Q&A "Everyone Look At Me!" The Marth Video Critique Thread.

[Archangel]

I also 2-stocked you pretty solidly at Beast 2, as I recall.

I don't think Marth/Samus is as bad as some people make it out to be. The way I see it, Marth has an easy time getting Samus up to 100%, but after that he has a lot of trouble KOing her. Samus has some pretty decent combos on Marth and actually KOs him fairly easily.

I think it's 55:45 in Marth's advantage or something like that.

I think some Marth mains have a tendency to believe Marth can just shut down a bunch of mid and low tiers with his range when in reality, it's not too hard to get close to Marth.

I agree. I think Marth vs most mid-low tiers is actually 55-45. He'g got a **** load of those imo. Then a few 60-40s and some 70-30s against bad characters. Marth can shut down some options but his lack of projectiles and sometimes laggy moves will leave enough chances for him to get hit/grabbed and then abused.

 

[Metal Reeper]

**** this character. Lets all go Falco at Apex.

10legits

 

[PolishSmash]

Hey can anyone clarify something for me because I'm a little confused. So I'm practicing L cancelling. In order to know whether I L canceled I do a Fsmash right after I SHFF a Fair. I notice that when I Fair WITHOUT hitting someone I don't have to L cancel in order to get the Fsmash out right away. But then I try to hit a CPU (without the L cancel) and sometimes I can and sometimes I can't Fsmash right away after hitting them. Now I'm confused :/ (And the CPU never shields, because I know that's another different timing)

 

[MasterShake]

You might be autocancelling your fair. Another timing depedent thing. Happens on certain frames, usually before and after an attack where you're not in attack lag anymore. You should be able to visibly tell if you L-cancelled or not though. If you're not sure with fair, try dair, because an L-cancel on that makes the biggest difference.

Also mu ratios are dumb.

 

[PolishSmash]

You might be autocancelling your fair. Another timing depedent thing. Happens on certain frames, usually before and after an attack where you're not in attack lag anymore. You should be able to visibly tell if you L-cancelled or not though. If you're not sure with fair, try dair, because an L-cancel on that makes the biggest difference.

Also mu ratios are dumb.

Thanks dude, and how long does it take to master this? I'm really getting frustrated and bored practicing this. This crap is so hard

 

[MasterShake]

I still haven't mastered it after 4 years lol.

But it gets easier the more you do it.

 

[PolishSmash]

I still haven't mastered it after 4 years lol.

But it gets easier the more you do it.

Oh lmao :D Should I learn just SH, attack, L cancel first? (Which is easier for me right now) Or should I put the FF in it right away? Because I read somewhere that I shouldn't learn the timing but how far away I am from the ground, and when I fast fall its kinda fast and I can't get it right yet.

Do pro's like Mew2King, PeePee, Mango ever mess up L cancels? And if not then how are they so consistent do they just practice all the time?

 

[MasterShake]

I say yeah learn the ff right away because I wish I did when I started, you'll be a lot faster in the long term and that's what really helps you after you don't have tech skill barriers anymore and still need to improve. Being fast opens up so many more options when you play.

Oh but you need to learn both ways anyway so...work on whichever first lol.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

With marth, most of his short hop aerials you can L cancel at the same moment of the ff or slightly after (same timing as his wavedash) and you'll L cancel pretty much every time. The only variation is dair because marth pulls his legs up so actually lands later than normal so the L cancel is slightly delayed.

Pro Tip: To practice this, vs a lvl 1 bowser with a handicap of 9 on FD with infinite time. Set your handicap to 1 and damage ratio to .5

 

[PolishSmash]

Thanks for the tip man, and I want to ask, what trigger do you guys use to L cancel? Do you use L or R and which do you use for Shielding? Because when I use Marth I Fair with C stick and control my spacing with the control stick in the air. I started using L but now R seems maybe a little better, but then I have to bend my finger more and I press the R trigger a little too much, while the L trigger I can just brush like you are suppose to....lol

 

[Niko45]

**** this character. Lets all go Falco at Apex.

10legits

you have no idea how much i wish i could

 

[.Chipmunk.]

Thanks for the tip man, and I want to ask, what trigger do you guys use to L cancel? Do you use L or R and which do you use for Shielding? Because when I use Marth I Fair with C stick and control my spacing with the control stick in the air. I started using L but now R seems maybe a little better, but then I have to bend my finger more and I press the R trigger a little too much, while the L trigger I can just brush like you are suppose to....lol

I think most people use L for tech stuff and R to shield, but it's all personal preference. There is no 'better' way, just use the one that works the best for you. But you need to learn how to use both in my opinion because sometimes you're put in certain situations where you'll need to shield with L or tech with R. Also, WD OoS is a necessity with marth.

 

[OverLord]

Samus has a way harder time than you guys think against Marth.

 

[Archangel]

You haven't played the Samus players here.

 

[Niko45]

Oh my god, lets not have this discussion please?

 

[stelzig]

sometimes you're put in certain situations where you'll need to shield with L or tech with R.

Huh?

L for everything!

 

[PolishSmash]

I think most people use L for tech stuff and R to shield, but it's all personal preference. There is no 'better' way, just use the one that works the best for you. But you need to learn how to use both in my opinion because sometimes you're put in certain situations where you'll need to shield with L or tech with R. Also, WD OoS is a necessity with marth.

Oh ok because I can only WD OoS by shielding with L.

 

[OverLord]

You haven't played the Samus players here.

LOL I did actually xD

 

[.Chipmunk.]

Oh ok because I can only WD OoS by shielding with L.

Oh, that's fine. You can always shield transition by pressing L down before releasing R. That's what I do anyway, if you're ever caught like that.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

Huh?

L for everything!

lol. we've all been in that situation where the air dodge doesnt come out soon enough and we're sent towards the stage rapidly. Better to tech with R then release L and repress it.

 

[stelzig]

But that's not even the situation you described. And even then, you can't tech for like 40 frames (iirc) after pressing L/R so either you're going to get that tech from pressing L or you have plenty of time to tap it.

I somewhat understand that some people find it easier to wavedash oos for the reason that you explain, but this sounds weird.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

I didn't describe a situation. I just said you can get put into them. Maybe you can do that just fine, but I find that trying to release L and repress it just makes me do it as fast as possible and I often press it outside the 20 frame tech window. (Why I get ***** by falco). By using the opposite button, I find that I'm much more likely to tech because I'm actually relying on proximity/speed to the floor instead of pressing a button.

 

[Archangel]

LOL I did actually xD

Who? and by "our samus players" I mean the good ones..

 

[stelzig]

I didn't describe a situation. I just said you can get put into them. Maybe you can do that just fine, but I find that trying to release L and repress it just makes me do it as fast as possible and I often press it outside the 20 frame tech window. (Why I get ***** by falco). By using the opposite button, I find that I'm much more likely to tech because I'm actually relying on proximity/speed to the floor instead of pressing a button.

Are you saying that what you described in your second post could in anyway be related to having to SHIELD or tech?

I still don't understand what you mean about falco unless you're still talking about that airdodging stuff... But whatever works for you

 

[OverLord]

I wavedash with L, everything else with R.

It's pretty fine.


@ Spam: is HugS good enough..?

I really don't get why sometimes seems like you find difficult to believe a different opinion and find ways to "prove" it wrong.

I didn't accomplished much in my "career" as a smasher, but I am way more experienced than you seem to think. If I say something is not out of a bunch of friendlies against some nobodies.

People can say things out of a reasonable base even when they say something you don't agree with.

 

[Archangel]

I wavedash with L, everything else with R.

It's pretty fine.


@ Spam: is HugS good enough..?

I really don't get why sometimes seems like you find difficult to believe a different opinion and find ways to "prove" it wrong.

I didn't accomplished much in my "career" as a smasher, but I am way more experienced than you seem to think. If I say something is not out of a bunch of friendlies against some nobodies.

People can say things out of a reasonable base even when they say something you don't agree with.

how did you do against hugs?

 

[OverLord]

Mostly "meh" I'd say.

He made me uncomfortable.

 

[Archangel]

Mostly "meh" I'd say.

He made me uncomfortable.

I see. What about Duck, Plup, IHSB, PI, III? Play any of them yet?

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

Christ Articanus is good.

I'm gonna incorporate a lot of his stuff.

<3

 

[Archangel]

are you talking about his set vs PBnJ?

 

[Beat!]

I see. What about Duck, Plup, IHSB, PI, III? Play any of them yet?

How does one play against Pi without playing against III?

 

[MasterShake]

Pi is better than 3 but kniht is better than both of em.

 

[Archangel]

How does one play against Pi without playing against III?

Meant to delete one of them actually.

 

[Metal Reeper]

Marth brothers, Apex is soonly approaching. The biggest tournament ever. I urge all of my Marth brothers to have a good old time and make sure everyone knows that Marth is not down for the count. We shall not only represent ourselves, our region, or character, but each other. May our fairs be spaced and our Fsmashes not be random. Good luck brothers <3

 

[MaxThunder]

... and if they are random, let them randomly hit someone in the eye...

 

[Archangel]

LOL, Good luck to all...I'll be watching from my computer chair....

 

[Winston]

Random fsmashes are good as ****. Predictable fsmashes are the real problem

A lot of low to mid level Marths telegraph when they want to fsmash with their movement patterns (I have this problem sometimes). If they really are random seeming though, and you've done a good job making them respect/fear your other options, they are pretty scary.

 

[PolishSmash]

LOL, Good luck to all...I'll be watching from my computer chair....

Aw man you're not going? Crap Your combo video is amazing though lol :D

 

[Archangel]

Yea I know...I'm sad. I'm actually more sad then I would be if I was wiped out round 1 pools losing to everyone in the pool. I actually find myself not wanting to play anymore....weird.

 

[Metal Reeper]

After 8 months Metal Reeper will finally post a video of his to be critiqued lol.