Evo 2013 Ruleset

[EthereaL]

Bones0, I have serious doubts as to your mental faculties. You...one day, I want you to re-read your posts.

Well put, Krisp.

I'm gone.

 

[Bones0]

Bones0, I have serious doubts as to your mental faculties. You...one day, I want you to re-read your posts.

Well put, Krisp.

I'm gone.

You should get premium so you can change your username to "I am Butthurt 24/7".

 

[commonyoshi]

For a 3 day tournament with double elimination pools, I think melee could do 3/5 sets...

 

[phish-it]

The tournament might be 3 days but each game (Melee atleast) spans over 2.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Forgot to ban Master Hand and Metaknight.

 

[Frisbie]

What is the situation with best of 5 matches? For a big tournament like this, I think that semis and finals rounds should be best of 5 at the very least, if not quarters too.

 

[KrIsP!]

I think lf wf and gf are bo5

 

[Revven]

LFs, WFs, and GFs are typically Bo5 for all games, Bo3 for the matches prior to that.

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

It's only winners/losers/grand finals which are bo5, correct.

There was no official rule for bo5, so I made it identical except no bans.

 

[ZaXXoR]

Correct me if I'm wrong but shouldn't it be "You cannot choose the last stage you won on" not you can't play a stage you won... And just for clarification it should go: Players Ban stages, Players choose characters (double blind if requested), Winner bans stage, loser chooses stage, loser decides if going to switch chars, if so, winner can switch also, or am i remembering it wrong

 

[Atlus8]

Only GF are best of 5! Everything else is best of 3!

 

[ycz12]

Wait... so which one is it?

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

Winners, losers, and grand finals are 3/5, semis are 2/3.

You can't CP -any- stage you won on. The official ruleset also doesn't mention character counterpicks but the FGC standard is that only the loser can change character.

Need to have an official rule on this but at NCR there were no bans in 3/5 sets.

 

[AXE 09]

The official ruleset also doesn't mention character counterpicks but the FGC standard is that only the loser can change character.

Holy crap that sounds intense.

 

[Vudujin]

Having trouble finding a schedule for this.

On what day does melee start?

 

[KrIsP!]

I don't think there will be a schedule until early July. Just going off of last year's schedule.

 

[ZaXXoR]

I still think it should be "You cannot choose the last stage you won on" because in a situation where it's BO5: P1 Wins P2 Wins / P1 Wins P2 Wins P2Wins P1 is at a disadvantage. Also there are only 6 maps including counterpick

 

[Juggleguy]

I actually really like the rule stating that only the loser of the previous match can switch characters. Naturally pushes for longer sets and more entertainment value for spectators.

 

[Bones0]

I actually really like the rule stating that only the loser of the previous match can switch characters. Naturally pushes for longer sets and more entertainment value for spectators.

**** spectators.

 

[Juggleguy]

Not sure if you're serious, but... spectators are a huge part of the sustainment of the Melee community and they must always be considered when running a tourney. A ruleset change that enhances spectator value while remaining reasonable in the spirit of competition should be welcomed.

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

I still think it should be "You cannot choose the last stage you won on" because in a situation where it's BO5: P1 Wins P2 Wins / P1 Wins P2 Wins P2Wins P1 is at a disadvantage. Also there are only 6 maps including counterpick

I don't understand what you mean in your example.

 

[Bones0]

Not sure if you're serious, but... spectators are a huge part of the sustainment of the Melee community and they must always be considered when running a tourney. A ruleset change that enhances spectator value while remaining reasonable in the spirit of competition should be welcomed.

I don't think disallowing a player from changing characters between games is reasonable.

 

[Juggleguy]

Well, there's clearly a precedent for that kind of rule clause from the FGC. I love that it punishes players who rely too heavily on character counterpicks while also increasing spectating value at the same time.

 

[AXE 09]

Why would you want to punish players who character counterpick?

 

[Strong Badam]

Not sure if you're serious, but... spectators are a huge part of the sustainment of the Melee community and they must always be considered when running a tourney. A ruleset change that enhances spectator value while remaining reasonable in the spirit of competition should be welcomed.

I don't agree with this, mostly because our game is so entertaining already that ruleset concessions aren't necessary to satiate spectators.

 

[lordvaati]

I'm actually curious about this as well(even tested it out a bit at my last tourney.)

Besides, it wasn't like the ruleset was going to be 100% like ours now, some liberties had to be taken to spice things up from the norm(don't make me drop the GimpyFish's vid on y'all.)

 

[Bones0]

Well, there's clearly a precedent for that kind of rule clause from the FGC. I love that it punishes players who rely too heavily on character counterpicks while also increasing spectating value at the same time.

Our game isn't mainstream in the FGC though. Adhering strictly to the rules of a traditional fighter makes about as much sense as adhering to the rules of a FPS. If traditional fighters had multiple stages that had a pretty big impact on matchups, I bet they would allow character switches from the winner. In fact, I still don't see why they don't allow character switches from the winner. As long as the winner is the one deciding what character he is playing next, I don't see any real reason to disallow him switching if his opponent is allowed to switch. Perhaps this goes back to a default setting in some popular fighter, but either way, it doesn't make sense for Melee to adopt it.

I'm also not sure I even agree that it increases the entertainment of the viewers. I think most people find it very interesting to see players use secondaries, but counterpicking characters is going to be much riskier because you have to be sure that you can beat all of their characters on all of the stages in the following game.

Besides, it wasn't like the ruleset was going to be 100% like ours now, some liberties had to be taken to spice things up from the norm

Why? What's wrong with using the normal ruleset for Evo? If anything, this is the worst time to take liberties with our ruleset, especially with something as dramatic as preventing players from changing characters. Do you realize how unfair that would be to someone like M2K who has been using his characters strategically to suddenly remove his ability to change characters for different stages? Obviously this sort of inconvenience cannot be used to justify a rule because every ruleset change can be argued to take away advantages from some characters/players, but it can certainly justify not changing the rule right before a huge national. It should be timed so that players have as much time as possible to adapt their strategy to the new ruleset.

 

[KrIsP!]

Apparently mango knew about the rule at NCR and was going to switch to fox against ppu but stopped himself and lost as falco. I don't think it's a huge deal, everyone has had plenty of time to learn the rules... there's only like 8 of them so no johns if they didn't know. Also guessing the rule will be broken and no one will correct it.

It could be interesting, it means the loser won't have to think about what character their opponent will switch to when they pick a stage. Basically, i don't think we should be adopting it but I don't think it will all that bad at Evo either.

 

[ZaXXoR]

I don't understand what you mean in your example.

sorry i might have used a bad example;

P1 WINS
P2 CHOOSES STAGE
P2 WINS
P1 CHOOSES STAGE
P1 WINS
P2 CHOOSES STAGE
P2 WINS
P1 chooses out of 3 maps (cannot choose a stage they won on or that p2 bans)

in my opinion this is a big disadvantage

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

There are no bans in bo5 (at least that's what we used at NCR)
But I also don't see what the problem in your example is. It's a disadvantage relative to being able to being able to CP stage 1 sure, but so what? It's not inherently a disadvantage relative to P2, which would be a problem.

Also @ others, the EVO ruleset wasn't designed "spice things up," it was for simplicity.

 

[lordvaati]

^yeah, that's kind of what I meant,I just didn't have the right word then :/

I mean even from day 1 when they posted the ruleset on the site, they have been trying to keep the rules as bare bones as possible, due to how naturally complex our rulesets are. and pretty much since the rules have been posted, most people have been requesting that EVERY TINY DETAIL is added to the rules, in an attempt to negate that simplicity. and that doesn't really fly with me, the current ruleset is fine. period.

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

Yeah, I think it's fine but clarification is needed regarding character CPs and bans (or lack thereof) in 3/5 sets.

Also, another reason that you shouldn't be able to CP any stage you won on is the following situation:
P1 wins
P2 picks their CP and wins
P1 picks another CP but P2 wins
P1 wins game 4
It is now P2's turn to CP and only restricting the last stage he won on allows him to pick again his first CP, which is possibly his most advantageous stage. I don't think someone should be able to win a 3/5 set having 2 of their wins come on their best stage. Granted they had to win once on P1's CP, but still.

 

[ZaXXoR]

Oh i didn't realize they take out map bans

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Ah, will EVO have a rather dynamic stage-list or a rather stagnated one.
I look forward too it.

 

[Bones0]

Ah, will EVO have a rather dynamic stage-list or a rather stagnated one.
I look forward too it.

It's the standard 6 stages.

 

[Landry]

It's the standard 6 stages.

and thank god for that

 

[N1c2k3]

No stage bans is really good, IMO.

 

[michael_li]

whens the official ruleset coming out?

 

[clowsui]

it's out already

 

[KrIsP!]

It is out http://evo.shoryuken.com/evo-player-guide/evo-additional-rules/ in fact it's been used already at a few tournaments. Aside from this there a general rules for all games that cover anything not game specific.

ninja'd