Legend of Zelda Do you think that OoT is the 'greastest game ever'?

[SkylerOcon]

No, the Madden series is lazy for reasons that go deeper than a lack of change in graphics. The Madden series is lazy because there's very little innovation in gameplay - the mechanics, puzzles, dungeons, and tons of other stuff in MM were completely different than OoT. I wouldn't say MM was lazy at all - if you already have good graphics and a great physics engine from a game that's, you know, a prequel to the one you're creating, why make new graphics or physics?

 

[The Good Doctor]

No, the Madden series is lazy for reasons that go deeper than a lack of change in graphics. The Madden series is lazy because there's very little innovation in gameplay - the mechanics, puzzles, dungeons, and tons of other stuff in MM were completely different than OoT. I wouldn't say MM was lazy at all - if you already have good graphics and a great physics engine from a game that's, you know, a prequel to the one you're creating, why make new graphics or physics?

You could at least make new models, or update the ones that already exist. The updating would not take too much time, but I don't know much about how they would go about it.

It doesnt really matter, but you guys denying the obvious is bewildering me.

 

[Spire]

Or how Unreal Tournament 3 used some of Gears of War's character models as bases. Or how Brawl borrowed models from a ton of other games for trophies rather than creating original trophy models as they did in Melee (which was awesome). It's lazy, but in order to squeeze out one more N64 Zelda game, they had to, and it proved worthwhile.

 

[SkylerOcon]

You could at least make new models, or update the ones that already exist. The updating would not take too much time, but I don't know much about how they would go about it.

It doesnt really matter, but you guys denying the obvious is bewildering me.

But why make something new when what you have serves its purpose? I'm all for re-inventing the wheel if it could improve the wheel, but in this case there was nothing to improve.

 

[The Good Doctor]

But why make something new when what you have serves its purpose? I'm all for re-inventing the wheel if it could improve the wheel, but in this case there was nothing to improve.

the numerous graphical glitches beg to differ.
Also comparing how Brawl used ripped models is a silly argument.

 

[Spire]

Somebody get me the silver gauntlets so I can move this troll out of the way. Oh wait a minute..

 

[etecoon]

if they made new models that would...kind of ruin the entire point of the game

spire SS is completely different from MM, dunno why you keep reiterating that SS is somehow going to replace MM...LA is the most comparable game in the series if any

I don't like bandwagons in general but I also have to be happy that MM has gained more popularity, WW and TP both tried to be OoT 2 and failed, while pretty much ignoring everything good that MM had done. so if MM gets more popular and sells pretty well on VC, then maybe nintendo will re-examine what made it so good

though SS finally seems to actually be trying to be original again, TP was maybe the most creatively bankrupt game in the series and I think it was a wake up call for them. as well as taking more influence from other games in the series not named OoT, I see a lot of 2D zelda sensibility in it

 

[The Good Doctor]

So making the game look more visually appealing would "ruin the game"?
Not necessarily new models, but they could have made the existing models look better and iron out the graphical problems.

So I'm a troll for expecting Nintendo to not repeat their mistakes?

 

[kupo15]

It's called being lazy as ****.

In some cases maybe but imo not here. If a physic engine is absolutely perfect then what is the point in changing it? I would prefer if the physics engine in the 64 games were used for every zelda game since then because I feel that the amount of control and precision the gamer had has been unmatched since. If anything they could fix the bugs but a lot of people enjoy exploiting those including myself.

You could at least make new models, or update the ones that already exist. The updating would not take too much time, but I don't know much about how they would go about it.

It doesnt really matter, but you guys denying the obvious is bewildering me.

It may not take that much time but how about space? MM had to keep track of close to 50 NPCs and their specific 3 day cycle pattern which included different things to say and behave depending. There was a lot more time dependent things in MM that programming in multiple outcomes I'm sure took up a lot of space.

For how little memory Nintendo had to work with, I think them creating a whole new Zelda experience even with so much borrowed is far from lazy in comparison to the Zelda's of today.

So I'm a troll for expecting Nintendo to not repeat their mistakes?

It just seems like your not trying to see our viewpoint.

 

[Luigitoilet]

They did change a bit of the animations in MM. The textures are also a little more improved since they had the Expansion Pak support.

Aside from that, The Good Doctor is right but seriously who cares? MM is a beautiful game regardless of perceived laziness. Was Nirvana a horrible group because most of their songs are retardedly easy to play? I don't think so. I would rather have MM with its similar resources to OoT than have to wait a few more years for it, and risk not having Wind Waker made.

 

[Spire]

@etecoon: I compare SS to MM because both are extreme mold-breaking games as compared to their immediate console predecessors (TP and OoT). I'd compare SS to AoL as well but hell, that **** is just too old.

 

[lordvaati]

Seriously. I keep seeing this ‘greatest game ever’ thing being used here and there and I don’t understand why. Having played a ton of Zelda’s nothing from OoT really stands out other than its welcomed difficulty and the occasional utter confusion. Thoughts?

the major reason is because OOT is the highest reviewd game of all time(with like 98.7 overall), and all of the people who saw it thought, wow, the best game ever? I have to tel everyone!

also, the game just being awesome helped it out too.

 

[etecoon]

They did change a bit of the animations in MM. The textures are also a little more improved since they had the Expansion Pak support.

Aside from that, The Good Doctor is right but seriously who cares? MM is a beautiful game regardless of perceived laziness. Was Nirvana a horrible group because most of their songs are retardedly easy to play? I don't think so. I would rather have MM with its similar resources to OoT than have to wait a few more years for it, and risk not having Wind Waker made.

MM was also made the way it was as a result of being a rushed product, if they said "next game is on gamecube, 3-4 year timetable", maybe MM doesn't get made and we just have a longer development cycle on wind waker(which it could've used but that's beside the point). under the circumstances the game came out exceptionally well

I also think that creating something with such a limit can actually be very liberating. if you know you have a lot of time you second guess every decision you make, it's easy to fall into a trap like TP where you're thinking "what do the fans want"(OoT REPEAT GO) rather than using your own creativity. I do something similar myself, being a music composer I frequently subjugate myself to a one hour time limit to finish a song, sometimes you get good results from impromptu methods






next day edit: where I really really have to agree that MM has developed an obnoxious bandwagon is the creepypasta. I'm looking for MM art on DA right now and HALF OF IT IS BAD BEN DRAWINGS UGHUGHUGHUHGASUIGUIHAGUI

I liked jadusables videos but this is really annoying

 

[T-block]

I'm back to whine about this game some more.

That part in the Stone Temple where you HAVE to get caught by the Dexihand to reach the chest with the key. That's just bull**** design. These are not the kinds of "puzzles" I want to solve -_- That's what I mean when I say some of the challenges in this game are just stupid. I can't think of any spots on OoT that were like this?

 

[kupo15]

I honestly don't see how that is a terrible puzzle. I think its extremely clever and interesting.

 

[etecoon]

I don't see how it's unreasonable either, you have a clear action that comes about as a result of your actions, you can predict its outcome after seeing it. you approach it, it picks you up and throws you back in the same direction

TMC is the only zelda that's really made me think "bull **** design!" when I reached a point where none of the NPCs would tell me wtf I was supposed to be doing. I wandered around the whole world talking to everyone and trying things and eventually just quit. I'm sure if the original LoZ were to come out today I'd find it frustrating though, I had a lot more patience as a child...

 

[kupo15]

True. Everyone had more patience as a kid. It seems that the game industry is geared towards making games with instant results and rewards for no reason. Instant gratification and interactive movie games suck.

Thought I did revisit LoZ last year for the first time since my childhood and had a lot of fun with it. I never really got past dungeon 1 or 2 and barely got anything as a kid but I figured out where just about all the secrets were. LoZ is amazing for being able to tell the gamer where the secrets are without marking a red X on them. I just knew for the most part where on the wall to bomb. This is good programming.

Its too bad that the arcade style games are fading out and dev are afraid to put anything remotely challenging in games out of fear to scare of weak gamers.

 

[MuraRengan]

Best game ever status is reserved for MM.

There's no way to really deny that devs were lazy with MM's character models (if one chooses to interpret it that way) but in the bigger picture, MM has lots more amazingness that dwarfed that minor issue.

 

[Spire]

Ehem, OoT 3D is perhaps the best game ever.

 

[The Good Doctor]

Ehem, OoT 3D is perhaps the best game ever.

That would make you, for lack of a better word stupid.
B/c you obviously have only played a handful of games ever made, yet you bestow such an honor on that game.

After you play every single last game, stop spouting nonsense.

 

[Luigitoilet]

Stop trolling, TRG.

Anyways, OoT3D is at least the definitive version of Ocarina. I suppose if you think Ocarina is the best game ever then you might as well switch your choice to OoT3D

 

[etecoon]

I heard they fixed a lot of the glitches, speed runners won't consider it the definitive version

I'd want OoT 3D but I otherwise have zero interest in a 3DS, so that isn't happening :/

 

[MuraRengan]

I heard they fixed a lot of the glitches, speed runners won't consider it the definitive version

I'd want OoT 3D but I otherwise have zero interest in a 3DS, so that isn't happening :/

Even after all the great titles shown at E3? Imo, 3DS is looking promising.

Anyways, I'm getting one solely for OoT.

 

[etecoon]

all I remember was kid icarus(looks kind of annoying tbh) and mario kart...

 

[MuraRengan]

Luigi's Mansion 2

And MGS
And Starfox
And Smash

Oh well, to each his own

 

[etecoon]

LM2 should be legit, forgot that

starfox and MGS are remakes, buying a system solely for remakes = no thanks

I don't trust smash 4 to actually turn out well after brawl

 

[Luigitoilet]

there are lots of games I'm really stoked for.

Luigi's Mansion 2
Starfox (never played 64)
Megaman Legends 3
Resident Evil Revelations
Resident Evil Mercenaries
Super Mario
Mario Kart
SSB4 (I love all SSB games. Brawl is probably my favorite)
Kid Icarus looks stupid except the multiplayer which looks awesome
Ghost Recon Shadow Wars is a really good launch game

that's not bad at all for a system that basically just came out.

 

[Spire]

That would make you, for lack of a better word stupid.
B/c you obviously have only played a handful of games ever made, yet you bestow such an honor on that game.

After you play every single last game, stop spouting nonsense.

Wow, I don't know where your animosity comes from, but calm down.

Seeing as how OoT is currently the highest rated game ever, that would make it the "best", wouldn't it? And seeing as how the 3D version is just a straight up better gaming experience, it can be seen as the very best. Makes enough sense.

Yeah, just go ahead and assume I've only played a handful of games ever made so you can continue your reign of inaccuracy and misconstruation.

 

[Luigitoilet]

uh I'm pretty sure he's trolling and you are falling for it.

 

[MuraRengan]

LM2 should be legit, forgot that

starfox and MGS are remakes, buying a system solely for remakes = no thanks

I don't trust smash 4 to actually turn out well after brawl

Yet your only interest is OoT 3D....

Well, I guess there's added incentive for me to get Starfox and MGS because I haven't played either of them.

I'm not exactly looking forward to Smash 4 as a competitive fighter either, but despite how much I hate Brawl as a competitive game, it's still fun casually.

I forgot to mention the Super Mario coming out. But yeah, everything LT mentioned = Ton of good games to look forward to with this system.

Speaking of which, between time of this and my last post I bought OoT 3D. Still no 3ds though lol.

 

[etecoon]

OoT3D is my main interest in the 3DS and...I'm not buying it. don't see how that contradicts at all

would definitely get it if I had a 3DS, but it isn't itself a reason to buy a new system, I already have 2 copies of OoT -_-

 

[kupo15]

Serious question. What makes OOT3D better than N64? From vids it just seems like better graphics, more control options and worse animations. Link's movement animations just look weird.

 

[Luigitoilet]

The touchscreen menus is something that cannot be understated. It makes the game so much faster and more exciting when you can equip four items in 1.5 seconds.

The gyroscope aiming is another thing that makes the game a lot more fast-paced and thrilling. I never liked the joystick aiming and I'm so glad to have a better, more quick and responsive way of aiming.

The graphics aren't just "better", they used the better technology to make a MUCH more detailed world. Almost every wall in the game is filled with tiny little details, from Malon's bedroom to the most obscure nooks and crannies of the dungeons. This feels much more like a living culture and world than the original game did by far.

I like the animation personally so I can't really refute that. Though, I will say that it is occasionally TOO smooth. If you don't do it precisely, Link takes a good second to turn around in the direct opposite direction. In the N64 game, he would just "snap" to whichever way you put the joystick. Here, it's the same, but it's a lot more finicky and most of the time Link actually walks/runs in a small circle to turn around. It looks better but it feels a little sluggish in my experience.

That's not to mention the more difficult Master Quest being a part of the game, and boss rush mode.

 

[Spire]

What LT said.

Hyrule is so much more cultured this time around, nearly as much as it was in Twilight Princess.

 

[kupo15]

Oh ok. And I can imagine the Item selection would be amazing

Well the boss rush mode sounds like lazy programming so I wouldn't even care to play it. Is it basically beating all the bosses in a row within a time limit?

And when you say the harder MQ is included, do you mean that the MQ3D is harder than MQ64 or that the MQ is harder than OOT? I personally find that OOT is harder than MQ actually

 

[Luigitoilet]

Oh ok. And I can imagine the Item selection would be amazing

Well the boss rush mode sounds like lazy programming so I wouldn't even care to play it. Is it basically beating all the bosses in a row within a time limit?

And when you say the harder MQ is included, do you mean that the MQ3D is harder than MQ64 or that the MQ is harder than OOT? I personally find that OOT is harder than MQ actually

Well, I'm not far enough yet (you gotta beat the vanilla version first) but according to sources the entire game world is mirrored TP style, and there are added enemies with more health/do more damage. I haven't played the original MQ either so I couldn't really say for sure, but it sounds like it would be harder just on that basis.

 

[Spire]

I've played through the original MQ and given what we know about MQ3D, it is pretty much twice as hard. The MQ dungeons remain the same, but the enemy damage multiplier and mirroring are going to make it even more difficult. I'm excited.

 

[Alzi]

Oot 3D basically adds flavour and taste on top of what the original Oot gave us on 64.

 

[JesiahTEG]

ffvii baby

 

[felipe_9595]

do I seriously see someone saying that people only consider MM better than OoT because it's "a bandwagon"

really?

Final Fantasy 7 might be the single most bandwagoned game of all time, this is an absurd angle to take

Fixed xDDDD

I think Alttp is fart better than OoT. OoT Is a good game, but Alttp is just epic.