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~ Fairy Fountain Research Thread: buhbye ol' chum ~
- Thread starter Kataefi
- Start date
- Status
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
can I just connect with the last hit and still have the jab shenanigans ?
Fuujin
Smash Champion
If it involves her 12 frame grab is it really worth mentioning?
Yes because her dtilt trips.
What? How?
Also about the autocancelling thing, I always thought autocancelling is landing when a hitbox of the move isn't out. Or something.
Fuujin
Smash Champion
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
It's not impossible to land a dtilt on Wario.
GodAtHand
Smash Lord
Do you PG away from him? Or to the other side of him. I don't have a wii so I can't try, but I still want to know.
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
I'll test it in frame advance when I get home.
Pretty sure pivot grabbing in place wouldn't move you forward far enough.
Pretty sure pivot grabbing in place wouldn't move you forward far enough.
MrEh
Smash Hero
This isn't easy. I've tried it a ways back. I'm sure you can pivot grab in place and still grab Wario, but I'm not sure if Zelda's grab is high enough to give you a large enough window to make this believable in an actual match. (Similar to Ike and Bowser's grab release infinities on Wario. Possible, but not usable.) Even if the frames did work out to where this is possible, Wario will be able to mash out under 50% after the first regrab. Wario getting a ground release is is a big slap to the face. :/
It's not impossible to beat MK with Ganon either. That's not the point.
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
*sigh* so now landing a dtilt on Wario can be comparable to ganon beating MK....when did zelda get so bad.
I don't know if I should be sadden for Zelda or impressed by Wario *shrugs*
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
The GR infinite doesn't work. For one, like MrEh said, he can mash out. And he can jump out of it pretty easily..... her grab doesn't have nearly enough vertical range.
@MrEh: You definitely can't pivot grab in place and grab him..... and by in place, I mean dashing for one frame before inputting the pivot grab. You gotta dash for a decent bit before you can pivot or you'll end up with your back to him.
@MrEh: You definitely can't pivot grab in place and grab him..... and by in place, I mean dashing for one frame before inputting the pivot grab. You gotta dash for a decent bit before you can pivot or you'll end up with your back to him.
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
pretty sure your pivot grab stuff is wrong.
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
Uh. What pivot grab stuff?
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
Sure. Might as well since I'm in frame advance already.
MrEh
Smash Hero
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
!
First, @Mars: Sheik can't GR infinite Wario, but she gets very close to it. She has the frame advantage to do it, but because she leans down when she grabs, she loses vertical range.... her grab will whiff underneath him on all frames leading up to and past when he's able to jump.
It's possible to get the grab if Wario is late with his jump, but it's not technically guaranteed. I had K Prime double check me on it just to make sure.
Btw, I checked for both her pivot grab and her walk > standing grab.
Here's the frame map if you're interested:
BUT FOR ZELDA!
So I realized that we can't pivot grab Wario because we're too slow, but we can guaranteed walk > standing grab CG Wario on an air release.
This means that at low percentages, we can CG him to the ledge, then air release him into a guaranteed sweetspot dair. The dair can be either full or short hopped. (Thanks to Prime for testing dair. <3) At higher percentages, we can add a pummel per grab for extra damage..... then at the end, we can take him to the ledge for a spike or do the usual GR > sweetspot fair.
Pummeling at low percentages is not recommended. If Wario breaks during a pummel, he will ground release.
Obviously platforms and stage shenanigans can get in the way as well.
It's not much, but it's nice to know that you have the option when you're on a flat piece of stage.
Frame map:
This could've been known already for all I know, but I don't remember reading about it anywhere. =X
First, @Mars: Sheik can't GR infinite Wario, but she gets very close to it. She has the frame advantage to do it, but because she leans down when she grabs, she loses vertical range.... her grab will whiff underneath him on all frames leading up to and past when he's able to jump.
It's possible to get the grab if Wario is late with his jump, but it's not technically guaranteed. I had K Prime double check me on it just to make sure.
Btw, I checked for both her pivot grab and her walk > standing grab.
Here's the frame map if you're interested:
Code:
00 : input grab
06 : grab initiated
96 : grab release animation begins
125 : Sheik IASA
146 : Wario IASASo I realized that we can't pivot grab Wario because we're too slow, but we can guaranteed walk > standing grab CG Wario on an air release.
This means that at low percentages, we can CG him to the ledge, then air release him into a guaranteed sweetspot dair. The dair can be either full or short hopped. (Thanks to Prime for testing dair. <3) At higher percentages, we can add a pummel per grab for extra damage..... then at the end, we can take him to the ledge for a spike or do the usual GR > sweetspot fair.
Pummeling at low percentages is not recommended. If Wario breaks during a pummel, he will ground release.
Obviously platforms and stage shenanigans can get in the way as well.
It's not much, but it's nice to know that you have the option when you're on a flat piece of stage.
Frame map:
Code:
00 : input grab
12 : grab initiated
102 : grab release animation begins
131 : Zelda IASA
152 : Wario IASAMrEh
Smash Hero
I think it was mentioned a looooong time ago, but I certainly can't remember for sure. lol
Nice to know anyway.
Nice to know anyway.
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
I thought it might've been semi-discovered a while ago (probably before I was around), but a lot of techniques and stuff around here seem to be fuzzy as far as whether they're guaranteed or not. Trying to clarify those things as much as possible.
If there's anything else you guys want me to test, I'll be more than happy to.
Trying to clarify those things as much as possible.If there's anything else you guys want me to test, I'll be more than happy to.
GodAtHand
Smash Lord
Thanks Kaylo! That's fun to know.
Half-Split Soul
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2008
- Messages
- 1,686
Now someone better come up with a sure and easy setup for the grab next so that we can start abusing this...
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
FF Nair > dtilt > grab > **** ?
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
That would require Wario to be on the ground, which doesn't happen very often, lol.
Kata, you should give me this thread. (Or let me make a new one......) Just sayin. =X
Kata, you should give me this thread. (Or let me make a new one......) Just sayin. =X
MrEh
Smash Hero
It's difficult to do. Not something that can be abused.
It's no more viable then Bowser or Ike regrabbing Wario from a grab.
GodAtHand
Smash Lord
Grabs on Wario do happen... Powershield something up close, Get a dtilt, Predict him decently. They all lead to a grab...
Yea people seem to forget that Wario has to shield every once in a while. There's always this "Wario doesn't get grabbed" saying that gets thrown around a lot......then I hit up youtube and watch Warios get ***** by GR's lol.
Although Zelda does have terrible grab speed so it makes it difficult but not impossible. If the Wario is spotdodging a lot then run up and usmash......next time he might instead choose to shield.
Although Zelda does have terrible grab speed so it makes it difficult but not impossible. If the Wario is spotdodging a lot then run up and usmash......next time he might instead choose to shield.
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
I wouldn't say he get's *****. The only difference between the majority of the cast and Zelda is her obnoxiously long start up on her grab. If her grab was lets say 9 frames like snake or 7 frames like a normal character she'd be able to do it. As it stand she can't even grab Wario off his bike nor can she even shield his Fsmash and then grab him . I think the community pouts way too much of an importance of Wario's GR.
MrEh
Smash Hero
Even if Zelda could get the grab all the time, the window of the regrab is still outrageously small. It's not humanly possible to do this consistently across the stage just for the positioning.
Simply put, just kick him.
Simply put, just kick him.
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
No they don't. Marth and sheik have GR options on them but thats it. It's not **** it's just an option. You may want to start understanding this before you start over estimating ****. FYI I know all of Marth options on MK after a GR same goes for sheik. That includes the spike Marth has on MK as a GR option. If you want to claim these options as **** then go ahead. They come far and few in between. Also your "****" move is dependent on my spacing or my mistake. Trust and believe if I don't want you to grab me you wont.
GodAtHand
Smash Lord
Kaylo! Sometimes after I dtilt lock someone and they aren't DIing it as succesfully as I expect them to I like to walk a step after each trip and start dtiliting again... Can you find out how long I have to do this? Like how long does it take Zelda to stand up and walk a step after a dtilt?
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