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Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!

ranmaru

ranmaru

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
13,296
Switch FC
SW-0654 7794 0698
I'm not changing.

But **** I didn't do well yesterday at this tourny. :[
 
otg

otg

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 9, 2007
Messages
4,489
Location
On my 5th 4 Loko and still ****** you.
Doc is bad guys. You can delude yourself all you want into thinking he's viable and will win a National. I'm holding my breathe, tho I wish all of you luck. I'm still gonna troll and I'm still goiing to play doc in friendlies, but that's the end of that.
 
VGmasta

VGmasta

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Messages
1,252
Location
West Palm Beach, FL + the Doc Boards!!
I don't feel like the Ganon vs. Doc matchup is as even as smashboards makes it out to be. I can't be aggressive nor campy to win this match up. All you have to do to lose the match vs. Ganon is just get outspaced on any attack. Everything Ganon hits with leads to a follow-up (even if the followup aint gauranteed).

VGmasta (Doc) vs. RockCrock (Ganon)
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/5790335 (Just the first 3 mins 56 seconds)

I mean it was like, Ganon grabs me at 50%, d-throw instantly so I don't get a chance to DI, then Up-airs me out of stage, then f-airs me out of the air jump that I didn't even get to use yet (even though the game registered an imaginary air jump somehow) :dizzy:

And yeah I know, I recovered low like 80% of the time, but what else could I do, waste my air jump on another one of his impossible up-airs?? :confused:
 
VGmasta

VGmasta

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Messages
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West Palm Beach, FL + the Doc Boards!!
MaDWaK said:
i have to throw in this video right quick as it relates too much with the title.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGh4ZU4H5Hk
Click to expand...
That's too true, you should probably just start a thread about picking tiers with that kind of video. I might pick up Falco. But not for tournament use;I still want Doc to be my tournament character. DaShizWiz makes Falco look like so much fun to use. I feel more accomplished getting so far into the tournament using non-top tiers. Plus Doc is fun for me to use. I got better at doing stuff that Marths and Sheiks don't have to really learn.
 
SpruceTengu

SpruceTengu

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
269
Location
Eastern MA
vgmastaricky said:
I don't feel like the Ganon vs. Doc matchup is as even as smashboards makes it out to be. I can't be aggressive nor campy to win this match up. All you have to do to lose the match vs. Ganon is just get outspaced on any attack. Everything Ganon hits with leads to a follow-up (even if the followup aint gauranteed).

VGmasta (Doc) vs. RockCrock (Ganon)
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/5790335 (Just the first 3 mins 56 seconds)

I mean it was like, Ganon grabs me at 50%, d-throw instantly so I don't get a chance to DI, then Up-air him out of stage, then f-air him out of the air jump that he didn't even get to use yet (even though the game registered an imaginary air jump somehow) :dizzy:

And yeah I know, I recovered low like 80% of the time, but what else could I do, waste my air jump on another one of his impossible up-airs?? :confused:
Click to expand...

Well said; I totally feel you there. I've been having alot of trouble with Ganon lately.
Especially since most my Ganon crewmates have caught on to my spacing and pillgame over the last year or so, I end up finding myself being SUPER patient with them. Ftilt spam tends to eat pills and not give me as much of an opening as I'd like. Granted Ganon is a bit more combo-able than samus (Upsmash at low %, Upair to Dsmash, upltilt to whatevs tend to work for me) I agree that its not so easy.

I think the biggest priority at the beginning is find a way to get his damage up so he cant jab you out of everything. I like Shroomed's suggestion though, and have to try it now...
 
Dogysamich

Dogysamich

The Designated Hype Man!
BRoomer
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Messages
6,140
Location
Warner Robins, Georgia
vgmastaricky said:
I don't feel like the Ganon vs. Doc matchup is as even as smashboards makes it out to be. I can't be aggressive nor campy to win this match up. All you have to do to lose the match vs. Ganon is just get outspaced on any attack. Everything Ganon hits with leads to a follow-up (even if the followup aint gauranteed).
Click to expand...
Shroomed said:
linguini and rockcrock are cool dudes

vs ganon, get in his face and uair to jab

that's wut i do
Click to expand...
*note: havent watched the vid yet to give you any specific advice*

I don't agree with Shroomed very often (lol), but I can safely say that he's absolutely right about the ganon matchup. That's pretty much what you do.

The hard part is GETTING there.

You really can play against ganon however you want (assuming you're doing it right). He can't run you down, and he actually has a fairly hard time getting you off of him if you stay in the right spots. You just have to get in through f.airs and tilts and what have you.

His u.air isn't unbeatable, you can d.air through it. You can d.air to stop it from coming out if you have it started. D.air is pretty good at stuff like that. Now if you're going to die you don't want to staight up CHALLENGE a ganon u.air unless you're content with death (which, at some times, you should be), but ganon's u.air isn't "unbeatable."

As for a pill game? Ganon's hate a good pill game, don't matter who they are, don't matter how good they are. Sure, ganon actually is mobile enough to move around a pill game (VERY mobile, although his size hurts him vs pills), he still has a hard time dealing with it if you use different setups.

I mean, here's a pill setup that's not really used (heck, I think i'm actually the ONLY person who's really behind it atm), SH Pills. Best offensive pill setup doc has.

I'm hoping the assload of friendlies I played at HERB3 were actually recorded, cause I tried to show a bunch of stuff that does/doesnt and could/couldn't work.
MaDWaK said:
i have to throw in this video right quick as it relates too much with the title.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGh4ZU4H5Hk
Click to expand...
Lol. I wasn't ready for that, but he's right, to some degree. To some degree meaning "not in balanced games".

Melee is far frmo balanced.

-sidenote- I, too, lol at the fact that he "respects" Long Island Joe for being a sagat main through-and-through. ... He's absolutely right in doing it, but it's just the thought that's hilarious to hear.

The Alpha Gundam said:
tope!
Hungrybox
Tope!
Click to expand...
HUNGRY-HUNGRY-HU-HU-TOPE! TOPE TOPE! TOPE! HUNGRYBAWKS!!! TOPE!

omg edit, i forgot the most important thing of HERB3
I f***ing hit somebody with Nintendo Power.

And they died.

I **** near cried.
 
Ocean

Ocean

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Nov 19, 2007
Messages
3,810
Slippi.gg
OCEAN#0
dogys commentary is top tier. I'm so glad he commentated my one dollar money match with JMH, I nearly cried tears of happiness.
 
ranmaru

ranmaru

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SW-0654 7794 0698
Dogysamich said:
*note: havent watched the vid yet to give you any specific advice*

I don't agree with Shroomed very often (lol), but I can safely say that he's absolutely right about the ganon matchup. That's pretty much what you do.

The hard part is GETTING there.

You really can play against ganon however you want (assuming you're doing it right). He can't run you down, and he actually has a fairly hard time getting you off of him if you stay in the right spots. You just have to get in through f.airs and tilts and what have you.

His u.air isn't unbeatable, you can d.air through it. You can d.air to stop it from coming out if you have it started. D.air is pretty good at stuff like that. Now if you're going to die you don't want to staight up CHALLENGE a ganon u.air unless you're content with death (which, at some times, you should be), but ganon's u.air isn't "unbeatable."

As for a pill game? Ganon's hate a good pill game, don't matter who they are, don't matter how good they are. Sure, ganon actually is mobile enough to move around a pill game (VERY mobile, although his size hurts him vs pills), he still has a hard time dealing with it if you use different setups.

I mean, here's a pill setup that's not really used (heck, I think i'm actually the ONLY person who's really behind it atm), SH Pills. Best offensive pill setup doc has.

I'm hoping the assload of friendlies I played at HERB3 were actually recorded, cause I tried to show a bunch of stuff that does/doesnt and could/couldn't work.

Lol. I wasn't ready for that, but he's right, to some degree. To some degree meaning "not in balanced games".

Melee is far frmo balanced.

-sidenote- I, too, lol at the fact that he "respects" Long Island Joe for being a sagat main through-and-through. ... He's absolutely right in doing it, but it's just the thought that's hilarious to hear.


HUNGRY-HUNGRY-HU-HU-TOPE! TOPE TOPE! TOPE! HUNGRYBAWKS!!! TOPE!

omg edit, i forgot the most important thing of HERB3
I f***ing hit somebody with Nintendo Power.

And they died.

I **** near cried.
Click to expand...
Haha I wanna do it too. But I'm not gonna wait 2 years. ;P
 
Shroomed

Shroomed

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Feb 5, 2008
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Santa Cruz
my ban is all based on their playstyle

my CP is also based on that but it's normally FoD or FD or yoshi's
normally FD is banned tho
 
Scidadle

Scidadle

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 26, 2009
Messages
2,041
Location
Toronto, Canada
Also.

I played a really good marth last weekend. YES WITH DOC. And I did really good vs him. I didn't get to finish the match but we were pretty much even before we had to cancel it. He's a much better player than me though.
 
VGmasta

VGmasta

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Messages
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West Palm Beach, FL + the Doc Boards!!
Scidadle said:
What do i ban/CP vs marth.

hes gay
Click to expand...
If Fountain of Dreams (FoD) is a tourney legal stage, ban it. The platforms work in Marth's favor too much here. Pokemon Stadium (PS) and Yoshi Story (YS) are questionable bans.

PS has those midmatch formations that can benefit Marth (sometimes you lose a stock because of formation crap). Make sure to pay attention to that big screen in the background for what formation you get before hand so that you have time to get the best position you can before the formation change. Like you don't really wanna get stuck on the edge on the left side of that rock formation, or get caught on top of the large rock when the Marth's underneath you. There's plenty of other bad setups to avoid, just watch for them. Other than that, you have some room to play more liberallly and fill out the Marth in the neutral formation. In YS the platforms can benefit Marth over Doc. There's also not a lot of room to run around the stage. But there's also less room for a campy Marth to run away from you.

But FoD seems to be the worst of both worlds; no room to move, plus terrible platforms that give Marth everything and nothing to Doc.

So, YS weighs the same as PS with a bit less room for you or Marth to run, minus the interference of bad stage formations. FoD has all the negatives of YS or PS

And yes Scidadle, I agree with you 100% that Marth is ____, you guys know how I feel about Marth by now.
 
KirbyKaze

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
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Spiral Mountain
I'd think Dreamland would be okay against Marth because it's Marth's worst neutral but I also don't know how Doc interacts with him there.
 
Shroomed

Shroomed

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Santa Cruz
dreamland is the best choice vs marth overall

i jus prefer YS cuz edgeguarding is easy there and he dies early from my COMBOS

im jus tired of gettin platform camped by spanimals on dreamland so i kinda hate that place
 
JPOBS

JPOBS

Smash Hero
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Jun 26, 2007
Messages
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Mos Eisley
Sheik is pretty awesome in every way excpet liek approaching.

but should you by some miracle gain the lead, lol gg

edit: lol these are the doc boards...um...downsmash and stuff..yea.
 
otg

otg

Smash Master
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Jul 9, 2007
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On my 5th 4 Loko and still ****** you.
Dogysamich said:
Oh it works.

YOU HAVE TO TRY FOR 2 F***ING YEARS, BUT IT WORKS!

And when I finally does? .... :3 :3 You stand up, fist raised up to the sky, feeling like you just accomplished something in life. :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
Click to expand...
I've gotten it to work as well, the setup isn't that hard. It's just waaay too situational, a lot of the time they just flat out miss the tech and don't try for it, so they don't airdodge and die.
 
Vulcan55

Vulcan55

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May 7, 2008
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May-Lay
Get the power
Nintendo Power
Get the clues that you can use
Nintendo Power
Higher and higher, fighting your way through enemy fire
 
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