Q&A "Everyone Look At Me!" The Marth Video Critique Thread.

[ChivalRuse]

I love watching Axe.

Tai is pretty cool too.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

you ate 100% tho lol

if you sdi up, you'll be out after 5% and then (in that situation at least) reverse upb him and edgeguard lol

 

[Tee ay eye]

you ate 100% tho lol

it's cuz i forgot to unplug his controller

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

it's cuz i forgot to unplug his controller

LOL

 

[Niko45]

Just curious Tai, on edgeguarding Pikachu I've always found it difficult to time fsmashes to intercept his recovery and missing those usually gets me punished so instead I usually grab the ledge -> roll up to force him to up B on stage and then punish the lag. You seem to time his recovery really well, though. I'm just wondering if my strat wouldn't work that well on a great pikachu, like would Axe just edge cancel on platforms if you did that?

 

[ChivalRuse]

Isn't it better to stand up from the ledge (rather than the ledge roll), since that way you have more time to get to him when he lands?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

^ kinda but rolling gets you the perfect distance into the stage without leaving the edge zone effectively covering the perfect area so you can fsmash him no matter where he upb's. also, because you're holding the edge he can't do any shenanigans like upbing into the wall and grabbing after you get up.

 

[Tee ay eye]

Just curious Tai, on edgeguarding Pikachu I've always found it difficult to time fsmashes to intercept his recovery and missing those usually gets me punished so instead I usually grab the ledge -> roll up to force him to up B on stage and then punish the lag. You seem to time his recovery really well, though. I'm just wondering if my strat wouldn't work that well on a great pikachu, like would Axe just edge cancel on platforms if you did that?

i prefer to hit him out of his upB cuz i can. usually when he recovers onto the stage, he'll have enough lag time to not get hit by something massive (like an fsmash), and he'll just crouch cancel whatever i do to him from the ledge. if he fails in crouch canceling, he's still alive, which is not what i want.

to fsmash/dtilt/grab pikachu's recovery, you have to walk as far out as possible (like, teetering off the ledge)

it's kinda weird. like, pikachu's body warps around and stuff during the like, end of the second warp of his up B (essentially making him invincible), so i try to hit him at the startup of the second part of his upB (which is why you walk out as far as possible)

if you try to space for the ledge, you won't hit him if he sweetspots

i'm not sure how to hit him out of the FIRST warp of his upB, but i do it a lot. i WANT to imagine that both warps are the exact same, but i really don't know. i guess i just instinctively know how to hit it now haha

 

[ThatGuy]

Hi guys, just wanted some critique on my Marth. Vids are a couple months old but I haven't played since then so it's not like I got any better .

Me vs Matt 1/2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kktvKgEdFGg
Me vs Matt 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edvI3B5QTSY

Thanks!

 

[AceDudeyeah]

I've come a long way, I really like the way my Marth turned out.
Here's some tourney vids from last weekend.

If anything, I want you all to watch the matches of me vs. Falcon. I love fighting falcon.
Still learning the samus matchup, but it should be simple. Don't eat missiles, space, etc. Dang, how does she grab the edge that quick after grappling??

Singles

AceDudeYea (marth) vs. knihT (samus) 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcElyPFeDBs
AceDudeYea (marth) vs. knihT (samus) 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2sDrX9ZK40
AceDudeYea (marth) vs. knihT (samus) 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NJ1UlMlI_k

AceDudeYea (marth) vs. Nasty (falcon) 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hzx9GJH4qA
AceDudeYea (marth) vs. Nasty (falcon) 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17WRbW0P23Q
AceDudeYea (marth) vs. Nasty (falcon) 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AiDCm7oGTQ
AceDudeYea (marth) vs. Nasty (falcon) 4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvW_Ll76Z10

Now if it wasn't for the stupid tech skill mishaps every now and then...

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I couldn't finish watching 1 stock. stop jabbing samus.

 

[AceDudeyeah]

I couldn't finish watching 1 stock. stop jabbing samus.

naw, way man. Jab is a big(relatively compared to other marth's), componnent of my game.
Against people with grapple grabs, jabbing is one of my moves after shffl'ing their shield.
And I jab after a whiff shffl to block someone's approach, if I feel like dashing away would not be adequate.
However, I watched that first match. yeah, samus does have an easier time crouch-cancel-anything-to-****'ing.
samus matchup tip noted.

 

[Dart!]

naw, way man. Jab is a big(relatively compared to other marth's), componnent of my game.
Against people with grapple grabs, jabbing is one of my moves after shffl'ing their shield.
And I jab after a whiff shffl to block someone's approach, if I feel like dashing away would not be adequate.
However, I watched that first match. yeah, samus does have an easier time crouch-cancel-anything-to-****'ing.
samus matchup tip noted.

get samus in the air with your feet on the ground and she shouldn't touch terra firma till after she respawns.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

^ that

also, in every situation i saw you use jab on samus, dtilt would have been MUCH better. Why would you spam an easily CC'd move vs one of the best CCers in the game? Just a bad idea overall. Dtilt and nairs are all you need vs samus. Occasionally an fsmash or a fair, but mostly nair and dtilt. They both beat her CC game and they both are easily spammed and very difficult for samus to punish.

 

[Dart!]

everytime she attempts to grab if you're fast enough to react just throw your grab out, or you could jump over it and punish. Realistically though the only thing you should avoid at all costs is being hit by her nair and dair and missiles. obviously eating CC'd Dsmash is a no-no.

watch some old ken vs hugs vids, those help me alot.

 

[Palpi]

Jabbing samus is amazing if you want to get punished all the time.

 

[Archangel]

I wasn't going to put this here but.....**** it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yajpRdaOZnw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zIQh0ee-Ac

I know for the record I over used Nair's and Dash attacks.
I also know I should have Wave dashed out of shield instead of rolled. However it was intense and I wanted to win the 70% of the $45 and I was playing crazy at times.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Marth and sheik are almost identical in shield and grab. When playing the match-up you have to keep that in mind. In times when you could shield against another character, you can't necessarily shield against sheik because of her grab. Likewise for her though.

As far as attacks go, marth out ranges sheik which puts her in a unique situation because sheik generally has more range and priority than every other character. Because of this unique situation, sheik has to play a little differently. For the first half of your stock you can CC any attack, so you only have to avoid grabs.

How i would explain this match-up in a nutshell: play very safe in neutral position, you have a little easier time getting in on her than vice versa. When you get a hit, don't let her go. Don't try something stupid or fancy, just get the job done. Thats not to say play basic and try guaranteed stuff, because there is none that works on sheik besides edgehog->fsmash. Just don't try to go for reads because they won't pay off in the long run. Don't spam sideb or jab cause they suck and you'll get punished when she CCs. When you get hit, save your jump no matter what. SDI her attack if you can do it, but make sure you save your jump til the end.

 

[Archangel]

Marth and sheik are almost identical in shield and grab. When playing the match-up you have to keep that in mind. In times when you could shield against another character, you can't necessarily shield against sheik because of her grab. Likewise for her though.

As far as attacks go, marth out ranges sheik which puts her in a unique situation because sheik generally has more range and priority than every other character. Because of this unique situation, sheik has to play a little differently. For the first half of your stock you can CC any attack, so you only have to avoid grabs.

How i would explain this match-up in a nutshell: play very safe in neutral position, you have a little easier time getting in on her than vice versa. When you get a hit, don't let her go. Don't try something stupid or fancy, just get the job done. Thats not to say play basic and try guaranteed stuff, because there is none that works on sheik besides edgehog->fsmash. Just don't try to go for reads because they won't pay off in the long run. Don't spam sideb or jab cause they suck and you'll get punished when she CCs. When you get hit, save your jump no matter what. SDI her attack if you can do it, but make sure you save your jump til the end.

Good stuff. As for the SideB combo's I tried I have played PB in Thousands of friendlies so even though I feel like I'm a notch above him he can pull out a victory at least with his Sheik because he always saves his sheik for Seriouslies, MM's, and Tourney Matches. I have to adjust to fighting sheik who aside from Jiggs is my worse match with Marth. I feel better using Falco, Falcon, Fox, or Sheik but My Pride made me remain marth

I just need to play more sheik vs Marth matches and keep counter picking lol. ROFL@ him CPing Yoshi's...wtf was he thinking? Anyways, If I play more sheik it will be easier. Honestly all I have to go on for Marth vs Sheik prior to this is like 4 friendly matches vs sheik between January and yesterday and M2K vs KDJ videos. The crouch canceling should help alot. I don't know why I never thought to do that. Normally I don't have to or I feel so in control I don't care. I feel like I am stronger even if it's even as a match. That has alot to do with how I play. If I get some matches recorded of me vs his Falcon, Fox, Falco, Peach...etc then it would be far different. He's given up though so in a serious match he'll always go Sheik. If he does go someone else Fox/Falco mainly then I will 4 stock or JV 5 him sometimes(Lasers don't count) So I just have to find a way to practice against Sheik on lvl 1 CPU's maybe.....

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Lvl1 sheik won't help. If you're looking to practice combos, practice on a human marth. Marth has similar escapes as sheik from marth's combos and lots of the same things worth in at the same times. But i guess if you can get a human marth to practice on, you could get a human shiek...

anyways, just get more experience in the MU, practicing on lvl1s won't help you now, itll only serve to teach you bad habits and make you think things that don't work will

 

[Archangel]

Lvl1 sheik won't help. If you're looking to practice combos, practice on a human marth. Marth has similar escapes as sheik from marth's combos and lots of the same things worth in at the same times. But i guess if you can get a human marth to practice on, you could get a human shiek...

anyways, just get more experience in the MU, practicing on lvl1s won't help you now, itll only serve to teach you bad habits and make you think things that don't work will

The lvl1 sheik was a joke btw. I was basically implying that I have no human practice and he won't uses his sheik in friendlies with me lol. I'll have to find someone else to get experience in the Match-up with.

 

[AceDudeyeah]

How could I have ended this combo better?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsKAxnbkuGA#t=1m32s

Starting from the upthrow and ending with him jumping away from my uptilt.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

well your very first problem is you like to combo by standing in place and utilting over and over. he actually escaped the combo after your 2nd utilt, but failed to do anything with it. had you simply done uthrow utilt regrab uthrow fsmash you would have been edge guarding him, instead you juggled him above you for a little more percent but it lead to nothing worth while and you got combo'd to death afterwards.

 

[AceDudeyeah]

man, whenever I end with a forward smash, I always feel like there was something better that would have continued the combo and still end in an fsmash/strong hit....but I guess with Marth you're still good to go edgeguarding, especially falco. haha

at the very start with the upthrow to uptilt, would his hitstun have lasted until he hit the ground?
I grab if the uptilt doesn't send a spacy that high, but I thought that falco would be able to jump if I waited for him to get into grab range so I uptilted instead.

oh, yes. you said that was the 1st problem. were there any other problems you noticed?

 

[stelzig]

I would've fsmashed or shffl'd a Uair after the first utilt, but I don't know if that would actually have been better ;_;

 

[AceDudeyeah]

I would've fsmashed or shffl'd a Uair after the first utilt, but I don't know if that would actually have been better ;_;

I always feel whenever I start shffl upairs on spacies that that's all I'll do. juggle 'em with upairs without really getting to finish it.
that's why I try to get a softspot upair in there, so it doesn't send them too far up and they can come back down for an fsmash or somethin'. but I can't set it up right. haha


hmm, the fsmash wouldn't really set up for edgeguarding if they DI the upthrow towards the stage, however on di outside, fsmash!

 

[Palpi]

You can end it with a nair to get them off stage and proceed to edgeguard. Even if you don't get the edgeguard for kill. It is free percent if you position yourself correctly.

 

[AceDudeyeah]

hmm, i'll try that. nair after uair juggling, usually at full hop height, right? or will they be in hitstun long enough to fall into a shffl nair?

also, I'l go for a full hop aerial and see what I can do after uptilt juggling(not too many uptilts so I can follow it up). I love having a smash neighbor 5 doors down from me.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

If you tip the fsmash it will send them very far regarless of their DI.

 

[stelzig]

hmm, the fsmash wouldn't really set up for edgeguarding if they DI the upthrow towards the stage, however on di outside, fsmash!

The fsmash I suggested was also after the third uptilt where he did go away from the stage and set up for a tipper. Unless i'm wrong and he could jump out before the fsmash (which I can see he probably could)... But then the Uair should at least still work and then i'd try to go with the flow from there.
I really don't have much actual multiplayer experience so i'm not too confident in anything I say here

Edit: And then again if he's so desperate to jump out of things you could also just let him jump and then follow him with Uairs to an fsmash there... Assuming Uair beats Dair.

 

[Dart!]

How could I have ended this combo better?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsKAxnbkuGA#t=1m32s

Starting from the upthrow and ending with him jumping away from my uptilt.

Tippered Fsmash at 1:36ish

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Tippered Fsmash at 1:36ish

l2combo

uthrow utilt uthrow fsmash > uthrow utilt fsmash

 

[Dart!]

l2combo

uthrow utilt uthrow fsmash > uthrow utilt fsmash

Didn't i four stock you in a mm and crew battle? pretty sure i know how to combo

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

didn't you get 2 stocked by andale's falco on FD LOL

 

[Dart!]

didn't you get 2 stocked by andale's falco on FD LOL

You act like the matchup is 100-0 on that stage. Anthony beat M2KS MARTH with falco so GG.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qHUzxbHmbE

0:32-0:40 combo
0:58-1:05 was a mistake that should have been a combo finisher.

still, i have plenty of combos and tbh i wasn't at my best last saturday...take that john for what you will see you at POE where i won't be hearing bs like this again.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Anthony beat M2KS MARTH with falco so GG.

Woah. When did this happen?

 

[Niko45]

lmao @ midwest marth beef. "Didn't you lose this one time? BOOM"

So....**** sheik?

 

[GooeyBanana]

ChivalRuse, it happened at M.A.S. this weekend that just finished. It was just a friendly, but he(M2K) was still ****** me in friendlies, just like M2K always does. He takes them things seriously. Plus, Anthony was on fire, like he was just about on the level of Tink and Kels that day. Same goes for Josh, he even was taking matches off both of them and had a close set with Tink's Sheik in tourney. I do have to say, ouch @ Sveet. Getting 4 stocked > getting 2 stocked >=P. And yes, I got 3 stocked by a Peach in the crew battle, being the grown up johns =D? Just had to put that there in case it was brought up =P

And to add to this thread, Marth basically works like this against spacies. Grab them. Kill them. Seriously, Tink and Kels would **** bricks everytime M2K grabbed them. Make them fear that grab!

 

[Dart!]

ChivalRuse, it happened at M.A.S. this weekend that just finished. It was just a friendly, but he(M2K) was still ****** me in friendlies, just like M2K always does. He takes them things seriously. Plus, Anthony was on fire, like he was just about on the level of Tink and Kels that day. Same goes for Josh, he even was taking matches off both of them and had a close set with Tink's Sheik in tourney. I do have to say, ouch @ Sveet. Getting 4 stocked > getting 2 stocked >=P. And yes, I got 3 stocked by a Peach in the crew battle, being the grown up johns =D? Just had to put that there in case it was brought up =P

And to add to this thread, Marth basically works like this against spacies. Grab them. Kill them. Seriously, Tink and Kels would **** bricks everytime M2K grabbed them. Make them fear that grab!

Bolded for truth

 

[ChivalRuse]

Getting grabbed by M2K is not fun. All I can say after two friendlies with him. Lol.