Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!

[Ðesh•]

so does more talk about cock

 

[ranmaru]

Lol nice doesn't say you edited that. >_>

So does talk about spock. ;3

 

[Roman.]

stop approaching with nair

discuss

 

[Ðesh•]

 

[ranmaru]

I like to approach with a pill and then grab to dthrow [hopefully I didn't get hit at this point] and then utilt then sh into dair and then chidori. :3. I think this works more on heavier characters though, I have noticed, like Dk. :3

 

[Ðesh•]

wth, that sounds pretty sexy, not very practical, but sexy. o_o

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Since when was the fsmash Chidori?

 

[KirbyKaze]

is bair doc's best aerial?

 

[ranmaru]

wth, that sounds pretty sexy, not very practical, but sexy. o_o

Yeah, I love doing that, but I guess it wouldn't work on a pro, obviously. So thats why I also have to find out what will.

Since when was the fsmash Chidori?

No one calls it the Chidori here? Oh well, its not really a Chidori, but its cool to say. ;3

is bair doc's best aerial?

Yes, I guess, can kill at early percents when using for edgeguarding, if timed well. ;p

 

[otg]

is bair doc's best aerial?

Best... that's all a matter of how you use it. Sure it's probably his most versatile, but Nair is dope when used seldomly, and Fair when spaced properly it's pretty brutal too.

..... nah in retrospect it's definitely Bair, I mean you can ****ing waveland out of it.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I see.

How do you guys do the Puff matchup?

Mostly I just pill spam and try to space Fair/Bair on her when I can because she seems to spend most of her time in the air doing Bair or Fair. Anything else I should be aware of?

 

[Dogysamich]

oh this is the one matchup i know for doc. XD

First, spam pills. Literally, just space and spam pills. As jiggs comes in, you just knock her away and go right back to doing it. She's got to come in somehow, so you just keep on going.

Around 80% or so, start looking for a grab. ~80% - ~105%, D.throw -> f.air. Guaranteed to connect, kills on most stages (hell, even dreamland) unless they know how to DI to live (and alot of people DONT know how to DI and live through a fair).

If they get beyond 105%, just look to hit them with something solid. F.smash, F.air. D.smash, AA U.smash (anti air upsmash, if you hit them when they're on the ground it wont kill for a LONG time because of how u.smash works).

___

Extra notes to know.

If jiggs is ledgecamping (which jiggs loves to do), back up and throw pills so that they bounce over the edge right into jiggs' path. Yeah jiggs can stay there and ledgecamp, but now jiggs has to be frameperfect or eat a pill. And if they eat 1, they'll eat like, 3 trying to get back to the ledge. Doc is one of the few characters that can completely stop jiggs from ledgecamping on most stages.

If jiggs misses a rest anywhere, anytime; you get 3 or 4 free capes + f.smash/f.air (im actually going to look and see which one would be better, i never actually thought of doing a fair till alpha gundam mentioned it to me last night).

For the love of god, just ban mute city. Fighting a jiggs on Dreamland, or KJ64 is nowhere near as dumb as fighting one on mute city. XD

 

[otg]

Jigglypuff is a learned matchup; some Docs I know think it's easy, others think it's one of his hardest fights.
-Pill spam is good, force her to approach you.
-Try to play center stage because she has the advantage off stage and by the ledges.
-She doesn't really have many options when she's above you, so Uairs/utilt/Usmash are all good moves to punish her floaty nonsense.
-Ftilt is good to throw out to as it has misleading range and comes out pretty quick.
- Sometimes the cape is good for ****ing with Jigglys who just try to space themselves out with Bairs. It does damage, turns her around allowing you to get a hit in and it sends her up and above you most of the time; right where you want her.
- If you get grabs in, I like to do something like Dthrow-> dair -> falling uair. She eats most of the Dair and you can follow up with w'e aerial you like but Uair seems to be standard.
- Your safest kill moves are Dsmash and Fair, fair being the one that ***** at pretty low percents. Dthrow -> fair works at 70-80ish, maybe a lil higher or lower.

That's pretty much all the advice I can give. Just be careful when recovering, and good luck lol.

If jiggs misses a rest anywhere, anytime; you get 3 or 4 free capes + f.smash/f.air (im actually going to look and see which one would be better, i never actually thought of doing a fair till alpha gundam mentioned it to me last night).

For the love of god, just ban mute city. Fighting a jiggs on Dreamland, or KJ64 is nowhere near as dumb as fighting one on mute city. XD

Hellz yea, can't believe I forgot that. And yeah I forgot about the ledgecamping stuff. I dunno, imo it's like 60:40, Doc, or so. Jiggz has to smart to play smart and WoP like nuts to win.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Also, you should save your double jump if she starts bairing/fairing you off the stage. It's instinct to try to jump over her, but you'll probably just get hit out of it and then there's no way you're going to recover.

 

[Dogysamich]

- Your safest kill moves are Dsmash and Fair, fair being the one that ***** at pretty low percents. Dthrow -> fair works at 70-80ish, maybe a lil higher or lower.

Works around 80ish. You try it in the 70s, and jiggs can recover and rest before you get there. I've had it happen to me. XD

 

[ranmaru]

How about Shiek advice? :3

 

[otg]

How about Shiek advice? :3

OK... where to begin. This fights hard. Sheik's faster than you, has much better range, a very useful projectile and has really good edgeguarding options against you.

- First and foremost, keep Sheik off the stage. Her recovery has some good distance but if you just edgehog her and force her to Up B onto the stage, her wind down lag allows you to punish her and send her right back off. It goes like this:

Send her out -> edgehog (refresh those invincibility frames) -> she lands on the stage with tons of lag -> under 100%, tap up or jump/over 100% always jump -> fsmash, fair, bthrow her right back off -> repeat till dead. This works a little too well sometimes, and there isn't a whole lot she can do about it if you just play smart. As for getting Sheik off the stage.....

- That's another story entirely. As much as I hate to say it, Chaingrabbing is fantastic here. You can cg her from 0-50ish% with Dthrow, and you can get it over 50% if they don't DI right. What's even better, is out of the dthrow you can get a free Fsmash depending on their DI, and a guarenteed Fair... once again don't know the percent, going to guess around 90ish. Go check out smashmacs guide. But regardless, all this dthrow->fair/fsmash nonsense leads into Sheik getting off the stage, which leads to gay edgeguarding etc etc etc.

- Pills are sort of useful. Once again it's all situational about how you use them, but know that if Sheik has needles charged up they will beat out pills. 1v1 it's different.

- Go for grabs, bait/spotdodge, waveland all over the place etc etc. Try and let Sheik approach you with pills and beat her away with Ftilt/jabs/bairs. I don't know this is always a hard fight, but as long as you get grab in and edgeguard your in good shape.

- Now if you don't want to CG, grabs are still your best friend as you can pretty much combo the balls out of her from them. You get free usmashs, uairs etc etc.

Just try not to get hit and don't get grabbed. DI her Fair upwards, if she gets you in Dthrow I believe you want to DI behind her and down. Don't become predictable and don't recklessly approach unless your absolutely sure. Making mistakes will get you *****.

That's about all I can think of right now, hopefully Dogy or someone else can fill in some gaps.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Just a few addendums/amendments to otg.

If you can ledgedash, a really cool trick is to force Sheik up onto the stage, then ledgedash to a turnaround fsmash to get her back off. Watch the spacing though, as it won't work if she's too far into the stage.

If she IS too far into the stage, though, it means she had to start her Vanish pretty close to the stage. Which means you can hit her as she's rising from the false jump. She'll be invincible from when her body his horizontal, so get her before then with a bair, and she's pretty much gone.

Also, if she grabs you at low percents and dthrows, I think you might actually want to DI up/not at all. Sheik can chaingrab you if you DI away/down/behind and down, I believe.

 

[Dogysamich]

I WAS BUSY DOING SOME NEWGAME+ **** IN TALES OF VESPERIA WHEN THIS GAME UP YESTERDAY, SORRY.

*Holds up hand*

THE SIGN OF VICTORY!!

__

I dont see what the problem is with chaingrabbing a sheik. I mean ****, it's not like sheik doesnt chaingrab half the ****ing cast anyway. Give that ho some chainmcgriddles.

I'll add more later today when i get back from another long ****ty day.

 

[t3h stock slayer]

dont get it. *skips off merrily* ^_^

 

[otg]

Just a few addendums/amendments to otg.

If you can ledgedash, a really cool trick is to force Sheik up onto the stage, then ledgedash to a turnaround fsmash to get her back off. Watch the spacing though, as it won't work if she's too far into the stage.

That was what I was talking about when I said edgeguard her lol, but yeah thanks for clarifying. As for her CGing you, I'm pretty sure you can Nair out of it before she gets the other
grab off.

As for the morality of CGing, personally I don't see the problem with it. I have a crewmate who johnz and johnz and johnz when I beat his Sheik with cging, so I decided to learn to fight the matchup w/o it. CGing is safer than fighting in this matchup, and makes it a little easier but it's still hard as balls.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Apparently Nintendo doesn't have a problem with chaingrabbing either, 'cause Brawl is full of them.

 

[Dogysamich]

Apparently Nintendo doesn't have a problem with chaingrabbing either, 'cause Brawl is full of them.

That **** is just overkill. XD

 

[Roman.]

idk about you guys but grabbing a sheik happens rarely

 

[ranmaru]

Then make sure that once it does happen make that one grab count, Roman. ;3 Thanks guys for the advice.

 

[Roman.]

i'm just saying, yeah you can take full advantage from grabs against sheik but don't count on it as a main strat.

 

[t3h stock slayer]

k so guys,
doc vs marth
just plain ****ing stupidest **** i've ever had to go through ever.

i play peach and doc, and theres so many bloody marths.
i know what to do against a marth, but then the marth does moves.
also, what do you do when you get put into a pure marth pool, and you play the worst possible characters for the match up,

an hero?

also, roman, doc dittos? im pretty sure im going to CT,
so you're someone i'de like to play ^_^

any other docs you know going ?

 

[Roman.]

definitely hit me up when you're around, im on the border of MA and CT

marth is gay XDD

 

[t3h stock slayer]

lol grats on 1000th post,
yeah,
but i kinda like how his whole entire "a" move set protects him when you touch them.
i wish doc had big high ranged metal objects that swirled around him when ever hes losing =/

 

[otg]

i'm just saying, yeah you can take full advantage from grabs against sheik but don't count on it as a main strat.

Of course you can't rely on it, but that doesn't mean you can't apply this knowledge given the right circumstances. Everything in this game is situational. And I mean, if the only grab attempt your making is shieldgrabbing than you're never going to get grabs in, but DDing around/mixing up movement patterns/jab after aerials/aerials-> grabs, you can get grabs in.

I don't think anyone said your main strat should be CGing, if anything you should just focus on getting that ***** off the stage and keeping her there lol.

As for Marth:
-don't get hit lol
-mix up your approaches a lot so you don't become predictable and try to get in close because Marth can't do a lot when you get in there.
-Wavedashing in with your shield after he does does an aerial/fsmash/w'e allows you to get in close and potentially get a quick jab, grab or dsmash off.
-For a great example in edgeguarding Marth I suggest this match from Dogy Samich himself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjLlEZEYQAI- at 1:30, THE GAYNESS. Yet so effective. Of coures you can bair the crap out of him and cape his *** if he makes simple mistakes, but this is a very safe way to do this and after seeing this I've used it to great success.
-Marth can edgeguard you really well, so try to get really good with ledgeteching and if you ledgetech jump (or w'e the **** you want to call it) the safest bet is to airdodge immediately back onto the stage or Up B almost immediately to catch them off guard.
-Marth's can also jump out backwards, hit you with an easy Bair and still make it back. If you can anticipate this try to cape him because your pills will get beaten out as you recover. You can also try to recover backwards onto the stage so you bair your way safely.
-One last thing while recovering, be CAREFULLLLL when you tornado because it leaves you very vulnerable. Don't do it too close to the stage and if you DON'T need to do it at all just stay away, don't even run the risk.
-If you can get grabs in (and you would like to do that if you get inside) dthrow leads to free damage.
-Ftilt. Lots of range, beats of Fsmash, good for edgeguarding too.

Dunno, just becareful of his range, bait and spot dodge, etc. Play smart.

 

[scha-k-47]

-Marth can edgeguard you really well, so try to get really good with ledgeteching and if you ledgetech jump (or w'e the **** you want to call it) the safest bet is to airdodge immediately back onto the stage or Up B almost immediately to catch them off guard.

Personally the airdodge is a decent method to get back on the stage but usually by the time you land the marth can grab you or is ready for another attack.

If you up-b immediately and the marth is spacing properly he is not going to get hit by your up-b if you do it immediately from the ledge tech.

From personal experience the only real safe way to get back on the ledge is to fast fall from the ledge tech to and then up-b. Then after that you have to try and get back on the stage, which can in itself be a bigger hassle then trying to get back on the ledge.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Dashdance outside of Marth's range so you don't get ***** by priority. Don't try to overextend combos 'cause you'll get combo'd yourself. Use pills.

If nothing else works, play Sheik.

 

[HomeMadeWaffles]

the doc boards are too good

 

[Pine]

lol its roman...my lil doc in the making <3


edit..marth is actually one of my fav matchups...just move around and dont get hit by his projectiles -.-

meaning stay away from him until you see the oppertunity to attack...marth is not faster then you and has nothing to shoot you with therefore you can play keep away till he messes up...jab downthrow fair always works...

its not that difficult if you can be patient

 

[otg]

edit..marth is actually one of my fav matchups...just move around and dont get hit by his projectiles -.-

wtf are you talking about.

 

[ranmaru]

Ah, his sword. So much range, gah. I think he was trying to make a joke.

 

[otg]

Ah, his sword. So much range, gah. I think he was trying to make a joke.

Sword =/= projectile, sorry.

 

[ranmaru]

True, haha. Man, sometimes when I try to get back on the edge and Marf is edgeguarding, I get a lil scared, and that might also cause my death. D:

 

[JonaDiaper]

max is sexy against marth. all i see him do is jab>grab> up smash at low percents tho which is unoriginal and gay. does like 30 damage tho

 

[Pine]

wtf are you talking about.

he doesnt have a projectile hense then -.-

i was saying you can stay as far away from him as you want because he cant outcamp you....

play like a *****