Falco Beats Fox!!

[Fortress | Sveet]

I think you're missing how lasers don't do anything at high level because of powershielding.

Duh, i powershield pretty well myself, but its still a disadvantage. I mean you have to stop moving and it forced you into your shield, although its only for a split second.

I think they do something, even if that something its diminished.

 

[unknown522]

ignore post.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Sup Unknown.

 

[unknown522]

same old stuff.

 

[GOD!]

I think you're missing how lasers don't do anything at high level because of powershielding.

Rofl.
search on youtube for "kirbykaze falco." In four matches he doesn't powershield a laser once, all vs high level opponents.
Maybe he's just not high level enough, you say, and at the real high level he's actually right.

He could just cop out and say he was only talking about the fox match up and not all other match ups too..

So the p4 3 game set between pc and zhu = 0 powershield lasers.

The zhu vs eggm (notorious falco slayer) set = 5 powershields in 3 matches; 4 of them were done on FD, the most common falco ban vs a fox. And this was out of about two hundred lasers or something?

The point is you don't know what you're talking about.

There's also this thing where falco waits to fastfall until after the laser is fired. PSing is out of the equation then.

So I really hope you were just trolling here or something.

 

[SwiftBass]

The zhu vs eggm (notorious falco slayer)

I like to think that hes pretty good in the matchup. I wouldnt say notorius(yet) but he's def taking some good steps in making good decisions in the matchup(some which I follow myself)

 

[GOD!]

I read somewhere that he claimed he could beat any (or almost any) falco. Maybe that was from a long time ago or something.

 

[SwiftBass]

I read somewhere that he claimed he could beat any (or almost any) falco. Maybe that was from a long time ago or something.

probly. lots of us spacies here in tristate are trying to up our falco games. We rly dun have a big name falco like the other regions. Thorn is probly the closest region wise and he's pretty unconventional to say the least.

 

[GOD!]

I thought in pretty much every region you had some autopilot falcos who just laser and dair shine anything that moves. And even if they were stupid at first they'd figure out what they were doing eventually.. or switch to fox or something.
I thought you were a falco main. But it sounds like you switched..

 

[Fletch]

Rofl.
search on youtube for "kirbykaze falco." In four matches he doesn't powershield a laser once, all vs high level opponents.
Maybe he's just not high level enough, you say, and at the real high level he's actually right.

He could just cop out and say he was only talking about the fox match up and not all other match ups too..

So the p4 3 game set between pc and zhu = 0 powershield lasers.

The zhu vs eggm (notorious falco slayer) set = 5 powershields in 3 matches; 4 of them were done on FD, the most common falco ban vs a fox. And this was out of about two hundred lasers or something?

The point is you don't know what you're talking about.

There's also this thing where falco waits to fastfall until after the laser is fired. PSing is out of the equation then.

So I really hope you were just trolling here or something.

I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic.

 

[GOD!]

I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic.

I sure hope so. How are you supposed to tell though... And so many people say that in order to beat good falcos you need to learn to powershield.
I did watch two good fox vs. falco sets just to make that post. At least I got something out of it.

 

[JPOBS]

There's also this thing where falco waits to fastfall until after the laser is fired. PSing is out of the equation then.

explain this.

 

[Tomacawk]

JPOBS **** your avy is epic

 

[SwiftBass]

I thought in pretty much every region you had some autopilot falcos who just laser and dair shine anything that moves. And even if they were stupid at first they'd figure out what they were doing eventually.. or switch to fox or something.
I thought you were a falco main. But it sounds like you switched..

I never mained falco.

 

[ArcNatural]

explain this.

He basically means to time it so that the laser comes out really low, at mid distances you can shl and shield/jump over the PS laser. I'm not sure how close you have to be before you can't shield it in this method.

But regardless, if Falco shl a close laser and you PS the laser, that still stops Falco from maximizing his position. The only time getting the real low laser helps is mid distance, which doesn't do anything but maintain an even stance.

 

[GOD!]

@swift bass: I guess I just say some videos of your falco and assumed you mained him.

And there are two different things you can do with varying the laser height: you can approach with lasering at mid distant and shoot a normal laser: if its powershielded you can just sh over it again and continue.

At a close distance you can just shoot a high laser (at the top of your sh, so it would hit the top of your opponents body). If they ps it just crouch and it misses.

You could just laser and then hold reflector, then laser again once you're sure you won't get hit. You can also just sit on the ground from a distance and just spam b.

 

[JPOBS]

GOD! i seriously think you're overestimating/theory crafting the potential of anti-powerfshield tactics.

First of all, Theory crafting how you could potentially shoot lasers as falco and then avoid a powersheild is kinda silly.
You're making it sound like you can react to a powershield on reaction, which you simply cant at any distance except far away. And if your opponent is going to powershield lasers from across the stage then who cares whether they do it or not it doesnt even matter. unless you just EXPECT the laser to be PS'd then you best option is probably just to PS it right back.

PS'ing only affects falco when he's on the approach or your opponent is doing running PS approaches. in both cases, it is incredibly difficult to theory craft things such as "Im going to shoot this laser really low then SH over the powershield for teh mindgames" midmatch because frankly if your opponent is already close enough that a PS'd laser will be bad for you and you think you need to take anti-Ps measures, then you're probably ALREADY ****ed anyway.

What im saying is, in any situation where a PS laser would mess you up, coming up with a anti-Ps strat such as shooting them really low or really high in the event you can jump over it or crouch it, there are probably WAY more important things to be worrying about than if you're going to avoid that PS'd laser. You're far better off just shooting regular lasers and keeping you're laser control and spacing and approaching on the right terms.

PS'ing is a great tactic to use against falco but it wont stop him, and the reason it wont stop him is not at all because of how you describe it.

Also, you're last paragraph is just dumb for more reasons than i care to describe. lol at standing lasers.

 

[Tomacawk]

Also, you're last paragraph is just dumb for more reasons than i care to describe. lol at standing lasers.

classic .

 

[unknown522]

I sure hope so. How are you supposed to tell though... And so many people say that in order to beat good falcos you need to learn to powershield.
I did watch two good fox vs. falco sets just to make that post. At least I got something out of it.

yeah it's hard to tell online, but he was being sarcastic.

 

[JPOBS]

classic .

lol i got owned

 

[unknown522]

classic .

timeless..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcKG8T2_jmI

 

[Tomacawk]

That's a good song but Kanye West has no business being associated with those rappers. His verse, *ironically*, is the worst in the song, too.

 

[GOD!]

GOD! i seriously think you're overestimating/theory crafting the potential of anti-powerfshield tactics.

Lol excuse me for thinking of an intelligent and non-technical solution to a potential problem.

And there's nothing wrong with standing on the other side of the map and shooting standing lasers to force action.

 

[unknown522]

That's a good song but Kanye West has no business being associated with those rappers. His verse, *ironically*, is the worst in the song, too.

I agree with that.

 

[ArcNatural]

Lol excuse me for thinking of an intelligent and non-technical solution to a potential problem.

And there's nothing wrong with standing on the other side of the map and shooting standing lasers to force action.

No there isn't except for how slow this is compared to just staying in one spot and shl instead.

 

[CalamityofCox]

this match up is so lawl
so much shine

 

[jugfingers]

one of my friends just showed me how to nair shine pressure fox's shield with falco so that it's impossible to upsmash out of shield.




lol. yep.

 

[Yineinjeru]

falco is just better than fox period =/ hes anti-fox his lasers r better he has more combo's he has a **** chain grap and hes just good its like they made falco to beat fox and fox is a cool char. i went to mlg and i saw no fox's i faced a fox and beat him with my falco. I mean he did almost beat me but i just had the chain grap and blocked his laser and spiked him....

 

[Yineinjeru]

one of my friends just showed me how to nair shine pressure fox's shield with falco so that it's impossible to upsmash out of shield.




lol. yep.

how do u do that??


sry for double posting

 

[jugfingers]

you do a shffl'd nair into the shield and then shine and then sh back while nairing so that your hitting the shield the whole time, I dunno I guess thats how mango pressures wit falco, but since your shield is constantly being attacked your constantly in hitstun and thus cannot usmash oos shield

 

[Yineinjeru]

you do a shffl'd nair into the shield and then shine and then sh back while nairing so that your hitting the shield the whole time, I dunno I guess thats how mango pressures wit falco, but since your shield is constantly being attacked your constantly in hitstun and thus cannot usmash oos shield

ohh is that for brawl or melee??

 

[Animal]

falco wins the matchup. Although my fox eats falcos for breakfast so idk.

 

[SwiftBass]

sounds tasty

 

[RaynEX]

stuff

Fox is the better character. He does better against the rest of the cast. Falco beats Fox in this particular match-up, though. You can d.i. away to escape Falco's dthrow "chain-grab".

you do a shffl'd nair into the shield and then shine and then sh back while nairing so that your hitting the shield the whole time, I dunno I guess thats how mango pressures wit falco, but since your shield is constantly being attacked your constantly in hitstun and thus cannot usmash oos shield

They wouldn't have to usmash out of shield if you did this everytime; the Fox could just wait for you to jump back and WD oos and escape. Nairing oos(hine) with retreating d.i. is good to bait grabs and avoid oos punishment, but it technically ends the shield pressure. Mango uses it alot to bait his opponent's moves oss and fsmash. If you're jumping backwards out of the range for usmash/shine to hit you, then you're effectively limiting your pressure options. You would now be too far to shine, and if they don't fall for the bait (aka retaliate oos) they can escape. You're right, nair has a long, deliciously active hitbox that you can use to keep their shield busy. But the fact that you're hitting so early with it, means their shield stun ends earlier also. By the time you land they'll be able to move as well.

I know its sad, but his shield game isn't perfect.

falco wins the matchup. Although my fox eats falcos for breakfast so idk.

I want to see you vs. a good Falco.

 

[Animal]

Only got 2 stocked by mangos, ya thats right..im bragging about a loss haha

 

[JPOBS]

man, falco's sheild pressure sucks.

its annoying playing against people who have massive experience vs falco cuz everything you do as falco can be countered in a number of ways and his sheild pressure has so many flaws.

i like fox so much better <3

 

[jugfingers]

Fox is the better character. He does better against the rest of the cast. Falco beats Fox in this particular match-up, though. You can d.i. away to escape Falco's dthrow "chain-grab".





They wouldn't have to usmash out of shield if you did this everytime; the Fox could just wait for you to jump back and WD oos and escape. Nairing oos(hine) with retreating d.i. is good to bait grabs and avoid oos punishment, but it technically ends the shield pressure. Mango uses it alot to bait his opponent's moves oss and fsmash. If you're jumping backwards out of the range for usmash/shine to hit you, then you're effectively limiting your pressure options. You would now be too far to shine, and if they don't fall for the bait (aka retaliate oos) they can escape. You're right, nair has a long, deliciously active hitbox that you can use to keep their shield busy. But the fact that you're hitting so early with it, means their shield stun ends earlier also. By the time you land they'll be able to move as well.

I know its sad, but his shield game isn't perfect.

thank you that was very informative.

 

[fLoAtiN]

They wouldn't have to usmash out of shield if you did this everytime; the Fox could just wait for you to jump back and WD oos and escape. Nairing oos(hine) with retreating d.i. is good to bait grabs and avoid oos punishment, but it technically ends the shield pressure. Mango uses it alot to bait his opponent's moves oss and fsmash. If you're jumping backwards out of the range for usmash/shine to hit you, then you're effectively limiting your pressure options. You would now be too far to shine, and if they don't fall for the bait (aka retaliate oos) they can escape. You're right, nair has a long, deliciously active hitbox that you can use to keep their shield busy. But the fact that you're hitting so early with it, means their shield stun ends earlier also. By the time you land they'll be able to move as well.

Yea that was really helpful. thanks.
But isn't fox better at pressuring shield? Like if fox was the one pressuring falco with nair oos(hine) and then DIing backwards to avoid the grab/jc oos shine, wouldn't it be more effective than falco doing the same thing against fox's shield?

 

[unknown522]

some awesomely funny posts here.

 

[NJzFinest]

Can't Fox not pressure Falco and vice versa cause of gay *** shine-out-of-shield?

Also, when Falco SHL towards me and is about to SH aerial shine, I like to Upsmash OoS in between the SHL and SH aerial. Dunno why it works, but yeah.