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Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
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Jul 22, 2007
Messages
3,308
Aren't Xianghua and Ivy top tier in that game?

I always used Link and just shot a lot of arrows... then mashed the spin attack thing when they got close.
 

otg

Smash Master
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On my 5th 4 Loko and still ****** you.
Aren't Xianghua and Ivy top tier in that game?

I always used Link and just shot a lot of arrows... then mashed the spin attack thing when they got close.
Oyy... Link. He was the character I started off with, and I got worked A LOT. His best weapon is pretty broken cause it allows him to just camp out, but he's bottom tier.. sort of like most of his appearances in the smash series.

Yeah Xianghua and Ivy are top tier, and there are a few others who debate that Cervantes, Nightmare and someone else are up there as well due to there tournament placings. IMO though, Cervantes is high and nightmare is at least mid. This game is really dead though, even though it's probably better than it's two successors (>.>)...imo...(<.<)
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
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Spiral Mountain
SC2 was better than its successors.

Even though X was stupid and gay and dumb and a big meanie.

Also in SC4 is Cassandra's 2A, 1K, and 11B good or have a bunch of her lows changed? I hear her 236B is still stupidly amazing.
 

Dogysamich

The Designated Hype Man!
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yeah, sc2 was a pretty kool game. 3 was ok till VC was found out, and then people just went and hid in a corner. I dont really know cause i didnt play either of them seriously (although i managed to win 2 minor sc2 tournies, XD)

As for cass now, her 2a is ok I guess. Just a standard s-low, nothing special on her frame data.

1K is a decent fast low, like i17 or something like that (i think, i just kinda hang it out there, i dont use it to punish). I know you have disadvantage on regular hit, KD on counterhit.

11b, i cant remember if it used to be different. Her reverse over-her-head shield spin thingy that rings out behind her? That's what it is now. And that's about the only thing you use it for, tryin to catch people in dumb ringout traps.

As for her 236b. Oh god is it dumb now. she's got 2 versions of it. The only i14 punish of justice, and a new i16 (or 17, somewhere around) version that's a stunpunch. 1:36 to see some of the new 236B shinannigans (its the same vid i uploaded last post)
Cass can do some dumb things off normal hit 236 (the stunpunch). And oh my god, heaven forbid if you get normal hit 236, ji236 (just input), then you can do stuff like

236, ji236, ji236, ji236, 4BB:A.

There's even dumber**** you can do if 4BB:A wallslams. XD
 

Dogysamich

The Designated Hype Man!
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*points to keypad*
it's the universal input system for fighting games.
1 = downback
2 = down
3 = down forward
4 = back
5 = neutral
6 = forward
7 = up back
8 = up
9 = up forward

Always done from p1 side.

So, 236B would be the same as qcf (for street fighter players).
in melee, a forward tilt would be 6A, down angled would be 3A, up angled 9A. Uptilt would be 8A, etc etc.
 

ranmaru

Smash Legend
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I mean, to understand the gyst of what you are saying. Hehe
 

Dogysamich

The Designated Hype Man!
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i just explained everything i just said. >.>

you play street fighter? You like hadoukens?

236P

shoryuken? 623P

*points down to keypad* imagine that as a dpad. That's where it comes from.

The main reason it came out actually came from SNK games and 3D fighters where the commands are actually listed in the games as down, downforward, forward, rather than quartercircle forward (as they are in street fighter).

___

and if you want soul calibur knowledge, you go to calibur forums (which is down while im typing this post or you go to 8 Way Run

Gamefaqs my ***.
 

Dogysamich

The Designated Hype Man!
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cass's angel step GIs something. What, i dont know cause i dont really use it for GI. (I think it's all highs or something, i dunno)

sophie's doesnt GI, but her angelstep and twin angelstep are too strong. XD

As for sophie being unchanged, i guess she's not? I wouldnt really know.

Um, 236B is still the staple punish for the whole game.
236236B is supposed to be beastly too, but i dunno the framedata for i236236B.

66B 66A+B 66B doesnt work, but 66B 66A+B works just fine.

11_77A[A] shinannigans still exist, but nowhere near as bad as in 3 imo. (I dont think you have as much liberty to charge [A] as you did in 3).

Um, she looked fairly close to the same to me. BB's still safe as all getout and does hella damage. AA's good. I mean, that's what you need to be a sister.

You'd have to be more specific for me to answer that question better.
 

KirbyKaze

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Really I was just wondering if Sophie's angel step still GIed and if her twin angel step went under mids. My friend was saying it did, and that it did in 3, so I was wondering if it was really that powerful.
 

Dogysamich

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Really I was just wondering if Sophie's angel step still GIed and if her twin angel step went under mids. My friend was saying it did, and that it did in 3, so I was wondering if it was really that powerful.
dude, sophie's TAS (**** typing that out) goes under s-mids. Right now, it's her way around algol's bubble game. Cause if you havent heard, that **** is dumb. XD

Is xiang still OP in 4? I don't have any of the next gen systems so I don't have access to it yet. What's the metagame like?
OP as in on point? X got nerfed, but i dont think it's bad. She's not brokenly safe as she was in 3, and because of that nobody plays her as much as she did. Her BnBs got jacked (somewhat, i know her main one only works on CH now). Other than that, i think she's ok.

She's got a new stance, a fake out stance. Basically, out of half of the moves she's done since her existance, she'll stop and pull her sword over her head. From there, you have a few options. My only gripe about the stance is that if you've played X, you know that she ONLY has mids out of there, so she cant really threaten you with the stance I think. She may have had some big soul crushing move from stance, but not anymore since CFing got nerfed in the current patch (YES PATCHES ARE DUMB XD)

The metagame? Pick algol, get a lead, and spam bubbles. XD Not really. CFing used to be huge, like, big enough to where they nerfed it heavily. Some people used to be able to break guard in 2 moves once it was flashing, now it takes everybody like, 5 or 6?

Beyond that, it's alot of knowing character gimmicks and tricks. Variable cancelling hasnt been discovered yet, so you dont have to worry about staying in some throw stun while you eat a ******* combo. XD

But you do have to worry about some nasty shinnanigans, such as hilde's charge moves. She's like, high tier maybe mid, but she's got a nasty ringout game.
Amy can just get confusing as hell to look at with her cute stances.
Ivy used to be too strong before the patch. I mean, that ***** literally took half your life from 1 combo if she caught you standing or in CH (CH including if you got caught stepping) HOWEVER IVY'S SS/CS THROWS BLOW BECAUSE OF THE NEW BUFFERING SYSTEM.
Yoshi and Cerv have mixups out the ***.
Mitsu got a new 2KB that is pissing people off. It's like, i16 or something standard, but because of how he does the 2K, it's ****ing hard as hell to block on reaction. It aint really safe though.

*thinks some*. You want more? Cause that's just me being real general.
dogy u main talim? i stole your fakeleap lmao. It confused the **** outta some ppl at a tournament
Yes and no. XD
Like, when i first got the game, i mained talim, and i still play talim the most. However, when i went to IC2, i played cassandera cause i was scared to try to beat people with talim tricks.

I still havent really picked a main. I play Talim/Cass/Asta/Mina/Sophie. Im supposed to be learning amy so my friend can actually see wtf amy does, cause he got ***** by some dumb amy **** at IC2. >.>

After playing my friend some, i've come to the conclusion that if somebody has seen a talim, you have to go to hell and back to win. She is just tooooo ****ing unsafe. It's one thing to be a high risk character, but my god she doesnt get rewarded.

WL A really should never hit, which is where the meat of her damage comes from. BT B is a gamble. WS B+K or A is a 50/50 mixup, and if they guess right you're -14+ on block (meaning you throw that **** at a sister, you're eatting 236B everytime). It's just kinda scary to think of that.

However, for that fakeleap thing. Yeah, if somebody doesnt understand how talim's wind moves are supposed to work, that **** is hilarious. Making the physically impossible possible. I wish you could wind charm and stop after that though. That'd be awesome as ****. :(
 

MikeHaggarTHAKJB

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
3,187
Location
Göteborg, Sweden
*points to keypad*
it's the universal input system for fighting games.
1 = downback
2 = down
3 = down forward
4 = back
5 = neutral
6 = forward
7 = up back
8 = up
9 = up forward

Always done from p1 side.

So, 236B would be the same as qcf (for street fighter players).
in melee, a forward tilt would be 6A, down angled would be 3A, up angled 9A. Uptilt would be 8A, etc etc.
Cool, I had no idea O.o I need to start playing other video games then smash lol.
 

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
3,308
So... about Doc... and his cape... two things, actually.

One. I can't seem to cape Ness out of the PKT2. I cape, and he just keeps going. Am I doing it wrong, or is that just the way life goes?

Two. Caping spacies out of their side B. It seems to stun them for a really long time and they drop, but they get their third jump back... why don't they just shoot off the other direction?
 

Dogysamich

The Designated Hype Man!
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Cool, I had no idea O.o I need to start playing other video games then smash lol.
yeah, that numbering thing is pretty kool. Ya dont really need it until you start talkin about some dumb commands, such as Guile/Charlie's somersault justice from street fighter ([1]319K) or Ivy's summon suffering (3214391 A+G in WP - i could be completely wrong cause i get those mixed up now)

Sometimes if you go look up info for capcom games, they'll still use qcf, qcb, hcf, etc. because that's how it's actually listed in the game.

*Dumb fact*
Ironically, nobody ever lists the 720 command like it is listed in a game. Everybody always says 720, but the command is really 360,360. So if you play a command throw character (i.e. zangief or honda), you can actually do 720 supers by doing 6321478741236. And yes, those arent complete 360s, you actually dont have to do that either. XD

So... about Doc... and his cape... two things, actually.

One. I can't seem to cape Ness out of the PKT2. I cape, and he just keeps going. Am I doing it wrong, or is that just the way life goes?

Two. Caping spacies out of their side B. It seems to stun them for a really long time and they drop, but they get their third jump back... why don't they just shoot off the other direction?
You can cape ness outta pkt2, but it's kinda dumb how the move works. I'd imagine it'd be safer to either just edgehog ness, cape his PKT or take the hit, or maybe b.air him away or something. You could always ledgehop cape him, too.

As for spacies, it's some dumb property when you hit them out of their phantasm at higher percents. I'd have to mess around with it again to figure out how it works (i forgot because I dont cape spacies out of phantasm anymore.)
 

Dogysamich

The Designated Hype Man!
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if you catch him coming in at an angle and you cape him away, then he goes away. Makes sense.

However, if he's riding up a wall and you cape him, he continues to ride up the wall and you get ***** in the face. Technically speaking, makes sense. However it just looks dumb when you do it.

Cause ya know, when you cape ness, you dont really expected to get punished for it, do you? Well it happens sometimes. >.>
 

MikeHaggarTHAKJB

Smash Master
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Göteborg, Sweden
Hey what's with the fox getting his third jump back after getting caped out of his side b thing? O.o Never experienced/seen/heard of that
is a fox main with cape-o-phobia
 

Dogysamich

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i've never seen a spanimal (i've gotta start using random's phrase more often) get his jump back from caping phantasm.


Fall do their death, yes, be able to recover and jump? Not that i've seen.

Of course, i'll admit i wouldnt know because i dont cape phantasm. I f.tilt (6A NYUKKA!!! XD)
 

otg

Smash Master
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On my 5th 4 Loko and still ****** you.
i've never seen a spanimal (i've gotta start using random's phrase more often) get his jump back from caping phantasm.


Fall do their death, yes, be able to recover and jump? Not that i've seen.

Of course, i'll admit i wouldnt know because i dont cape phantasm. I f.tilt (6A NYUKKA!!! XD)
Truth, you FTILT that ****. I think there is just a misunderstanding here, by third jump you guys must mean there UPB, because to my knowledge they don't get their second jump back from getting hit by the cape.

Also, the cape only works on Side B if you catch them with it in the opening frames of the move, after they start travelling they will just tumble out of it. Even if you do Cape their Side B, you should be able to hit them with a Dsmash or Fsmash before they hit the ground.
 

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
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Oh, really? Yeah, I played a little more and it seems like I got caped out of the end of it. It was a lot like when I caped/got caped while grabbing, which inexplicably stunned me and sent me tumbling.

I couldn't recover after the caped side B as Falco, who has crappy vertical recovery on the Fire Bird, but I could with Fox. So yeah.
 

Dogysamich

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Also, the cape only works on Side B if you catch them with it in the opening frames of the move, after they start travelling they will just tumble out of it. Even if you do Cape their Side B, you should be able to hit them with a Dsmash or Fsmash before they hit the ground.
ah, i thought it was some specific percent.

but yeah, youc an d.smash them or something if you catch them on the stage.

if not, they just got like


~~(O_O) <-that's doc and his cape
_____________
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
____kill wall
|
|
|
|
V_V <-Spanimal.
 

otg

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 9, 2007
Messages
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On my 5th 4 Loko and still ****** you.
Oh, really? Yeah, I played a little more and it seems like I got caped out of the end of it. It was a lot like when I caped/got caped while grabbing, which inexplicably stunned me and sent me tumbling.

I couldn't recover after the caped side B as Falco, who has crappy vertical recovery on the Fire Bird, but I could with Fox. So yeah.
Yeah actually that might work. You're talking about that second or two where spacies are no longer in the Side B animation but still have a bit of momentum? Yeah I'm not to sure if caping them than will turn them around. In theory it sounds right, but to my experience caping them after they start travelling never works out.

99% of the time, you want Ftilt/utilt/insertbettermovethan cape here.
 

HiIH

Smash Lord
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Atlanta, Ga
Uh... fsmash, dsmash, ftilt, utilt....

<.< I bet you could even dtilt them into a stage spike.... well... no you couldn't at all I guess.
 

Dogysamich

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f.tilt if they go at you or sweetspot, u.tilt if they go at your head (or even at you if you want).

jump and nair if they go above you.

If you're dumb enough to d.tilt, feel free. All you do is actually give them a chance to tech.
 

Roman.

Smash Champion
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Mar 25, 2007
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Wilbraham, MA (Springfield)
we're talking phantasm? i always utilt if it's not a sweetspot and an angled ftilt if it is

if they honestly go so far about you the utilt won't hit, you have so much time to fsmash or fair
 

Dogysamich

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that **** is so hard to do, though. XD

And that combo only works if cass has a wall to her right.

But yeah, beyond that, that **** is pretty dumb. I'll admit. XD


 

ranmaru

Smash Legend
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Messages
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I liek pie. ;3 But yeah... More talk about Doc! Oh that rhymes ;3
 
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