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Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!

Gea

Gea

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 16, 2005
Messages
4,236
Location
Houston, Texas
Get a grab and don't mess up.

And for Luigi a seemingly stupid tip but you'll be thankful for it is always ALWAYS assume a green missle is going to be a misfire. Cape even if you whiff all those times, it will be damn worth it when you cape that misfire and they just kind of die (or carry themselves to the blastzone on some stages)
 
Scidadle

Scidadle

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 26, 2009
Messages
2,041
Location
Toronto, Canada
I feel like one of my biggest weaknesses as a doc player is not knowing the percents in which I can combo off my up-throw on spacies.

I always feel like I should be doing more than up-throwing at like 55%~ so I try something that doesn't work and mess up my opportunity.
 
Frisbie

Frisbie

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 26, 2010
Messages
405
Location
Houston
KirbyKaze said:
Pills stop his WD kind of. Not amazingly, but they offer some disruption. Not a bad way to police how he can come in.

B-throw and d-throw > bair (if they don't DI the throw well) can create good gimps setups. You could probably camp the edge ad constantly go for gimps if you wanted. Once he's offstage, it's not too hard to leverage advantage & cover options to the point where he's forced to recover onstage with an air-dodge or side-B or whatever, which then means free hit for you. Remember that viagra kick is actually really good vs air-dodge sometimes, otherwise try to force him back off with bair (if possible). If he's definitely gonna land onstage and there's nothing you can do about it, hit him with a big move (d-smash, u-smash, fair, f-smash, etc) or throw him back off.

Thing that beats Luigi hardest is a spammable, huge, strong aerial that comes out quickly that he can't really shield-punish or WD OOS on after (Ganon bair, Sheik fair, Falco dair, etc). That and Falcon / Fox's existence. Anyway, bair kind of works for this because it can push him out of range for his crouch-punishes, but its medium priority also opens it up to be cannibalized by his enormous anti-airs (u-smash, u-tilt, every aerial, etc).

In general I think staying on the ground and preventing him from getting the jump on you with a WD approach by whatever means you have (pills, spacing inside his WD but outside his f-tilt & ground attack suite, platform camping even [although Doc's not really built for it]) will probably win you the MU. Luigi can combo you pretty hard for seemingly no reason sometimes.

WD OOS d-smash / grab on his d-smash.

Jab sucks against him. Uair combos that are not tight are likely to incur nair trades. However, nair itself can be punished pretty hard if you bait it so keep that in mind.
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Wow thanks for all the advice. I figured that being in the air vs Luigi would be bad just because of his great anti-air moves, but even still I had trouble stopping his WD. I'll definitely think of ways to implement this into my game, thanks a lot.
Gea said:
And for Luigi a seemingly stupid tip but you'll be thankful for it is always ALWAYS assume a green missle is going to be a misfire. Cape even if you whiff all those times, it will be damn worth it when you cape that misfire and they just kind of die (or carry themselves to the blastzone on some stages)
Click to expand...
Just picturing this in my head made me smile.
Scidadle said:
I feel like one of my biggest weaknesses as a doc player is not knowing the percents in which I can combo off my up-throw on spacies.

I always feel like I should be doing more than up-throwing at like 55%~ percent so I try something that doesn't work and mess up my opportunity.
Click to expand...
It just takes practice. Play your friends' spacies and if you mess up a combo, think about what you should have done instead. One small tip I have is that if you are chain grabbing and your opponent is DIing towards the ledge, around 40-50%, do a dthrow->dsmash, and they'll have horrible DI on it. I killed my friend at like 60% on FD with one of these yesterday. Falco has an amazing move set, but is really easy to combo/kill. If you're playing a really aggressive Falco, I would suggest baiting him to the ledge, because a Falco off the stage is dead. I personally like to edge guard spacies from the ledge just because it is really easy for them to sweetspot, and from the ledge you can cover all low recovery options with bair/other stuff, and if they recover high then you can easily react to it, since they have to fall. If they are in a range where they can easily firefox/bird to a platform, then I usually jump out as close to them as I possibly can and cape when the move starts, because if you are close enough, your cape will get them no matter which direction they go in.
 
Max?

Max?

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 4, 2011
Messages
2,255
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Falco Bair
KK you're advice is so good.

I feel like the write up on Falco has been done so many times. What exactly are you having problems with?
 
Max?

Max?

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Falco Bair
What about the neutral game? Are you letting Falco lasers pin you down into shield? You're going to have a bad time if you're stuck in shield a lot. The game plan is to stay mobile as much as possible, and limit the amount of pressure situations he can do to you.

I try to stay at a diagonal to him; if he's under the left platform shooting lasers, I'm on the right platform throwing pills; if he's on a platform, I dash dance right outside of his range to bait him coming down with an aerial. Understand that pills are really good in this matchup since they stop him from jumping. A combination of pills, cape (used sparingly) and powershielding make it so he cant just laser you mindlessly.

Punish really hard.

Once you're in a pressure situation, understand your options. Your main priority is to get the hell out of there, so WD oos is really good, as is buffer roll -> WD away or something. You can try to Usmash him after the shine, or even go for an upB, but once again, just try to get the hell out.



TL;DR

Take your time and make your punish game count. Doc has good anti-laser technology, so use it well and Falco won't **** you up for free.
 
knightpraetor

knightpraetor

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
2,321
"

I try to stay at a diagonal to him; if he's under the left platform shooting lasers, I'm on the right platform throwing pills; if he's on a platform, I dash dance right outside of his range to bait him coming down with an aerial. Understand that pills are really good in this matchup since they stop him from jumping. A combination of pills, cape (used sparingly) and powershielding make it so he cant just laser you mindlessly.
"

this sounded really good to me as a former marth main. a very effective way to deal with lasers when you have pills that can attack on diagonals. However, unfortunately doc has a much harder time dealing with platform camping than marth
 
Max?

Max?

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Falco Bair
knightpraetor said:
"

I try to stay at a diagonal to him; if he's under the left platform shooting lasers, I'm on the right platform throwing pills; if he's on a platform, I dash dance right outside of his range to bait him coming down with an aerial. Understand that pills are really good in this matchup since they stop him from jumping. A combination of pills, cape (used sparingly) and powershielding make it so he cant just laser you mindlessly.
"

this sounded really good to me as a former marth main. a very effective way to deal with lasers when you have pills that can attack on diagonals. However, unfortunately doc has a much harder time dealing with platform camping than marth
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I mean, if Doc had a 3 foot sword he'd be pretty good. Sadly, he's just a stubby italian with a PhD. He can dealing with platform camping, you just have to be patient, take a risk here and there, and pick your spots. All in all, I'm not really scared of Falco's that much (especially since most of them are really really bad), but that's just me.
 
Scidadle

Scidadle

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Hm. Good advice. That sounds just like what I needed. Lasers and dairs really **** me and that's some sound advice.

Thankzssss
 
Gea

Gea

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Jun 16, 2005
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Houston, Texas
Get a friend to sit there and shl at you and practice powershielding. Also practice reacting to getting hit with lasers and doing something asap out of them so you don't lose momentum when you get pegged. Two very important skills that transfers across all characters. Especially dash into falco lasering PS grab. SO GOOD.
 
boss8

boss8

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where ever I please,im a f***in boss!!
knightpraetor

knightpraetor

Smash Champion
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Oct 20, 2005
Messages
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sheiK??? oh just quit marth..oh wait, you don't play marth; well the solution is the same either way.

edit: sorry boss, you know i'm just kidding. I will look over the video later and see if i can think of anything. I'm sure if you look over it you will see stuff too; but sheik will always have the easier time
 
Griffard

Griffard

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Joined
Sep 13, 2007
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boss8 said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUHIBRCegvA

i have more matches....haven't had any in a while....

but i want to ask u guys about luigi and shiek...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8mjETBg6Wo

despite the fact i sit n shield,what other flaws do i have?

also if u guys notice i use cape a lil offensively....

u guys should try it out...

i think i had the set 2-0....i jus threw it away...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uzX2LnVbSU

falco is falco...
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I'm loving your doc, boss. Loving the cape, the combos, etc. You could work a little more on the edgeguarding, once Doc has got someone off stage, he should really hustle for the kill I think. Grab ledge more when you know people are going for it. Not too many complaints though, that's a sexy MD!
 
Max?

Max?

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Falco Bair
Griffard said:
I'm loving your doc, boss. Loving the cape, the combos, etc. You could work a little more on the edgeguarding, once Doc has got someone off stage, he should really hustle for the kill I think. Grab ledge more when you know people are going for it. Not too many complaints though, that's a sexy MD!
Click to expand...
Couldn't have said it better myself.
 
Frisbie

Frisbie

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Good **** boss, your doc is fun to watch. I think you could have gotten a lot more out of your grabs in that falco game, especially on FD, but overall your doc is pretty awesome
 
knightpraetor

knightpraetor

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only gonna comment on the first match vs sheik since I haven't had time to watch the rest yet, but boss you're struggling with how to deal with low percent sheik. The problem is that swinging with bair got you spotdodge grabbed and shieldgrabbed, and going for fair requires too much space and start up. i think playing defensive is the right idea but you need to work on spacing out sheik till she is in a percent range you can handle.

also your edgeguarding match 1 was really sloppy. One life you go off stage and then try to reactively do rising bair to hit the poof, but good players will usually poof instantly in response to you going offstage, so you should either waveland off into instant hard predict where they are going to poof to and swing or assume they will hit an early poof and predict where they will go. If they are limited to going on stage it's not too bad, but sometimes sheik has all her options so your best bet is jump on stage and then waveland to the ledge last second. keep em guessing.

Another stock you took the ledge early while sheik still had her double jump and the option to go high. Taking the ledge is good, but you can't do it early or they will just jmp over you on stage, needle you, or a host of other things.

Anyway it was a good match
 
Crypt

Crypt

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
Messages
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Washington
ppu/shroomed is SOOOOOOOOOOO GOOD.

shroomed please never leave doc!!! that dunk on mango was just flat out amazing.
 
ranmaru

ranmaru

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Feb 10, 2008
Messages
13,296
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SW-0654 7794 0698
Scidadle said:
I feel like one of my biggest weaknesses as a doc player is not knowing the percents in which I can combo off my up-throw on spacies.

I always feel like I should be doing more than up-throwing at like 55%~ so I try something that doesn't work and mess up my opportunity.
Click to expand...
I do that too. I was told I don't set things up right, and its true I don't have guaranteed chains memorized, except upthrow to dunk on %90 jiggs/peach.

I am trying new things though. Will need to study these, and practice DI. I feel I don't have a full understanding of it.

:phone:
 
Max?

Max?

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Falco Bair
Watched some of the Apex vids last night. Shroomed you're a ****ing monster. Straight up running through the Sheik gauntlet. M2k will take time tho, that mo****er is too dirty.
 
Gea

Gea

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Houston, Texas
M2K's gameplan for several matches was to sit under a platform at the edge and wait. Shroomed mega props for beating KK and Westballz. You gotta get your pillgame on full throttle for Hbox.

Shroomed for #1 Apex2014
 
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