Expanding The Kingdom: Weekly Dedede Stage Discussion (Week 12 - Pokémon Stadium 2)

[Dream Land Works]

Well since I haven't seen a single one of these in the D3 section, I decided to start one. I just hope we get some good discussions going on for each stage.

So basically how this will work is each week I will update the thread with the results from a discussion about the last stage we discussed and post a new stage to discuss. The point of this thread is to tell people of what stages they could do very well on, which stages are not that good for D3, some general strategies you can pull off on the stages, and who to counter pick certain stages against.

Now for an example of how I want to template the stages are

Name:
How Good Is The Stage For Dedede (Using 1-5, 1 being terrible, 5 being amazing.):
Who To Counter Pick This Stage Against:
Who To Strike This Stage Against:
Who To Ban This Stage Against:
General Strategies On The Stage:

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Current Stage Discussion

We are returning to the Pokémon Arena, but this time we are in the brand new version. Normal ledges, transformations that effect the game, seems like a strange trade off and it might cause this version of Pokémon Stadium to not be as great for D3 as its Melee counterpart.

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Stages Discussed

Battlefield (Thanks to sMexy-Blu for this summary.)

Rating:

Pros:

• Platforms let you avoid projectile spam.
• Easy to land kill moves.

Cons:

• Has the highest stage ceiling out of the Neutral Stages.
• Hard recovering without being punished.
• DeDeDe gets punished easily by platforms.
• Can't exploit platforms as good as other characters.

Counterpick Against:

Strike Against:

Ban Against:

NOTES: Battlefield is rather small and it doesn't encourage projectile spamming because platforms block most. This stage is good overall against characters that love to spam their projectiles over and over again just like Pikachu and Falco but keep in mind they can abuse the platforms better than you in a lot of ways.

Some people tend to camp on the platforms to avoid King DeDeDe's chaingrab but that is a bad mistake... U-tilt hits through platforms helping you get easier kills if your opponent is above the platform so that won't be a major problem.

Recovering in this stage is a pain you almost always have to cancel SDJ early and aim it to the edge or you'll most likely get punished badly. DeDeDe can also do lagless aerials into a platform to stop aerial approaches or a enemy trying to get back to the floor, just full hop into the platform while hitting the C-stick for the aerial you want and you'll perform the attack and land on the platform without lag this can only be used with Uair or Dair. This stage isn't bad for DeDeDe but also not good for him.​

__________

Smashville

Rating:

Pros:

• King Dedede can easily abuse the moving platform.
• Long enough to allow a good chain grab.
• Length makes it easier to avoid campers.
• Dedede can use his aerials very well on the stage.
• Lowest stage ceiling in common neutrals.

Cons:

• Moving platform helps characters with vertical recoveries.
• Some characters can abuse the platform more than King Dedede.
• Long length allows characters to camp more.

Counterpick Against:

Strike Against:

Ban Against: N/A

NOTES: Smashville is a medium-long stage which allows Dedede to chain grab long enough to rack up good enough damage that could turn matches around. The moving platform can let Dedede cancel aerials so that you can abuse your aerials more and it has a low ceiling which means earlier kills.

This stage can somewhat help campers, but also gives Dedede the tools he needs to counter campers. The length can be used by campers to avoid getting attacked longer, but the moving platform allows for a safe approach against a camper. Also the stage length allows F-tilt and Waddles to counter out projectiles without letting Dedede getting too punished.

Dedede also makes use of the moving platform in other ways. Being under the platform while a character is on top of it allows for a nice U-tilt KO. Near the end of the stage while both you and your opponent are on the platform, a simple B-air, F-air, B-throw, or F-throw could KO opponents. Also if the character can be chain grabbed, Dedede can infinite grab that character in the direction the platform is moving. While the platform does allow Dedede to do much more, it can be abused more by some characters.

Overall this stage seems like a favorite to Dedede players, especially for a neutral.

​

__________

Yoshi's Island

Rating:

Pros:

• Good stage against characters Dedede can't chain grab.
• The moving platform can set up aerials and U-tilts.
• Flat walls allow for a constant chance to stage spike.
• Tilted edge allows you land F-Smash easier.

Cons:

• Ghosts help characters with vertical recoveries and hurt WoP.
• Platform allows for evasion from chain grabs.
• The stage's steep shape and short length make it bad for chain grabs.
• Shy Guys can interfere with gimping.

Counterpick Against: N/A

Strike Against:

Ban Against: N/A

NOTES: Yoshi's Island is a stage with some unique features, some which help Dedede, some that help other characters more, or some that just hurt Dedede pretty hard. The shape of the stage helps Dedede by making F-Smash kills on recovering characters easier, but the shape also makes chain grabs not as good as they could be.

The moving platform above allows for aerial setups and U-tilt setups, but it can allow characters who can be chain grabbed avoid getting grabbed. The Shy Guys that appear from time to time can be used to freshen your attacks by attacking them with aerials, but if you are trying to edgeguard a character, they can get in the way.

The ghosts with platforms on their heads are really no help to Dedede, but they help characters like Ike who have a pretty bad recovery. This makes gimping more difficult than it needs to be.

One of the major ups about this stage is that its small size allows for some good tech chasing against characters you can't chain grab. There however are better choices than this stage and with all the problems, this is one stage that is dislikable.

__________

Lylat Cruise

Rating:

Pros:

• Second lowest ceiling out of the neutrals.
• Platforms set up kill moves.
• Large horizontal boundaries allowing Dedede to live longer than normal.
• Thin enough to allow you to use aerials through the stage.
• Large enough to rack up good damage in chain grabs.
• Tilting stage can help with gimping.

Cons:

• Tilting can interfere with chain grabs.
• Recovery can be hard if you get stuck under the stage somehow.
• Some characters do a lot better here than Dedede.
• Characters with long ranged spikes can spike you while they are on the stage.
• Good stage for characters with tether recoveries.

Counterpick Against:

Strike Against:

Ban Against:

NOTES: Lylat Cruise is a medium sized stage with three platforms and the stage tilts. This stage seems very similar to Battlefield, but when you look deeper... this stage has a lot going for it. First off, Dedede can survive on this stage for a long time. The ceiling is low which doesn't hurt D3 at all because of him being so heavy and the horizontal borders being large helps Dedede.

The platforms really help Dedede for setting up U-Tilts and aerials and they don't really help enemies camping as much as Battlefield's platforms.

The stage is long enough to allow for good chain grabs, but the tilting can mess up the chain grab at times. The tilting also helps with gimping enemies, especially those with bad recoveries. Ironic that this is a great counterpick stage against all the Star Fox characters. Defiantly ban this against Snake, but Meta Knight has some better options, so don't waste your ban on Lylat Cruise if you are playing against a MK.
​

__________

Final Destination

Rating:

Pros:

• A low stage ceiling.
• Great length for chain grabbing.
• Length makes the most of out Dedede's spacing game.
• The lip on each end allows for stage spikes.
• No platforms for people to abuse.

Cons:

• Campers and projectile users have more room to avoid Dedede.
• Characters with better ground control are going to get much more advantage from the stage.

Counterpick Against:

Strike Against:

Ban Against:

NOTES: Final Destination is a long flat stage with curved lips to edges. The length of the stage allows for King Dedede to get in great chain grabs to deal in damage and the length makes Dedede's step chain grabs almost broken. The length also allows Dedede to use his spacing and ground game very well. A problem due to the length though is that characters with good camping ability are going to be able to camp from a farther distance. Another problem with the length is that characters who control the ground, such as Diddy Kong, are going to have more room to work with.

The lips under the ledges allow for some good stage spiking and other edgeguarding shinanigans plus it makes it so that characters with bad recoveries are going to have a harder time getting back to the stage.

Characters who depend on air camping or aerial control are also going to have a problem here because there are no platforms for them to use. While some D3 players like to use platforms to set up U-tilt kills, it truly isn't that difficult without them and the low ceiling of Final Destination will truly make U-tilts pay off.

__________

Pokémon Stadium 1

Rating: <-- WTF?!

Pros:

• Length allows for long chain grabs.
• Walls allow for infinite wall grabs while they are on the stage.
• Some transformations allow for Dedede to avoid spammers.
• King Dedede can F-tilt through a lot of the obstacles.
• The strange ledges effect enemies a lot more than they do D3.

Cons:

• Average ceiling height.
• Some transformations force Dedede into close combat.

Counterpick Against: Every character you can chain grab.

Strike Against:

Ban Against: N/A

NOTES: This stage is one of the best stages for King Dedede, depending on who your opponent is using. The stage length allows for good chain grabs, but the average height of the ceiling doesn't allow for the early kills that we crave so much.

The neutral version of this stage and all the transformations have platforms which allow for set ups to U-tilts or an aerial. Also, two of the transformations have walls, which allow for infinite grabs on each character that you can chain grab as long as that wall is there.

All of the transformations have some sort of obstacle that Dedede can use to avoid campers or Diddy Kong's bananas and he can also put his hammer through the obstalces by using F-tilt. A problem with some obstacles is that they force Dedede into close combat. If the enemy is better at close combat, then they rack up a lot of damage on you and even get a kill if you don't find a way to avoid it.

Finally, the ledges cause some strange gimps due to them being places at the angle as the walls and if they angle the recovery wrong, they can get trapped under the stage. King Dedede doesn't have to worry about this as much as other characters and this also allows for more gimping options, such as getting the enemy under the stage and then making your way back up.

Truly a good stage to pick, but if your opponent is a character you can't CG, you may run into more problems than you usually would against them.

__________

Delfino Plaza

Rating:

Pros:

• Walls allow for infinite wall grabs while you are a part of the stage with them.
• Walk offs allow for chain grabs to deaths.
• King Dedede's recovery is good enough to keep up with the intermissions if you don't get on them right away.
• Some of the platforms allow for U-tilt kills.
• Dedede can spike unsuspecting enemies with the Super Dedede Jump at the deep water parts of the stage.
• Close borders on the sides allow for early KO's.

Cons:

• Enemies with aerial spikes will have an easier time spiking Dedede under the water.
• Faster enemies will be avoid you on the longer parts of the stage.

Counterpick Against:

Ban Against:

NOTES: Call it laziness if you want (me just putting this for notes), but this is an amazing summary for the stage http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7135504&postcount=88.

__________

Halberd

Rating:

Pros:

• Low ceiling allows for early kills.
• You can attack through the moving platform that takes you to the Halberd ship.
• The launch point has a walk off.
• The ship has a lot of room to Chain Grab.
• There's a platform to set up U-Tilt kills.
• The lips on the ship allow for easier gimps.

Cons:

• Some characters have vertical kill moves that can kill D3 faster.
• Fast enemies can abuse the small length of the moving platform to force you into close combat.

Counterpick Against:

Ban Against: N/A

NOTES: As the stage starts off, you will be at the launching point for the Halberd. At this point, there is a walk off, which if you are quick enough to exploit, you can CG an enemies or get a horizontal kill in another fashion to get a quick kill from the start.

Once the Halberd launches, you will be on a platform with ledges and a platform above it. Here you can attack through the both platforms which can be very helpful for a surprise attack with U-air, B-air, or F-air. You can also you the normal platform above you to set up for U-tilt kills. The short length of intermission can also allow for easier tech chasing, but some characters that can out fight you in close combat can take advantage of the small length if you aren't careful.

When you finally arrive to the Halberd ship itself, there will be a short moment of time where you can drop off onto the ship and attack your enemy through the intermission platform before it goes under the stage. At this point, you will have a long stage to work with and you still keep the normal platform from the intermission, meaning more U-tilt setups. The long stage allows for you to avoid close combat, but characters that can out camp Dedede can take advantage of this. The length also allows for longer chain grabs.

When you can get an enemy off the stage, you can gimp them using the strange lip to trap them under the stage or to get a stage spike. There are also two attacks the stage performs. The first one has an arm that will single out a player and attack them. You can use by staying close to your opponent and then shielding when it attacks so that you block the hit while your enemy gets attacked. The second attack is a laser cannon. The laser aims for the character with the higher percent of damage. If the laser is being aimed at you, chase after an opponent until the laser fires off and then throw your enemy into the laser. If your opponent is the target, try to keep a distance and if they avoid the laser when it goes off, try to throw them into it.

Overall this is a good stage for Dedede and has the 3rd highest ceiling allowing for early kills, which is always great for us.

__________

Castle Siege

Rating:

Pros:

• Gimps can be pulled off pretty easily on the first part of the stage.
• There are walk offs during the intermissions and the second stage.
• The length on the second and third parts of the stage allow you to avoid projectile spam.
• The third stage allows for decent sized chain grabs and gimping.
• Down Throw spikes on the intermission to the third stage is another easy kill.

Cons:

• Some characters can platform camp on the second stage.
• Second stage has a high ceiling.
• Enemies can abuse the statues on the second stage to extend hitboxes.

Counterpick Against:

Ban Against:

NOTES: The first part of the stage is on top of the castle. Here there are two platforms, a slope, and a strange set up under the stage. This part isn't that great for Dedede and seems like an even smaller Battlefield, but you can use the set up of the ledges and the walls under the stage to land some fairy easy gimps.

After this part of the stage, you will go through a falling intermission where you have a wide open stage with walk offs and no platforms. This will be a good place to land CG and other sort of throw kills.

Once you reach the second stage, try to keep your enemy grounded so they don't platform camp to avoid King Dedede. You may have a hard time KO'ing characters vertically here, but you still have walk offs which you should use to your advantage.

From here you will go to the second intermission. This is the same as the first, but at the end of movement if King Dedede is holding an opponent, he and the oppenent with fall through the third stage. You can fix this though by down throwing the enemy which will cause them to get stuck under the stage and fall to their death.

The third stage is pretty simple and seems like a slightly smaller Final Destination, but it tilts. Use your general gameplay strategies here that will keep Dedede in the advantage.

Once again you will go through an intermission that is exactly like the first one. You can try to get an enemy on the outer reaches of this intermission to make them unable to recover when you reach the first stage again.

__________

Norfair

Rating:

Pros:

• You can use the inhale glitch to build up damage.
• Easy tech chasing due to the stage and platforms being small.
• Dedede can force enemies into lava fairly easily.
• Low ceiling.

Cons:

• A lot of characters can abuse the platforms more than Dedede.
• You won't be able to use your ground game much.
• You will be forced into close combat unless you camp.

Counterpick Against:

Ban Against:

NOTES: Norfair is a stage that is very platform based so unless you really like going into to the air with Dedede (like me ) you will have a lot of issues and even if you are comfortable with Dedede's air game there are characters who are just better characters when it comes to platforms.

Never go to the safety pod because just like everyone else, Dedede will get punished for going there. If an enemy does go inside the pod, U-airs, F-tilts, and F-Smash are all decent ways to punish.

Due to Dedede's WoP and throws, you can knock your enemy into the lava walls pretty easily which can be helpful to get kills. Dedede also gets easy kills due to the low ceiling.

This stage allows for simple tech chases since your opponent will be stuck on the platform you use your down throw on (unless you Down Throw too close to the edge) so you can get another grab in or use the Buuman Trap.

Finally, a glitch on this stage allows for you to rack up damage. See this post http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7252628&postcount=112 and/or this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzdKALKnTog for details.

__________

Pirate Ship

Rating:

Pros:

• King Dedede can stage spike with B-air on the front of the ship.
• When the ship crashes, you can infinite grab enemies against walls.
• The Red Lion allows for infinite wall grabs into a B-Throw kill.
• Length allows long chain grabs.

Cons:

• Enemies can water camp you.
• Characters with bad recoveries are helped by water.
• Characters with spikes can spike you under water.

Counterpick Against: N/A

Ban Against:

NOTES: Coming...after Apex .
​

 

[Dream Land Works]

Reserved for editing and possibly more stages if more room is needed.

3/5/09 Thread created/Current Discussion: Battlefield.
3/9/09 Battlefield results posted/Current Discussion: Smashville.
3/15/09 Smashville results posted/Current Discussion: Yoshi's Island.
3/22/09 Yoshi's Island results posted/Current Discussion: Lylat Cruise.
3/31/09 Current Discussion: Final Destination
4/2/09 Lylat Cruise results posted.
4/6/09 Final Destination results posted/Current Discussion: Pokémon Stadium 1
4/9/09 Main post reformatted/Pokémon Stadium 1 results posted/Current Discussion: Delfino Plaza.
4/15/09 Delfino Plaza results posted/Current Discussion: Halberd.
4/19/09 Halberd results posted/Current Discussion: Castle Siege.
4/25/09 Castle Siege results posted/Current Discussion: Norfair.
5/03/09 Norfair results posted/Current Discussion: Pirate Ship.
5/07/09 Pirate Ship results posted (without notes, they will be coming after Apex)/Current Discussion: Pokémon Stadium 2.

 

[Mythic02]

For battlefield i would say a 3 or 4. It's neutral so it's good for a lot of people though.

Pros:
Multiple platforms let's you avoid straight projectile spam (falco mainly)
You can platform camp because the waddle dees fall.
Generally open area allows for chain grab.
You can U-tilt through the platforms

Cons:
People can get away from waddle dee camp due to platforms.
People can go on platforms to avoid chain grabs.

Overall good stage, but not exceptional. Use it against happy campers.

Use it against: Pikachu, Falco, Maybe Olimar (Platforms help avoid campers.) and diddy (avoid bananas with platforms.)

Avoid: Maybe snake (His U tilt is killer and his projectiles aren't stopped by platforms)

 

[sMexy-Blu]

Stage Rating:

Strategies: Good against campers but DeDeDe usually gets punished by those platforms. The platforms let you chaingrab normally so thats not a problem and the platforms can be good at stopping projectiles but when landing from the air you could get hit easily if your opponent is below you. You can also do lagless aerials into a platform mainly Uair & Dair, just full hop into the platform while hitting the C-stick Up (for an Uair) or Down (for a Dair).

Ban against:

Counter Pick against:

NOTES: Its hard to safely recover in this stage specially against a Marth because if you don't cancel the SDJ you'll end up in the platform and your opponent most likely will be below you so you'll BE punished and if you always cancel the SDJ early and try to grab the edge you'll get really predictable and smart players will punish you eventually, Not good.

I saw we discuss Delfino Plaza next. <3

 

[Dream Land Works]

Thanks for the input so far.

As for recovering, I personally find it extremely easy to aim the SDJ through the top and one of the side platforms to land in the center of the stage. I am not saying that really fixes much because say if a Marth or Snake were already waiting under a platform and then they shield the star or cancel it with an attack, you are in position for a tipped F-Smash from Marth, an F-tilt from Snake, or a U-tilt from Snake. It is a decent option though and D3 defiantly need options to recover, especially on this small stage.

Also, I am sure we can the stage of walk offs and wall infinites next .

 

[Tero.]

First of all: lawl I was thinking about making a stage discussion thread just today.

Stage Rating:

Strategies: Good against campers but DeDeDe usually gets punished by those platforms. The platforms let you chaingrab normally so thats not a problem and the platforms can be good at stopping projectiles but when landing from the air you could get hit easily if your opponent is below you. You can also do lagless aerials into a platform mainly Uair & Dair, just full hop into the platform while hitting the C-stick Up (for an Uair) or Down (for a Dair).

Ban against:

Counter Pick against:

NOTES: Its hard to safely recover in this stage specially against a Marth because if you don't cancel the SDJ you'll end up in the platform and your opponent most likely will be below you so you'll BE punished and if you always cancel the SDJ early and try to grab the edge you'll get really predictable and smart players will punish you eventually, Not good.

I saw we discuss Delfino Plaza next. <3

^ I agree with most of the stuff there.
Battlefield is fairly neutral, people can get away from your cg's with platform camping tho, which is not that nice.

Rating:

 

[RATED]

battlefield is my fav stage even if I use DDD I feel very comfortable here , I use this stage against kirby , Pikachu, falco and some more. this stage helps a bit with the uptilt setups, regispikes, jumping when opponent is on platform and inhale is free!

 

[Gates]

Am I the only one who doesn't really like this stage? I mean obviously it's not Dedede's worst stage, but I think giving it a 3/5 is stretching it, and giving it a 4 is just wrong.

Platforms help you avoid campers and utilt, this is true. But you have to keep in mind that almost all of the characters whose camping you're trying to avoid can abuse these platforms just as well as you. Falco and Pikachu can Nair into other things, Olimar gets an usmash or an aerial, Diddy can just throw the bananas up at you or use some aerials, and Snake can do lots of things like Grenade bouncing, utilts, aerials, mortars, etc. Against the majority of characters, you don't gain as much from the stage as they do.

Ban against:
Snake - Platforms and C4 spell out bad news for you. Snake can also utilt, Mortar, and nair you on the platforms.
Marth - To be honest, I don't have much experience in this matchup, but I hear Marth ***** on this stage more than usual so I guess I'd ban it.

Strike against*:
Metaknight - The less MK juggles you the better. Nuff said.
Game & Watch - Battlefield is agreed by most to be G&W's best neutral. He can juggle with nair and uair very easily on the two bottom platforms and upB to the top platform in case he does need to make a strategic retreat. I'd actually recommend using your ban on this against Game & Watch if Corneria and Rainbow Cruise aren't legal in your area.
Wario - You may actually want to ban this for all I know. It seems like the platforms will only help his air camping here and if you land on them it makes you an easy target for uair.
Kirby - I disagree with Rated here. Even though I don't have much experience with the matchup, it seems like Kirby will be able to combo you well here with uair and stuff. Platform camping can help you avoid his usmash I guess, but other than that, there's really no reason I can think of to go here.

Counterpick against:
Ice Climbers - ICs have very little vertical range and platform camping here will help you get around their grabs a lot. The reason that this is the only real matchup you should CP this for is simply because it's the one matchup where you can't really play like Dedede (ie. going for grabs, etc.), so you're practically forced to forget everything you know about counterpicking.

Overall: 2.5/5

*In addition to the ban/cp thing, I think you should also have a "strike" section so that people will know who to strike it against during the stage striking procedure. Obviously we can only do this for the neutrals though.

I also think we should keep discussing the "true" neutrals, then move onto the Neutral/CP stages, then the CPs.

 

[Dream Land Works]

I agree with Gates on Battlefield about the stage itself being not that great for D3. Maybe its just me, but with D3, while platforms can be useful they often give an opponent just as much as an advantage plus the recovery problems with the stage are pretty bad since a lot of characters can punish you due to it. I would say its a pretty neutral ground though for D3, just the one I rather not go to.

I personally would defiantly consider banning this stage against Wario, but Brinstar and Norfair are also good stages for Wario.

I think adding Strikes would be fine and while I do see what you mean with the stage order (getting the neutrals out of the way first) I will see what everyone else thinks about stage order first.

 

[Buuman]

Am I the only one who doesn't really like this stage? I mean obviously it's not Dedede's worst stage, but I think giving it a 3/5 is stretching it, and giving it a 4 is just wrong.

Platforms help you avoid campers and utilt, this is true. But you have to keep in mind that almost all of the characters whose camping you're trying to avoid can abuse these platforms just as well as you. Falco and Pikachu can Nair into other things, Olimar gets an usmash or an aerial, Diddy can just throw the bananas up at you or use some aerials, and Snake can do lots of things like Grenade bouncing, utilts, aerials, mortars, etc. Against the majority of characters, you don't gain as much from the stage as they do.

Ban against:
Snake - Platforms and C4 spell out bad news for you. Snake can also utilt, Mortar, and nair you on the platforms.
Marth - To be honest, I don't have much experience in this matchup, but I hear Marth ***** on this stage more than usual so I guess I'd ban it.

Strike against*:
Metaknight - The less MK juggles you the better. Nuff said.
Game & Watch - Battlefield is agreed by most to be G&W's best neutral. He can juggle with nair and uair very easily on the two bottom platforms and upB to the top platform in case he does need to make a strategic retreat. I'd actually recommend using your ban on this against Game & Watch if Corneria and Rainbow Cruise aren't legal in your area.
Wario - You may actually want to ban this for all I know. It seems like the platforms will only help his air camping here and if you land on them it makes you an easy target for uair.
Kirby - I disagree with Rated here. Even though I don't have much experience with the matchup, it seems like Kirby will be able to combo you well here with uair and stuff. Platform camping can help you avoid his usmash I guess, but other than that, there's really no reason I can think of to go here.

Counterpick against:
Ice Climbers - ICs have very little vertical range and platform camping here will help you get around their grabs a lot. The reason that this is the only real matchup you should CP this for is simply because it's the one matchup where you can't really play like Dedede (ie. going for grabs, etc.), so you're practically forced to forget everything you know about counterpicking.

Overall: 2.5/5

*In addition to the ban/cp thing, I think you should also have a "strike" section so that people will know who to strike it against during the stage striking procedure. Obviously we can only do this for the neutrals though.

I also think we should keep discussing the "true" neutrals, then move onto the Neutral/CP stages, then the CPs.

Battlefield can be good or bad really. It's not a BAD stage for D3...however characters favor this stage more then D3 in most cases. Because this is one of my favorite stages as a player, I don't really have too much trouble here. From my experience though

Strike/BAN against:
MetaKnight
Snake - debateable. I personally dont mind this stage too much

ROB - ***** here. When I played HolyKnightmare, and I was on the ledge, and he would camp under the platform with back airs, quite hard to get by.

Kirby - this can be good or bad. Kirby combos well, so platforms help you excape a few juggles, although kirby can use them when you are recovering from about. I wouldnt worry about this stage too much against kirby

Zerosuit - she will combo your *** to hell here

LUCAS - strike this stage against lucas...trust me

Marth - extended hit box = bad combo with platform, strike

 

[TheGungnir]

Mostly everything has been said that i can think of anyway, except if your opponent loves being in the air you can get even earlier % Utilt kills on the lower platforms, or if your lucky the top platform lol. I think the stage is probably a 3/5 for Dedede mainly because I have a hard time setting up good combos with the platforms in the way, and the platforms also make it difficult to descend to the neutral ground of the stage. I absolutely hate trying to recover on this stage... The platforms are so annoying XD

 

[Jupz]

Platforms are good for Dedede because of uptilt, and if you're not directly below someone and there about to land on a platform then you can shfair at them and they can't punish it. 3/5 for D3 imo.

 

[Mythic02]

@gates: battlefield isn't that bad really. Everyone can use aerials on the platroms. dedede can even do lagless aerials which helps him out. Once the characters are starting to do aerials then we know that dedede will when in the air. I think the thing with all neutrals and to a lesser extent all stages, it is just how comfortable you are with the stage. I am very good on the stage with dedede, i'm just guessing you don't use it much.

Tl;dr Get to know the stage. Overall this stage is 3/5.

edit: If we are doing neutrals first I vote for Smashville next.

Also, this thread needs stickied.

 

[Gates]

I've played on Battlefield a ton of times. I will almost never actively pick it if given the choice to. There are a few rare instances where it has helped me, but there are so many more instances where it has helped my opponent more. Dedede just can't exploit platforms as well as other characters. Just look through the suggestions about platforms in this thread. Most of them just say "it's a good way to land utilt". We can't combo on the platforms or exploit them in other ways like other characters can. All we can do is use them to land kill moves.

And I never said it's not an important stage to know. Everyone knows you have to be familiar with all the neutrals.

 

[Commander_Beef]

It was mentioned above, but I am going to say it again.
Bring Falco here for a neutral match!

 

[WingedKnight]

Gates summed it up nice. I'd go the 2.5 as well. Nothing too special here.
That, and the platforms don't allow for a quick Waddle to the face in Sudden Death.

 

[sMexy-Blu]

Took all of the important stuff from this week's discussion and did a summary of it enjoy if I forgot to add something or something is incorrect tell me.
_________

Battlefield

Rating:

Pros:

• Platforms let you avoid projectile spam.
• Easy to land kill moves.

Cons:

• Has the highest stage ceiling out of the Neutral Stages.
• Hard recovering without being punished.
• DeDeDe gets punished easily by platforms.
• Can't exploit platforms as good as other characters.

Counterpick Against:

Strike Against: ?

Ban Against:

NOTES: Battlefield is father small and it doesn't encourage projectile spamming because platforms block most. This stage is good overall against characters that love to spam there projectiles over and over again just like Pikachu and Falco but keep in mind they can abuse the platforms better than you in a lot of ways.

Some people tend to camp on the platforms to avoid King DeDeDe's chaingrab but that is a bad mistake... U-tilt hits through platforms helping you get easier kills if your opponent is above the platform so that won't be a major problem.

Recovering in this stage is a pain you almost always have to cancel SDJ early and aim it to the edge or you'll most likely get punished badly. DeDeDe can also do lagless aerials into a platform to stop aerial approaches or a enemy trying to get back to the floor, just full hop into the platform while hitting the C-stick for the aerial you want and you'll perform the attack and land on the platform without lag this can only be used with Uair or Dair. This stage isn't bad for DeDeDe but also not good for him.​

 

[Dream Land Works]

Uhh thanks for doing the work for me sMexy haha. I was planning on waiting until Wensday, but really, I think we can move on to the next stage because I think we got as much discussion as we are going to get for Battlefield.

 

[Gates]

@ smexy - You forgot ICs under counterpick.

Anyway, Smashville. This stage is great, probably even better neutral than FD. The platform really helps in some situations, including KOing, avoiding campers, the CG trick, etc. but it's also rare enough that your opponent can't use it to **** you. If Pokemon Stadium 1 and Halbered aren't neutrals, this should always be the stage you should strive to play on (except against Wario, see below).

I don't have much to say about this in the way of strikes and counterpicks. I might say to ban it against Wario since they seem to **** on this stage.

Overall, 4/5

 

[Commander_Beef]

As said above, it is better for King Dedede to pick this as a neutral stage other than Final Destination because the platform helps in the matchup versus Snake, Mr Game & Watch, etc. than Final Destination. When I play on here, I feel I have more control over the match at moments. It is probably Smashville is slightly narrower that Final Destination. The balloons might block something too? =D

 

[Gates]

The balloons might block something too? =D

Like what? Grenade bounced really high? PK Thunder? Fully charged mortar?

 

[Coney]

You can go under Smashville.

Don't know why you ever would, considering if you do it perfectly you still just barely grab the opposite ledge. But you can.

Actually come to think of it, could you imagine going under the level, having the opponent try to edgehog you and then landing on the platform?

Mindgaemz.

 

[Gates]

That would be pretty epic. Not gonna lie.

 

[Dream Land Works]

Anyone else have any input? We still need basic stuff like Counter Picks, Strikes, and Bans for Smashville.

 

[sMexy-Blu]

I can't think of anyone I'd ban this against.

Snake ***** here. I'd consider striking it against him and Wario.

Counterpick against IC's, platform camping ***** them.

The moving platform can be really good or really bad it can help you get kills, recover easier, Infinites and other stuff but it can help you enemy too.

 

[Mythic02]

Dedede ***** here. It is my (and a lot of other people's) favorite neutral. If this is possible at all go for it.

Wario does **** here so ban it against him. I wouldn't know about snake though so i'm gonna take Smexy's word for it.

Use it against Ice climbers, and maybe falco so you can get to him by hopping on a platform.

Something's to watch out for here. The platform goes out further than the stage. This helps people with vertical recoveries like ike and marth. This means your WoP isn't going to work as well. On the other hand if it is already far out you can start your WoP and it will be gone when you are done. The platform helps out the spontaneous U-tilt but don't count on it.

I say 4/5

 

[Gates]

I really don't think Snake or Dedede have a particular advantage over the other on this stage. I guess the platform helps Snake a little bit, but it's really nothing noticeable at all.

 

[Commander_Beef]

Like what? Grenade bounced really high? PK Thunder? Fully charged mortar?

If it has a question mark. . .then it's a joke -_-'. Just calm down and lighten up sonny.

 

[Dream Land Works]

Week 2 is finished, let week 3 discussion (Yoshi's Island) begin.

 

[Gates]

I said BAN Smashville against Wario, not strike.

Anyway, onto Yoshi's.

You know what I said about Battlefield being Dedede's worst neutral? I've changed my mind. Yoshi's Island is (depending on who you're facing). The curvature of the stage can make the ledge game difficult and sometimes even screw with chaingrabbing. The cloud can also make the ledge game difficult against characters who you can gimp for easy kills since it's random appearance can randomly give a character with an otherwise crappy recovery like Falco or Diddy or Ike or someone a second chance to make the stage.

That said, against characters you can infinite or characters you can't chaingrab or gimp, this is a pretty good stage, about as good as FD. The stage isn't perfectly flat, but it's fine for techchasing and waddle dee camping. The tilting platform is also nice since it's a good setup for utilts and aerials. The ghost can be annoying, but if it's a character with a good recovery you probably weren't going to gimp them anyway.

I definitely wouldn't choose this as a counterpick, but I can't think of who I'd ban it against either. Maybe I'd ban it against Lucario because of his wall cling ability, but I'm pretty sure there's something better to ban in that matchup. I'd say strike it against everyone with a bad recovery who you plan to gimp and everyone who can be cg'd but not infinited.

Oh yeah, hitting shy guys helps with stale moves lol.

3/5

 

[Mythic02]

I have to say 2 or 3/5. It's not that spectacular, i barely use it with dedede. I have to say the only reason I give it that is because i'm very familiar with the stage because all my previous choices were good with it. The platform leads to easy U tilts but that's pretty much it. The platform ghost hurts you a lot more than it helps you, you have a good enough recovery and it begs to save everyone who got WoP. I have to say though, i like the tilted edge because you can get a f-smash when people recover since it gives you a better range.

For banning definitely against G&W. The tilted edge plus down tilt= ultimate gimping. When he gets knocked off the stage the huge area around the stage leads to way too much bucket canceling. After the cancel he then uses his Up B to safely float to the stage or to the platform ghost. Peach i'd maybe strike it against but she isn't a big problem. Pretty much most people with good horizontal recoveries are going to be annoying to face.

It is definitely 2/5 maybe 3/5 if you are used to it. King dedede's worst neutral.

edit: if a shy guy comes close use an Up aerial. You'll barely use that move and it refreshes Bair and fair for a possible kill.

 

[Gates]

For banning definitely against G&W. The tilted edge plus down tilt= ultimate gimping. When he gets knocked off the stage the huge area around the stage leads to way too much bucket canceling. After the cancel he then uses his Up B to safely float to the stage or to the platform ghost. Peach i'd maybe strike it against but she isn't a big problem. Pretty much most people with good horizontal recoveries are going to be annoying to face.

edit: if a shy guy comes close use an Up aerial. You'll barely use that move and it refreshes Bair and fair for a possible kill.

Actually, you should definitely spend your ban on Rainbow Cruise against Game & Watch since they will take you there nearly every time if you don't. If the tourney bans it, then your next ban should be Battlefield since it's G&W's best neutral.

Also, I'd go with nair instead of uair. I use uair quite a lot when my opponent it pretty high above me (or when I'm planking lol).

 

[Mythic02]

Actually, you should definitely spend your ban on Rainbow Cruise against Game & Watch since they will take you there nearly every time if you don't. If the tourney bans it, then your next ban should be Battlefield since it's G&W's best neutral.

Also, I'd go with nair instead of uair. I use uair quite a lot when my opponent it pretty high above me (or when I'm planking lol).

Really? I use the N-air whenever i want to beat someone to the hit. I actually use N air instead of Uair. I geuss just go with wahtever you aren't using. I guess i must have sucked with game and watch. It's not really news but i always prefered G&W on yoshi's island. Oh well. I guess you can pretty much disregard whatever i just said because gates seems to have defeated me.

Except for the 2/5 part.

 

[BlackKnight23]

Ima have to agree with gates on that one. After almost getting three stocked on Rainbow C. by G&W (little experince on RC)

On level wise, Ima have to Give Yoshi"s Island a 3/5 cause of that **** ghost. Otherwise i have had alot of good outcomes. The U tilt does wonders with high damges and the slanted ledge extends the Fsmash range for a easy low damage kill. I personally like the level but That ghost has sparred to many lives for my taste.

 

[sMexy-Blu]

Battlefield and Yoshi's Island are ghey as hell.

I hate Yoshi Island edges sooooooo much.... they always screw recovery options and help enemies.

The only thing that I like about this stage its that each time you get spiked you can SDI to the stage and tech and you won't die so its practically impossible to get a Spike or get Spiked in this stage against a good opponent, you need timing to get the tech but it isn't that hard. (atleast for me)

I say 1/5, DeDeDe's worst neutral son.

I'd ban it against Sonic and strike it against Link.

 

[Jupz]

I like this stage its my fave, but it isnt good for DDD (I just love the actual stage )

Its 3.5/5 for me but overall for DDD probably 2 or 3/5. Chaingrabs arent too good hear and the ghost platforms dont helo. Wall is nice for UP B stuff with DDD if someone like snake is about to recover straight upwards you can UPB spike them :D. Also stage spikes are easy :D

 

[Tero.]

Battlefield and Yoshi's Island are ghey as hell.

I hate Yoshi Island edges sooooooo much.... they always screw recovery options and help enemies.

The only thing that I like about this stage its that each time you get spiked you can SDI to the stage and tech and you won't die so its practically impossible to get a Spike or get Spiked in this stage against a good opponent, you need timing to get the tech but it isn't that hard. (atleast for me)

I say 1/5, DeDeDe's worst neutral son.

I'd ban it against Sonic and strike it against Link.

uhm well yeah it's the worst neutral but I wouldn't agree on 1/5, 2/5 would be better because it's not that bad.

 

[Gates]

Yeah, this stage is a 2/5 at worst. 1/5 is only for stages like Norfair or Pirate Ship or something.

 

[Mythic02]

Umm, smexy, this isn't a good sonic stage. It's small and the big edge's make it even harder to get the kill. Sonic definitely has better choices. Sonic's often like smashville for a neutral. They definitely would not choose this one though.

Banning it against sonic is pretty much useless.

 

[sMexy-Blu]

I said it was my opinion.

I usually play sonics here and I get gay'd.
sidebsidebsidebsidebsideb

Yeah, this stage is a 2/5 at worst. 1/5 is only for stages like Norfair or Pirate Ship or something.

You forgot Jungle Japes.

Stages like that make DeDeDe cry.