Expanding The Kingdom: Weekly Dedede Stage Discussion (Week 12 - Pokémon Stadium 2)

[Dream Land Works]

Well we seem to have an agreement that Yoshi's Island isn't a good stage for Dedede though were those who like the stage, as I expected. Now let the Lylat Cruise discussion begin.

 

[sMexy-Blu]

I love this stage.

I counterpick this stage constantly against Falco's, its just me or something but its extremely easy to gimp people here also the ledges ruin his recovery Big time. He doesn't have much Lazer game due to the platforms and also the platforms can help you scape his CG sometimes..

Some characters can get trapped below the stage easily just like Falco, Fox and Wolf.

DeDeDe has the higuest vertical survival rate in the game so he won't be dying off the top most likely, this stage has large horizontal boundaries meaning DeDeDe will be living long if the player has good DI.

This stage has the 2nd lowest ceiling out of the neutral stages so DeDeDe will have an easier time scoring Utilt kills. (the platform helps too)

Uair, Bair and Fair all go through the stage.

The stage is relatively large so DeDeDe can CG here.

Also the ledges can be really gay sometimes due to the tilting of the stage making recovery harder.

3/5

 

[Gates]

I thought we were going to finish up all the true neutrals first, but I guess Lylat is one of the most commonly chosen "5th neutrals".

I don't have too much to say about this. It's basically Battlefield+gay ledges+tilting. This stage is bad, to say the least.

2/5 at best.

 

[Mythic02]

Actually, I find this stage to be useful. The tilted ledges often work in our favor. Dedede has a good enough recovery that usually gives him enough height to overcome the tilting ledges. It leads to easy gimping and easy stage spikes which helps dedede a lot. When it's tilted it is a lot harder to chain grab though. I don't find the platforms to help characters as much as battlefield's.

For counterpicking, easily against the starfox trio. Especially Falco because it's harder for him to chain grab. Since their recoveries are already terrible and the tilt also screws up lazer spam.

I don't think ice climber's like this stage either because they can't camp and i think even they have a hard time chaingrabbing on it. YOu have better counterpicks (rainbow cruise) against them but keep this in mind.

I say 3/5 and it is debatabley better than battle field. It's better if you rely on gimping or its worse if you rely on chaingrabs.

edit: Gates is right, we skipped Final destination.

 

[CRASHiC]

bair someone under the stage.
That's all I've got to say really.
I don't really like this stage very much.
But I like Yoshi's Island so guess I'm crazy.

 

[sMexy-Blu]

Yeah... I though FD was next, This stage is the opposite of battlefield.

In BF the platforms and edges gave our opponents advantages but in Lylat Cruise they give us the advantage.

Strike against Snake he does better here than in BF.

I can't think of none one I'd ban this against...

 

[Commander_Beef]

This stage affects the matchup with Zero Suit Samus and makes it 6:4 Zero Suit Samus in my opinion. Do not bring her here for a neutral stage. I am sure this stage affects others of King Dedede's matchups besides her though, I am not sure.

 

[CRASHiC]

No Jiggly Puff Here.

 

[Mythic02]

Wow, I really expected a lot more here... I thought that this stage had a lot happening for a neutral. I'll add one more thing though. People with tether grabs are actually less gimpable here. So i think no olimar or Zss here. maybe...

Any other opinion's on this stage?

 

[sMexy-Blu]

Ban it against ZSS seriously dude.

Theres nothing much going on this stage.

You can get spiked through the stage by people like Marth or Ike so watch out when attacking them under the stage.

I propose FD for next discussion. D:

 

[Commander_Beef]

Okay are we on Lylat Cruise? Nobody declared it but I'll begin. This stage is horrible for King Dedede against the two best characters in the game, both Snake and Meta Knight.
Snake: "C4" and grenades are camoflouged in the air.
Meta Knight: Easiest place for him to gimp a slow*** like King Dedede.

Also, he might have a hard time chaingrabbing (on Lylat) those who are close to not getting chaingrabbed on a flat stage, like Marth or Pit.

The only Pro I can think of for King Dedede on this stage is that he is a great edgeguarder on here. XD

 

[Mythic02]

Ok so counter pick on: :Ice climbers:

Ban against: :Zero Suit Samus: :Snake: :Metaknight:
Strike against: :Jigglypuff: :Olimar:

Killing is easy on the stage. It has the second lowest ceiling of the neutrals for our U-tilts. Our good recovery keeps us from being gimped. Our awesome gimping skills help us totally destroy others. B-airs and F-airs lead to easy stage spikes. The platforms don't help others as much as in Battlefield. The tilting really hurts campers.

Pros:
Easy Kills
Tilting stage stops campers
Easy Gimping

Cons:
Very hard to chain grab
We can't camp (even though we don't really rely on it)
We occasionally have troubles recovering (It's not that big a problem though.)

I say 3/5 overall.

 

[Dream Land Works]

Alright guys thanks for the input and sorry for the delay, I lost my internet for a few days. We will now move onto Final Destination, but the Lylat Cruise summary won't be up until tomorrow.

Let Final Destination discussion begin.

 

[Gates]

FD is a good stage. People can't gay you by abusing platforms on it. One of Dedede's best neutrals.

That said, ban it against Falco or Diddy (unless Jungle Japes is legal, ban that instead Falco instead).

EDIT: 3.5/5

 

[Mythic02]

Final destination is usually the most common stage you'll see. It is considered one of the most fair stages.
It's wide open and perfect for chain grabbing. The weird lip means stage spike fun . We don't have to worry about the lip but a lot of others do. It can be a pain for most people if they are under the stage so go for a regispike.

The big thing about final destination is that you'll play a big ground based game. You usually only see shorthops at most since there is only one platform. This means lots of spacing.

Ban against:
Falco-No where to dodge lazers, and he can chaingrab us.
Diddy kong- With all the ground based combat his banana's are annoying.
Ice climbers- Wide open spaces is their chain grabbing dream. Since their projectile stays on land they will love to desynch.

Counterpicking:
Game and Watch-His worst stage. He depends on aerials and the only way to abuse those here is shorthopping. His aerials have a lot of landing lag , so be ready to punish.
Wario- Once again someone who depends on aerials.
Metakinght- Consider it. We have green greens which is usually better, but this is a good place in case he bans green greens.

If you see your opponent in the air all the time, this is a good place to take them.

I say 3 or 3.5/5. It's your second best of the normal neutrals so it's a good place to know.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

Ahh Final D, its a good stage for D3.


*Good for Chain Grab
*Lip is highly abuse-able
*Stronger Focus on our ground game rather than our aerials
*Good stage against, faster, more versatile Aerial based characters

What makes a stages like Battlefield annoying, to me, is that aerial based characters can just literally weave in and out unharmed thanks to platforms. But at Final D, they got no where to hide. Its as flat as the salt flats of Daytona 500 speed way. There's nothing to hide or take cover under. Aerial based characters are then forced to SH or full hop their aerials or spam projectiles. Our tilts [Dtilt,Ftilt] got good range to work with -- Ftilt can also cancel some projectiles as well keep that in mind for spammers. We got a good shield and a Chain Grab so use it where ever you can. Get in some retreating, or SH Bair's [WOP] if possible. If not, keep it fresh, launch them, then edgeguard with it or Fair.

The lip at Final D. I cannot say enough good things about this when it comes to playing D3. It rocks against characters with a bad recovery in general. But when you get them to 130% and they lose their invincibility frames on the ledge? Drop down and land a nice Bair right onto their back. Unless they're a teching master, they will not be coming back from a stage meteor. Just dont Up+b into the lip, its an automatic -1 stock.

Ban against;

Ice Climbers
Falco
Diddy
Pikachu

IC, Pikachu, Falco can CG the crap out of us and out camp us. Dont bother fighting them here. Diddy loves a stage with no platforms and banana lock is just as bad as getting a chain grab.

Counterpick against;

MetaKnight
Wario
Marth
Mr. Game & Watch

Generally Meta Knight's will ban Final D, but if you can counter pick Green Greens by all means go there. I love that stage to DEATH.

 

[CRASHiC]

Strike against Zero Suit Samus. This place makes if far to easy for her to glide toss and abuse her combos.

 

[Jupz]

Basically except for G&W and MK most of DDD's bad matchups are made worse here. But then again he has more room to chaingrab and people can't air camp as well (wario) so you'll find it easier to get the grab. I think pretty much everythings already been said

 

[Dream Land Works]

I am going to give the Final Destination discussion another day (today) since it started kind of late.

Edit: Let the discussion for Pokémon Stadium (aka Pokémon Stadium 1 or Pokémon Stadium Melee) begin.

 

[Mythic02]

Pokemon Stadium 1, I don't play too much here, but i think Pikachu loves this stage because of the terrain allows it to camp well. Kirby is really good hear. ZSS and Charizard are also good here. Oh, and this is one of Captain Falcon's best stages. I think pit is the only one with a real problem.

So ban on Pika, Kirby
Strike: on ZSS, Captain Falcon, and if PT plays charizard mostly.
Counterpick: Pit.

Please correct me if I'm wrong though.

 

[Gates]

I LOVE PS1.

But I don't have time to talk about it now.

Moar later.

 

[CRASHiC]

Soooo many walls.
Soooo many deadly chain grabs.

This place is Dededee's Jerusalem, and he seeks to expel and exodus all others out. Best of all the possible neutrals.

Go gay here like you are walking down Greenwhich village 1 o clock at night.

Suck **** all the way.

 

[7ACE7]

PS1 is a solid stage for the DDD player.
Two of the transformations give the possibility of an infinite.
The awkward ledges don't hinder DDD.
The Long stage allows for a long chaingrab.
The stage transformations can negate camping and projectile spamming that bothers DDD.
DDD may have more trouble with some of the small, quick and mobile characters such as pikachu, Gdub, Kirby etc. but only when the stage transformations hurt his spacing because DDD is not very efficient at extremely close combat.
I don't think you need to ban it against any characters.
It is a good counterpick against some characters that give DDD trouble: Diddy Kong. With the exception of a player such as Ninjalink, most Diddy players will have trouble utilizing their bananas on the awkward terrain of some of the stage transformations.

 

[Gates]

This stage is fantastic against characters you can chaingrab. 2 of its transformations (rock and fire) have walls and the water transformation has a pseudo-wall in the form of the windmill. On top of that, the weird ledges make it easier to gimp. If you don't pick this stage against a character you can chaingrab, you made the wrong choice (unless you're fighting Wario, then you should pick FD, but if they banned that you have no excuse).

I don't really know who you'd ban this stage against. I'd say in general don't counterpick it against characters you can't chaingrab since they tend to be lighter and PS1 has an average height ceiling.

Counterpick against: Snake, Marth, Diddy Kong, ROB, Lucario, Donkey Kong, Toon Link, Pit, Peach, Wolf, Luigi, Bowser, Ike, Mario, Lucas, Ness, Samus, Sonic, Pokemon Trainer (unless they use Squirtle almost exclusively), Yoshi, Link, Ganondorf, and Captain Falcon.

3/5 against people you can't CG
7/5 against people you can CG
5/5 average
One of Dedede's best stages.

 

[Jupz]

I love the edges on this stage. They seem to fool a lot of characters recovery, especially the spacies. This stage is too beast with DDD

Before we give it 5/5 I think we should check the following points :
Is there any transformations that are bad for DDD?
Which characters that he can't chaingrab can cause him trouble here? I was thinking pikachu or falco?
Also, remember that roughly half the time the stage will be in its neutral position.

 

[Gates]

Is there any transformations that are bad for DDD?

Not really, no.

Which characters that he can't chaingrab can cause him trouble here? I was thinking pikachu or falco?

Probably just Pikachu and Falco.

Also, remember that roughly half the time the stage will be in its neutral position.

The layout of the neutral position is still advantageous to Dedede.

 

[Coney]

Watch the hell out for ZSS here. During the water transformation, her downb (the flip kick) goes through the windmill. Like, completely. There's no loss of momentum, or any landing animation, or anything. It's like it's not even there. Think of her on Rainbow Cruise, if you're familiar with that. Anyway, if you don't know it, it will surprise you and it will kill you.

In response to which characters you can't CG that will give you trouble, Pika and Falco are good but ZSS has a few tricks. She isn't affected by the strange lip of the stage, her sideb (the whip) can poke you through a lot of obstacles like the tree in the fire transformation or the wall in the rock transformation...just watch out.

 

[7ACE7]

I love how this thread have turned out so far. I can already tell its going to be one of the best character stage discussion threads on the boards.

 

[§leepy God]

I love how this thread have turned out so far. I can already tell its going to be one of the best character stage discussion threads on the boards.

♫ Well, so far your competition is the Kirby boards that's already on they're 23rd stage with a powerful Kirby main heading the topic. Ike had the best, until the topic creater gave up on the thread, lol. Well, continue. ^_^; ☼

 

[7ACE7]

You are definitely right. the kirby boards do have a solid stage discussion thread. Its good to see that the players of the Dreamland characters know their stuff.

 

[Gates]

Its good to see that the players of the Dreamland characters know their stuff.

idk, I've seen some really ****ty metaknights...

 

[7ACE7]

idk, I've seen some really ****ty metaknights...

Oh definitely. I think a lot of scrubs play as metaknight because they heard he was good.

 

[Dream Land Works]

Guys chill with the spam. Does anyone have more input for the stage or should we move on to the next one?

 

[Jupz]

Probably move onto the next one. What should we do next?

 

[Gates]

Let's do Halberd.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

Lets go for Halberd. It's also a good stage for D3.

It'll give me something to think over while I'm writing some summaries for Norfair and Picto-chat.

 

[Dream Land Works]

We can do Halberd for week 8. Earlier in the thread sMexy-Blu requested Delfino Plaza so let's get that one out of the way first.

 

[Gates]

Delfino is fine too. I haven't played on it a lot so I'll just give a brief description with no rating or specific matchup advice.

This stage has walls but unlike Pokemon Stadium they are a lot easier for the opponent to avoid (except maybe the Shine Gate). The blast zones on the side of the stage are also kind of small. Be careful against characters you can't gimp on this stage due to the water.

OMG moving on to another discussion before updating wtf who does that!?!

 

[Dream Land Works]

*Looks at character discussion thread* You?

 

[Gates]

*Looks at character discussion thread* You?