Q&A "Everyone Look At Me!" The Marth Video Critique Thread.

[P. O. F.]

bbq marth

i enjoyed watching your set w fmtl. You're stage presence was very good VS his Fox but his marth is easily 3X better. You need to work on dealing w illusion and punishing that better. Yes, grabbing them out of it is nice but keeping them off stage is better. he practically used it everytime when recovering and do you know why? He knew you weren't punishing it hard enough. Jab is your best friend with this and i feel d tilt is only good if you sweet spot it. Your chain grab game is very nice but you need to learn what to do if they forward DI the throw at 30%. Usually dash attack is nice and then you can follow up with fsmash or aerials. If you get a lead on Fox make sure he always approaches you. All this match up is is bait and punish. Whoever makes the first offensive move usually gets ***** because both Fox and Marth are so good at baiting attacks and then ****** people.

I feel on your second set you should have 3 stocked him even on Rainbow and taken the set at 2-0. Your Marth should have no problem dealing with a Fox like that. Not to degrade him, but you knew your stuff more than he did.


Overall your edge game needs a little work, work on more throw setups from grabs instead of throwing out f smashes and pray they tech into it, not ever going into the air in marth dittos unless you sent the marth in the air first, and thats all i have right now



goodnight, im tired.

 

[BBQ°]

Thanks POF, that helped a lot

 

[sudzi781]

refcode: sudzi781isanub

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJUx-gC_614&feature=PlayList&p=7C466F0AEC167913&index=0

A couple of matches me and my friend played.

 

[stelzig]

^You roll too much/all the time. Rolling behind your opponent is stupid and instead of rolling back in pretty much all the situations you did you could have got back faster and without lag/vulnerability by simply running/dashdancing into that position. Try grabbing sometime too.
I'll let the good, experienced players comment the rest so i don't say something stupid...

 

[P. O. F.]

sudzi781isanub

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n4s5yB7ZkE

Not trying to be mean but you should watch those three videos. They are the first steps that a comeptitive player needs to take in order to begin heading in the right direction of competitive play.

Quick tips that come to my mind:

A-NEVER ROLL. Shield, WD out of shield, Run Away, Spot Dodge. All you need. Marths run speed and pivot will put you in a good enough place to react to missed attacks by your opponent.

B-When you are edge guarding ALWAYS wait for your opponent to make the first move and go somewhere and THEN react.

Remember, react....don't act.



Work on those things for now. If I told you everything I can think of your head might explode. Don't want to overwhelm a new player.

 

[Dart]

refcode: easymatchup?

can't believe i lost this set, i seem to suck against tiers lower than high idk why. help?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0u5nnJ0jxE Vs Roy 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70qHdPHpYEI&feature=related game 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1qwMjaHCYc&feature=related game 3

 

[P. O. F.]

easymatchup

Roy literally is a joke. One of Marths easiest match ups.......

D Tilt, U tilt, u throw,

That's all you really need. When you grab him ALWAYS u throw him and then u tilt him. DO NOT NAIR HIM. Arguably your worst move against Roy. No point what so ever in this match up. If he jumps out of the u throw following him and u air and then have a ball with fairs, uairs, fsmash and dair. Try to always finish him in one combo. Its usually pretty easy.

D tilt is so ****ing stupid for edge guarding roy it's not even funny. It ***** him HARD. The reason you lost the set was solely because you were just recovering like a moron and kept running into his crap. lol. Just recover safely and dont contest him for an attack as your trying to make it back. Despite how bad Roy is, any character that is edge guarding has the advantage if the opponent who is recovering attacks the person on stage. They just react to what you do...and **** you.

You had game one simply because you did u throw u tilt BS and did nice d tilt edge guards. Stop running around stage (with your back facing Roy...not good!) and whiffing f smashes and praying for that tipper. Bad idea.

Comboing Roy is extremely fun w u throw, u tilt, uair and fair. Don't ever do anything but d tilt near the ledge.


I'll iterate this again: It ***** Roy.

Spacing fairs is always nice too but I don't really use them much except to help me lead into a grab...which I do for most characters.



Go back and watch your set though. You will notice anytime you U threw you had a nice chain going and when you spaced d tilt PROPERLY near the ledge you had the gimp.

- POF

 

[Niko45]

Dart - I'll just point out the glaring issues.

1) You need to get on the ledge when recovering. You are double jumping back on stage or side Bing down on to the stage and just getting smacked for doing that, now jumpless, and getting killed. It's happening extremely often. Concentrate on double jump sweet spotting the ledge and be confident in it.

2) You are constantly approaching from the air which is very bad. He's just waiting and CCing or shielding and then turning it on you. Stay on the ground and DD for grabs. You are also determined no matter what they you are going to come down on him with a dair if he pops you up in the air. Stop doing that too. Air dodge, drift towards a ledge, just get yourself down and stop attacking him from a bad position.

3) You need to space dtilt better, but generally you need to stop spamming dtilt on stage. Dtilting when he is out of range is leaving you wide open, not walling him out at all, so dtilt and do something else after it (dash away). Watch the fsmashes on stage too.

In general you are extremely aggressive and he's playing that appropriately by waiting and just punishing. The recovery is actually the biggest red flag because its just getting you hit and killed way too much way too early. Look for grabs more. Maybe wait and see what he does for a change before you bust in swinging your sword and ****. Try to only go into the air for follow ups, like after you've up thrown or something. Don't go into the air from neutral position.

 

[P. O. F.]

1) You need to get on the ledge when recovering. You are double jumping back on stage or side Bing down on to the stage and just getting smacked for doing that, now jumpless, and getting killed.

2) You are constantly approaching

Yeah, that's pretty much it in a nutshell. Your recoveries were a big reason why you lost.

 

[Dart]

i'm starting to play aggro fsmash again *sigh* thanks for the help.

 

[BBQ°]

You should just make Roy approach you. The best he could do is approach with grab, and if that's his only option, you should see it coming. You can crouch cancel all of his other approaches lol.

When edgeguarding Roy, I like to use counter, instead of dtilting or grabbing the ledge. It has the most consistent results for me since I don't think Roy can sweet spot the ledge very well.

Another thing, if you counterpick Dreamland or Battlefield and camp the top platform, Roy literally can't do anything to you, LOL.

 

[P. O. F.]

Roy can d tilt. Its one of his best attacks. It pops you up leading to grabs, f smash, fair, nair, whatever.

 

[BBQ°]

Doesn't it only pop you up if Roy sweetspots it? That'll be difficult to approach with if you have to sweetspot it. If Roy doesn't sweetspot it then you can crouch cancel it some moreeeeeee

 

[Dark Sonic]

On Marth Roy's d-tilt doesn't lead to anything other than Fair, Uair, or Nair past like 50% <_<. I'm not scared of any of those moves.

 

[Tichinde925]

I only have one recent vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHgc7DOPrHc

What should I be doing more of and less of against Captain Falcon?

 

[P. O. F.]

I'll watch that ^ tomorrow morning. tired as hell now. night.

 

[ArcNatural]

I'm feeling the itch... too... critique... I don't think I've critiqued a match in months.

 

[Niko45]

Dang Tich, you guys are good! Couple things:

1) Stop recovering so high on stage. Use the space off stage and double jump sweetspot the ledge (it is your best friend). By recovering the way you do eventually he's just going to clobber you much harder for exposing yourself right above the edge.

2) You're a little over-reliant on nair in a couple of situations. First, when he is above you, you should try to catch him with fair or up air. Nair leaves you very vulnerable from above. Also on the edge guard, when he is recovering very high you want to weak fair him back off. Nair gives him too much height.

3) When you get grabs at low percents, concentrate on throwing and regrabbing. You just want to grind out some % til you can combo him.

 

[Dart]

so i need some advice for the falco matchup. not the lasers though, the shine...i can't seem to get out of my friends GAY as hell shine combos and if i manage to live i'm at around 90-120 percent and he pretty much can just CC and be gay, how should i avoid shine comboes?

 

[Tichinde925]

Also on the edge guard, when he is recovering very high you want to weak fair him back off. Nair gives him too much height.

The 3:02 mark in the vid, was a phantom hit forward air

 

[MT_]

Hey guys I am sort of new to the whole Smashboards community, but I was hoping that someone could give me some pointers in general on my Marth, and also some pointers in the Falco match-up here.

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUDakQsEMjA
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-BVKurwzzk
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaTVkcTNSiY

Reference code: MT

Any critique is appreciated, thanks!

 

[Dart]

MT i liked what i saw (mostly) *keep in mind i also watched that lolcrew battle*
cept your DI...is so bad, you need to see the hit coming and DI accordingly
you need to get the most out of your grabs, yeah you CGed but alot of the time you could have turned it from gaining percent to a stock with minimal effort but you would pivot or just not punish at all.
if you uthrow at percents below 50 and he lands in range of jab and doesn't tech jab reset regrab or dtilt if near ledge.

POWERSHIELD LASERS

 

[DJMirror]

Can someone give me tips on my set against maple (15th best in so cal)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSKRbu6BplI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxFXXn2E9TM


refcode: sara

I was wondering how to get the sheik off stage because i kinda know how to edgeguard them and keep them up in the air (sorta) but i need help getting them off stage after juggling them up with upairs

thank you

-JKUN (i just changed my name)

 

[Niko45]

I feel you, JKUN, I need some sheik help too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7KLCEBsVfQ

There's also a million vs Fox vids on that channel if anyone wants to give me tips vs fox.

 

[Dart]

Niko good ****...just don't dash attack at all against sheik. thats just begging her to punish you. instead of walking to the ledge and fsmash hoping to tip, dtilt and then wavedash back fsmash, cuz she'll probably ledgehop fair.

BTW: always forward b when you get knocked away from the stage first. never jump to FB unless you are close to the stage.

 

[Niko45]

lol yea my dash attacks are so dumb. It doesn't even pay off that well vs sheik. Oh man and that fsmash...so greedy. Mistakes hurt so bad vs her.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Why so much FJ Fair?

 

[Niko45]

Yea I should stop that. I fell in love with it a while back bc for some reason it was really effective. It has started to get me brutally punished tho especially in that FD match.

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U_LqIbhTCw

General tips plz, also on the 2nd match I stopped playing about half way through.. you'll see why.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Are you a member of the Central Ohio Krew? Lol.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4quedppgM8

I was nervous and made some mistakes, but probably one of my favorite sets i've ever played. Luke is really good and we always go pretty close. We happened to meet in losers bracket (him after losing first round vs someone idk, then winning over AOB; me after winning first round winners and loosing to smeesh 2nd round in winners). I lost game one (it wasn't recorded i guess) and CPed to FoD. I die without dealing any damage and have to pull it back.

 

[Dart]

Wow after telling you niko some stuff NOT to do against sheik i do it anyway. why do i suck so bad? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14fMdAsWsys&feature=channel

second match i go fox but i know some of you probably use him as a secondary so advice would be awesome for him as well

 

[KirbyKaze]

lol waveshining against the fin on corneria

 

[fexi]

I feel you, JKUN, I need some sheik help too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7KLCEBsVfQ

There's also a million vs Fox vids on that channel if anyone wants to give me tips vs fox.

Wow.
Er, hey, I'm new to the boards (long time reader), but I have to say, I really admire how slick your marth is, and how smooth you play. That was great inspiration for me (especially since it was a sheik match... [the only person I get to play regularly is a sheik main]).

Just one question; what does FJ in "FJ fair" mean?

Hopefully I'll figure out how to record matches so I can beg for advice soon...

 

[Niko45]

Wow after telling you niko some stuff NOT to do against sheik i do it anyway.

Haha, I feel your pain. It's all so much easier said than done. It looks to me like you're just approaching way way too blatantly. He's just waiting for you and ur jumping into whatever he wants really. Probably just anxious in tournament and what not but fight the urge.

I wish I could have made it out (somehow) to SMYM. That tournament looked awesome.

Wow.
Er, hey, I'm new to the boards (long time reader), but I have to say, I really admire how slick your marth is, and how smooth you play. That was great inspiration for me (especially since it was a sheik match... [the only person I get to play regularly is a sheik main]).

Just one question; what does FJ in "FJ fair" mean?

Thanks! FJ Fair = Full Jump Forward-Air.

 

[otg]

I wish I could have made it out (somehow) to SMYM. That tournament looked awesome.

Eggm actually offered me a spot in his car... if I had known you were interested in going I would've given it to you cause I couldn't go anyway.

 

[Dart]

Haha, I feel your pain. It's all so much easier said than done. It looks to me like you're just approaching way way too blatantly. He's just waiting for you and ur jumping into whatever he wants really. Probably just anxious in tournament and what not but fight the urge.

I wish I could have made it out (somehow) to SMYM. That tournament looked awesome.



Thanks! FJ Fair = Full Jump Forward-Air.

hahaha! you're probably right, let me tell you how the whole thing went for me.
I get second seed in a decent pool. Only one really big name there, IHaveSpaceBalls and i play the most intense marth samus set ive ever seen next to Ken vs Hugs in MLG days.
Fastforward to bracket,
First round: i get the BEST SHEIK FROM ST LOUIS MO and got wrecked :/
Second round: i get some falco fox player that lost to vans, 3 stocked him twice
Third Round: i get Moogle who alot of people said was really good, so me being happy that i have competition this round ask him who he plays, he said with a half smirk half "im sorry i know its your worst matchup but no johns" smile "Sheik!"...sufficed to say i wanted to DIE ON THE INSIDE
first game as you saw, wrecked cuz i just got anxious and wasn't playing smart.
second round i went fox for my friend, cuz his grandma died and he couldn't go...so shoutouts to BlackPanther i know you won't see this but it was for you man ^_^

 

[The Newb]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4quedppgM8

I was nervous and made some mistakes, but probably one of my favorite sets i've ever played. Luke is really good and we always go pretty close. We happened to meet in losers bracket (him after losing first round vs someone idk, then winning over AOB; me after winning first round winners and loosing to smeesh 2nd round in winners). I lost game one (it wasn't recorded i guess) and CPed to FoD. I die without dealing any damage and have to pull it back.

I lurk this thread from time to time, being a ***** and not actually helping anybody but reading and whatnot. Just wanted to say that in the time I've been lurking, which is a few months, you've improved drastically. Impressive - keep it up.

 

[I.B]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4quedppgM8

I was nervous and made some mistakes, but probably one of my favorite sets i've ever played. Luke is really good and we always go pretty close. We happened to meet in losers bracket (him after losing first round vs someone idk, then winning over AOB; me after winning first round winners and loosing to smeesh 2nd round in winners). I lost game one (it wasn't recorded i guess) and CPed to FoD. I die without dealing any damage and have to pull it back.

In the first match, your edge game was shaky offensively and defensively.

At 0:10, after you did B-air, you chose to Forward B with your head sticking right above the edge which is pretty risky. Instead, you could've just dropped onto the edge. Then after he hit you with a F-smash, I think you panicked a little and DJ'd immediately and F-aired to protect yourself. Considering he's on the edge with invincibility frames, this spells out death for you pretty much. After you got F-smashed, you could've dropped down a little, Forward-b'd to bait him off the edge then Up-B to it. Or you could've DJ'd like you did, then air-dodge back onto the stage.

1:00 was probably a mistake. I'm sure you know what you could have done.

1:15, after he Up-B'd up and started falling, F-smashing him back off stage would have been good.

1:40 pretty much the same thing as above.

1:57 probably meant to d-tilt, good choice.

2:25 if you countered by the edge and followed up that would have been his stock.

2:38 - 2:40 a quick enough reaction with f-smash on both those air dodges would have resulted in him off-stage with no DJ.

 

[P. O. F.]

If you are in this thread and have not seen I. B.'s combo video with some of the prettiest Marth combos......


I hate you. LOL

it's soooooo good.


also, never ask me for Sheik advice? I suck at it and don't understand it myself.

All I know is that SHFF fairs and d tilt are your best ground approaches and are the safest.