~~ Falco General Discussion ~~

[Hawks go Caw]

http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=12813

If I'm reading it right, if we're grabbed at 52%, it'll go up to 120%.

 

[Teran]

Arf arf arf! Where's that birdie grrrr.

Oh and I've discovered a 0-death on the entire cast except Captain Falcon and Ganondorf guys.

ARF!

 

[Vlade]

Wtf is with all these chaingrabs being discovered. And they all happen to apply to Falco!

And what's this 0-death?

 

[ftl]

So is that real? The 52-120 for Wario? That's 52 to one-hit-from-death.

 

[Denzi]

April Fools!

...please?

 

[Hawks go Caw]

April Fools!

...please?

Haha. It was found a while ago. I posted it before today too. On the plus side, Wario has to be grounded in order to grab you which means he's likely to get grabbed too.

Why doesn't this Michael Hey guy find more Falco CGs ?!

 

[J4pu]

Michael Hey is good at finding CG's because he mains IC's or at least he used to.
he clearly just can't live if the character he's using doesn't have a CG.

anyways
Dash attack > charge Usmash shield pressure - YEA!
i've never seen anybody use it, thought it was worth mentioning, works same way as gatling combo but you charge the Usmash

 

[Denzi]

Michael Hey is good at finding CG's because he mains IC's or at least he used to.
he clearly just can't live if the character he's using doesn't have a CG.

anyways
Dash attack > charge Usmash shield pressure - YEA!
i've never seen anybody use it, thought it was worth mentioning, works same way as gatling combo but you charge the Usmash

They roll away from you? Would work well if they didn't though.

 

[J4pu]

everybody has vulnerability frames at the beginning of a roll i believe, just guess what they will do
i didnt mean to make it sound like an epic advance, just something you could try every once in a while.

 

[Denzi]

everybody has vulnerability frames at the beginning of a roll i believe, just guess what they will do
i didnt mean to make it sound like an epic advance, just something you could try every once in a while.

Vulnerability for the forward roll is at the beginning, if you roll away you're not vulnerable till the end of the roll. So it works if they try to get behind you, not if they roll away.

Still good though.

 

[J4pu]

not according to the frame data
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=225510

 

[Denzi]

not according to the frame data
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=225510

I was pretty sure that that was just total vulnerability, not necessarily when it was.

Example: When shielding in Bowser's Fire, you can't roll through it behind Bowser, but you can roll backwards without taking damage.

 

[J4pu]

I was pretty sure that that was just total vulnerability, not necessarily when it was.

I dont understand what you're saying, why would it say "4-17/21" if it just showed # of frames wouldn't it just say "13/21"??

 

[Denzi]

Then I'm wrong. I still don't understand the whole Bowser's fire thing then though.

 

[Blad01]

Well about Bowser's firebreath, if you roll away, you're getting out of the strong hitbox, the weak hitbow being not permanent... While when you roll towards him, you get into the strong hitbox, which is pretty big and permanent.

Well, that could be an explanation ^^

 

[Hawks go Caw]

Well about Bowser's firebreath, if you roll away, you're getting out of the strong hitbox, the weak hitbow being not permanent... While when you roll towards him, you get into the strong hitbox, which is pretty big and permanent.

Well, that could be an explanation ^^

Makes sense. Definitely a lot easier to jump out the fire breath at the end than towards Bowser.

 

[Tommy_G]

I think the fire breath is a bunch of small hitboxes coming out shooting at different angles. When you roll back, you go with the speed of the hitboxes so they dont hit you. When you go into it, you're going against the hitboxes giving more chances to hit you.

And when you roll back you're going into hitboxes that already hit your shield, so they can't hit you.

 

[Keitaro]

Wow, these firebreath theories sound profesional, lol!

I wish we could just ask Sakurai and get it over with.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Wow, these firebreath theories sound profesional, lol!

I wish we could just ask Sakurai and get it over with.

Not even Sakurai would know I bet. He was just the head of the project for Brawl. So pretty much I think he would be in charge of making sure everyone was doing there work properly, getting ideas out there, etc.

Yeah, the real one to ask are the program developers that actually worked on the whole physics of the game.

That also means Sakurai is not the one to blame if you do not like brawl. Hate the programmers xD

 

[Tommy_G]

If I got to ask Sakurai something, it wouldn't be on any fire breath roll theories.

 

[Sovereign]

I know that this subject has probably already passed, but I still want opinions, since I 'm trying to sharpen my Falco a little further. I want to know the many different types of approaches that some of you guys favor. My personal favorite approach is:

Short hop - Double Laser - Shine

It provides the proper defense as well as the proper approaching offense. Tell me your thoughts and opinions. I hope this isn't too common.

 

[ftl]

SHDL->shine isn't a very good idea. If they just hold shield , you've just shined a shield and will get punished, badly.

 

[Sovereign]

Wouldn't that depend on your spacing though?

Because I've done it plenty of times, and using it from the farthest possible distance for the shine to connect allows the recovery lag from it to end before the opponent manages to catch me. I also suppose it depends on the matchup as well.

 

[Tommy_G]

SHDL into SHDL

Srsly though, learn how to SHDL into buffered dash down air. Learn to use back air off the ground so that it hits people. Learn to space with Ftilt. Learn to use Nair at the last half of the short hop into jabs, utilt or grabs(jabs for shield pressure, utilt for shield poke, grab just for shield). Learn to IAP. All of them are good options. I'll probably put up a video of how sh dair is good compared to some of the stuff I've already seen.

 

[Sovereign]

Don't let my number of posts or title under my avatar decieve you. I do know how to all that stuff, and I can work a SHDair very well. I was just trying to present some ideas, and get the combo juices flowin' for us Falco lovers.

The SHDLS is something that I find useful, especially against projectile based characters like R.O.B, Samus, or Lucario. It's all in preference and style, really, which is why I love Brawl so much. You can be different for you style and usage of moves.

I know that there's a better use for his Firebird than to simply recover and probably get pwned halfway through it.

 

[J4pu]

Ftilt gets my vote

 

[Vlade]

@ Tommy:

You mean SHDL > buffered dash > retreating dair, right?

 

[Teran]

Srsly though, learn how to SHDL into buffered dash down air.

^^This.

It gives you a brilliant setup and plenty of damage. Words cannot describe how much I love that chain.

 

[Sovereign]

I've probably been doing it, but don't know it, since I haven't heard of a buffered dash. I've done a lot of things that I'm to say are nameless to me. I tend to experiment in the middle of serious matches and if it doesn't work than I switch up to something else. Trial and Error for me.

 

[Tommy_G]

If you do it right, the jump for the short hop looks like your sliding before you go airborne.
And no I don't mean retreating. If you hit them with the Dair and fast fall it, it auto cancels. I try to land behind them and follow up with a rising sh bair, jabs,utilt if their shield is low or a grab.

 

[Teran]

People shouldn't forget about the "punch" hitbox in the Bair that Minus is so fond of.

Its odd hitbox is a great followup attack that can catch your opponent off guard. Plus, Bair is just an awesome move with minimal lag.

 

[Sovereign]

I couldn't agree with you anymore than I do now. I think Bair is one of the best moves in Falco's standard arsenal.

 

[pure_awesome]

SHL > SHDL.

Anyway, don't use shine. It's too high a risk for too little a reward. Every character in the game, particularily the ones that you'll be facing at a high level of play, can punish a shielded Shine very hard, and some of them can just take the Shine to the face and still recover fast enough to punish you. All that for a couple percent and a chance to trip? lolnothx.

 

[Denzi]

SHL > SHDL.

In terms of approach of course. SHDL is still the superior long range option.

 

[Hawks go Caw]

SHL > SHDL.

Anyway, don't use shine. It's too high a risk for too little a reward. Every character in the game, particularily the ones that you'll be facing at a high level of play, can punish a shielded Shine very hard, and some of them can just take the Shine to the face and still recover fast enough to punish you. All that for a couple percent and a chance to trip? lolnothx.

After watching Shaya's video, I think Shine might be okay against MK's tornado at mid-distances. I don't know why, but shooting MK out the tornado with lasers seems more difficult than just shining him out of it to me.

 

[Sovereign]

SHL > SHDL.

Anyway, don't use shine. It's too high a risk for too little a reward. Every character in the game, particularily the ones that you'll be facing at a high level of play, can punish a shielded Shine very hard, and some of them can just take the Shine to the face and still recover fast enough to punish you. All that for a couple percent and a chance to trip? lolnothx.

I agree that the risk is high, but I was testing the percentage of hitting with a laser shine(single laser), and you get 9% - 10%, something that's pretty good, especially since most other players don't expect someone to go on the offense with Falco's shine all that often.

 

[Vlade]

People shouldn't forget about the "punch" hitbox in the Bair that Minus is so fond of.

Its odd hitbox is a great followup attack that can catch your opponent off guard. Plus, Bair is just an awesome move with minimal lag.

@ Everyone: Watch this video. Sethlon makes extremely good use of falco's bair, including the disjointed hitbox it has.

Also, you guys might want to take a look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mESic2p2zCs

It's about fighting up close, which is something I struggle with a bit. Pierce (the guy who wrote it) says that falco is possibly the best 'boxer' in the game. Give the thread a read and you might get something out of it, like I did.

 

[Hawks go Caw]

@ Everyone: Watch this video. Sethlon makes extremely good use of falco's bair, including the disjointed hitbox it has.

Also, you guys might want to take a look at this: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=228216

It's about fighting up close, which is something I struggle with a bit. Pierce (the guy who wrote it) says that falco is possibly the best 'boxer' in the game. Give the thread a read and you might get something out of it, like I did.

No video link.

 

[Teran]

Lol, I might post some shoutout pics to the Falco boards some time soon.

I'll be taking some for my birthday today lmao.

(Bread?)

 

[Vlade]

Whoops, I editted my post with the video link.