Frame perfection in brawl+ isn't that unrealistic, either, due to people being able to have their buffers as high as 10 frames. If you're mashing airdodge or nair you will get it the first frame possible.

And this is all with bair. His dair seems to be a very popular option out of his utilt for the "psuedo-pillar" it gives, but it doesn't really lead into anything if you start it before you're falling, meaning they really should not work. It's either escapable between the utilt and the dair if you're starting the dair late (so that it will still combo into another utilt), or it's escapable between the dair and the next utilt since you started your dair too early to fast fall immediately afterward.

You probably will get out combos from utilt against players that don't mash airdodge/aerial, but if you play against someone who does, they should be getting out far more frequently than you can actually combo them. Unless you just happen to hit with it at the right percents very often.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Utilt has only worked for me as a juggle into itself at low percentages. Getting something out of that is usually a mindgame matter. Baiting an AD into a grab is the most I've been able to actually pull off though. D:

 

[BEES]

Dair is Falco's kill button. I know for certain it's a great tech-chase and a great edgeguard, and it tends to be a pretty safe move.

I can't say for certain what true combos you can do with it though. It seems like you can dribble many characters at mid-percents if you can predict their DI, sometimes as many as 5 times with a bit of luck. Depends heavily on the character though.

I find myself doing Dair-Jab-Dthrow pretty often. I'm not sure how escapable this actually is, but again at mid-percents it feels like very little Falco does in the air IS escapable.

 

[King Funk]

Dair is Falco's kill button. I know for certain it's a great tech-chase and a great edgeguard, and it tends to be a pretty safe move.

100% agreed. Whenever you get an opportunity hitting the opponent with a dash attack at mid high percents (opening made with lasers), it's an automatic dair kill.

 

[bow master1]

i hate falco.hes just another one of those copies that they tried 2 make 2 be better than the original.but 2 me its fox all the way.

 

[BEES]

Dthrow to Dair is a sure combo at most percents. A great way to get an unexpected kill when you're on the ledge and your opponent is facing you is a pivot-grab/dthrow/dair just off the edge.

Nair to Dair is possible in certain situations. Falco Ken combo? More likely than you think!

 

[King Funk]

Dthrow to Dair is a sure combo at most percents. A great way to get an unexpected kill when you're on the ledge and your opponent is facing you is a pivot-grab/dthrow/dair just off the edge.

Nair to Dair is possible in certain situations. Falco Ken combo? More likely than you think!

Yeah, I've done this combo as well, it's very efficient. At mid high or high percents, using IAP on a standing enemy gives you a great opportunity for bair (you had that in vBrawl, but it wasn't guaranteed because of airdodge). You will then be able to edgeguard or even kill. ^^

 

[Deleted member]

Full hop back air zoning is great, its like melee.
Falco+ in general is a lot like melee.

 

[leafgreen386]

Dthrow to Dair is a sure combo at most percents. A great way to get an unexpected kill when you're on the ledge and your opponent is facing you is a pivot-grab/dthrow/dair just off the edge.

Nair to Dair is possible in certain situations. Falco Ken combo? More likely than you think!

Dthrow shouldn't combo into dair just about ever. DIing down and away lets you tech before falco can follow up. It is, however, good for starting techchases.

 

[Hype]

When I first saw this thread title, I thought someone was advocating for changing falcos taunt to actually sound like "hands off my prey" rather than "bread", lol.

 

[King Funk]

How about creating our very own official Falco+ combo video, made of footage from all of us?

 

[Dan_X]

How about creating our very own official Falco+ combo video, made of footage from all of us?

Sounds good to me. I have 5 Falco+ videos uploaded to my comp that I recorded yesterday. I'll get them up on youtube asap then link them in the OP.

I'll also be working on the OP around the time that I post the videos. If you guys have any Falco+ vids post them here, and I will post them in the OP.

Leaf, your crunch numbers are interesting. I'd like for you to check out my Falco+ videos when I upload them. Despite the fact that utilt shouldn't allow for aerial attack connection, it still seems to despite the actual facts. My friend tries dodging.. I'll show u what I mean, and you can rectify my wrongs. ;D

 

[King Funk]

Sounds good to me. I have 5 Falco+ videos uploaded to my comp that I recorded yesterday. I'll get them up on youtube asap then link them in the OP.

I'll also be working on the OP around the time that I post the videos. If you guys have any Falco+ vids post them here, and I will post them in the OP.

Leaf, your crunch numbers are interesting. I'd like for you to check out my Falco+ videos when I upload them. Despite the fact that utilt shouldn't allow for aerial attack connection, it still seems to despite the actual facts. My friend tries dodging.. I'll show u what I mean, and you can rectify my wrongs. ;D

You wanna be in charge of the editing? Everybody could send you their footage of nice combos, so that you make the compilation yourself. By the way, about the music, leave it to me (I'm a composer [funk/disco/house]). ^^

 

[Dan_X]

You wanna be in charge of the editing? Everybody could send you their footage of nice combos, so that you make the compilation yourself. By the way, about the music, leave it to me (I'm a composer [funk/disco/house]). ^^

Yeah sure, I'll be more than happy to edit! I have Adobe Premiere Pro CS3, so I definately have the tools necessary! THe one thing I lack is quality footage. I have a crappy camera and have done the best I could with it for recording my Falco matches. I hear that you can record the tv with a DVD player/burner? Is this so? I want to be able to burn matches and stuff, so I have a nice clean rendition of my match. Any help?

You're a composer? Awesome! I'd love to hear what you can come up with for Falco, I'll definitely use your stuff! ;D

Once I get my videos on youtube (youtube is being lame and is under maintenance so I can't do anything) I'll work on making this thread nicer. Also, hopefully I can get some quality videos from fellow Falco players, so that we can work on a Falco+ video.

 

[leafgreen386]

Leaf, your crunch numbers are interesting. I'd like for you to check out my Falco+ videos when I upload them. Despite the fact that utilt shouldn't allow for aerial attack connection, it still seems to despite the actual facts. My friend tries dodging.. I'll show u what I mean, and you can rectify my wrongs. ;D

Were you playing with 4.0 or 4.1? Because the 4.1 set has a falco utilt speedup.

 

[King Funk]

Yeah sure, I'll be more than happy to edit! I have Adobe Premiere Pro CS3, so I definately have the tools necessary! THe one thing I lack is quality footage. I have a crappy camera and have done the best I could with it for recording my Falco matches. I hear that you can record the tv with a DVD player/burner? Is this so? I want to be able to burn matches and stuff, so I have a nice clean rendition of my match. Any help?

You're a composer? Awesome! I'd love to hear what you can come up with for Falco, I'll definitely use your stuff! ;D

Once I get my videos on youtube (youtube is being lame and is under maintenance so I can't do anything) I'll work on making this thread nicer. Also, hopefully I can get some quality videos from fellow Falco players, so that we can work on a Falco+ video.

What you need to find in order to record directly your T.V is a capture card. You can check out some video guides about them on YouTube. As for the music, I am working on it, but it depends on how much time the video will last in minutes. 5, 6 minutes, no?

 

[Dan_X]

Were you playing with 4.0 or 4.1? Because the 4.1 set has a falco utilt speedup.

No, I just switched to 4.1 yesterday! I can't believe how many character changes there are! It's awesome! 4.1 is astounding so far, especially Falco's faster utilt! I'm so happy!

The videos in the post are 4.0. Check them out.

Leaf, I don't think it would be too unfair for Falco's Utilt's hitboxes to be tweaked.. Check this out, this happens all the time, and it just sucks. Characters like Mario don't have to deal with this because their utilt has better hitboxes for behind.

Check out 2:54 to see what I mean... here Could his Utilt be tweaked so that when the enemy is up your butt it actually hits him?

What you need to find in order to record directly your T.V is a capture card. You can check out some video guides about them on YouTube. As for the music, I am working on it, but it depends on how much time the video will last in minutes. 5, 6 minutes, no?

Hmm, I'll have to look into a capture card. We can easily base the video off of the length of your song. So whatever length your song turns out to be is fine by me.

 

[King Funk]

No, I just switched to 4.1 yesterday! I can't believe how many character changes there are! It's awesome! 4.1 is astounding so far, especially Falco's faster utilt! I'm so happy!

The videos in the post are 4.0. Check them out.

Leaf, I don't think it would be too unfair for Falco's Utilt's hitboxes to be tweaked.. Check this out, this happens all the time, and it just sucks. Characters like Mario don't have to deal with this because their utilt has better hitboxes for behind.

Check out 2:54 to see what I mean... here Could his Utilt be tweaked so that when the enemy is up your butt it actually hits him?



Hmm, I'll have to look into a capture card. We can easily base the video off of the length of your song. So whatever length your song turns out to be is fine by me.

I'll make it 7, 8 minutes for a lot of footage...

 

[Dan_X]

I'll make it 7, 8 minutes for a lot of footage...

Sounds good to me! I'm definately going to get that video capture thing to... Quality footage is a must!

 

[IC3R]

Hey Orca, how often do you think you'd be able to pull off a [Dthrow > Buffered Jab > Grab > Dthrow] chain? I've been using it against CPUs and my younger brother, but I'm not sure of its actual viability...

Dthrow > Gatling combo > Nair > Laser wall is also fun as hell to do...