Q&A "Everyone Look At Me!" The Marth Video Critique Thread.

[P. O. F.]

My post was directed at Elven, not you POF. I don't know how you got involved in all of this, my beef is not with you.

And for the record, I'm in the same boat financially, I've only gone out to like 4 -5 tournies this year. But, I still try to go out and play with people who are more **** than me. School/work **** my time too, so I feel you're pain. I've gotten a lot better since the summer, go down to Wes's place sometime and we'll play then.

I can even give you Doc advice so you can update your thread with legit information on how to fight him instead of "Try and get grabs, uthrow is really good" LOLLLL.

Oh, okay. (sigh of relif, I got enough crap from CT. lol)

Yeah, I pretty much do the same. I play with local people and whomever when I get the chance but I don't really have the ability to pitch a whole day for a tournament and miss a shift of work which is usually close to $150.00. Let me know next time you are heading down there and i'll try and stop by.

Bah, you're not even supposed to grab Doc that much in that match up because he excels at close range while Marth struggles deeply. I use nair to cover rolls, fairs for the obvious and d tilt to outspace and edge guard due to how horrible is recovery already is. Other than Dogysamich I haven't really talked to any Doc mains or really thought much about the match up.

It's really pathetic I know but I just learned how to play Peach. I NEVER play any Peach players. Yes, I know I could play Cort but him and I aren't really on A+ terms.

I'm definitely going to upload a couple of vids in a week or so. Depends on when or if I get some time.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Wow you guys are uptight @_@ Um, I take it back if it makes you feel better, I just didn't see him do anything out of grab the first game and saw him missed a smash out of grab. Which means most of his damage and kills were from random smashes.

And I really don't troll Smashboards, I try to make all of my posts productive and informative. I don't know J-Flo, nor do I watch his videos, I just saw him not do very well in that match and I said so.

 

[Cosmo!]

elven where are you from btw?

 

[elvenarrow3000]

I'm in the Bay Area at the moment.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Did you edit that post elven? I remember reading "I'm the best in the bay area at the moment"...


anywho some more vids here

ref code: smis

Sveet (marth) vs LoOshKiN (ganon)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfUiYQ0Gaik
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqY3kuEjwwQ

ref code: slmit

Sveet (marth) & Bzoo (fox/falcon) vs LoOshKiN (falco/ganon) & Ryan (peach)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nk44OqhT3mA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xB3xbqM6Fbw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaDUoia2jis


BONUS: Sveet can do comebacks in teams http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLwGpkkzq0o

 

[Heart Break Kid]

Rom2 Teams Vids

ref code: RapingPOFinmarthdittoes

HBK/Hazz vs Cactuar/Hbox

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2bgsl9BuwE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4NRpWepKDk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ1qjxisf-g&feature=related

ref code: mkds

HBK/Hazz vs KK/Europhoria

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dElTLbcPSA4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8TC5iiDcl4&feature=related

 

[elvenarrow3000]

No. It shows you if someone's edited their post.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

no you can quick edit.

try it

make a post then edit it within a minute.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Test edit blah?

EDIT: Test two!

...Scumfever, why do you know this stuff?

 

[DtJ Jungle]

hahaha that was something i figured out on accident

 

[KirbyKaze]

ref code: mkds

HBK/Hazz vs KK/Europhoria

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dElTLbcPSA4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8TC5iiDcl4&feature=related

Blast you HBK



At Pound you shall feel my wrath!

...in singles.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

yea i knew that too, cause 95% of my posts i edit within the first minute. thats why i asked if you edited.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Wow. Fail fail fail to those who didn't know about quick editing.

 

[P. O. F.]

smis

I watched your second video and there were a lot of things I was impressed with and a lot of things that made cringe.

First off, your spacing is very good (minus dairs) and your combo ability and creativity are exceptional in terms w edge guards. Your approaches are pretty bad though and you're getting lucky with your nairs. Don't camp Ganon as far away as you are. You're literally running around trying to bait Ganon to do something...and then ****** it. Not all Ganons will let you do this and will then out space you and make you pay for trying to camp him. Keep in mind that Ganon can outspace will you and will do so if you give him enough room. Don't be too far away from Ganon but keep your distance. For edge guards look for d tilt and dair the most because it is sooooooo easy to intercept.

Work on your dairs too. The attempt made me cry. I'm not kidding.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

i'm usually a LOTTTTTTTTTT better with my dairs... i was floating in the clouds at the time, if you know what i mean.

how should i keep close to him? i cant punish OoS really, and all of his air moves beat mine.

 

[Loto]

i'm usually a LOTTTTTTTTTT better with my dairs... i was floating in the clouds at the time, if you know what i mean.

how should i keep close to him? i cant punish OoS really, and all of his air moves beat mine.

Stay close as he says and bait his aerials. It's not hard to punish Ganon once he's missed usually. This is why you don't want a huge distance but you don't wanna be too close either. Just try to stay out of reach of fair and you should be nice. Your fair can also beat ganon fair if you stay close enough and know when its coming. Be careful though a lot of smart ganon's will also bait into CC'ing your aerials and such.

 

[P. O. F.]

how should i keep close to him? i cant punish OoS really, and all of his air moves beat mine.

The problem with Ganon is that most of his moves comes out really slow. This match up is alllllllll about spacing. Whoever spaces better, wins. Nothing else to it. You want to be just outside his fair/bair range. Tippering in this match at early percents is EXTREMELY crucial. You can nair or whatever while you're comboing Ganon but as an approach.....When do we Marths EVER approach with nair? ....nonetheless approach at all? lol.

Your fair can also beat ganon fair

I see what you did there.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

actually, ganon's best moves aren't too slow. uair comes out frame 6 (thats the front hitbox) and bair hits on 10. to put it in perspective, marth's utilt hits on frame 6 and fsmash hits on frame 10.

anyways, i think i know what to do.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

^^^ this. ganon's moves arent slow. they have alot of cool down though iirc so you have to bait them do to something.

 

[P. O. F.]

Just came back from a tourney today. Umm I'll post the horrible MM that I played and how badly I got *****...and then the one match I won/demanded after the MM.

I won that, figures. Arguably the worst set i've ever played in my life.

 

[I.B]

Got some matches recorded from a tournament this past weekend, and I'd like some criticism please.

vs. Raynex
Match 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmB_QckRBXM
Match 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyuJR0Dk_bk

vs. Unknown522
Match 1&2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onFZulZymis
Match 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n84YPtA3iSM

ref code: IBeeNeedsHoney

 

[KirbyKaze]

IB really does need honey

We should have recorded our set.

 

[I.B]

Yea we should've

 

[P. O. F.]

ibeeneedshoney

I'm studying for finals ahhhhh

but i watched the first match.

Your on stage game is very impressive. Ummm definitely better than mine. :/ lol.

Your edge guarding, CGing, and recovery need a little bit of work. Not saying you don't know how to any of the following...but I definitely noticed some flaws.

Your Recovery-You're jumping into RayNex wayyyyy too early when he has the upper hand on the ledge. Keep your eye on him the ENTIRE time you are recovering and try to see what hes planning. I always recover low VS Fox because he can either shine you or do some crappy bair BS to you...which RayNex pulled off on you a few times in this match. If hes facing forward....expect a shine, f tilt, or something horizontally stupid like dash attack into d smash or some balogni. If hes facing the opposite direction....bairs. Basically, dont approach the stage when you are above Fox and recovering. It's a bad idea. I used to get ***** by this alll the time. In fact, sometimes i'm stupid and still get ***** by it....not going to lie.

Cging-I noticed that you f smashed wayyy to early like at 39% the first time and the second session you missed the u tilt to regrab and then you tried to fsmash at atound high 70's after an improperly spaced uair. I may have that out of order but I definitely saw that stuff. lol. High 50's to high 60's do fsmash. (at 2:18 you did just that....pretty...eh? ) Anything from low-mid 70's above Nair is much more reliable IMO. You can try to do the u air to fsmash or the chain of uair BS to fair crap......shown here.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM4oY_MV2Zo <3 Cort. LOL. But thats a bit risky. I like to keep CGing as simple as possible. Getting fancy and looking all cool just gets you ***** in the long run.

Why did you jump off stage after the counter? You weren't on your last stock with a lead and an fsmash on stage would have been a good 5X safer. After you messed up your fair and you clipped him with your upB an fsmash worked. Pure evidence an fsmash was safer in the first place. I only do off stage stuff VS Falco when hes below the stage and Fox if its a scrub Fox or its last stock. Nevermind, i do off stage stuff VS scrubs all the time.....

I do like your Marth though. I read in Cactuars thread a while ago a guide/post you made to fighting peach. Yes, I know I should **** the match up but there arent many peaches near me so I just...never play it. Got used to it and learned it though. Just camp fair, f throw to dash attack to stuff. mad easy.


When Mogwai posts our MM I will sadly upload it so you guys can see how badly I got *****. It was stupid though....after our MM I challenged him to one more game and beat him. I cried inside because I choked soooo hard.

 

[Niko45]

IB ur only noticeable flaw is recovery. Try to perfect DI so you don't need side B's at all for actual distance and can just use them for hesitations messing up their edge guards. Save the jump and hover in that very thin line of space where you could hit a fox who just sits on the edge but he can't come off the edge and hit you without taking a serious gamble. Then with side B's you force him to commit to something (most likely getting off the ledge or resetting himself on the ledge) and then you recover appropriately. I'm sure you know all that since ur very good, just saying the recovery is the only noticeable area where you could improve a lot.

 

[I.B]

Thanks guys. I tend to get nervous and play really stupid against Raynex and co. I'll apply all this advice as well as I can.

Still open to more criticism though

 

[KirbyKaze]

Stop being nervous you silly goose.

 

[Metal Reeper]

Alright let's try this.
Im sorry, don't have a capture card, the quality isn't the best, but it's not the worst, please don't pay attention to any stupid crap that we might've said lol.

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QORae88_SnQ
Me vs my lil brother, he's pretty good for 12.

2.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09xLvNNB_e0
Me vs lil bro's friend. he's not the best, so i can understand negative comments, I just really like my DI at the end

Refrence: QDLRZ

 

[ChivalRuse]

That was pretty good DI.

 

[P. O. F.]

QDLRZ

You're not U throwing. Do it.

Stop throwing out fsmashes immediately after throws praying he'll tech into it. Wait for him to do an action while hes on the ground and THEN do something (preferably regrab)

You're approaching too much. Don't approach. Wait for your friend to do something dumb...then go **** it.

When Fox upB's....counter it, f tilt, or fsmash. Nothing else.

I didn't see enough fairs.

I didn't see enough grabs. :-/

When Fox is near the ledge and you grab him throw him off and follow with d tilt to put him in a bad situation where hes forced to upB. Then things get fun from here.


Next time someone who is playing Fox says Marth is stupid look at them and say, "You should probably stop talking since you're good on every stage in the game, you have no bad match ups and you're god tier." They'll stop talking. I really find it funny when god tiers complain.

I'll look at the other one later and elaborate/be more friendly. FINALLLLSSSS!!!!! AHH! I hate school.

 

[ChivalRuse]

When Fox upB's....counter it, f tilt, or fsmash. Nothing else.

Dtilt ... shield breaker ... reverse up-b ... run off fair ... ledge hopped bair ...

...

 

[P. O. F.]

Dtilt ... shield breaker ... reverse up-b ... run off fair ... ledge hopped bair ...

...

Shield Breaker is a good option but its not better than an fsmash seeing as the knockback is bad opposed to fsmash unless its charged nicely. SB is good if a character is coming from above and they are trying to clear your sword or they think you will release early.

Reverse up B is safest followed from a counter IMO.

Run off fair is a good option but unless the Fox is extremely low you're going to have to hit him again with something else. I like this on Yoshis.

From the initial edge guard you should not be ledge hop bairing or dairing....It might WORK...but its not the best course of action.

I don't know man, I just think that fsmash, f tilt, and counter are the three safest and best options.

d tilting a fire fox IMO is a waste of time because if they aren't going to sweet spot you put them in a tougher situation by either fsmashing or countering. I personally think d tilt is one of Marths worst edge guards VS spacies. Jab is so much better and covers your whole body as opposed to just your feet. D tilt has higher risk and about the same reward imo.

Plus, judging by his opponent I think keeping it simple is the best way to go. I always tell people to keep your game simple and just get the win and then when you get a good grasp of what to do, create from there. Just my 50 cents. (shrug)

 

[ChivalRuse]

When I said run off fair and ledgehopped bair (etc.), I didn't mean as initial edeguards. But you essentially said "only edgeguard Fox's up-b with counter, ftilt and fsmash". I just wanted to point out that there are other alternatives that can be more effective in certain situations.

 

[otg]

How is charging shieldbreaker bad for fox's upb? It ***** fox's upb.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Exactly!

There's a time and place for everything. I don't think stating a list of three moves that eclipses all other moves always can be a very accurate assessment of Marth's edgeguarding options.

 

[otg]

Hell, if I had to choose between ONLY 3 moves for stopping firefox it would probably be like:

Shieldbreaker, dtilt, bair. Counter only for when they are coming from below the ledge, and most of the time, they will probably be coming in from above if they have good DI, so those 3 are better.

 

[P. O. F.]

When I said run off fair and ledgehopped bair (etc.), I didn't mean as initial edeguards. But you essentially said "only edgeguard Fox's up-b with counter, ftilt and fsmash". I just wanted to point out that there are other alternatives that can be more effective in certain situations.

Yes, indeed. Perhaps I worded that wrong. I simply meant that he should stick to those three. Maybe that makes more sense via text?

How is charging shieldbreaker bad for fox's upb? It ***** fox's upb.

That's not what I meant. I simply meant that fsmash and counter are better options. I only use SB if I KNOW they are going to take a long time to recover and i've got the time to do it.

There's a time and place for everything.

This.

 

[otg]

I dunno, I def feel that while fsmash is really good, shieldbreaker is safer.

 

[P. O. F.]

When Marth edge guards a good 85% of the time he wants to be a tippers length away from the ledge so he can avoid most get up attacks, get up to grabs, have more time to react ledge hop laser happy Falcos, avoid getting hit by Marths upB in dittos and tipper fsmash him, (Marth can't sweetspot the ledge in Marth dittos technically) and so much more.

If you execute a SB unless it is fully charged or close to a full charge the knock back will not be as great and basically reset your edge guard or drozpone option faster than you normally would need to if you chose Fsmash.

 

[P. O. F.]

**** i had a responding post but my computer decided to be a butt

I'll recap it quickly:
EDIT: WTF? It ended up showing up? My computer is fail.