Commander_Beef
Smash Champion
That's what you believe sire, but the reality now is........is that I'm trying to put some sense in the air.
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Enemies of the Crown: King Dedede Matchup Thread (SERIN IS IN CHARGE NOW NOT GATES)
- Thread starter Gates
- Start date
Try to discuss the match-ups instead of arguing with each other about random other things. :/
Hey, that's my line.
But yeah, Beef, I agree with you that dsmash is a good move and it's underused by many Dededes, but when you bring it up as often as you do it does make it seem like you're just trying to show off your thread. You don't see
But yeah, Link.
Turns out his sword is not enough.
Use a bthrow to bair and, squadala, he is off!
T3h Albino
Smash Master
next matchup plssHey, that's my line.
But yeah, Beef, I agree with you that dsmash is a good move and it's underused by many Dededes, but when you bring it up as often as you do it does make it seem like you're just trying to show off your thread. You don't seeme showing off my flowchart at every opportunityBuuman continuing to talk about his thread after a lot of people have acknowledged its usefulness. And really, between stuff like this this and that request you sent me a few months ago to join the DDDBR...it just kind of seems like you're trying to increase your importance in the community as much as you can. Not hatin' just sayin'.
But yeah, Link.
Turns out his sword is not enough.
Use a bthrow to bair and, squadala, he is off!
Fogo
Smash Shinigami
lol that's why i only post about ridiculous ones
Atomsk help me beat campy MKs that don't tornado spam D:
Fogo
Smash Shinigami
I'm gonna do that actually, then aim you with questions :D
Monkey Wrench
Smash Apprentice
This matchup is easy as pie. CG Ganon off stage and edgeguard with bair/fair, that's a stock right there. Dedede can also shieldcamp all day and Ganon can do little to stop him. Just watch for his side-b, and don't get hit with auto canceled stomp, he can do some crazy stuff from it. Finally, beware of uair when recovering. Dedede should never really lose this matchup.
70-30
70-30
Koskinator
Smash Lord
Since I don't feel like posting about this matchup, ask CO18.
RATED
Smash Lord
Commander beef reminds me of me and inhales! XD jajjajajajaja pardon , but why are we discussing some random matchups... LOL! I feel like this is discusing DK! LOL!
Buuman
Smash Ace
Really...are we REALLY discussing this lol. Well I'll give both sides to this sad matchup.
Link can be a nuisance if he spaces the 2 hitboxed, 10% zair. I assume some good links will have a bomb in hand and shorthop air dodge zair a few times, and then finally throw the bomb. Link can do triple canceled and double canceled arrows if he wants to camp for minimal time before the D3 perfect shields --> grab ->win
NOTE: All tethers can be used three times only (3 snaps to the ledge). In this case, hookshot the ledge 3x
After that they can no longer tether UNTIL they touch the stage
D tilt can shield stab, but overall easy move to punish (shield grab). Smart links will know how to use the boomerangs reverse suction affects and air push aways effectively so watch out for that.
Watch out for links boosted up smash ( 3 hits and knocks you into the air which may or may not be a bad thing. Just watch out for links up air, if you air dodge, it WILL go to waste, and you WILL get hit by his up air. )
Link also has some good jab follow ups. The first two slashes come out fast and can lead into a down smash, grab, f tilt, and much more
Respect links bombs, they are dangerous, just chain grab and edge guard accordingly. After chain grabs, links, most likely, will use there second jump accordingly to snap to the ledge. Some may zair quick to snag the ledge, which you can counter with a fast fall bair. And others may not have second jumps at that point and will Up B. Down tilt, BAIR to edge guard. If you presume link is going to do an up B, it has a weird angle and may out space your bair, so get underneath and slam him with the top part a fair.
Against passive links, inhaling them after they used their second jump and spitting them out will prove to be effective due to links horrible recovery. Inhale --> drop off the stage ---> fall ---> keep falling...(don't worry you can recover...and he can't xD) --> spit him out...mash the jump button so you don't touch the death pit...and you're golden...link is dead..and you've recovered.
If there are anymore concerns with this matchup, I will be more than happy to add more, but for now, this matchup doesn't seem to be posing a threat, even to Dededes that don't use Dedede.
Link can be a nuisance if he spaces the 2 hitboxed, 10% zair. I assume some good links will have a bomb in hand and shorthop air dodge zair a few times, and then finally throw the bomb. Link can do triple canceled and double canceled arrows if he wants to camp for minimal time before the D3 perfect shields --> grab ->win
NOTE: All tethers can be used three times only (3 snaps to the ledge). In this case, hookshot the ledge 3x
After that they can no longer tether UNTIL they touch the stage
D tilt can shield stab, but overall easy move to punish (shield grab). Smart links will know how to use the boomerangs reverse suction affects and air push aways effectively so watch out for that.
Watch out for links boosted up smash ( 3 hits and knocks you into the air which may or may not be a bad thing. Just watch out for links up air, if you air dodge, it WILL go to waste, and you WILL get hit by his up air. )
Link also has some good jab follow ups. The first two slashes come out fast and can lead into a down smash, grab, f tilt, and much more
Respect links bombs, they are dangerous, just chain grab and edge guard accordingly. After chain grabs, links, most likely, will use there second jump accordingly to snap to the ledge. Some may zair quick to snag the ledge, which you can counter with a fast fall bair. And others may not have second jumps at that point and will Up B. Down tilt, BAIR to edge guard. If you presume link is going to do an up B, it has a weird angle and may out space your bair, so get underneath and slam him with the top part a fair.
Against passive links, inhaling them after they used their second jump and spitting them out will prove to be effective due to links horrible recovery. Inhale --> drop off the stage ---> fall ---> keep falling...(don't worry you can recover...and he can't xD) --> spit him out...mash the jump button so you don't touch the death pit...and you're golden...link is dead..and you've recovered.
If there are anymore concerns with this matchup, I will be more than happy to add more, but for now, this matchup doesn't seem to be posing a threat, even to Dededes that don't use Dedede.
Ray_Kalm
Smash Master
That old Ganon "is" the King.
I'll go into detail on this match-up later on.
T3h Albino
Smash Master
what detail? lol bait side-b's punish with a grab. cg off the stage bair/fair stock x3 you win ;B
TP
Smash Master
If you're going to make a one line summary, at least have the line be accurate. The Choke is a punishing move ONLY. You can't bait it. However, the rest of your summary is accurate.
This matchup is probably 70-30. I have never met a DDD I couldn't beat, though I have never faced any big name DDD players. If the Ganon is patient and spaces with Dtilt correctly, the matchup is winnable. The problem is Ganon gets punished hard for making a mistake, and has a very difficult time safely getting down from the air.
Jupz
Smash Master
Imo 80-20 although I've never played a good ganon. Its basically a grab and thats a stock, similar to IC's although much easier to get the grab and to pull off the CGs. Dedede can also small step CG ganon.
Commander_Beef
Smash Champion
ooooo...you like to Inhale a lot eh?
I don't want to know what you've been inhaling lately...
Good luck if Ganon counterpicks Norfair against you, seeming as how it's our so called "worst stage" and it's one of his best. He can bring you down under the lava while he gets hit by the lava. Back air will outprioritize Ganon's down B if you see him recovering with it.
Seems obvious though, it outprioritizes almost everything.
RATED
Smash Lord
pardon for those kind of post, but don't try to be funny bcuz I can be funny with u too.
CRASHiC
Smash Hero
Ganon's fastest attack is his jab, which is slower than sonic's foward smash.
Koskinator
Smash Lord
Ok, I'm gonna run a little scenario here.
Match starts.
DDD shields and waits to grab Ganon.
Ganon runs up, dash dances a few times in order to sike the DDD into spot dodging
Ganon flame choke dtilts, 21%
DDD gets a chaingrab, 25-35% and is now stale
Every CG after than is only gonna do less damage
You chaingrab offstage and go for a bair offstage
I fastfall a bit off stage and double jump Uair you into the stage
You get stage spiked.
X3.
Works both ways *****es.
Match starts.
DDD shields and waits to grab Ganon.
Ganon runs up, dash dances a few times in order to sike the DDD into spot dodging
Ganon flame choke dtilts, 21%
DDD gets a chaingrab, 25-35% and is now stale
Every CG after than is only gonna do less damage
You chaingrab offstage and go for a bair offstage
I fastfall a bit off stage and double jump Uair you into the stage
You get stage spiked.
X3.
Works both ways *****es.
TP
Smash Master
Sonic's forward smash is frame 15. Ganon's Jab is frame 8.
Ganon's Uair is frame 6.
Don't just say completely random ****.
:034:
Smash Hero
70:30 in D3's favor, my worst match-up personally. However, a grab is NOT a stock, that's a plain ridiculous assumption. D3 and Ganon have about equal range with Ganon's dtilt (which he CAN use to stay out of D3's grab range). In the air, good spacing can make either win (D3's dair works pretty well against Ganon, Ganon's uair and bair work pretty well against D3). D3 can be combo'd wicked easily, and D3... chaingrabs.
D3 can use a side-b, but can't use it as a bait. Ganondorf can just smack those *****es away any time he likes. Flame Choke works wonders on a dumb D3, if they whiff an aerial that's 21% garanteed, then another uair can easily be chained in. At low percents you can even do flame choke and 2 dtilts, it's ballin'
On the other hand, D3 has Z+Down.
That's all that needs to be said, really. Yeah, you can chaingrab us. Yeah, it does hurt. No, it's not a stock. It's still annoying as hell though.
A Ganondorf player can win by getting D3 up in the air as much as possible, use flame chokes to punish and add damage and go for a good dair or fair (reverse uair isn't as good against D3).
A D3 player can win with side+B to camp and down+Z to gay.
D3 can use a side-b, but can't use it as a bait. Ganondorf can just smack those *****es away any time he likes. Flame Choke works wonders on a dumb D3, if they whiff an aerial that's 21% garanteed, then another uair can easily be chained in. At low percents you can even do flame choke and 2 dtilts, it's ballin'
On the other hand, D3 has Z+Down.
That's all that needs to be said, really. Yeah, you can chaingrab us. Yeah, it does hurt. No, it's not a stock. It's still annoying as hell though.
A Ganondorf player can win by getting D3 up in the air as much as possible, use flame chokes to punish and add damage and go for a good dair or fair (reverse uair isn't as good against D3).
A D3 player can win with side+B to camp and down+Z to gay.
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
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Okay, use some logic next time plz.
Ganondorf's Jab is 8 frames. Sonic's F-smash is liek 16 or something.
Also, his grab is faster than Jab.
Vs Ganondorf....oddly enough...not really close to being his worst of the top tier matchups. Okay it's bad. But other people gimp Ganondorf harder, while with good DI, this should happen only seldomly in this matchup.
So it's gay and stuff since DDD will do cg nonsense and stuff, but Ganondorf can in fact keep up in damage for a bit with some combos and stuff. And then he actually has a ton of kill power with which he can use to punish dumb mistakes with on a powershield. DDD has trouble KOing heavy characters due to the extreme situationality of his kill moves and their lack of strength most of the time, so he will have to try gimps more...but he's not the best character at gimping a Ganondorf that's good at DIing.
So like 70/30...not any worse than that.
No, actually, we're not anymore.
You really gotta keep up with the discussions, Buuman. Especially since you suggested like half the rediscussions lol.
Buuman
Smash Ace
My apologies, I'm a bit behind. I figured I'd give my opinion on matchups that I missed. I have other things to do, so I might not be able to keep up with the discussions, but if I miss them, and you don't want my opinion that's fine
On the flip side, if you don't mind me giving my input on matchups from previous weeks, I'll be happy to continue my late opinions lol.
On the flip side, if you don't mind me giving my input on matchups from previous weeks, I'll be happy to continue my late opinions lol.
Ehh, it's no big deal.
CRASHiC
Smash Hero
I'm interested to see what kind of Gimps they could pull off.
Commander_Beef
Smash Champion
Watch for Mario's cape and/or his Fludd while we recover with Up B please...
Fireballs can be a nuisance if he keeps spamming them, but a waddle dee can take a blow and will only be knocked back like two feet. Forward tilt is great for removing the balls too, we don't have to use the shield.
Mario can combo two up tilts, then can go for a up air, back air or down air...it'll be easy to predict the up tilt when he's below us or he's extremely close in uptilt range, so it's easy to avoid. While afar, spam waddle dee toss as much as Mario spams fireballs because they ain't going nowhere.
His forward smash kills pretty early and I'm guessing maybe 95% to King Dedede, so just shield grab it if you can and you'll get a good 25%+ on him.
When we're on the ledge and he's trying to edgeguard, go for a ledge jump to a down air, since Mario can do anything about it except shielding if he sees it coming, which I doubt. Back air cuts through all his aerials obviously...and when he capes you, immediately spotdodge.
Also, King Dedede's jab works wonders in this matchup, so go for the third jab because it'll outrange everything he has while on the ground. If you see him jump, stop the twiddling of the hammer. And if he fireballs the hammer twiddling, it'll auto-stop it with no lag, so you have nothing to lose there. It works just like forward tilting the fireball. Don't underestimate his neutral air because it has surprising priority at the first couple frames, excluding the after frames of the sex kick.
I'd say 60:40 King Dedede.
Fireballs can be a nuisance if he keeps spamming them, but a waddle dee can take a blow and will only be knocked back like two feet. Forward tilt is great for removing the balls too, we don't have to use the shield.
Mario can combo two up tilts, then can go for a up air, back air or down air...it'll be easy to predict the up tilt when he's below us or he's extremely close in uptilt range, so it's easy to avoid. While afar, spam waddle dee toss as much as Mario spams fireballs because they ain't going nowhere.
His forward smash kills pretty early and I'm guessing maybe 95% to King Dedede, so just shield grab it if you can and you'll get a good 25%+ on him.
When we're on the ledge and he's trying to edgeguard, go for a ledge jump to a down air, since Mario can do anything about it except shielding if he sees it coming, which I doubt. Back air cuts through all his aerials obviously...and when he capes you, immediately spotdodge.
Also, King Dedede's jab works wonders in this matchup, so go for the third jab because it'll outrange everything he has while on the ground. If you see him jump, stop the twiddling of the hammer. And if he fireballs the hammer twiddling, it'll auto-stop it with no lag, so you have nothing to lose there. It works just like forward tilting the fireball. Don't underestimate his neutral air because it has surprising priority at the first couple frames, excluding the after frames of the sex kick.
I'd say 60:40 King Dedede.
Commander_Beef
Smash Champion
Yeah without infinite. A rough guess with infinite would be 80:20 King Dedede.
Commander_Beef
Smash Champion
Haha! Not a Peach's sideB...Here is a condensed version of what I think of Dedede:
You ****s can shieldgrab anything. ANYTHING.
You're just a ****in beast Bobson we love you!
Maybe when we learn to boost grab lol.
Matt07
Smash Master
Uuh with infinite well we screw up once and there goes a stock. Sure we can break out at lower percents but at higher percents we're screwed. Just dthrow us to 300 and utilt. A Dedede should NEVER lose this match-up with infinite. I'm not even gonna say its 80-20. How can Mario possibly win with the infinite? It's gotta be 100-0 in your favour.
CRASHiC
Smash Hero
Don't get grabbed