Evo 2013 Ruleset

[Bones0]

Bookmarking this comment for if I one day win the lottery, I'll host a damn huge tournament!

And I'll be there to time you out twice in a row in round 1.

 

[crush]

we used 6 min timer and legal freez glitch at MIT tronament 1nce, and nothing out of the ordnary happened other than Irish Jim mafia freezeglitching scrubs in like 4 seconds

 

[KrIsP!]

watching this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDcwB2Y3ioo&t=1m10s I definitely think we should allow pause.

The lose a stock if you pause rule is perfectly fine and should be followed without a bunch of fighting. Cause it allows for this. #FreePauseButton

 

[Yomi-no-Kuni]

So, i didn't see any new thread to adress the Evo 2013 Ruleset.
I'll post the rules here and share my thoughts.
http://evo.shoryuken.com/evo-player-guide/evo-additional-rules/

Obviously, we couldn't have expected exactly the same ruleset we've been playing because its quite extensive...
in The Evo rules i couldn't find anything concerning stalling, character freezing... is both allowed?

No counterpicking rule is specified except for the general one which states that the winner cannot change his character.... does that apply to smash?

I appreciate that MrWizard asked us what we want, but all it did was everyone ranting about this and that they wanted changed and then Evo picking the simplest solution possible without really giving any thought to it except for wobbling being allowed because it isn't game breaking...

Are these 30 second handjobs allowed now, as mentioned before? I'll be interested how that will be done when pause is turned off and you can only change time in 1 minute steps.... Turning pause on/off during every game? Well guess what, it'll be forgotten and someone might press start. No rule for that, except both being disqualified because they didn't check the rules?

The Evo rules are playable, no doubt, and very simple, but instead of trying to fix the problems that have been brought up in this thread they just ignored them... hoped for a bit more

 

[Juggleguy]

It's not "every stage must be different"... it's just DSR.

 

[Bones0]

Honestly thought they wouldn't change anything at all. Idk why it was so hard to copy and paste the Apex ruleset and change Wobbling to legal. Any player entering who isn't familiar with competitive smash would have no idea how to go about selecting stages and counterpicking based on that ruleset, and leaving out things like no freeze glitch or stalling is just asking for trouble.

 

[Juggleguy]

Calling it now, Wobbles freeze glitches his way to top 8 LOL

 

[Revven]

I am 90% sure Wizard didn't want to c/p the entire Apex 2013 rule set because it's fuggin' huge and to have such a big rule set listed for one game on the website vs the others seems kind of ridiculous, to me at least.

I'm pretty sure though he settled on Apex's rule set, he just chose not to list *every* rule because either A) he assumes players who play Smash will already know those rules or B) didn't want to clutter the page/make the page itself stretch.

Maybe someone should just like, tell him to link to the Apex 2013 rule set on the Evo website in that case I guess. Because the last time he posted here he said he was going with Apex 2013 rule set, which includes all those rules minus wobbling being banned.

 

[Bones0]

I am 90% sure Wizard didn't want to c/p the entire Apex 2013 rule set because it's fuggin' huge and to have such a big rule set listed for one game on the website vs the others seems kind of ridiculous, to me at least.

I'm pretty sure though he settled on Apex's rule set, he just chose not to list *every* rule because either A) he assumes players who play Smash will already know those rules or B) didn't want to clutter the page/make the page itself stretch.

Maybe someone should just like, tell him to link to the Apex 2013 rule set on the Evo website in that case I guess. Because the last time he posted here he said he was going with Apex 2013 rule set, which includes all those rules minus wobbling being banned.

If you don't list every rule, then people can simply claim ignorance. You can't assume all of your competitors know that you are using Apex's ruleset, let alone that they will know what Apex's ruleset even entails without looking it up on their own. If someone didn't know anything about competitive Melee and looked at that ruleset, there are many scenarios they wouldn't know what to do. What happens if the match goes to time? The game plays out Sudden Death, so if a match goes to time and the player wins Sudden Death they will claim they have won. Looking at the rules that are posted, I'd be inclined to agree with them. Most Melee tournaments clarify that Sudden Death shouldn't be played out and doesn't count, but not this ruleset.

It's not like it's a big deal since there's plenty of time before the event to get a simple link to the MBR Recommended Ruleset up there. I just want to make sure it happens to avoid any potential drama because someone was a little lazy about posting the full ruleset.

 

[Juggleguy]

I think Revven makes a good point, though. As a new or inexperienced player, I'd much rather read the simplified ruleset that EVO posted on its site than the giant wall of text on the Apex website. TOs everywhere should start summarizing their rulesets into small sections like EVO has done on its site, then consider putting together a separate .pdf file that lists all the excruciating details to be printed out or accessed in case of tourney-day disputes.

 

[Bones0]

Sure, giving a brief ruleset and then linking to the full one is a great idea. Unfortunately, Evo didn't link to a full ruleset, and they didn't even include the most basic rules that everyone needs to understand, such as the counterpicking process.

 

[KrIsP!]

It's sad cause the only real issue is people abusing lack of definitive rules. Even when a bible of rules is given new players always ask how to counter pick.

I suppose most of the FGC understands how to counter pick characters and have their own blind pick or whatever so people don't keep changing their characters because of MUs. A lot of those rules are rarely used anyways, it was hype when HBox went Ness but some of the others are seriously needed. Even just copy pasting MBR's How To Play A Set. Yes everyone should know how to counter pick characters but stages change things.

I do however understand why he did this, we don't need to flaunt our bible of rules in the faces of people who let everything rock. TBH just 2 or 3 more points could cover everything necessary, thing is they probably don't care about stalling if someone wants to run away for 8 minutes or pull some M2K ****.

 

[MrWizard]

A lot of the counter picking stuff, and blind character pick are already in our ruleset. It just isn't smash specific.

You guys already have too many scenario specific rules for situations that almost never come up, and that is pretty tedious.

Im open to adding one or two more lines on specifics, but I don't want to scare away non smash people from entering because the rules are out of control.

 

[King Funk]

I think you should just keep it simplified on the EVO site, and then put up a link to the rest of the ruleset right below it.

 

[KrIsP!]

I like the condensed rules shown, cause I was scared of everything being too tedious for the hopeful non-smash entries. We already have enough issues with players not knowing the specific rules or people studying the rules to find some sort of loop hole to use.

FGC knows how to play a set, our players know that master hand isn't legal in tournament play. All that is really begging to be added is stage bans in a bo3. The winner of a match gets to ban one of the 6 stages and the loser picks the next stage. Other than that, something like freeze glitching is only necessary cause as bones said, people will feign ignorance even though it's been illegal for how long.

 

[Yomi-no-Kuni]

I hope my post on this page didn't sound to negative, i like that you want to keep it short, but i think it's just missing a couple of things.

maybe you could add:
"No Freeze Glitches/Infinite Stalls are allowed."

For the rare time-out occasion, there should propably be some kind of rule, as there will most definitely be one or two timeouts throughout the tournament. "Sudden Deaths are not played. Outcome is determined by Stock count, percentage, ultimately a 1 stock 3 minute rematch."

There also needs to be something about counterpicking, because this(playing the match): http://evo.shoryuken.com/evo-player-guide/evo-tournament-rules/ , if still accurate, is completely untrue for smash. Maybe a one-liner: "Counterpicking: Loser picks a stage, Winner picks his character, then loser picks his character."


Thanks again to MrWizard for being so active on here and caring about opinions! Btw, as i'm not from the USA, i will not be attending Evo, but i'll sure as hell be watching and i'd love for this to be a nice event for smashers as well as everybody else!

 

[KrIsP!]

The thig about going to time is that is simply the way regular fighting games choose winners in time out, out ham simply doesn't decide that way but I'm sure under their general rules they don't allow another game to be played under time out and higher percent to us is the same as lower health to them.

 

[Bones0]

Just have time outs be decided by stock count, percentage, then port priority. Obviously port priority is a dumb way to settle that, but I don't think I've ever heard of a timeout occurring with both players at the same %. That's just ridiculously unlikely. Also, the overall counterpicking rules specify that a player may not change characters after a win, which I think is a problem because some players have secondaries specifically for certain stages, or they may just not like how game 1 went (even though they won) and want to change characters.

I have a question about the "Match Play" section, under "Standard Selection."

• Both players choose their characters whenever they want. This is a free for all. Players pick who they want and go.
• Once either player chooses a character, neither is allowed to request that the Double Blind Selection method be used.

What happens if both players choose a character and one player wants to change characters in response to their opponent's selection? Do you ever get players stuck in an endless loop of changing characters, or are you not allowed to change your character after your initial selection? Just curious how that plays out in other games.

 

[KrazyKnux]

I think stock count -> percentage -> port priority is a good way to solve time outs/ties. But instead of regular port priority, do it in reverse order. That way we don't give port 1 even more of a negligible advantage, to avoid babies like M2k fighting over the ports lol.

 

[Bones0]

Oh yeah, that actually makes way more sense. lol

 

[Tero.]

Port priority is the most stupid thing I've ever heard.
If you don't want to replay a match just keep sudden Death (obv after Stock/%)

 

[Bones0]

I'd be okay with that too. It really doesn't matter because it will likely never actually happen in tournament. lol

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

I'd like to take this opportunity to remind everyone again that DSR Modified is actually what the EVO rule on CPs is functionally equivalent to. "Standard DSR" is the one where you're not allowed to pick only the last stage you won on [1], and in my opinion should never be used over DSR Modified.

- The only thing about the EVO ruleset that I think needs clarification is how the stage in game 1 is chosen. Stage striking is the standard and I believe it's simple and fast enough to understand and execute. I've explained it to plenty of noobies at tournaments and it's always a quick process.
- Freeze glitch should be legal as long as you don't use it to run the clock out, same caveat we already have with Wobbling.
- If % is tied or there is a same-time death, it should just be a 1 stock rematch on the same stage IMO. I have only seen each of these happen once in 8.5 years at tournaments though.

[1] http://smashboards.com/threads/136570/#post-3702765 Scamp is the "Dave" in "Dave's Stupid Rule."

 

[Scamp]

No one remembers that.

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

I definitely did not expect that to happen.

 

[KrazyKnux]

Freeze glitch shouldn't be legal -.-

c'mon let's just be honest here.

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

It's practically the same as Wobbling and harder to do in practice, so I don't see why not.

 

[Nintendude]

If the freeze glitched player smash DIs into a position where he can no longer be grabbed (which isn't very hard to do), who wins the match?

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

That's an open question. I lean towards the glitcher winning the match, because the glitchee did something to deliberately make the match unplayable, but I can envision arguments for the glitchee as well.

 

[Tee ay eye]

- Freeze glitch should be legal as long as you don't use it to run the clock out, same caveat we already have with Wobbling.

as much as i would love to see wobbles win evo

i don't think freeze glitching should be allowed

 

[Silent Wolf]

so does modified DSR mean no bans?

 

[Bones0]

There are always bans in bo3s.

 

[Nintendude]

That's an open question. I lean towards the glitcher winning the match, because the glitchee did something to deliberately make the match unplayable, but I can envision arguments for the glitchee as well.

Eh...it's really just a big can of worms imo. I actually used to support freeze glitch legality but with the clause that if the match ever becomes unplayable due to the glitch, the activator of the glitch loses. A way to safeguard against smash DI attempts is to just repeatedly down-throw as a way to build damage.

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

The rules don't specify bans or how/if characters can be CP'd. I'm inclined to take that at face value but I'd prefer if there were bans.

 

[Revven]

Mr.Wizard said that it is implied there are character counterpicks and stage counterpicks because character counterpicks (the way it works) is the same across all games. He wants to keep the rules list on the site itself small so it's not daunting for players to read.

 

[Strong Badam]

Character CPs work differently in our community than in the FGC, though, is the point here.

 

[MrWizard]

Can someone summarize the striking rule in one line please?

 

[KrIsP!]

Players ban 4 of the 5 stages for the first match of a set in 1-2-2-1 format.

(reading Evo terminology first game of a match lol)

edit: http://evo.shoryuken.com/evo-player-guide/evo-tournament-rules/ Anyone read this though? The larger portion of general rules for all games and it covers a lot of stuff, like draws being replayed. Skimming through it though I didn't know the winner of a game couldn't change his character in other FGs.

And @fly yeah I know it's really condensed but I rewrote it a few times to just cover what's important. Explaining how to choose who strikes first takes a second sentence and personally whenever I play someone one of us will usually just say you can go first. If someone wants to take a shot feel free, he hasn't read mine yet and any alternative explanation is welcome.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I've never really been a fan of that description of stage striking since I can see more than one way of parsing it. In the spirit of efficiency, I personally would be fine with a simplified stage striking rule such as "Each player strikes two of the five starters to decide the first stage of the set. The order in which the players strike may be decided by coin flip/RPS/etc." Maybe a little less "fair" than the usual system, but it's easy to state, precise, and in all likelihood would still function perfectly well. If anybody is able to concisely and accurately describe the current stage striking procedure instead, be my guest.

 

[Fortune]

players ban 4 of the 5 stages for the first match of a set. player 1 bans a stage. player 2 then bans two stages. player 1 then bans a second stage. the match starts on the remaining stage.