Q&A "Everyone Look At Me!" The Marth Video Critique Thread.

[otg]

We'll marth ditto mm the next time I see you, I look forward to taking your monies.

 

[P. O. F.]

We'll marth ditto mm the next time I see you, I look forward to taking your monies.

Taking a bit of a smash hiatus once SSF IV is out as you can see, but sure. I really don't care.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

i wouldn't uthrow doc. its a good mixup, but its not that great. dthrow and fthrow are both better than uthrow. from fthrow, you get either fsmash or techchase or they jump before they hit the ground (which is the same/better than taking their jump with uthrow). dthrow gives you guaranteed techchase or fsmash.

 

[otg]

i wouldn't uthrow doc. its a good mixup, but its not that great. dthrow and fthrow are both better than uthrow. from fthrow, you get either fsmash or techchase or they jump before they hit the ground (which is the same/better than taking their jump with uthrow). dthrow gives you guaranteed techchase or fsmash.

tbh, I have a harder time dealing with uthrow. Getting Doc above you is a good thing, it's not like he has a super safe way to come down and you have a huge sword and what not. Plus, I feel like on platform stages it's peoples second nature to try and land on the top platform to stabilize and that is something Marth can exploit hard.

Not to say that fthrow and dthrow are bad, if you catch doc with bad DI he's ****ed but that is out of your control. Also for the most part, I think that Marth should be doing as little grabbing against Doc as possible. Why bother getting in close on the mofo when you can just zone the **** out of him?

 

[Niko45]

I agree with POF that it is very similar to sheik in that you should up throw because you can pull some outrageous combos at low % if you catch him but once he gets too high you get less and less from up throw and you might as well dthrow or fthrow and try to land some follow up with knock back.

I would be really interested tho if you know some good examples of tech chasing doc Sveet.

I'm really more concerned about edgeguarding tho.

 

[KirbyKaze]

U-throw --> wait is too funny. And often leads to zany combos.

 

[otg]

For edgeguarding Doc, the standard "grab the edge and force him to upb onto the stage" is always good, but Marth doesn't really have anything good from off the ledge to flat out KO him (tipper uair at stupid high% or nair or something? idk). Dropping with a fair or a bair isn't a bad idea, you just gotta space it right. The best time to throw out a move while he is recovering is when doc is throwing out pills, so if you wait for that you can just punish him.

 

[Niko45]

I just feel like I always get hit by the pills and if I try to take the ledge and force him on stage I'm either too early and he'll stage spike me if I stay on too long or he's already too close and can up B early and hit me as I try to take the edge.

 

[otg]

Word, you just gotta make sure you refresh those invincibility frames and you shouldn't encounter that problem anymore. Doc's recovery is pathetically bad, it's all about knowing how to exploit it.

 

[KirbyKaze]

For edgeguarding Doc, the standard "grab the edge and force him to upb onto the stage" is always good, but Marth doesn't really have anything good from off the ledge to flat out KO him (tipper uair at stupid high% or nair or something? idk). Dropping with a fair or a bair isn't a bad idea, you just gotta space it right. The best time to throw out a move while he is recovering is when doc is throwing out pills, so if you wait for that you can just punish him.

You could do what he's supposed to do against Sheik but nobody can actually do and waveland --> tipper F-smash but nobody can actually do that because idk. Sort of like how nobody in the known universe can tech chase regrab on reaction with any character against the tech stand. It just can't be done.

I think Unknown told me to just grab edge --> some kind of Bair against Doc's low recovery every time, always, because he can't do anything about it.

If he's recovering mid height with pills you can lightshield edgehog his pills and then refresh invincibility and do whatever, which is okay. You can also just avoid the pill and throw a move at him like Bair or Fair or something and push him.

idk biggest problem with people trying to edgeguard Doc in general is not refreshing invincibility on low recoveries so they get stuck or they don't just jump out and hit him when they clearly can.

 

[Tomi-X]

Ref Code: TomiX327

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NXyAyOrb_M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DrDojdBKo0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6agWFgjSVkw

So this is a random set that my buddy and I did a few nights ago, when I first got my capture card. I know SiD isn't the greatest Sheik on the planet, but I was hoping to get a few tips that I can use to improve my marth, TY in advance.

 

[Niko45]

I'm not sure if I know what you guys mean on the edgeguards. I will try lightshield edge hogging I guess and see if I can figure this out. The problem is mostly when doc pills the ledge so I can't get on it. If you see specific spots in the videos where I should have done something differently, that'd be helpful.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

tbh, I have a harder time dealing with uthrow. Getting Doc above you is a good thing, it's not like he has a super safe way to come down and you have a huge sword and what not. Plus, I feel like on platform stages it's peoples second nature to try and land on the top platform to stabilize and that is something Marth can exploit hard.

Not to say that fthrow and dthrow are bad, if you catch doc with bad DI he's ****ed but that is out of your control. Also for the most part, I think that Marth should be doing as little grabbing against Doc as possible. Why bother getting in close on the mofo when you can just zone the **** out of him?

yeah i feel ya. i guess i always think of uthrowing floaties on battle field when people say uthrow. *cringe*

 

[ArcNatural]

I'm not sure if I know what you guys mean on the edgeguards. I will try lightshield edge hogging I guess and see if I can figure this out. The problem is mostly when doc pills the ledge so I can't get on it. If you see specific spots in the videos where I should have done something differently, that'd be helpful.

You can lightshield the pill, making you fall off and grab the edge. If he aims it below the stage you should be able to grab and let it pass harmlessly by while your invincible.

 

[Niko45]

You can lightshield the pill, making you fall off and grab the edge. If he aims it below the stage you should be able to grab and let it pass harmlessly by while your invincible.

Are you sure about this? The pill falls slowly and bounces back off the side of the stage. Everytime I try this I get hit and then stage spiked. I could very well be doing it wrong tho. Are you positive that this is possible?

 

[AustinRC]

Hello everyone! :D I'm Arc went to a tournament not long ago and got some videos of me. Was wondering if you all could give me a few pointers here and there. Well I hope you enjoy! :D

Loser's Semifinals - AustinRC vs SOS
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypr6ByUcuSU
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPklIOsG3-A
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRG88LUtcBU

AustinRC vs Yu
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Py4kw1lsBRg
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpqbOa3MaVU
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBP5KuhPf9w

Grand Finals - AustinRC vs FASTLIKETREE
2.1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiZERwRQG0c
3.1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QGIDLB-o38

Hope you all enjoy tell me what I should work on and tips here and there thanks again! <3

 

[Tee ay eye]

wheres arc vs tree set 1?

 

[P. O. F.]

I love how otg basically said my advice is absolutely horrible......


but then agrees on everything I said.

LOL


I love the smash scene

Hi KirbyKaze!

 

[ChivalRuse]

ARC, hopefully somebody better than me will drop by and pick out things for you to work on, because you already have a well-polished Marth. I can't really give you anything that you don't already know. I did notice that you tend to end combos early, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, and for the most part your combos extended for about as long as they should.

I like your neutral game a lot. I noticed that you're very good about spacing your approaches safely and reacting to how your opponents defend. You seem to be very good at reading people, and you make every attack and movement count, more or less, which is what separates good players from mediocre. Your edgeguarding is also superb. You position bairs very well and are relentless with dtilts. I also like your nairs from the ledge; they were well-timed and thought out.

Overall I just like your style. You get into your opponents' faces and force them to make mistakes, which you're great at punishing. You have some nice trademarks. A couple I liked were your pivot fsmashes and your use of dairs and jabs.

I give your Marth a 5/5.

 

[Tomi-X]

Nothin for me? ;_;

 

[Yo!JinBro]

Wow, ARC, I really admire how you mix up your attacks so effectively. In comparison, the other Marths you played (as well as mine) looks like they're just spamming fairs and fsmashes. I'm especially impressed with the beautiful incorporation of uairs in your combos. I learned a lot from watching your matches (especially the one against Sheik... hate playing Sheik...)!

 

[JBM falcon08]

Arc im not sure if its just your playstyle but at times you look sloppy.

By being sloppy your not moving as fast as possible and your missing some options.

What you do though is really good, and its good to be different.

 

[AustinRC]

Well thank you all for your input. Also JBM it wasnt my style, I was very sloppy at some points its mostly tehcnical errors that I am currently working on. I appreciate all the compliments and am happy I've shown other people some new things but is there anything that you all can tell me that I need to work on? I feel that in some situations I let my opponents free. I feel that it should be one grab = death or at least 80%. With Marth what I mainly try and do is get a grab and upthrow or get them to the edge. From there Marth usually gets free damage or a kill however I seem to not be able to keep them in the air. One thing I do know is that I cannot seem to consistantly hit the uptilt after the upthrow is it guaranteed or can they jump out? Granted shame on me for not catching onto that stuff sooner and just wait for them to jump. IMHO If your opponent uses their double jump and is being juggled they should die always. I'm far from my true potential and I feel that I've hit a brick wall lately I cant seem to improve. Once again thank you all for your nice words but I need some tips or something I can work on other than my tech skill stuff. Smasher <3

Arc

 

[Hadster]

Ref: FoxoF

Hi, I know I'm probably technically breaking the rules here (sorry!)...but I was watching a video of PC Chris (Falco) vs Azen (Marth) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-jvtKfLrGk

At around 1.55, while Azen is try to recover, he jumps BEFORE he begins his side b-ing....I was under the impression that its usually best to save the jump till very close to the ledge for several reasons, including giving you more flexibilty (i.e. if you use it straight away, then your movements from then on are very predictable).

I was wondering if there is any advantage in jumping first? E.g. might it have the advantage of abruptly slowing your momentum, so that it's more likely save you when your really really close to the edge of the box?

If this was a mistake by azen, then sorry for taking your time!

And sorry again for being naughty and posting SOMEONE ELSE'S VIDEO

Thanks in advance

 

[Niko45]

Austin - Marth can jump out, or side B and FF dair you for trying to up tilt him. It's just another situation where things aren't guaranteed and you have to make a good read.

That said, that is what I'd say to work on most. I see you upthrowing sheik and hoping for an up tilt, but you're not ready when she jumps out and comes down on you with bair. You want to be anticipating her escaping, basically assuming that she WILL jump out, and if the up tilt happens to hit you automatically know what to do from there.

You're also having a hard time edgeguarding her, another situation in which you can't really guarantee anything but you need a good mix up game and good reads to be successful. Mix in regular ledge stand up, ledge hop nair, ledge hop dair him if he's going to try to up air you like that, fair from the ledge, roll up, bair from the ledge, wavedash FF off stage bair, etc. If you keep mixing it up well he will be unsure what to do, and will probably end up playing it safe and at least giving you SOME way to continue an edgeguard or punish.

Running dtilt to grab is amazing vs Marth. Use it more.

Another general thing to keep in mind is that it's not about hitting people with Marth it's about how you hit them. You have to make an active effort to push people off stage and into edgeguards at as early a % as you can. Marth honestly has much more kill potential from 0-75 than he does at 75-150, so try to manipulate your opponent into getting "pushed" as opposed to juggled. Some of this takes planning in advance. Don't do X if it is only going to combo into up air, do Y instead. Stuff like that. And yes, stealing jumps is huge with Marth as this is mostly what I'm talking about with really early kill setups.

---

Hadster

It really depends on the situation. Characters like spacies can't really come very far out at you on the edgeguard, and certainly not safely, so using your jump early doesn't hurt you so much. Once you get knocked very far off, you may end up needing that jump to attack the ledge (which you want to do to force the fox/falco off the ledge).

However, other characters like sheik and doc for example can come out at you with bair very easily and safely, so you usually want to stay as far and low as possible against them, using the jump late to either up B to the ledge underneath their bair attempt or on stage if they just hold the ledge.

In general having your jump late gives you much better options for recovery, but there is also some worth to just floating down at a high angle towards the ledge, where you have the threat of just air dodging to a platform/stage or could still float down side Bing the ledge, even when your jump is gone.

Of course ideally you want to have both, but at higher % this just isn't possible, and like I said, against some characters it is more or less valuable for you to be able to recover from very far away.

 

[DJMirror]

Ref Code: DJM

I would like some advice please!

My set in tournament

Match 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pNMBS8b7aI&playnext_from=TL&videos=y2EI-_kC_zo

Match 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKv_vyzrjms&playnext_from=TL&videos=h5Eo6dcHYbo


Thank you =)

 

[P. O. F.]

I'm sorry.....

due to smashboards being uber horrible at searching and stuff i gave up on smashboards for about two weeks. lol.

I'm getting into SSF IV now. Taking a bit of advice/smash hiatus.

If people would like me to critique and are looking for advice, PM me.

 

[stabbedbyanipple]

Someone want to help my marth out for fun? lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgee1DVVZXA

 

[BBQ°]

So... I have some videos uploaded from a tournament I went to last weekend, and I'd like them critiqued

Rayku (Sheik/Ganon) vs BBQ (Marth)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY1uqWmDnSk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syic3QW7VG4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUJggrpZH40

I also have a $200 money match recorded... @_@
yeah... lol. It's pretty intense so you can watch it for kicks if you want, and you may critique if you feel like it. Although, I know that a lot of my problems came from being EXTREMELY nervous, so I was not able to think at all... and my spacing was really off. But watch it anyways
It's best 4 out of 7. Be sure to watch all of it in order, so you won't spoil it or ruin the suspense
part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnUDM3Y8pkA
part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMPoA78YiSU
part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AN6Y7nWS7Q
part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31Xc97orBIs

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Hey BBQ nice marth

You got a few spot dodging and fsmashing habits, but those will [hopefully] go away with time.

When edge guarding ganon, think of him as a fox that can only go in 1 direction and has less range. Jump out there and hit him so hes too far to come back. If he does down b, you get a free spike or upb. If he upb's high you can spike or bair. Ganon can live for a long long time vs fsmash.

Against sheik, try not to do anything laggy like ftilt and fsmash. Just space her out with quick moves and use what you get. Also, when edge guarding her, don't forget about ledgehop nair. When you were on your last stock in game 3 and you were trying to take her 3rd stock, there was a few times in a row where she just got onto the stage fast. Had you done ledgehop nair you would have hit hit backwards away from the stage with no jump.

 

[BBQ°]

Thanks Sveet!

I completely forgot about reverse nair edgeguarding... thanks for reminding me o.O

And yeah, I really need to work on my fsmashing habit. I start to use it too much when I'm desperate for a kill, or if I'm in a situation where it's the last stock of a match, or if it's the last match in the set. Just a nerve issue that I need to kink out. (I also have the same problem where I fish for grabs against spacies).

I normally don't have a spotdodging habit. If I ever spot dodge it's usually a technical mistake and I meant to wavedash or do a downair OoS. I have learned that Marth's spotdodge doesn't help me at all, and I end up getting hit anyways because it's too slow. But I'll be sure to pay more attention to my future matches and make sure I don't spotdoge.

Against Ganon, I usually do go off stage and spike him, but I wasn't feeling very confident against Rayku and I didn't want to screw it up. But yeah, I just need to practice it to the point where I can do it without fear.

Thanks again!

 

[Pi]

melee friendlies (yay actual matches)
feel free to come chat/comment/critique
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/kniht

 

[Siglemic]

This is my friend's marth, i need some advice to give him

He's a really smart player imo idk what he's doing wrong

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ4QHPXZrNU&feature=channel peach
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZvYE5t3Eww&feature=channel peach
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2q0o7dDy4bM&feature=channel falco
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-ypVNoYk8U&feature=channel falco
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZbFvPNgjSw&feature=channel fox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xbL6tsQMyY&feature=channel fox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUElKb_e_ok&feature=channel fox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOCHLcGTfVs&feature=channel fox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiyJQ-AMLTY&feature=channel fox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xbL6tsQMyY fox

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Only watched one vid but it seems like he is lacking in fundamentals. Wavelands and dash dances are mistimed and get punished often, fast falls and wavedashes were non-existent.

Most of it will come from experience, the only he can do is keep playing and staying positive. Try attending some/more tournaments for experience. Post up some more vids in a month of two.

 

[Dart]

Only watched one vid but it seems like he is lacking in fundamentals. Wavelands and dash dances are mistimed and get punished often, fast falls and wavedashes were non-existent.

Most of it will come from experience, the only he can do is keep playing and staying positive. Try attending some/more tournaments for experience. Post up some more vids in a month of two.

Sounds like me about 8 months ago or so. If he attends a few tournaments and asks people for advice after each game he will learn. plus more posting on here will help as well.

 

[Tee ay eye]

refcode: pikajew

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkC6XacXiY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8n9DbpDEJw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrJ_Sm7WV3c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2xriKalMgc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYLEq79koJ8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om4q66UAzxM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8qBtAityTk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUVsiKgM4Nk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSXiUAzP9Ck

 

[BBQ°]

tai i really like your marth

 

[Tee ay eye]

thanks

kind words are always appreciated

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

tai, next time axe jabs you against a wall, sdi up instead of behind him. otherwise pretty good

 

[Tee ay eye]

nah

i already know the best way to escape his infinite jabs

pause the game, and unpause when he's not mashing

if he keeps mashing, wait until he's tired