~ Fairy Fountain Research Thread: buhbye ol' chum ~

[MrEh]

Poor Zelda is just so underwhelming compared to other characters.

MK is like Photoshop. Zelda is like construction paper and a bunch of crayons.

Lol. Thanks MrEh, I'll be sure to incorporate this into my game. =P

Can't see why not. It's amazing.

 

[KayLo!]

MK is like Photoshop. Zelda is like construction paper and a bunch of crayons.

Rofl, I'm so ****ing tempted to sig that. That's too funny. XD

adum, where you at? You got into BBR for "research," amirite? Research me some new Zelda tricks, NOW.

 

[GodAtHand]

MK is like Photoshop. Zelda is like construction paper and a bunch of crayons.

Having dabbled extensively in both of those creative mediums I can seriously say that they both have their ups and downs.

Nothing beats crayons for serious.

 

[KayLo!]

Sooo, I'm recruiting the help of Veril so I can finish the basic frame data for Zelda and dig a little deeper into the rest of her info: frame advantages, potential combos, things like that. He seems to be pretty godly at it.

I need SOMETHING new to do with her, even if it doesn't involve actually playing.

 

[Bandit]

I was going to ask how to do that stuff... aaaaaaaaaaaaaand I got so busy I don't have time for anything.

 

[KayLo!]

If you happen to get some free time and wanna help, I'll fwd you any info he gives me.

I'm on sort of a weird hiatus where I'm not working and only have two classes during the week, so I have way too much free time apart from tournies + going out on the weekends.

 

[Darkmusician]

lol Get beasted crayons.

 

[Kataefi]

Kaylo forward me stufff!

Also when the guide comes... (if it EVER DOES ), I'm going to dump the OP of this into the 2nd/3rd slots. I like managing this thread. 2 threads, 1 cup... simple! .........

 

[KayLo!]

What do you mean the 2nd/3rd slots?

 

[Kataefi]

2nd/3rd posts! Probably the 3rd if the guide takes up 2 posts!

 

[KayLo!]

Uhhh. x.x I guess that works? Not sure why you'd wanna combine the two.

As long as I'm OP of the guide so I can edit it, I dun care.

 

[Kataefi]

Yeah that's fine!

 

[Veril]

If you happen to get some free time and wanna help, I'll fwd you any info he gives me.

Mah secrets...

lol

This thread is truly quite impressive, if I played Zelda or vBrawl at all really I would be all over contributing to this. The d-tilt adv data is already better than the majority of frame data analysis I've seen but it is not perfect yet. I've already PMed you what I think should be done.

Sooo, I'm recruiting the help of Veril so I can finish the basic frame data for Zelda and dig a little deeper into the rest of her info: frame advantages, potential combos, things like that. He seems to be pretty godly at it.

Thanks. I appreciate what you are doing for the Jiggs boards and am glad to help you with research. Too bad you don't play B+... do you? You should ;p

 

[KayLo!]

Your secrets are not safe with me.

The d-tilt adv data is already better than the majority of frame data analysis I've seen but it is not perfect yet. I've already PMed you what I think should be done.

Yeah, I had a feeling I'd have to go over the dtilt stuff again. I'm glad I know what to do now!

 

[00000]

Is there a hitbox video for Zelda?

 

[KayLo!]

Is there a hitbox video for Zelda?

No, but here's a post showing all of her hitboxes:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8904458&postcount=61

 

[00000]

After testing it, I think that nair has an upward trajectory when you use it directly on top of the opponent (1 hit). That is, the middle hitbox.

 

[KayLo!]

After testing it, I think that nair has an upward trajectory when you use it directly on top of the opponent (1 hit).

You're madd late.

Interesting mechanics of Nair!

There are 5 hits to the move, with the 5th one having knockback. The first 4 hits have no knockback growth and cannot be DI'd or SDI'd. As such any follow-ups are guaranteed based on these 4 prior hits. This is known as following up on an autocancelled Nair. A number of trajectories have been found:

* Low trajectory A
* Low trajectory B (from a higher position off the ground)
* Straight up trajectory
* Straight down trajectory

 

[00000]

You're madd late.

I saw that, but it didn't say how to do it. That is, under which conditions the trajectory is achieved.

 

[Kataefi]

hi guys! a japanese player has been doing some testing and discovered you can get a sneaky bair when someone does a getup attack from the ledge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S-Qfs0jLsQ

 

[NinjaLink]

hi guys! a japanese player has been doing some testing and discovered you can get a sneaky bair when someone does a getup attack from the ledge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S-Qfs0jLsQ

Super late beyond belief lol

-runs-

 

[Kataefi]

but I didn't know it

 

[GodAtHand]

All the situational stuff like that should go in that guide that we are totally still working on... right?

 

[Kataefi]

I think the previous guide-to-be, which might still happen, can be looked back as a stepping stone for us to get together and brainstorm more ideas and be a little more prepared... because I think the reason it probably isn't coming is because the responsibility of holding an entire character's [teeny tiny] metagame can be a bit of a mission.

Actually, I think to drum up some activity we can restart the project altogether and make something amazing. Let me start a group - I've always wanted to start one.

 

[KayLo!]

That's not the reason at all, lol. Zelda's so-called metagame is pretty easy to understand and put together into a guide.

Just haven't had the time/motivation, tbqh. But if someone else wants to take the reigns, I'll probably just fwd the draft to someone and let it get finished.

It's almost complete btw. Like..... it literally just needs a few videos recorded, and it'll be done.

 

[Kataefi]

By "mission", I mean we gave you sole responsibility to 'publish' the guide, and us burderning you with that and so losing your motiviation is exactly what my post is saying.

 

[MrEh]

All the situational stuff like that should go in that guide that we are totally still working on... right?

Situational and gimmicky tricks...in a GUIDE?

You'd figure that people would want to learn basics first. You know...things that actually work.

 

[GodAtHand]

^ of course, but at the end of the guide people might enjoy that kinda stuff. Once you learn the basics it's time to learn the situational stuff!

 

[KayLo!]

Yeah, wtf. Just put them in a section at the end, not that hard.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

That bair thing was awesome. I'd love to see more of those types of situational stuff for Zelda users who already know thier way around her ridiculously linear metagame. (Badly woirded but w/e)

Tricks are fun.

 

[Wolfric]

There's a way you guys can make the Guide short and self-explanatory. "Learn how to use Zelda with just one step! Down B, if done right, you'll see how amazing it is! She gets faster, his missiles actually WORK! And not to mention her many aproaching options! And much more!"

 

[KayLo!]

I feel lied to.

Kataefi, you had me believing that nair autocancels...... it doesn't, lol. What we've been calling an "autocanceled nair" isn't really an autocancel, it's just that nair has pretty low landing lag (12 frames).

I knew something seemed fishy, but it took me madd long to actually bother with looking into it.

You fiend!

 

[Darkmusician]

I feel lied to.

Kataefi, you had me believing that nair autocancels...... it doesn't, lol. What we've been calling an "autocanceled nair" isn't really an autocancel, it's just that nair has pretty low landing lag (12 frames).

I knew something seemed fishy, but it took me madd long to actually bother with looking into it.

You fiend!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12vHF6WC6z4

 

[Kataefi]

Muahahaaaa!

But no my face is lke this atm: =O

I always thought autocancelling was landing mid-attack without experiencing some horrid amount of lag... like nair autocancels mid-attack but if you do it with, say, dair/bair/fair you get his huge afterlag. I'll change this up then and we can call it... landing nair? That sounds good. Also this thread will be de-stickied soon. Are you online now btw?

 

[KayLo!]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12vHF6WC6z4

LOL. Knowing exactly which movie it came from makes it so much better.

Muahahaaaa!

But no my face is lke this atm: =O

I always thought autocancelling was landing mid-attack without experiencing some horrid amount of lag... like nair autocancels mid-attack but if you do it with, say, dair/bair/fair you get his huge afterlag. I'll change this up then and we can call it... landing nair? That sounds good. Also this thread will be de-stickied soon. Are you online now btw?

Autocanceling is landing during an aerial so that you get no lag besides normal landing frames. Usually happens during startup or cooldown so that you can autocancel aerials on a SH or FH.

The LKs are just cursed with bad landing lag..... nair's is fairly low at 12. (The lowest any aerial in the game has is 9.)

& yeah, I'm on AIM atm.

Now that I'm back into research, I'm learning a lot that I was either misinformed about or simply didn't know. @.@

EDIT: @AL: I forget which thread it was where I told you that jab isn't safe against ICs' shield..... I take that back. It barely is, but it is at absolute-you-better-not-****-this-****-up-maximum range.

 

[MrEh]

I knew something was up when I was able to punish Nair so easily.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

LOL. Knowing exactly which movie it came from makes it so much better.





EDIT: @AL: I forget which thread it was where I told you that jab isn't safe against ICs' shield..... I take that back. It barely is, but it is at absolute-you-better-not-****-this-****-up-maximum range.

Ah, I see I thought it was safe but thought I could of been wrong because I tend to forget things at my old age. *shrugs* Good to know that Zelda's jab is at least pretty useful. At least in that regard.

 

[KayLo!]

The main problem vs. ICs -- as far as shield safety goes -- is that Nana and Popo operate separately, so sometimes you might hit Popo's normal shield but Nana will pshield and be able to punish. It really depends on how desynced they are and how good the ICs player is at reacting with both characters.

Fsmash is the safest tho since it has so much range/push.... it's just ridiculously slow to start up.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

The main problem vs. ICs -- as far as shield safety goes -- is that Nana and Popo operate separately, so sometimes you might hit Popo's normal shield but Nana will pshield and be able to punish. It really depends on how desynced they are and how good the ICs player is at reacting with both characters.

Fsmash is the safest tho since it has so much range/push.... it's just ridiculously slow to start up.

yeah all of her moves are slow on start up or have a lot of ending lag. It'd be great if it hit on like frame 8.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

just a quick question about jab and the follows ups. Do all the hits of jab need to hit for me to be able to have a dahs grab follow up or if I space it and hits with only the last move will I still be able to follow up on the jab ?