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Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!
- Thread starter otg
- Start date
otg
Smash Master
He must be refering to SF4 or something. We all know how SRK loves smash and all.
yeah, it makes no sense. They said everybody who wins got sponsored, and like, they had people playing Madden, NCAA, and CoDMW2, so i'm like "um... they goin to evo too? lol".
I get the feeling it's not actually going to happen, but that's what they said was going to happen.
I'm not puttin all my cookies in the jar till im sitting in LV, though.
I get the feeling it's not actually going to happen, but that's what they said was going to happen.
I'm not puttin all my cookies in the jar till im sitting in LV, though.
Shroomed
Smash Master
too bad EVO wont have melee again
na. No major will. But apparently "it's no big deal" -shrug-
It's ok, free trip to vegas? I'm game if it actually goes down.
It's ok, free trip to vegas? I'm game if it actually goes down.
_Keno_
Smash Lord
That tournament was ridiculous. =/ I dont think anyone got the money they were promised, and I doubt anyone will get the sponsorship. Not to mention buy-ins and such. And 1st place getting the only stuff was...expected but still dumb.
And I will learn that Doc match-up before the next tourny...if you are going again this summer.
yeah, i'm not holding my breath on the sponsorship yet. I like the idea, and I'm telling myself "Hey I'm going to evo this year", but I'll probably be watching the stream, again. XD
And yeah, afaik nobody got the money. They advertised $1500 for madden, $1000 for NCAA, and $1000 for Melee under the assumption that enough people would show up to make those pots.
So we're talking ~75 for madden, ~50 for NCAA, and ~50 for melee, and that's not considering the pot chops they did.
____
As for the matchup, you do right things, and you look for right things, you just really fall back on d.smashing alot. >.>
And yeah, afaik nobody got the money. They advertised $1500 for madden, $1000 for NCAA, and $1000 for Melee under the assumption that enough people would show up to make those pots.
So we're talking ~75 for madden, ~50 for NCAA, and ~50 for melee, and that's not considering the pot chops they did.
____
As for the matchup, you do right things, and you look for right things, you just really fall back on d.smashing alot. >.>
Shroomed
Smash Master
$1000 for a ~50 man melee tourney does not compute with me
yeah. and the entry WAS $20.
Infact, it was single elim with buybacks, although the person who actually ran the brackets messed up the buyback system. XD
Infact, it was single elim with buybacks, although the person who actually ran the brackets messed up the buyback system. XD
Shroomed
Smash Master
at least you won lol
but $20 entrance for just a 50 man tourney sounds ********
but if i thought i was gonna win i'd enter too
but $20 entrance for just a 50 man tourney sounds ********
but if i thought i was gonna win i'd enter too
_Keno_
Smash Lord
yep, after me and dogy had grand-finals (we were the only ones left), zero bought back in, and they had grand-finals again. It gave me 3rd place, even though I beat out zero in semis.
And apparently I'm supposed to bair more against doc, hmmm...
Shroomed
Smash Master
who's zero? teczero?
buyback is ridiculous
and pink shinobi loves to bair doc's recovery cuz he cant do ****
u can bair through pills and it makes ur move lag and so the same bair will smack doc in the face
buyback is ridiculous
and pink shinobi loves to bair doc's recovery cuz he cant do ****
u can bair through pills and it makes ur move lag and so the same bair will smack doc in the face
Dynamism?
Smash Champion
we all know Doc loves Peach ***
otg
Smash Master
Although I've never really noticed it till recently, I'm terrible vs. Peach. I've lost to every Peach I've played in tourney ever.
Shroomed
Smash Master
this one time at band camp, i almost outcamped pink shinobi on kongo jungle
but i got hit by a turnip, lost the lead, had to approach and died =(
then the time ran out shortly after
but i got hit by a turnip, lost the lead, had to approach and died =(
then the time ran out shortly after
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Doc is so cheap. I hate fighting him with my IC's.
Shroomed
Smash Master
i need more ICs practice too
the only ICs i had played in singles before i played chu dat at P4 was sidefx
actually, i dont have much practice vs many chars now that i think about
the only ICs i had played in singles before i played chu dat at P4 was sidefx
actually, i dont have much practice vs many chars now that i think about
unknown522
Some guy
yeah, I feel the same. I really want falco and falcon practice.
*walks around the room aimlessly*
-sales pitch-
... AND SIR, THAT IS WHY YOU NEED TO PURCHASE ONE OF THESE HANDY-DANDY DOGY MATCHUP GUIDES!
COMES EQUIPPED WITH ALL YOUR PROBLEMS! (not specifically)
PIKACHU HOLDIN YOU DOWN? Y.LINK GIVIN YOU THE RUNS? ICS FREEZING YOUR SYSTEM?
LET DOGY GIVE YOU A HEAD START ON HOW TO FIX YOUR PROBLEMS TODAY! ALL FOR THE LOW PRICE OF$59.99 FREE!!
__
but seriously? ICs isnt bad. You might not like the matchup cause you love running slam into people (I say that jokingly, but seriously), but you really only need 2 moves to deal with ics.
F.air + Pills.
EVERYTHING else is a utility move in that matchup.
You don't have to worry about CGs outside of the universal handoff (hwich only works on edges). And wobbling, but the gimmick to that is both ICs have to be standing next to each other synced for a wobble to happen.
So hang out on platforms and you're straight on grabs, just have to worry about u.air.
Learn what desync setups look like. I think the current common one is DD -> Desync. Roll/Spotdodge/Empty grab are pretty common too. (For the sake of movement, seeing an IC player DD should be something that catches your eye real quick. They dont do that without purpose)
[/cliffnotes]
....
-sales pitch-
... AND SIR, THAT IS WHY YOU NEED TO PURCHASE ONE OF THESE HANDY-DANDY DOGY MATCHUP GUIDES!
COMES EQUIPPED WITH ALL YOUR PROBLEMS! (not specifically)
PIKACHU HOLDIN YOU DOWN? Y.LINK GIVIN YOU THE RUNS? ICS FREEZING YOUR SYSTEM?
LET DOGY GIVE YOU A HEAD START ON HOW TO FIX YOUR PROBLEMS TODAY! ALL FOR THE LOW PRICE OF
__
but seriously? ICs isnt bad. You might not like the matchup cause you love running slam into people (I say that jokingly, but seriously), but you really only need 2 moves to deal with ics.
F.air + Pills.
EVERYTHING else is a utility move in that matchup.
You don't have to worry about CGs outside of the universal handoff (hwich only works on edges). And wobbling, but the gimmick to that is both ICs have to be standing next to each other synced for a wobble to happen.
So hang out on platforms and you're straight on grabs, just have to worry about u.air.
Learn what desync setups look like. I think the current common one is DD -> Desync. Roll/Spotdodge/Empty grab are pretty common too. (For the sake of movement, seeing an IC player DD should be something that catches your eye real quick. They dont do that without purpose)
[/cliffnotes]
VGmasta
Smash Lord
Doc's f-tilt seems to keep the ICs in their place too.
And LOL at Dogy's post ^^
And LOL at Dogy's post ^^
otg
Smash Master
I'm pretty sure Doc's dsmash is safe on block vs them as well. He can move/throw out another move before they try to WD and punish.
SmashMac
Smash Lord
Yes. Tilts in general help this matchup. The pilling will help separate them as well. Generally a normal grab game on IC's, wouldn't recommend attempting to grab while they're together though. Dthrow at 90% to fair kill, but they can DI behind which if they do it right can be someone a pain the arse to follow up with the fair. Spacing is in high-demand for this matchup with bairs, SH DI backwards fair and full-hop dairs. Full-hop dair is actually good against a lot of floaty chars in general, either as an approach or after a dthrow at lower %s starting around 15% or so. Pressure their shield for rolls and other predictable stuff, since all ICs try to shield-grab, it's guaranteed. Based off your experience from former ICs you'll learn their de-syncs, so stuff like how to DI when you're grabbed at certain %s and the like will just come naturally through muscle-memory.
As far as the Peach matchup, if most Peach players stopped relying on dsmash it'd make their lives easier.
Good job Dogy winning that tournament. And lmfao at Evo for Melee. Maybe they meant sponsor you on a free plane ticket to Evo to have a good time lol? Good luck with that. Just be glad you got the money. Good **** with Doc. holding it down.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I'm 99.9% sure this is false. Largely based off anecdotal experience as a former IC main many moons ago.
But I also am 99.9% sure that the amount of timing it takes to zip out of shield and hit Doc also means they basically have to expect the D-smash, so it's not too bad if you do it sparingly.
otg
Smash Master
Word, I was just basing it off what I've experienced. The icies players I've dealt with might just not know how to deal with it.
i don't think ive ever got punished for dsmashing ICs sheild.
also you don't wanna be dumb about your pills. Throw one out within wd distance and the ics see it coming, they'll just wavesmash you anyways, and either popo or nana will eat he pill while the other keeps going.
also you don't wanna be dumb about your pills. Throw one out within wd distance and the ics see it coming, they'll just wavesmash you anyways, and either popo or nana will eat he pill while the other keeps going.
otg
Smash Master
Same here, I have however gotten punished for hitting their shield with Fair... so much so that I almost stopped doing it entirely.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I worked out the frames for the shielded D-smash because I was bored. Assuming you're frame perfect and phanna/SDM's data are both sound, ICs aren't stunned on frame 15 so their first actionable frame is on 15. Doc's D-smash takes 37 frames to complete. Their WD takes 14 frames before they can do actions (5 frame jump means airborne on frame 5, so frame 5 is when they can do actionable commands + 10 frame airdodge lag) so they get to Doc on frame 28. So if all that's correct, they have 9 frames, if you're frame perfect, to do stuff. Grab takes 7.
Still, it seems that with such a slim margin for error, you basically have to expect the D-smash if you're going to punish it.
This is done without Nana taken into consideration. I'm not sure how she affects it. Or if she affects it at all, really.
Still, it seems that with such a slim margin for error, you basically have to expect the D-smash if you're going to punish it.
This is done without Nana taken into consideration. I'm not sure how she affects it. Or if she affects it at all, really.
otg
Smash Master
I don't know if this gets taken into account as well, but they do slide quite a fair distance upon getting hit by dsmash on block, which might contribute towards them missing a follow up.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I was considering that, but I wouldn't know how to factor that in. I'd assume their lengthy wavedash gets there (though they'd have to do a very horizontal one, I'd imagine), since Doc's D-smash isn't particularly ranged but the thought did cross my mind.
otg
Smash Master
I can't recall, I would either get grabbed or something. This was awhile back, I haven't played the matchup in awhile tho I used to play it a lot.
anthony000
Smash Journeyman
Edgeguarding with nair.
Discuss.
Discuss.
Shroomed
Smash Master
i only do that vs marth
ranmaru
Smash Legend
- Joined
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How about edgeguarding with bair? eh? Hey, tips on figthing another doc?? I can't think of any other matchup that I might need help with, cuz I like, kno them. I mean I get stomped on all of em (like Falco) but still. I forget whats imporant against doc/mario.
