Evo 2013 Ruleset

[AXE 09]

So, what about that 1.0?

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

Ruleset looks great.

 

[KrIsP!]

Rules look beautiful. Thanks wizard

 

[Revven]

Looks good to me.

 

[Lovage]

ruleset looks great thanx mr. wizard

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

Thank you Mr. Wizard, you are awesome

 

[GKInfinity]

What about character counterpicks? I don't see it mentioned. Other than that it looks perfect

 

[Jolteon]

Ruleset looks good, Mr. Wizard. Thanks.

Axe brings up a good point about 1.0, though. I'm not sure if you're aware, but there are actually three different versions of the NA version (1.0, 1.1 and 1.2).

 

[HollaAtchaBoy]

"You may not choose a stage you have already won on unless mutually agreed to."

In Winners/Losers/Grand Finals, this would mean that if the game goes to game 5, all but one stage will HAVE to be played on as an eventuality, correct?

And yes, character counterpick needs to be sorted out.

EDIT: Nevermind, I'm an idiot.

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

If there's ever going to be a tournament standard, it will be 1.2. Which is too bad, but it's too hard to get 1.0 anymore especially for large tournaments. To summarize the meaningful differences:
- Bowser's Flame Cancel is not in 1.2.
- You can smash DI 1% hits in 1.2 (this ends up being a nerf to Zelda and Pichu).
- Link/YL hookshot jump/super jump is not in 1.2.
People that play those characters would rather play on 1.0.

There's a more detailed discussion to be had, but for the purposes of EVO I'd suggest people just play on whatever they're assigned to. I don't think it's right to give preferential treatment to people who benefit from 1.0, or to their opponents.

 

[Bones0]

You don't need every setup to have 1.0 to make it the standard. I just use this rule:

Players may request to play on a 1.0 or 1.1 version of the game in place of 1.2 (for the beneficial changes most low tiers receive). Lowest requested version takes priority, but it is the responsibility of the player to provide the appropriate disc.

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

I don't know if I agree with players being able to force 1.0 if the other player doesn't want to.

In any case for EVO I don't think this needs to be in the ruleset given that we don't even have an unofficial let alone an official rule on this.

 

[Strong Badam]

Wait, aren't finals 3/5?

 

[KrazyKnux]

I don't know if I agree with players being able to force 1.0 if the other player doesn't want to.

In any case for EVO I don't think this needs to be in the ruleset given that we don't even have an unofficial let alone an official rule on this.

Yeah, it does seem a bit odd to allow lower versions to take precedence. I guess the reasoning would be that it benefits low tiers, so I suppose it's a way to even the playing field a bit. Either way, there definitely doesn't need to be a rule on it, and I'm sure if anyone wants to play on 1.0 they can just do a gentleman's agreement. I can't imagine anyone refusing unless they're just a jerk lol.

And unfortunately, I'm pretty sure all sets are 2/3, including finals.

 

[Bones0]

Axe has already had people not want to play him on 1.0 (and for good reason lol). The fact that it is a lower version is kind of weird though. I think I am actually going to take that out since most players practice on 1.2 and it's simply newer. I would be pretty annoyed if I practiced a matchup in the newest, most common version, and then someone was able to force a less common version that would change some parts of the matchup like SDIing out of moves.

 

[KrazyKnux]

Oh haha, I didn't realize people cared that much. I assume he just wants to troll with Young Link, right? I would think that people would have a better chance against Axe's Young Link on 1.0 than his Pikachu on 1.2.

But yeah it makes sense that 1.2 is the go-to version since it's newer and more common. Though it is a shame to get rid of things like flame canceling lol.

 

[Bones0]

I think you can SDI out of Pikachu's fsmash and dsmash in 1.1 and 1.2.

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

Not fsmash but dsmash yes. Although it's not as easy as SDI-ing out of Zelda's or Pichu's fsmash.
I played Axe's YL in 1.0 in tournament and it was hard. I personally wouldn't refuse but I don't know that it's fair to force people who don't have 1.0 to play against him (or anyone really, not to single Axe out) in 1.0 since YL has some pretty neat stuff that isn't immediately obvious how to deal with.

 

[Bones0]

I thought 1.0 only allowed him to boomerang-cancel hookshot (awesome, but situational at best) and super jump with hookshot? The super jump could probably be used more often, but I have doubts about the effectiveness of doing it just to airstrike an opponent with a couple of bombs. lol

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

Boomerang cancel hookshot effectively counts as another jump during recovery. And I think there might be some SDI stuff with the bombs too, not sure about that though.

 

[Juushichi]

If I remember correctly from the last EVO, weren't all finals 3/5?

 

[Tero.]

The rules have been updated. Hopefully we have either solved it, or are super close.

http://evo.shoryuken.com/evo-player-guide/evo-additional-rules/

Super Smash Brothers Melee

• Game version: US Nintendo Gamecube
• Game Settings: 4 Stock, 8 Minute Time Limit, No Items, Pause Disabled, 2/3 Games
• Starter stages: Yoshi’s Story, Fountain of Dreams, Final Destination, Battlefield, Dream Land.
• Counter-pick Stages: Pokémon Stadium.
• Wobbling is legal. Freezing and infinite stalling are not legal.
• First stage is decided by banning from the Starter Stages in 1-2-2-1 order.
• Following stages decided by winner banning one stage from all stages and then loser choosing.
• You may not choose a stage you have already won on unless mutually agreed to.

The only thing I would add.

 

[Revven]

If I remember correctly from the last EVO, weren't all finals 3/5?

Yes, they were. It's a given for every game iirc. There doesn't need to be a specific rule about it.

 

[N1c2k3]

I don't think it's wrong to be forced to do anything that benefits low tiers. I'll def be brining my 1.0 and asking my matches to play on it. If they say no, then w/e. Pichu needs all the help he can get...

 

[Fly_Amanita]

The very existence of different NTSC versions is a mild nuisance and I would not like allowing people to force an older and less common version of the game on their opponent for their own benefit. I agree with Hyuga that 1.2 is the obvious choice for a standard if we're going to be any more specific than "US Nintendo Gamecube". This isn't something I feel strongly about, though, since the differences between the three NTSC versions of SSBM are, for the most part, incredibly minor.

 

[lordvaati]

Super Smash Brothers Melee

• Game version: US Nintendo Gamecube
• Game Settings: 4 Stock, 8 Minute Time Limit, No Items, Pause Disabled, 2/3 Games
• Starter stages: Yoshi’s Story, Fountain of Dreams, Final Destination, Battlefield, Dream Land.
• Counter-pick Stages: Pokémon Stadium.
• Wobbling is legal. Freezing and infinite stalling are not legal.
• First stage is decided by banning from the Starter Stages in 1-2-2-1 order.
• Following stages decided by winner banning one stage from all stages and then loser choosing.
• You may not choose a stage you have already won on unless mutually agreed to.

The only thing I would add.

well that goes without saying, don't forget they are trying to keep the rules as bare bones as possible, and not focus on specific things like Peach Bomber/Rising Pound stall.

 

[HollaAtchaBoy]

well that goes without saying.

In a world of people who purposefully comb over the rules for oversights and things not mentioned for any possible advantage, do we really want to give somebody the chance at the highest level of Melee competition to sully the name of Smash yet again?

 

[lordvaati]

and how many times have said people gotten to top 8, much less won these events?

It's just like the Wobbling thing, if it doesn't heavily influence tournament results,they don't need to flaunt it in the basic bare bone rules(which is why Wobbling is thankfully legal.)Wiz isn't going to keep revising this thing every week just because of minor details/exploits, since those who exploit them never really win anything anyway. The way he has it written now is fine as is, he doesn't need to keep doing proofreads/edits every 2 weeks until EVO.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Wobbling is legal and I am happy due to this. I do not know why it was ever a controversy. If you get grabbed by the IC's, you deserve to die anyway (unless your Jigglypuff )

Ruleset looks great otherwise

2 additions
Pause is disabled unless requested (to prevent stupid midgame pauses)
Maximum 1:30 minute warmup before a set.

 

[Strong Badam]

pause should not be able to be requested to be on...

 

[N1c2k3]

Pausing should not be allowed on, no questions asked. Also, 1:30 min warmups? Imagine if some1 from every match did that... 30 sec's max.

 

[MrWizard]

Ive updated the rules to state no infinite stalling.

 

[EthereaL]

No warm-ups or "button checks". Period. It's pathetic. Warm up your hands before you plug your controller in, and you shouldn't bring faulty equipment to an event.

 

[Bones0]

No warm-ups or "button checks". Period. It's pathetic. Warm up your hands before you plug your controller in, and you shouldn't bring faulty equipment to an event.

You have to have allow handjobs to make sure your stick isn't drifting or your L/R wasn't pressed in slightly when you plugged your controller in. It also provides an opportunity to get accustomed to the television, including checking for lag, getting used to any weird color displays, getting acquainted with the flicker or lack-thereof. All of this only takes a minute per set, and virtually every competitive sport on the planet allows competitors to check their body/equipment before starting the event, including other e-sports, so why not Melee?

 

[EthereaL]

1. They check their equipment in the down-time before the game is scheduled to begin.

2. Make sure you aren't pressing them when it's plugged in.

That's really all there is to say about it. When you sit down to play, play.

 

[Bones0]

1. They check their equipment in the down-time before the game is scheduled to begin.

2. Make sure you aren't pressing them when it's plugged in.

That's really all there is to say about it. When you sit down to play, play.

How can you check a TV before you sit down and plug your controller in?

Why do you even care? You are so butthurt over button checks that it makes me think you sat watching M2K "warm up" on stream for 20 minutes straight once, and ever since you just blame all warmups...

 

[EthereaL]

Why on Earth would you need to "check a TV"?

Why do I care? Because, I think that they detract from tournament experience from a point of viewership, and I do not believe that they are necessary.

 

[ShrieK1295]

Why do I care? Because, I think that they detract from tournament experience from a point of viewership, and I do not believe that they are necessary.

I think playing floaties and camping have the same effect and are unnecessary, but we aren't getting rid of them anytime soon.

 

[Bones0]

Why on Earth would you need to "check a TV"?

Why do I care? Because, I think that they detract from tournament experience from a point of viewership, and I do not believe that they are necessary.

You obviously didn't read my post... If you really think a 30-60 second warmup ruins the viewing experience, then WOW. I'd think the several minutes of downtime that most streams have in between matches would be a much higher priority.

Also, what ShrieK said is a great point. The competitors should be the first concern, not the spectators.

 

[KrIsP!]

This is a stupid conversation for this thread, wizard said he was fine with 30 second warm ups and that's a good compromise. Yes, there have been instances where people took longer than needed to warm up and doing it multiple times on streams was annoying but it isn't as bad now and I don't think we have to run in here and complain about it again when the conversation happened 7 pages ago and we found a good ruleset. It's a miniscule issue, only real annoyances were RoM 5 where I remember m2k having a 5 minute warm up on stream then having controller johns after his first match and doing another 2 minutes. That won't happen at evo, no one would let it. Only real issue that has come out of it is commentators asking if they started every time someone sits down to play.