Sasha
Smash Journeyman
I'd just like to say that I very much appreciate the existence of this thread. My Marth is starting to grow by leaps and bounds, and this thread is giving me some much needed direction.
You all rock.
You all rock.
-
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Q&A "Everyone Look At Me!" The Marth Video Critique Thread.
- Thread starter P. O. F.
- Start date
Dart
Smash Lord
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJkCWZ0qY2M&feature=sub
ref code-lolsandbagging
this is how you four stock falcon mains
ref code-lolsandbagging
this is how you four stock falcon mains
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
puckedup
Sorry, this critique is kind of late. I apologize if I seem harsh in advance. My goal is just to help you improve. ^_^
You're doing a lot of things right. For now, I noticed that your tech skill was a bit lackluster. I'm not saying that you didn't have control of your character. The main problem is that you lack speed. Marth is a lot slower than Falco. You're going to have trouble keeping up with high level space animals if you forebear to fast fall your aerials most of the time. Like, occasionally you would SHFFL a nair or something. However, I noticed that the trend was for you to do FJ double aerials without fastfalling, etc.
One thing that might help you a lot is to develop of good sense of spacing. Whenever you would approach or attack with the FJ aerial to a other descending aerial, I noticed that in addition to not fastfalling, you would also continue to move forward until landing again. In general, this is a bad tactic for Marth. When he lands, he's vulnerable to being grabbed, tilted, smashed, you name it. It's far better to hold the control stick away from your opponent when you do an aerial - that way, you're extending the gap between yourself and him. In order to hit you, your opponent will have to get past your sword, and then move even closer to you, since you're retreating. When you move toward your opponent while aerialing, you eliminate the need for him to move towards you at all. He can actually just move back and fsmash you.
The only other main hindrance that I can see in your execution is your disregard for the invincibility frame system. When your opponent techs on the ground, he is invincible for a short amount of time (during the tech roll, or during the little flip that he or she does when teching in place). I saw you repeated upthrow Falco onto the platform (which is the best decision), and then sadly waste the opportunity to score juggle damage or a tipper because you would immediately utilt with such timing that the sword hitbox would contact him during the invincibility frames of his tech. Just time your attacks and grabs so that they connect with respect to this system and you'll be able to tech chase and follow-up moves a million times better.
Sorry, this critique is kind of late. I apologize if I seem harsh in advance. My goal is just to help you improve. ^_^
You're doing a lot of things right. For now, I noticed that your tech skill was a bit lackluster. I'm not saying that you didn't have control of your character. The main problem is that you lack speed. Marth is a lot slower than Falco. You're going to have trouble keeping up with high level space animals if you forebear to fast fall your aerials most of the time. Like, occasionally you would SHFFL a nair or something. However, I noticed that the trend was for you to do FJ double aerials without fastfalling, etc.
One thing that might help you a lot is to develop of good sense of spacing. Whenever you would approach or attack with the FJ aerial to a other descending aerial, I noticed that in addition to not fastfalling, you would also continue to move forward until landing again. In general, this is a bad tactic for Marth. When he lands, he's vulnerable to being grabbed, tilted, smashed, you name it. It's far better to hold the control stick away from your opponent when you do an aerial - that way, you're extending the gap between yourself and him. In order to hit you, your opponent will have to get past your sword, and then move even closer to you, since you're retreating. When you move toward your opponent while aerialing, you eliminate the need for him to move towards you at all. He can actually just move back and fsmash you.
The only other main hindrance that I can see in your execution is your disregard for the invincibility frame system. When your opponent techs on the ground, he is invincible for a short amount of time (during the tech roll, or during the little flip that he or she does when teching in place). I saw you repeated upthrow Falco onto the platform (which is the best decision), and then sadly waste the opportunity to score juggle damage or a tipper because you would immediately utilt with such timing that the sword hitbox would contact him during the invincibility frames of his tech. Just time your attacks and grabs so that they connect with respect to this system and you'll be able to tech chase and follow-up moves a million times better.
Eon the Wolf
Smash Ace
Hate to ask, but it's been almost a week. Anyone have any critique for me? I listed my uploads gallery which has all my smash videos (and only smash videos are uploaded so....). I didn't want to post each link because thats 10 links for 5 matches and I felt that would've been pushing it so....
P. O. F.
Smash Ace
Its easier if you just post 1-3 matches at a time as opposed to saying, "Hey guys, go watch ten of my videos." Would you want to watch ten of my matches and critique them all? Probably not. Pick your most recent ones and link them to us. Obviously critiquing your old ones won't help you much because you've probably gotten better since then.
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
I really want to critique something. But everyone's critique is pretty good!
POF you should point out vids that you would like to see my critiques on, It takes me a while to find videos that I like and I just don't have the time I used to (a lot of my time on SWF is spent checking everything melee XD).
POF you should point out vids that you would like to see my critiques on, It takes me a while to find videos that I like and I just don't have the time I used to (a lot of my time on SWF is spent checking everything melee XD).
Eon the Wolf
Smash Ace
Well, they were all taken on the same day, right after another. havent had space or time to record more, but I'll try to pick 2 or 3 sets matches...
Niko45
Smash Master
Ref Code 2Niko2 :
Vs Fox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV0e6uusM28
Vs Peach
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mO1mQvh9LPI&feature=channel
I really need help these characters give me big problems. Thanks.
Vs Fox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV0e6uusM28
Vs Peach
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mO1mQvh9LPI&feature=channel
I really need help these characters give me big problems. Thanks.
Eon the Wolf
Smash Ace
Ref Code: 12KIR4
----------
Okay, Here are 2 matches of Marth (Me obviously) vs my friend's link. Most of these recorded matches, he actually was trying to get OFF of relying on grab so much, although it's started to creep back in so....I figure I'll ask here since it's important and I think it's seen at least once in one of these 4 link vids I have; Is there any known reason that when Im directly BEHIND Link and his grab goes out...it 'teleports' me to it? O.o
Me vs his link #1 (Vid #1)
---------------------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPgCosZfPrU (Part 1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AzVZ9ZW4tA (Part 2)
Me vs his link #2 (Vid #3)
--------------------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZhAHPTvFXQ (Part 1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJn31Cr8bxc (Part 2)
Me vs his sheik #1 (Vid #2)
--------------------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q43MksI08JQ (Part 1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Wd_6OSv0DU (Part 2)
(I occasionally did a stupid thing, or sometimes multiple stupid things in some of these vids, but that was mostly because of boredom. I usually tend to beat him most of the time, even when he gives me a run for my money, so recently ive started trying some outland or just plain unpredictably stupid starts n plans just to see if they could be used to catch a person offguard....)
----------
Okay, Here are 2 matches of Marth (Me obviously) vs my friend's link. Most of these recorded matches, he actually was trying to get OFF of relying on grab so much, although it's started to creep back in so....I figure I'll ask here since it's important and I think it's seen at least once in one of these 4 link vids I have; Is there any known reason that when Im directly BEHIND Link and his grab goes out...it 'teleports' me to it? O.o
Me vs his link #1 (Vid #1)
---------------------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPgCosZfPrU (Part 1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AzVZ9ZW4tA (Part 2)
Me vs his link #2 (Vid #3)
--------------------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZhAHPTvFXQ (Part 1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJn31Cr8bxc (Part 2)
Me vs his sheik #1 (Vid #2)
--------------------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q43MksI08JQ (Part 1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Wd_6OSv0DU (Part 2)
(I occasionally did a stupid thing, or sometimes multiple stupid things in some of these vids, but that was mostly because of boredom. I usually tend to beat him most of the time, even when he gives me a run for my money, so recently ive started trying some outland or just plain unpredictably stupid starts n plans just to see if they could be used to catch a person offguard....)
Fortress | Sveet
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
niko i only had time to watch the first few stocks vs fox but i have a few tips
2Niko2
learn your uthrow combos a little better. know when you should start utilting and when you have to regrab. You can't utilt until DI away ~30% and ~35% with no DI (make sure to reverse utilt)
When they tech on a platform, make sure you space yourself correctly. You need to be able to cover all tech options with only turning utilts or fsmash. There was one or 2 times when he got on the platform and teched away and was just out of utilt range because you weren't centered.
other than that, i like your improvement
edit- OH YEA
a tip for everyone: fair is better than fsmash. its faster (even if you include jump frames, its 2 frames faster than fsmash), longer, safer, and combos. Any time you want to fsmash, try using fair then following up. You'll be glad.
2Niko2
learn your uthrow combos a little better. know when you should start utilting and when you have to regrab. You can't utilt until DI away ~30% and ~35% with no DI (make sure to reverse utilt)
When they tech on a platform, make sure you space yourself correctly. You need to be able to cover all tech options with only turning utilts or fsmash. There was one or 2 times when he got on the platform and teched away and was just out of utilt range because you weren't centered.
other than that, i like your improvement
edit- OH YEA
a tip for everyone: fair is better than fsmash. its faster (even if you include jump frames, its 2 frames faster than fsmash), longer, safer, and combos. Any time you want to fsmash, try using fair then following up. You'll be glad.
P. O. F.
Smash Ace
2Niko2
Fox:
Fox is arguably one of Marths most aggrivating match ups at this point in the meta game. No one really can blame you for hating it. It's stupid. If Fox U throws you he has so many options its stupid. He can jab to u smash for a kill, (What other character in the game can ****ing do that stupid ****?) u throw uair/bair BS, (Marth is one of the hardest characters to SDI that) shine you if you recover low or bair you if you recover high, run laps around you and get in on your sword, oh....and camp you by going pew pew to piss you off.
Anyway, this match up (I know its been said 43295230 times) really does boil down to the grab. If you get a grab, you need to make it count or at least make the Fox feel uncomfortable by punishing him hard. If you can't capitalize with u throws on platform crap you need to tech chase him and get him off the ledge. (make sure you follow with a dilt for extra gayness) You also need to make sure you edge guard. Ahhh its the most important thing in this match up aside from the grab. If you mess up an edge guard you can basically kiss your chances of winning goodbye and Fox will go up to a high % and you'll be screwed.
Basically watch out for grabs, get grabs, don't fail on capitalizing from the grab just like Fox does not, dont fail at edge guards. Remember that Fox is more afraid while recovering than you are of messing up.
Peach:
I used to hate this match up too. Don't worry man. lol. Peach is a piece of crap in the air. Get her in the air and make sure she never touches the ground. It doesn't matter if you do fairs to dairs, a series of u tilts, bairs tippered, etc. Just make sure you can keep her in the air. On the ground Peach will generally do one of two things. A-Pick up a turnip and try to throw it at you. B-Dash attack. CC her dash attack and grab her or dash attack cancel a dilt or dash attack to put her in a bad spot. (Tippering dash attack can sometimes be hard depending on your position so i like d tilt more.) Of course, dash attack pops her up but I think it's higher risk. When edge guarding her if you can get her below the stage you are in a good spot to get a stock. D tilt is amazing here and then following with an fsmash is nice. Also, I actually like jab to fsmash when Peach is directly in front of you on your level when recovering because if you connect with the jab most of the time peaches up b immediately and then you get the fsmash off. Yum. In terms of grabs do f throw all the time unless you are near the ledge of course. M2K likes to follow with Dash attack from mid to high percents to combo BS and I find that is very useful. Watch his set VS Armada at Genesis on FD. (the first match) If its early percents I usually try to the Fsmash after f throw and if that no longer works switch to fairs or dash attack depending on DI.
Hope this helps.
-POF
Edit:
Arc-I haven't had time to record. Lately I've been playing people I'm better than so I don't really want to record me winning. Won't help me as much. That, and I gotta look for a new car. :-/
Fox:
Fox is arguably one of Marths most aggrivating match ups at this point in the meta game. No one really can blame you for hating it. It's stupid. If Fox U throws you he has so many options its stupid. He can jab to u smash for a kill, (What other character in the game can ****ing do that stupid ****?) u throw uair/bair BS, (Marth is one of the hardest characters to SDI that) shine you if you recover low or bair you if you recover high, run laps around you and get in on your sword, oh....and camp you by going pew pew to piss you off.
Anyway, this match up (I know its been said 43295230 times) really does boil down to the grab. If you get a grab, you need to make it count or at least make the Fox feel uncomfortable by punishing him hard. If you can't capitalize with u throws on platform crap you need to tech chase him and get him off the ledge. (make sure you follow with a dilt for extra gayness) You also need to make sure you edge guard. Ahhh its the most important thing in this match up aside from the grab. If you mess up an edge guard you can basically kiss your chances of winning goodbye and Fox will go up to a high % and you'll be screwed.
Basically watch out for grabs, get grabs, don't fail on capitalizing from the grab just like Fox does not, dont fail at edge guards. Remember that Fox is more afraid while recovering than you are of messing up.
Peach:
I used to hate this match up too. Don't worry man. lol. Peach is a piece of crap in the air. Get her in the air and make sure she never touches the ground. It doesn't matter if you do fairs to dairs, a series of u tilts, bairs tippered, etc. Just make sure you can keep her in the air. On the ground Peach will generally do one of two things. A-Pick up a turnip and try to throw it at you. B-Dash attack. CC her dash attack and grab her or dash attack cancel a dilt or dash attack to put her in a bad spot. (Tippering dash attack can sometimes be hard depending on your position so i like d tilt more.) Of course, dash attack pops her up but I think it's higher risk. When edge guarding her if you can get her below the stage you are in a good spot to get a stock. D tilt is amazing here and then following with an fsmash is nice. Also, I actually like jab to fsmash when Peach is directly in front of you on your level when recovering because if you connect with the jab most of the time peaches up b immediately and then you get the fsmash off. Yum. In terms of grabs do f throw all the time unless you are near the ledge of course. M2K likes to follow with Dash attack from mid to high percents to combo BS and I find that is very useful. Watch his set VS Armada at Genesis on FD. (the first match) If its early percents I usually try to the Fsmash after f throw and if that no longer works switch to fairs or dash attack depending on DI.
Hope this helps.
-POF
Edit:
Arc-I haven't had time to record. Lately I've been playing people I'm better than so I don't really want to record me winning. Won't help me as much. That, and I gotta look for a new car. :-/
Niko45
Smash Master
Good **** guys. Sveet that is a really subtle yet huge thing to point out about the platform utilt spacing.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Niko, you probably already saw this post, but I'm going to quote myself on how I do the Peach match-up. I have some experience against DoH, Wife, and Voodoo (guy who used to live in SoCal and played HugS and Mango a lot).
Fthrow and uthrow are both good ways of setting up Peach. Fthrow can get you an fsmash, dash attack, or fair - but it's not guaranteed. Uthrow puts her in the air where she's extremely susceptible to getting sniped by fsmash, uair, fair or an utilt.
The Fox match-up is harder. Um, the biggest thing for me is recovery and edgeguarding. Recover tricky, but try to leave yourself options. If you plan on sweet spotting with your up-b, do a couple of side-b's to delay and to force Fox off the ledge, but make sure you space the side-b's far enough away that Fox can't simply bair you.
When edgeguarding Fox, you can usually follow the pattern of 1. intercept spacies illusion, 2. counter up-b, 3. run off the stage and fair/side-b/reverse up-b. Sometimes they'll DI the counter away and jump away to avoid getting gimped. When this happens, just space an fsmash or dtilt (or edgehog, if possible). It should be pretty easy to finish the stock from there.
Oh, Niko, don't forget CC -> grab. Fox isn't going to go for a grab everytime. Sometimes he'll dash attack, SH nair, FJ nair, FJ bair, etc. All of these can be CC grabbed reasonably easily. Just be sure to space yourself so that the move hits you but the follow-up shine will whiff, just in case your timing is behind a couple frames.
Countering turnips is pretty good. Just limit yourself to doing it when she approaches with her turnip (i.e., jumps, throws turnip, and floats toward you with fair). This is the ideal time to counter. Just don't overuse it, because it gets predictable. Don't forget that you can jump, shield, and run away from the turnip.
Fthrow and uthrow are both good ways of setting up Peach. Fthrow can get you an fsmash, dash attack, or fair - but it's not guaranteed. Uthrow puts her in the air where she's extremely susceptible to getting sniped by fsmash, uair, fair or an utilt.
The Fox match-up is harder. Um, the biggest thing for me is recovery and edgeguarding. Recover tricky, but try to leave yourself options. If you plan on sweet spotting with your up-b, do a couple of side-b's to delay and to force Fox off the ledge, but make sure you space the side-b's far enough away that Fox can't simply bair you.
When edgeguarding Fox, you can usually follow the pattern of 1. intercept spacies illusion, 2. counter up-b, 3. run off the stage and fair/side-b/reverse up-b. Sometimes they'll DI the counter away and jump away to avoid getting gimped. When this happens, just space an fsmash or dtilt (or edgehog, if possible). It should be pretty easy to finish the stock from there.
Oh, Niko, don't forget CC -> grab. Fox isn't going to go for a grab everytime. Sometimes he'll dash attack, SH nair, FJ nair, FJ bair, etc. All of these can be CC grabbed reasonably easily. Just be sure to space yourself so that the move hits you but the follow-up shine will whiff, just in case your timing is behind a couple frames.
Niko45
Smash Master
How viable is fsmash on stage vs peach? Can she dash attack you out of it if she shields?
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
If you hit her shield with a tipper, she can't punish. Anything less than that, though, and she can easily wavedash OOS and grab you even. Her dash attack comes out fast enough to work, too.
sonofashrub
Smash Apprentice
In my experience (which isn't a lot) nair as an approach works okay against peach. Dash attack does quite well, too. It's hard to approach her sometimes, because her dsmash makes the dtilt fairly risky. Don't think that you shouldn't use it though, just not as much. You can catch her turnips and use them against her to approach
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Oh, hi, Dee!
sonofashrub
Smash Apprentice
HEY IMPRESSIVEMANJOE!! Yeah, if you remember Max, he plays peach mainly, so I have a lot of experience playing his peach. I can't be sure how useful that experience is, as we're both rather scrubby.
Are you in CP for winter break? I wanna play smash.
Are you in CP for winter break? I wanna play smash.
Dart
Smash Lord
refcode-Tipsy1
i know i win in this one but i'd like to know what i'm doing wrong so i can get a more satisfactory win.
Me vs Anthony (Sheik) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow-GQtkaQKs
i've only played this pika so i wanna know exactly what advice you have against the character in general.
Me vs Samurai (Pikachu) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1dDKdSvJO8&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sC9qWRIe2Hk&feature=channel
Me vs Nude (Falcon) he isn't sandbagging as hard in this one, tell me what you think. i felt kind of sloppy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CdVqVQDKt8&feature=channel
Me vs Tomacawk (Falcon/Fox) he's pretty good he SD'd a helluva lot. oh and fox tips please. pun intended
i know i win in this one but i'd like to know what i'm doing wrong so i can get a more satisfactory win.
Me vs Anthony (Sheik) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow-GQtkaQKs
i've only played this pika so i wanna know exactly what advice you have against the character in general.
Me vs Samurai (Pikachu) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1dDKdSvJO8&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sC9qWRIe2Hk&feature=channel
Me vs Nude (Falcon) he isn't sandbagging as hard in this one, tell me what you think. i felt kind of sloppy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CdVqVQDKt8&feature=channel
Me vs Tomacawk (Falcon/Fox) he's pretty good he SD'd a helluva lot. oh and fox tips please. pun intended
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Eon the Wolf
Smash Ace
Could I get some critique, please? ^^;....(Also I have some comments in the original post, but took em out...)
BC AL
Smash Journeyman
Reference code: SpaciesSuck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PB0uJOx2rX4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZtJY531dss
critique please?
i learned i should CC fox's nair more....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PB0uJOx2rX4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZtJY531dss
critique please?
i learned i should CC fox's nair more....
Dart
Smash Lord
i'm just gonna quote my near week old post just in case you guys missed it >.>
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Ahhhh. Too many videos. I've already watched some of them, just so you guys know. I just haven't had time to write up a full critique yet. I'll get around to it when some of the other threads are less active.
Eon the Wolf
Smash Ace
x.x Well some of us HAVE been waiting awhile, and in my case me AND my friend are both waiting on my critique. I've been trying to convince him to register to get critique on either his link, his sheik, or both...
Niko45
Smash Master
ref: SpaciesSuck
Not bad at all.
Main things: Recovery/Ledge hopping, OOS, Approach
Recovery - EVERY Marth has to break the habit of wasting their side B's when they are not in danger. You need to realize that you can DI way better than you are right now. Even tho you are DIing almost (not all) hits, understand that you are not DIing at the right angle. Picture a clock. For survival DI you want to be DIing at the 11 or 1 on the joystick depending on which way you are getting hit. Your DI right now is at 10 and 2. Once you make this adjustment, edgeguarding you becomes nearly impossible. This means that any move with a decently elevated knockback trajectory (ex: spacies bair) should be allowing you to survive ON STAGE without using ANY side B's. Don't waste them. You get 3 very useful ones, so save them. They will help you to force him off the ledge while you hover or deter him from trying to come off and bair you.
OOS - You are shieldgrabbing way way too much and it's getting you killed. A tip in general - go back and scroll through vids of yourself and closely examine every time you are killed. Determine what killed you and how you can prevent that in the future. Against falco, you will see that more than once you are shield grabbing absolutely hopelessly (like, facing the wrong way) and he just fsmashes you to oblivion.
In general work on your OOS command to really take your movement and approach game to the next level. Vs. Falco you need to be able to Fair OOS crisply to defend against his approach. You can also WD back OOS if you have room behind you (recommended). Your WDs OOS are limited and choppy, but at least your doing it, that means its only a matter of time before you really implement it. In conjunction with this, it's really important to learn how to anticipate and time Falco's lasers as they come at you and hit your shield. This will open up tons of options for you and you won't even need those shield grabs you're dependent on now that you shouldn't even be getting.
Approach - Again, good command of movement OOS helps here because you can start approaching with shield. This is very good against spacies, particularly Falco, where you can run up and shield an incoming laser, then react appropriately to whatever spacing you've created. In general tho, I see you being decently patient but not baiting much. Work on Fair/Nair to instant dash away. This will help open up more DD grabs for you. Right now it looks like you're guessing he's going to full hop nair (with fox) and doing a pre-emptive full hop fair. Then in other situations you are just running around nairing kinda randomly, hoping to catch him (which also shouldn't be working, but is). Nair/Fair in place - dash backwards.
Couple of edgeguarding notes:
-I know it is seen so so commonly, but you shouldn't often be following up the counter with a drop down fair or reverse up B. Foxes will often fall so far away that all you need is a ledgehog (like the one where you kinda freaked out and got killed), which also means that if you fair them you are not going to be able to make it back. Camera zoom can make this tricky to judge. In general, after a counter I like to immediately get on the edge and see what they've done. You should also remember that if he DIs the counter up he can side B to the ledge (but NOT the stage), so committing to going off stage is risky. Get on the ledge and ledgehog or come off with bair. If he tries to up B from directly below you, ledgehop dair OR justs ledgehop and counter again to see what he does. You can try to fair him into the stage, but if he techs it your edgeguard is blown.
Not bad at all.
Main things: Recovery/Ledge hopping, OOS, Approach
Recovery - EVERY Marth has to break the habit of wasting their side B's when they are not in danger. You need to realize that you can DI way better than you are right now. Even tho you are DIing almost (not all) hits, understand that you are not DIing at the right angle. Picture a clock. For survival DI you want to be DIing at the 11 or 1 on the joystick depending on which way you are getting hit. Your DI right now is at 10 and 2. Once you make this adjustment, edgeguarding you becomes nearly impossible. This means that any move with a decently elevated knockback trajectory (ex: spacies bair) should be allowing you to survive ON STAGE without using ANY side B's. Don't waste them. You get 3 very useful ones, so save them. They will help you to force him off the ledge while you hover or deter him from trying to come off and bair you.
OOS - You are shieldgrabbing way way too much and it's getting you killed. A tip in general - go back and scroll through vids of yourself and closely examine every time you are killed. Determine what killed you and how you can prevent that in the future. Against falco, you will see that more than once you are shield grabbing absolutely hopelessly (like, facing the wrong way) and he just fsmashes you to oblivion.
In general work on your OOS command to really take your movement and approach game to the next level. Vs. Falco you need to be able to Fair OOS crisply to defend against his approach. You can also WD back OOS if you have room behind you (recommended). Your WDs OOS are limited and choppy, but at least your doing it, that means its only a matter of time before you really implement it. In conjunction with this, it's really important to learn how to anticipate and time Falco's lasers as they come at you and hit your shield. This will open up tons of options for you and you won't even need those shield grabs you're dependent on now that you shouldn't even be getting.
Approach - Again, good command of movement OOS helps here because you can start approaching with shield. This is very good against spacies, particularly Falco, where you can run up and shield an incoming laser, then react appropriately to whatever spacing you've created. In general tho, I see you being decently patient but not baiting much. Work on Fair/Nair to instant dash away. This will help open up more DD grabs for you. Right now it looks like you're guessing he's going to full hop nair (with fox) and doing a pre-emptive full hop fair. Then in other situations you are just running around nairing kinda randomly, hoping to catch him (which also shouldn't be working, but is). Nair/Fair in place - dash backwards.
Couple of edgeguarding notes:
-I know it is seen so so commonly, but you shouldn't often be following up the counter with a drop down fair or reverse up B. Foxes will often fall so far away that all you need is a ledgehog (like the one where you kinda freaked out and got killed), which also means that if you fair them you are not going to be able to make it back. Camera zoom can make this tricky to judge. In general, after a counter I like to immediately get on the edge and see what they've done. You should also remember that if he DIs the counter up he can side B to the ledge (but NOT the stage), so committing to going off stage is risky. Get on the ledge and ledgehog or come off with bair. If he tries to up B from directly below you, ledgehop dair OR justs ledgehop and counter again to see what he does. You can try to fair him into the stage, but if he techs it your edgeguard is blown.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Tipsy1. I watched all of your matches (except the ones with Tomacawk; you didn't post the links).
Your Marth is interesting. Very calm and yet you're good about not getting hit and making the most from your grabs. I'll go through and point out some notable things in your game with Anthony's Sheik.
0:08 - You tried to fair -> grab his shield. Didn't work cos he jumped over your grab. It was a good idea and would have gotten you more, but utilt would have hit and gotten you some juggle damage. You had no way of knowing what he'd do, though. For all you know he could have rolled behind you and JC grabbed you if you had tried to utilt his shield. Just something to think about.
0:11 - He dthrew you. You DI'ed his follow-up ftilt away and tried to fair out of any subsequent hit. Pretty good idea. I don't know what your DI on the dthrow was, but I find that down and away works well - she can't CG you and she'll only be able to follow it up with ftilt, which you can again DI away and usually get out by then.
0:14 You utilted him onto a platform and then FJ faired. This is a classic example of a high risk medium reward scenario. While, if your fair had connected, you had a chance to score another fair or an fsmash from the platform afterward and get Sheik offstage, she was at low percents and probably wouldn't have gotten gimped. On the other hand, you're throwing away the positional advantage you have. Sheik's on the platform above you. You're Marth. She already has a dilemma of getting down from the platform to solid ground, and you can keep her above you with uairs and utilts. You might have been better off just SH uairing. He ended up jumping up and hitting you with a dair, which netted him a fair and got you offstage. So you can see how there was a high risk to going up on the platform.
0:18 - You are on the ledge and ledgehop fair. He reacts with a dash attack which connects. Ledgehop fair is okay. You can always stall until he moves away from the ledge enough to ensure your safe return to the stage. But in any case make a mental note of how he punished you. Maybe ledge hop shield next time. ^_^
0:21 - You uair him onto the platform. Again, you try FJ aerial - uair this time. I don't know what your purpose was. I guess a standard uair to nair combo which wouldn't have gotten you an offstage even, I don't think. He jumps over you and bairs. Okay so you got punished for FJing again. Think SH uair instead of FJ, alway in a he-on-platform-you-below situation. Think "safe moves that keep him above me and me on the ground". If he tries to descend with an aerial, you simply dash dance grab him as he lands and uthrow to get him in the air again.
0:26 - you fair and he techs. You mistime the tech chase fsmash. He ftilt fairs you. Maybe you assumed he was going to miss the tech. Maybe you simply mess the timing. But missing fsmashes in this match-up gets Marth punished like no tomorrow. If you're ever uncertain that your fsmash will hit, just substitute a dtilt instead, because it has 28 less frames of lag. That's half a second. 0_0
0:34 - Pay attention to how he edgeguards you. He ledgehopped. That should be your cue to sweetspot. Instead you landed on the stage and got ftilt faired and died. x_x
0:46 - Third time you try to jump up and fair him on the platform. He jumps up and hits you again. At this point you should be thinking double jump fair / uair / nair, since he always jumps above me.
0:57 - He dash attacks your shield and you dair out of shield. Maybe you were hoping for a dair -> fsmash combo, but it didn't work. Probably should have just shield grabbed -> fthrow -> wavedash back -> fsmash his tech in.
1:00 - You waited for the side step. Bravo! It ends up getting you an fsmash for the kill. Remember that.
1:13 - You fthrow him offstage, he double jump fairs. Great opportunity to dtilt. Instead you whiff an fsmash. Oh well. He grabs the edge and you get hit by his ledgehop fair at low percents. Sheiks who ledgehop fair sometimes don't realize that you can CC fsmash / dtilt them back offstage. Try that once in a while.
1:31 - You roll away from his pressure and then nair in place. He dash attacks to follow your roll. The dash attack whiffs. Your nair goes over his head and you get ftilt -> faired. Instead of nairing, next time maybe dash dance away from him after your roll. He seems to like to follow you with dash attacks, which makes a dash dance grab ideal.
1:45 - Good tech chasing. You got him off the stage. 1:53 - You punish his poor recover with fsmash and take the edge. He up-b's onto the stage and you ledgehop dair. In this scenario, you always want to keep the pressure on. I like wavedashing onto the stage past where Sheik lands and fsmashing her off again.
1:57 - Sheik spot dodges your fsmash and dsmashes you for the kill. I know it hurts sometimes, but you have to wait for the spotdodge. Sheik players love that spotdodge to grab / dsmash / ftilt. Just be patient and fsmash after they commit to it.
2:24 good stuff, waiting for the airdodge. Got you the kill.
2:33 - Sheik spotdodges you fsmash and ftilts you. It makes sense to fsmash at low percents, because you can sometimes set up for a gimp that way. But at least mindgame it. Don't randomly fsmash. Try to read their roll or tech or something.
2:37 - Sheik puts herself on the platform. You dash dance and Sheik drops through with a nair. It hits you.
This shouldn't happen. Just abuse Marth's grab range and JC grab her during her landing frames.
2:45 - You ledgehop fair. Then you roll. I guess you're expecting to get dash attacked like earlier. Instead, he waits for your roll and jab -> ftilt -> fairs you. Make a mental note that he read your roll behind him.
2:57 - You ledgehop fair again. Then you roll! Um ... you get dsmashed. Yea.
3:03 - you wait for the airdodge and connect an fsmash. Then you wait on the stage. He sweetspots the edge with his up-b. Whenever Sheik is forced to up-b, you want to take the ledge option away from her. So go grab that edge.
3:23 - okay you wait for the spotdodge and fair. Good stuff.
3:32- you wait for the airdodge again. Gets you a kill. I guess you can read his mind.
3:45 - You try to get a tech chase going. You should avoid wavedashing while tech chasing grabs. It messes up your dash momentum, as you can see happened.
4:00 - You assumed he was going to roll behind you and utilted. It got you grabbed. Next time, wait for him to do it.
4:20 - He up-b'ed onto the platform and you whiffed an fsmash. Dreamland platforms are high. Bair is probably a better idea.
4:26-4:30 you got hit by two dairs. Just CC fsmash them.
Yea and you finished it with a nair.
I don't know. Look for little stuff to improve in your game. Things like controlling platorms better or waiting for spotdodges / air dodges.
I would say the biggest improvement you could make is to dash dance camp more, especially if that Sheik isn't needle camping you.
Eon - I'll get to your videos when I have a chance. Sorry to put it off so long.
Your Marth is interesting. Very calm and yet you're good about not getting hit and making the most from your grabs. I'll go through and point out some notable things in your game with Anthony's Sheik.
0:08 - You tried to fair -> grab his shield. Didn't work cos he jumped over your grab. It was a good idea and would have gotten you more, but utilt would have hit and gotten you some juggle damage. You had no way of knowing what he'd do, though. For all you know he could have rolled behind you and JC grabbed you if you had tried to utilt his shield. Just something to think about.
0:11 - He dthrew you. You DI'ed his follow-up ftilt away and tried to fair out of any subsequent hit. Pretty good idea. I don't know what your DI on the dthrow was, but I find that down and away works well - she can't CG you and she'll only be able to follow it up with ftilt, which you can again DI away and usually get out by then.
0:14 You utilted him onto a platform and then FJ faired. This is a classic example of a high risk medium reward scenario. While, if your fair had connected, you had a chance to score another fair or an fsmash from the platform afterward and get Sheik offstage, she was at low percents and probably wouldn't have gotten gimped. On the other hand, you're throwing away the positional advantage you have. Sheik's on the platform above you. You're Marth. She already has a dilemma of getting down from the platform to solid ground, and you can keep her above you with uairs and utilts. You might have been better off just SH uairing. He ended up jumping up and hitting you with a dair, which netted him a fair and got you offstage. So you can see how there was a high risk to going up on the platform.
0:18 - You are on the ledge and ledgehop fair. He reacts with a dash attack which connects. Ledgehop fair is okay. You can always stall until he moves away from the ledge enough to ensure your safe return to the stage. But in any case make a mental note of how he punished you. Maybe ledge hop shield next time. ^_^
0:21 - You uair him onto the platform. Again, you try FJ aerial - uair this time. I don't know what your purpose was. I guess a standard uair to nair combo which wouldn't have gotten you an offstage even, I don't think. He jumps over you and bairs. Okay so you got punished for FJing again. Think SH uair instead of FJ, alway in a he-on-platform-you-below situation. Think "safe moves that keep him above me and me on the ground". If he tries to descend with an aerial, you simply dash dance grab him as he lands and uthrow to get him in the air again.
0:26 - you fair and he techs. You mistime the tech chase fsmash. He ftilt fairs you. Maybe you assumed he was going to miss the tech. Maybe you simply mess the timing. But missing fsmashes in this match-up gets Marth punished like no tomorrow. If you're ever uncertain that your fsmash will hit, just substitute a dtilt instead, because it has 28 less frames of lag. That's half a second. 0_0
0:34 - Pay attention to how he edgeguards you. He ledgehopped. That should be your cue to sweetspot. Instead you landed on the stage and got ftilt faired and died. x_x
0:46 - Third time you try to jump up and fair him on the platform. He jumps up and hits you again. At this point you should be thinking double jump fair / uair / nair, since he always jumps above me.
0:57 - He dash attacks your shield and you dair out of shield. Maybe you were hoping for a dair -> fsmash combo, but it didn't work. Probably should have just shield grabbed -> fthrow -> wavedash back -> fsmash his tech in.
1:00 - You waited for the side step. Bravo! It ends up getting you an fsmash for the kill. Remember that.
1:13 - You fthrow him offstage, he double jump fairs. Great opportunity to dtilt. Instead you whiff an fsmash. Oh well. He grabs the edge and you get hit by his ledgehop fair at low percents. Sheiks who ledgehop fair sometimes don't realize that you can CC fsmash / dtilt them back offstage. Try that once in a while.
1:31 - You roll away from his pressure and then nair in place. He dash attacks to follow your roll. The dash attack whiffs. Your nair goes over his head and you get ftilt -> faired. Instead of nairing, next time maybe dash dance away from him after your roll. He seems to like to follow you with dash attacks, which makes a dash dance grab ideal.
1:45 - Good tech chasing. You got him off the stage. 1:53 - You punish his poor recover with fsmash and take the edge. He up-b's onto the stage and you ledgehop dair. In this scenario, you always want to keep the pressure on. I like wavedashing onto the stage past where Sheik lands and fsmashing her off again.
1:57 - Sheik spot dodges your fsmash and dsmashes you for the kill. I know it hurts sometimes, but you have to wait for the spotdodge. Sheik players love that spotdodge to grab / dsmash / ftilt. Just be patient and fsmash after they commit to it.
2:24 good stuff, waiting for the airdodge. Got you the kill.
2:33 - Sheik spotdodges you fsmash and ftilts you. It makes sense to fsmash at low percents, because you can sometimes set up for a gimp that way. But at least mindgame it. Don't randomly fsmash. Try to read their roll or tech or something.
2:37 - Sheik puts herself on the platform. You dash dance and Sheik drops through with a nair. It hits you.
This shouldn't happen. Just abuse Marth's grab range and JC grab her during her landing frames.
2:45 - You ledgehop fair. Then you roll. I guess you're expecting to get dash attacked like earlier. Instead, he waits for your roll and jab -> ftilt -> fairs you. Make a mental note that he read your roll behind him.
2:57 - You ledgehop fair again. Then you roll! Um ... you get dsmashed. Yea.
3:03 - you wait for the airdodge and connect an fsmash. Then you wait on the stage. He sweetspots the edge with his up-b. Whenever Sheik is forced to up-b, you want to take the ledge option away from her. So go grab that edge.
3:23 - okay you wait for the spotdodge and fair. Good stuff.
3:32- you wait for the airdodge again. Gets you a kill. I guess you can read his mind.
3:45 - You try to get a tech chase going. You should avoid wavedashing while tech chasing grabs. It messes up your dash momentum, as you can see happened.
4:00 - You assumed he was going to roll behind you and utilted. It got you grabbed. Next time, wait for him to do it.
4:20 - He up-b'ed onto the platform and you whiffed an fsmash. Dreamland platforms are high. Bair is probably a better idea.
4:26-4:30 you got hit by two dairs. Just CC fsmash them.
Yea and you finished it with a nair.
I don't know. Look for little stuff to improve in your game. Things like controlling platorms better or waiting for spotdodges / air dodges.
I would say the biggest improvement you could make is to dash dance camp more, especially if that Sheik isn't needle camping you.
Eon - I'll get to your videos when I have a chance. Sorry to put it off so long.
Eon the Wolf
Smash Ace
Well, so long as I get some. I have definitely improved, and he has developed annoyingly gay combo of the different utilts, ftilts, and dtilts, and annoying *** fair follow ups.. Keep in mind there are a few times in my videos where I'll do a dair instead of an fair. I think it's partly my controller and possibly a lil to do with how I flick the cstick to get a fair but....Essentially, i DO kinda need a new one, and I AM looking into that. But alas, not much i can do atm.
Also, if it isn't too much trouble...What's the best way to regain control after being hit and sent into that tumbling in mid air state? I've read that wobbling or w/e (moving the analog back n forth fast) is the best way but....is that really best? is there another way, or a faster way, or something else to speed it up? Im sorry for not askin it in the qa, but there's a lot of times I feel I would've survived or turned around if only I had started the 'flip' to regain control half a second earlier :/...
Also, if it isn't too much trouble...What's the best way to regain control after being hit and sent into that tumbling in mid air state? I've read that wobbling or w/e (moving the analog back n forth fast) is the best way but....is that really best? is there another way, or a faster way, or something else to speed it up? Im sorry for not askin it in the qa, but there's a lot of times I feel I would've survived or turned around if only I had started the 'flip' to regain control half a second earlier :/...
P. O. F.
Smash Ace
I won't be looking at any of these matches until after pound guys. I have other things im doin in prep for Pound 4. Sorry I can't be off assistance now.
Fortress | Sveet
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I'm not going to pound so if you ask me really nicely i'll critique stuff...
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Don't give him what he wants! Don't do it!
Eon the Wolf
Smash Ace
*smacks Chival with a newspaper* Bad boy! Go back to making excuses for yourself! 
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I would be delighted, Sveet. I really want some critique x.x
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I would be delighted, Sveet. I really want some critique x.x
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Sveet likes men talking smooth to him.
Eon the Wolf
Smash Ace
Cool. First person to guess correctly that I'm a guy. Congrats Chival, you get a free week supply of BTTH flavored ice-cream. Where shall I send this special, limited time flavor?
unrelated note: I might be up through a few hours, or I might not. We shall see....Im gonna try to get SOME rest....not too much...more than 4-6 hours of sleep n I can't wake up easily or without drowsiness...and I have my last 2 finals left x.x...So if you want, just post away if anyone gets critique for me ASAP....plus Ill have 2 hours inbetween my finals, so I might sneak up to the library or the school library to browse smashboards or play some steam....I might stay in mah school though xD...I have been eager to see if I can get steam working on it....
unrelated note: I might be up through a few hours, or I might not. We shall see....Im gonna try to get SOME rest....not too much...more than 4-6 hours of sleep n I can't wake up easily or without drowsiness...and I have my last 2 finals left x.x...So if you want, just post away if anyone gets critique for me ASAP....plus Ill have 2 hours inbetween my finals, so I might sneak up to the library or the school library to browse smashboards or play some steam....I might stay in mah school though xD...I have been eager to see if I can get steam working on it....
Fortress | Sveet
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Well i prefer smooth talking from females, but i'll take what i can get.
Playing LoZ: Spirit Tracks right now, so i'll post a critique when i feel like taking a break
Playing LoZ: Spirit Tracks right now, so i'll post a critique when i feel like taking a break
Eon the Wolf
Smash Ace
^
That's a true(or truly desperate) man's response.
And take that break dammit! I'm watching A&E's Psychic Kids out of boredom, n after that ill be doing....nothing... :/....Tryin to cut down on the late night melee practice lol. Good thing is, after today...I have thursday, friday, saturday, sunday, and monday off :3. 5 day weekends ftw.
EDIT: Screw it. Im getting melee now lol....ill have to bring down my GC though x.x
That's a true(or truly desperate) man's response.
And take that break dammit! I'm watching A&E's Psychic Kids out of boredom, n after that ill be doing....nothing... :/....Tryin to cut down on the late night melee practice lol. Good thing is, after today...I have thursday, friday, saturday, sunday, and monday off :3. 5 day weekends ftw.
EDIT: Screw it. Im getting melee now lol....ill have to bring down my GC though x.x
Fortress | Sveet
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well im just in the first temple... i'll do my crit when i finish it.
[/food break]
[/food break]
Eon the Wolf
Smash Ace
RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH That could take 3 hours!! D:. I might stay up all night. Im half tempted to finally try coffee....Or maybe I'll just try n snort the coffee beans >.>
Fortress | Sveet
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nah the temples are pretty easy... about to enter the boss battle. expect the crit soon-ish
Eon the Wolf
Smash Ace
I swear; He's TAUNTING me x.x