otg
Smash Master
I don't mind FD vs. certain spacie mains (def not going to take Chops there anytime soon) and vs. other mid/low tiers it isn't bad. I'd avoid it at all costs vs. like Marth/Jiggs/Sheik/Peach etc etc etc.
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Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!
- Thread starter otg
- Start date
ranmaru
Smash Legend
- Joined
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It's good good. Thrivin', but still alive.
Also, I actually like FD when it comes to Marth... I notice that I don't do well with platforms. : [
SmashMac
Smash Lord
I still don't understand how Dr. Mario's recovery is "bad". At APEX I had the PTP recovery mastered. It was like a milestone I accomplished. Now I always do a PTP and with that being perfect I made some ******** recoveries. Then again for the most part I was playing like I've never played before at APEX.
And dair is amazing by the way. So good <3.
And dair is amazing by the way. So good <3.
ranmaru
Smash Legend
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I still can't lol... I can in slow motion tho. lol
otg
Smash Master
It's really laggy, easily baited, easy to DI out of, etc etc etc. Idk, I just get ***** for using it, so I stopped.
otg
Smash Master
Crossing up shields with it, and calling out people's jumps with it isn't bad. It can be practical for edgeguarding as well, tho bair/uair/nair are way more efficient.... now that I think about it, that seems to be it's problem in general, Bair/uair are just way better.
its been called bad for years.
it's just 4 or 5 docs who've said "no it's good" wwwwwwwith no real change in the outcome. D:
ranmaru
Smash Legend
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Yeah I like it because it stays out longer... so like if they jump they are getting multihit... is multihitting bad in this game?
Also my friend who is a falcon, wonders why I always go for a bair edgeguard. He says it's oldschool lol.
Also dair is something I would use on jiggs or falcon... but deff not on marth. (unless I'm trying to NOT get hit by his sword... when trying to land from being hit)
and plus people wouldn't expect it at all either.
Gea
Smash Master
Dair is a tool you pretty much can only use safely when you can already predict the other player. Using it to pressure shields is alright, and doing it twice in a row usually gets people (dair the top of their shield, dj dair again) but too many uairs go through it.
Don't get me wrong, I love the move. I do think it's useful mainly against fastfallers who can't DI up and away as easily to punish. It's just way situational.
Don't get me wrong, I love the move. I do think it's useful mainly against fastfallers who can't DI up and away as easily to punish. It's just way situational.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
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- 26,564
dair is a bad move because it's bad
Shroomed
Smash Master
think I'm jus gonna sell out and be a peach/sheik main
otg
Smash Master
wor d
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Rofl why peach?
VGmasta
Smash Lord
D-air ***** in the correct situations. TRUST me. It's annoying at the very least to take 14%-19% damage just from jumping into Doc's d-air alone. Sometimes you can combo additional aerials with it.
In all my experiences vs. fastfallers, calling their jump with a FH d-air -> b-air/up-air -> jab/grab/tilt always works well for me.
Yeah man, don't give up so easily. Although, Peach and Sheik are good characters to play with. I think you could start winning consistently with Doc if you keep honing your skills. That's what I intend to do once I officially pick this game up again.
Shroomed
Smash Master
Peach is the most fun character in the game to play and sheik is freakin sheik
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I didn't ask about Sheik, I know Sheik is freakin Sheik.
SmashMac
Smash Lord
Most of my combos against any floaty character have dair in them at least once. Some of them even twice depending on the situation. Also, dair has helped me countless times with recovering to the stage (especially against those characters like Jiggs and Peach who think they can just destroy Doc's recovery). It is also a very good option to approach from above with rising dairs, seeing as how the move has an above average priority, and usually does what I like to call a "suck up" of the opponent (more-so floaty chars), there-by leading to a combo. Dairs also lead to FF uairs, which in turn (depending on your opponent's character) can lead to SHFFL'd uair juggling and the like.
Something else that I've realized is really good is the retreating fair. This is a SH fair DIing backwards (moving backwards while performing a SH fair). When fighting a character that requires you to do a lot of spacing (and/or your opponent who spaces a lot), it is extremely helpful. You will be quite surprised as to how big of a hit-box is actually attached to Doc's fair.
I'd also like to say that reverse-capeing needs to be used a bit more. It saved me more than a handful of times, and at APEX I caped things I've never caped before (including fully charged Samus' blasts which if it weren't for that I wouldn't have made it to bracket). Reverse-capeing (if I'm not mistaken) also really does reverse bombs + missiles back to your opponent, instead of regular capeing which would make them explode in your face (correct me if I'm wrong). Also, reverse-capeing in place with your back towards your opponent is a mind-game and will work at least once. I've had Peach players with stitch-faced turnips in their hands throw it at me thinking it'd hit me, but they were wrong because the positioning for the hit-boxes when you reverse-cape opposed to regular capeing is switched up (in other words, they thought the hit-box towards the back of my cape was gone, so they threw the turnip. Then they ended up being hit by the turnip. Since prior to throwing it their mind already jumped to a conclusion that the turnip would hit me, they didn't have fast enough reflexes to dodge their own turnip and got wrecked.)
By the way memorizing Randall the clouds timings on Yoshi's Story saves lives.
Something else that I've realized is really good is the retreating fair. This is a SH fair DIing backwards (moving backwards while performing a SH fair). When fighting a character that requires you to do a lot of spacing (and/or your opponent who spaces a lot), it is extremely helpful. You will be quite surprised as to how big of a hit-box is actually attached to Doc's fair.
I'd also like to say that reverse-capeing needs to be used a bit more. It saved me more than a handful of times, and at APEX I caped things I've never caped before (including fully charged Samus' blasts which if it weren't for that I wouldn't have made it to bracket). Reverse-capeing (if I'm not mistaken) also really does reverse bombs + missiles back to your opponent, instead of regular capeing which would make them explode in your face (correct me if I'm wrong). Also, reverse-capeing in place with your back towards your opponent is a mind-game and will work at least once. I've had Peach players with stitch-faced turnips in their hands throw it at me thinking it'd hit me, but they were wrong because the positioning for the hit-boxes when you reverse-cape opposed to regular capeing is switched up (in other words, they thought the hit-box towards the back of my cape was gone, so they threw the turnip. Then they ended up being hit by the turnip. Since prior to throwing it their mind already jumped to a conclusion that the turnip would hit me, they didn't have fast enough reflexes to dodge their own turnip and got wrecked.)
By the way memorizing Randall the clouds timings on Yoshi's Story saves lives.
VGmasta
Smash Lord
Good stuff, SmashMac. I have to agree with alot of what you just said up there.
SH retreating f-air = ****! SH f-airs are great for calling out your opponent's roll-ins. They also work against all the attacks where the hitboxes are really low. Some examples include: Marth's d-tilt, Doc/Mario's d-smash and dash attack, Peach's d-smash (I think this requires special timing and spacing though; sometimes I still get hit by the d-smash even when I call it out with a SH f-air). SH fairs are also good for calling out spotdodges.
And spacing the cape is AMAZING in certain matchups. It's a great defensive move. I use it against Falcon's spaced n-airs, and Ganon's spaced f-airs.
And a lot of Falcons that I play against like to use that gay raptor boost (side-B) when they're trapped by the edge. But if you can ever call it out, cape it and you'll get a free stock and a BIG laugh
.Oh and spacing the cape in Doc dittos = awesome defense!
Timing the cloud in Yoshi Story can save lives. All you gotta do is remember this formula:
Out on the right side at 55, 35, and 15. Out on the left side at 45, 25, 05.
So for example for those who don't know: the cloud would be coming out on the left when there's is 6 minutes and 5 seconds (6:05) left on the clock.
I think the specifics are SmashMac's Doc guide.
And if the timer ain't on, try to pay attention to that random elephant walkin' around the background in his draws. The cloud comes out everytime the elephant goes behind the bushes.
Ahh, Doc's such an amazing character! Why on earth would anyone ever quit Dr. Mario for any other character?!
*Folds arms in front and looks over at them West coast Docs (Shroomed and Bob Money)*
If that's what makes you happy at the end of the day, do it.
Don't let anybody try to guilt trip you when you are paying your money for your tournaments.
otg
Smash Master
waffles quit doc too no?
VGmasta
Smash Lord
I was just waitin' on Dogy to come in here with that whole "don't let 'em guilt talk you out of it" theme, lol.
Shroomed
Smash Master
i'll jus keep playin doc and work on my sheik/peach on the down low
im gonna become an expert at sheik dittos
and peach is for like....i dont even know
im gonna become an expert at sheik dittos
and peach is for like....i dont even know
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
use Peach for Peach dittos :D
last I asked him 'bout it, he said he wanted to try other characters for a bit. Dunno if that specifically is a yes or a not, but I imagine it's really a no.
-Draws a hand of logic answers-
...
"Your money, your choices"
... Pass.
"Do what makes you keep playing the game."
... Too good. Pass.
"One trick ponys"
... Hmm, that's an interesting one
-plays-
Man, I'm sorry I'm not really tied down to this logic of "Oh I started with this character, and people know me for this character, therefore I must sink or swim with this character."
If people wanna step to other characters, good. Who knows, somebody might go off and be a real ness or be THE NEXT BIG THING. I can only imagine what would have happened if, OH I DUNNO, SMASHMAC STAYED ON FALCO INSTEAD OF SWITCHING TO DOC.
It happens.
funfact: only reason I even posted was cause I stole the Kim gif from somebody on Melty Bread, and I wanted a reason to post my sig. ^_^
VGmasta
Smash Lord
Yea, I'm not tied down to that logic either, otherwise I'd still be maining Mario.
Heart Break Kid
Smash Lord
Im def entering the Doc side tourny at Rom. Sup to my people here SmashMac/Dogy/HMW...and I guess OTG. Nah seriously you **** though
otg
Smash Master
I'm hurt hbk.
All Doc side tourney...
... only if it was all FD
... and I was allowed to have this song playing on a stereo system behind the tv
... and the designated commentator was the And1 commentator (I forget the dude's name)
... and then we have a follow-up 2v2 crew-battle pickup tourney. Top 2 docs can be the captains.
... and there is a strict no-shirts off policy.
... only if it was all FD
... and I was allowed to have this song playing on a stereo system behind the tv
... and the designated commentator was the And1 commentator (I forget the dude's name)
... and then we have a follow-up 2v2 crew-battle pickup tourney. Top 2 docs can be the captains.
... and there is a strict no-shirts off policy.
Ocean
Smash Master
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- Nov 19, 2007
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- 3,810
- Slippi.gg
- OCEAN#0
Mahone
Smash Champion
doc is too good, how can i put a dent in him with puff?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwiBeD3K21c
I tried the puff boards, but all they said was bair more and i was hoping you guys could give better advice, thanks in advance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwiBeD3K21c
I tried the puff boards, but all they said was bair more and i was hoping you guys could give better advice, thanks in advance.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
*cliffnotes*
I watched bits and pieces of the vid, and at any point I clicked, you were having jiggs' main problem in the matchup.
He throws pills, and you want to be in the air, so you go higher. As you throw aerials (for whatever reason, you really don't have any unless he's spacing poorly), he picks you off and chips away. The key in that is you don't REALLY need to be throwing aerials as you move around the pills until he goes in.
The other route you didnt try (which will be annoying at first but it's something you have to work on) is trying to go below the pills.
In short, it's a horrible matchup because it's a whole bunch of doc putting you where he wants you and picking away, and your b.air (along with everything else) really turns into a liablity if you go around swinging mindlessly like "all jiggs do" *laughs hysterically*
SmashMac
Smash Lord
HBK what's good man.
After I get out of this temporary poverty I should start saving to go to ROM3. I'd like to go ^^.
After I get out of this temporary poverty I should start saving to go to ROM3. I'd like to go ^^.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Don't DI the Fair if you're a floaty, Sheik, or Marth.