Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!

[anthony000]

I gotta stop choking in tournament.

 

[ranmaru]

About the marth thing. I find that ANYWHERE with platforms suck with him. Although I guess for cp I'd use Kongo, cuz the center platforms move so he could maybe miss and you could drop in. Maybe.

But yeah I love neutrals. I don't like FoD at all.

 

[otg]

For those of you who haven't seen it, I present the most ******** Doc combo ever:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULFDBKqBgGo&playnext_from=TL&videos=HPfR6Nii4WY

Good **** Dogy.

 

[Dogysamich]

Somebody said I should make a .gif for that. I lol'd.

__

But yeah, loads of friendlies uploaded onto my youtube from herb3. Credit definitely goes to Epsilon933, a.k.a. UsurperKingZant for recording the vids.

So check em out and for the love of god, feel free to say anything positive, negative, neutral, Swahili, whatever. Any comments are good comments as long as there's some content to them.

 

[VGmasta]

Nice, some Dogy vids. Can't wait to watch them, I bet they're good.

 

[Niko45]

Dogy vids are so entertaining. Stop writing guides and get recorded more.

 

[Ocean]

disregard this, forgot that I already told you over youtube.

 

[Dynamism?]

I learned to UpB cancel yesterday...
DURING a doubles match.
SOOO GOOOD

Didn't actually combo out of it or anything, but pulled a few off randomly here and there. Now I need to do it OOS. :D

No idea how it's gonna help my game though...I'm too ftilty and mobile...not comboy and kobe type

What do you usually do out of UpBCs anyway?

 

[unknown522]

****it dogy, grab sucks. Especially on the ground

 

[ranmaru]

I learned to UpB cancel yesterday...
DURING a doubles match.
SOOO GOOOD

Didn't actually combo out of it or anything, but pulled a few off randomly here and there. Now I need to do it OOS. :D

No idea how it's gonna help my game though...I'm too ftilty and mobile...not comboy and kobe type

What do you usually do out of UpBCs anyway?

Umm, nothing really. Theres not that much you can do. Even if you try it on fox he would di left or right and it wouldn't be close enough for you to even nair.

The uses for upb cancels are "Oh wow nice you can do a upb cancel". Thats about it. xD

You have to learn that doc doesn't need technicality, just smarts, and some tech too. Thats what I am learning the hard way. I like to attack first, and TRY to get an attack in, but when my friend counters my every move, I switched to waiting for him to attack first, dodge his attacks, and then attack. Hehehe.

 

[Dogysamich]

I
What do you usually do out of UpBCs anyway?

What you really SHOULD be doing after an UpB cancel = nothing. NOTHING is guaranteed after it, and it really should just be used as along with regular up+b's to get people off your shield.

Now, what you CAN do is some dumb *** **** like just tryin to combo the trash outta people afterwards.

>.>
<.<

or you could do the infamous Nintendo power. :x

****it dogy, grab sucks. Especially on the ground

O_O Wat.

Really, I want to half agree with you, but I think it's actually more of a I make some illogical and inefficient choices with my throws.

Like, here are some things that I (and a few other Docs AND MARIOS) do that I think are pretty inefficient with grabs.

1) Alot of us never take our guaranteed pummels from grab.
- Like, If you're looking to dunk somebody, or even for a setup where you don't want di, it's ok to do throw a.s.a.p.

-However, alot of people (I'm notorious for this) will do something like setup a b.throw, and then throw a.s.a.p. at 130%. .... You have to find somebody who's EXTRA BAD at the game

2) Alot of us are content with f.throw when it really doesnt amount to alot.
- I mean, lets be real. It normally don't lead to ANYTHING, and if you go to throw somebody off, they just grab the ledge unless it's at like, 100+ or so.
- *insert clip of me f.throwing somebody straight to the ledge 3x in a row* -

3) The thing that comes from this is that alot of people dont try "the fix" for it (me included), the fix being experimenting with other setups.
- Well, I HAVE been tryin stuff, but it's not too far out of the norm.
- You look at the marios though (or the good ones atleast), and they've got no problem u.throwing people in situations where it would NEVER cross a Doc's mind. And we wonder why they combo so well sometimes.

___

All in all, I don't really think Doc's grab game is bad at all, it's just we (or maybe just I) suck at it.

U
You have to learn that doc doesn't need technicality, just smarts, and some tech too. Thats what I am learning the hard way. I like to attack first, and TRY to get an attack in, but when my friend counters my every move, I switched to waiting for him to attack first, dodge his attacks, and then attack. Hehehe.

Define technical, cause I'm callin bs on that all day.

 

[KirbyKaze]

O_O Wat.

I think he meant to write "Jab" instead of "Grab".

Unknown has no typing tech skill.

 

[JPOBS]

neither of them really make sense, he says "especially on the ground" and i dont see how you could grab/jab otherwise.

while we're on the topic, the next smash bros game needs to have Aerial Grabs. I often hit Y+Z out of short hops/full hops cuz i think "****, it would be **** if i cud grab him right now" but i fail and just dj nair lol
im gonna be da best at SSB4 cuz im already ahead of the metagame.

 

[unknown522]

O_O Wat.

Really, I want to half agree with you, but I think it's actually more of a I make some illogical and inefficient choices with my throws.

Like, here are some things that I (and a few other Docs AND MARIOS) do that I think are pretty inefficient with grabs.

1) Alot of us never take our guaranteed pummels from grab.
- Like, If you're looking to dunk somebody, or even for a setup where you don't want di, it's ok to do throw a.s.a.p.

-However, alot of people (I'm notorious for this) will do something like setup a b.throw, and then throw a.s.a.p. at 130%. .... You have to find somebody who's EXTRA BAD at the game

2) Alot of us are content with f.throw when it really doesnt amount to alot.
- I mean, lets be real. It normally don't lead to ANYTHING, and if you go to throw somebody off, they just grab the ledge unless it's at like, 100+ or so.
- *insert clip of me f.throwing somebody straight to the ledge 3x in a row* -

3) The thing that comes from this is that alot of people dont try "the fix" for it (me included), the fix being experimenting with other setups.
- Well, I HAVE been tryin stuff, but it's not too far out of the norm.
- You look at the marios though (or the good ones atleast), and they've got no problem u.throwing people in situations where it would NEVER cross a Doc's mind. And we wonder why they combo so well sometimes.

yeah, super typo. I meant jab. Jabbing when the opponent is on the ground is what sucks, because the opponent can DI away/up and avoid the next move, or intercept it. Also CC is gay, and is the main reason that jab sucks. If you catch them out of the air with it, it can be good sometimes especially if they miss the DI.

Also, that's some good throw tips. Vs FFers, I usually d-throw -> smash when they are at a reasonable percent. vs floaties, I usually try to dunk em instead of b-throw. If I have the chance to f-throw them at the ledge though, I usually go for it and hope they miss the DI, but even if they don't, my edgeguarding is pretty good anyway.

Grab is awesome. Also, u-tilt is godsend vs DD campy players.

 

[KirbyKaze]

neither of them really make sense, he says "especially on the ground" and i dont see how you could grab/jab otherwise.

while we're on the topic, the next smash bros game needs to have Aerial Grabs. I often hit Y+Z out of short hops/full hops cuz i think "****, it would be **** if i cud grab him right now" but i fail and just dj nair lol
im gonna be da best at SSB4 cuz im already ahead of the metagame.

You're not going to like it when you Air Trip for attempting to Air Grab with too much momentum, though. Or the new mechanic where in order to edgehog someone you have to play a Mini-Game where Toad appears and says, "Chance Time!" and you roll dice to see if the edgehog was successful.

 

[JPOBS]

omg i hate when i jab someone on the ground and they jab me back and we get into a boxing match -_-

You're not going to like it when you Air Trip for attempting to Air Grab with too much momentum, though. Or the new mechanic where in order to edgehog someone you have to play a Mini-Game where Toad appears and says, "Chance Time!" and you roll dice to see if the edgehog was successful.

yea but i **** at those dice games in mario party i always get like 7 or up so i got this thing on lock :hipsmile:

 

[KirbyKaze]

If you're winning the chance of getting a higher number than the opponent is reduced, though.

 

[JPOBS]

hmm...so technically the probabilities of successful gimps will be greatly reduced.

i main falco.

im fine with that.
long live aerial grabs and roulette edgeguarding.

 

[ranmaru]

Dogy, I meant like just being super technical I guess. Like he needs tech as all other characters do, wavedash, spacing, whatever. But it seems Doc also needs good reads and **** like that [smarts], because he doesn't have as much options as higher tier characters. We gotta be careful before we step into capfal's territory, and then **** on it.

You know what I mean? I don't know what you thought I meant.

Basically I just realized that at times I must be defensive as well, and I"m usually aggresive, thats all. One of those self-realizations.

 

[Rostigalen]

Hey guys, I'd appreciate if you could help me out on this (hopefully simple) question.

Basically, whenever I play against my friends Fox, he always is the one to approach, always with Nair. I always shield and try to shieldgrab him when he has landed, and it never works. What would be the recommended thing to do? U-tilt? F-tilt angled upwards?

 

[VGmasta]

Hey guys, I'd appreciate if you could help me out on this (hopefully simple) question.

Basically, whenever I play against my friends Fox, he always is the one to approach, always with Nair. I always shield and try to shieldgrab him when he has landed, and it never works. What would be the recommended thing to do? U-tilt? F-tilt angled upwards?

Well, first off. Why specifically are you unable to shieldgrab his n-air?
Is he landing behind your shield as he n-airs you, or does he input the shine attack right after he n-airs you. If he is doing any of these two approaches, you really can't shieldgrab him.

 

[Rostigalen]

He tends to land in front of me, but he shines before I'm able to grab him. At times he lands behind me but that doesn't happen too often.

 

[X1-12]

He tends to land in front of me, but he shines before I'm able to grab him. At times he lands behind me but that doesn't happen too often.

grab him before his aerial starts? or after the shine.. or you could even WD OoS backward or something to throw his spacing then F-smash his shine or something if its low % you might even be able to CC D-smash his N-air

 

[ranmaru]

Or instead try something else. Wd back when he nairs and hit him with a well spaced fair. :3

 

[Rostigalen]

Now that sounds slightly dangerous O.o

Alright, I'll ask this way - what do you do when a Fox approaches and Nairs, lands in front of you and shines (assuming you shielded)?

 

[X1-12]

Up+B OoS? Shield DI away? wait and try to shield grab later

 

[KirbyKaze]

WD back or forward after the shine perhaps?

 

[ranmaru]

Now that sounds slightly dangerous O.o

Alright, I'll ask this way - what do you do when a Fox approaches and Nairs, lands in front of you and shines (assuming you shielded)?

Its harder to shield grab a fox because

1. They are fast
2. They have a shine
3. They have a shine

Although if you want a safe way, wd back/forward and then return to the opponent and nair.

Also, try using JC grabs. :3

 

[JPOBS]

along with all the suggstions posted so far which are all great.

you can be a balla and Uptilt->techchase/combo him XD

 

[-eskimo]

I'm looking for a good combo against falcons that don't di your upthrow around 70-80%. I'm so trained for the uair dsmash follow on di but I can't figure out anything truly punishing if they don't. Anyone have a good vid for this?

 

[Dogysamich]

Man, I had a nice post typed out last night, then I got hit with the 502 combo. So it's gone now, oh well.

_____

In other news, I got good news for you guys. I went and bought a new capture card today. So I'll be getting more **** recorded.

I might actually dig around in my closet and pull out the recording armada (my 4 vcrs).

.... dont count on that one, though. The crew hasnt been seen in public since TGMTSBCO, and even then, they sat their *** behind the main table both days.

 

[ranmaru]

Yeah I know. xD You should be at the ready with notepad next time. Nice. How much it cost you? I want to get one, so I could record stuff as well.

 

[VGmasta]

Aww yeah, I be meaning to comment on Dogy's HERB3 vids. Dogy pretty much steamrolled over everyone in friendlies. I was mostly intrigued by the extended jab combos and the ledgehop->retreating pills->regrab. I already use the ledgehop pill and regrab, but I never thought about immediately DI'ing away from the ledge when I do it. I thought that was a super safe way of using the edge.

 

[eighteenspikes]

youll get hit

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Man, I had a nice post typed out last night, then I got hit with the 502 combo. So it's gone now, oh well.

_____

In other news, I got good news for you guys. I went and bought a new capture card today. So I'll be getting more **** recorded.

I might actually dig around in my closet and pull out the recording armada (my 4 vcrs).

.... dont count on that one, though. The crew hasnt been seen in public since TGMTSBCO, and even then, they sat their *** behind the main table both days.

COLUMBUS DOESN'T EXIST, THO.

*awaits Alpha and Gerbil.*

Smooth Criminal

 

[Dogysamich]

lol. Columbus still is alive, just isnt what it used to be.

Infact, I went to herb3 with Alpha, Alternate275, and DP. Gerbil? LOL. Guy hasnt been to a tourney since TGMTSBCO. Anybody in the south knows why. Prac? Came through some rough times, although he randomly went to SoD8 early last year and got like, 3rd. Ares? MIA for years.

But Columbus is actually still deep as f***. Still the biggest crew in GA easy, but it's made up of a bunch of people who never travel to tourneys and probably will never go to one except for one in Columbus (read: if G4S6 ever happens).

 

[Rostigalen]

Thanks for the helpful replies, guys. I'll try to incorporate things like wavedash OoS into my game - it's hard because I use R both for wavedashing and shielding. U-tilt seems pretty legit too and easy enough for me, same goes for Up-B OoS (pretty risky?).

 

[Dogysamich]

I use r for both.

You do know that you can jump out of shield-drop lag, right? >.>

 

[Rostigalen]

Of course. It's just that I've never really put any focus on the more-than-basic techniques, and I don't own a Melee OR a Wii/GC at the moment, so my training opportunities are limited. /johns

 

[unknown522]

I might actually dig around in my closet and pull out the recording armada (my 4 vcrs).

.... dont count on that one, though. The crew hasnt been seen in public since TGMTSBCO, and even then, they sat their *** behind the main table both days.

is mike carter still around? Also Cornel?