IT DOESN'T MATTER, lol. The point was to tell him to gtfo, and it worked, so you can drop it now >: (
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DMG's Wario Guide Stuff Blah Stuff
- Thread starter DMG
- Start date
gameandwatch 4 Lyfe
Smash Journeyman
ok so yesterday i played stnapknah like 6 times ddd vs wario (again i do NOT main ddd), and i won every time. keep in mind when i use my mains, kirby, zss, we go close to even he probably wins more often. i might have lost once but about half the time i two stocked him, the other half were pretty close. we played on brinstar (a great wario stage, yes?) and i two stocked him. we didnt play norfair cuz i feel that wario does have an advantage there, but looking back, i might have been able to win there too.
i really dont see the advantage here, i read all the stuff you guys said about the matchup, but in practice it didnt seem to work at all. waddle spam was actually kind of effective, the occassional gordo really seemed to screw with him hopping around. also ddd's utilt beat out warios dair approach EVERY TIME. so did bair when i needed it. it also wasnt so difficult to grab him (for a minimum of 35 damage). i mean come on ddd can grab people halfway across FD... im sorry if im repeating stuff people have already said but you guys have way too much bias in discussing this matchup imo.
EDIT: it didnt work
i really dont see the advantage here, i read all the stuff you guys said about the matchup, but in practice it didnt seem to work at all. waddle spam was actually kind of effective, the occassional gordo really seemed to screw with him hopping around. also ddd's utilt beat out warios dair approach EVERY TIME. so did bair when i needed it. it also wasnt so difficult to grab him (for a minimum of 35 damage). i mean come on ddd can grab people halfway across FD... im sorry if im repeating stuff people have already said but you guys have way too much bias in discussing this matchup imo.
EDIT: it didnt work
DMG, did you get a hold of JoWii? He says we can pick you up <3
And yeah, the only part of Waddle Dee spam that might **** anything up is the Gordo, b/c it travels reaaaaaaly slow and bounces. Also, if it wasn't hard for you to grab him, he was doing it wrong. The more mature post is appreciated. We'll keep editing the matchup as we see fit. For the moment the D3s haven't really found an effective way around us aircamping (those of us that know how to do it), so we have the ratio as that.
And yeah, the only part of Waddle Dee spam that might **** anything up is the Gordo, b/c it travels reaaaaaaly slow and bounces. Also, if it wasn't hard for you to grab him, he was doing it wrong. The more mature post is appreciated. We'll keep editing the matchup as we see fit. For the moment the D3s haven't really found an effective way around us aircamping (those of us that know how to do it), so we have the ratio as that.
stnapknah
Smash Journeyman
Ya exactly. I don't know how to do it which is why it would be nice if someone got a video of it up.
I think I can do it. I 'd like to try playing you if thats alright.
gameandwatch 4 Lyfe
Smash Journeyman
pm me whenever. im free basically any time
Popertop
Smash Champion
You can't deal with arrows as a Wario main? Must be DOIN IT WRONG.
Okay, maybe that was harsh, but srsly.
Using the airdodge is important.
Just don't get frustrated, that's important.
Utilizing Wario's strengths in the matchup is important too.
So you need to go for gimps when you can.
To gimp a pit is really hard, but doable. Footstools help here.
Learn to anticipate where they will recover and be ready to stomp on their head.
Of course this makes them WoI away, where you can Nair or Fair them to their doom.
Stupid mistakes off the edge will get you gimped with Bair.
The good part is Pit will get gimped to if he's stupid.
Touch him, touch him alot. Grabs can build a lot of damage if they don't react fast enough.
Here is how you do it: Dthrow, watch what they do. Next time, punish them for it.
Edge play is tricky because of Pit's annoying(how fitting) priority. Don't get discouraged.
Great fart timing helps alot. If pit tries to glide, you can just fart on him for a kill.
And don't forget, if he fsmashes, he can Dsmash right away, and vice versa. Risky to punish.
Mainly, airdoge through arrows, and wait until they make a mistake, then combo/kill.
Even good pits (Kown) will get frustrated with numerous airdodges, just make the most of it.
How do you think kown and esca compare?You can't deal with arrows as a Wario main? Must be DOIN IT WRONG.
Okay, maybe that was harsh, but srsly.
Using the airdodge is important.
Just don't get frustrated, that's important.
Utilizing Wario's strengths in the matchup is important too.
So you need to go for gimps when you can.
To gimp a pit is really hard, but doable. Footstools help here.
Learn to anticipate where they will recover and be ready to stomp on their head.
Of course this makes them WoI away, where you can Nair or Fair them to their doom.
Stupid mistakes off the edge will get you gimped with Bair.
The good part is Pit will get gimped to if he's stupid.
Touch him, touch him alot. Grabs can build a lot of damage if they don't react fast enough.
Here is how you do it: Dthrow, watch what they do. Next time, punish them for it.
Edge play is tricky because of Pit's annoying(how fitting) priority. Don't get discouraged.
Great fart timing helps alot. If pit tries to glide, you can just fart on him for a kill.
And don't forget, if he fsmashes, he can Dsmash right away, and vice versa. Risky to punish.
Mainly, airdoge through arrows, and wait until they make a mistake, then combo/kill.
Even good pits (Kown) will get frustrated with numerous airdodges, just make the most of it.
Yea, it wasn't the air that was the problem, it was the ground. As soon as the match started, or whenever I touched the ground, he would spam arrows. It's funny, I used to be decent with Wario before I went on smashboards because I taught myself everything, and now, I am starting to play badly because I think I'm trying to copy to many people's styles at once intstead of just using my own. Hopefully you know what I'm talking about.You can't deal with arrows as a Wario main? Must be DOIN IT WRONG.
Okay, maybe that was harsh, but srsly.
Using the airdodge is important.
Just don't get frustrated, that's important.
Utilizing Wario's strengths in the matchup is important too.
So you need to go for gimps when you can.
To gimp a pit is really hard, but doable. Footstools help here.
Learn to anticipate where they will recover and be ready to stomp on their head.
Of course this makes them WoI away, where you can Nair or Fair them to their doom.
Stupid mistakes off the edge will get you gimped with Bair.
The good part is Pit will get gimped to if he's stupid.
Touch him, touch him alot. Grabs can build a lot of damage if they don't react fast enough.
Here is how you do it: Dthrow, watch what they do. Next time, punish them for it.
Edge play is tricky because of Pit's annoying(how fitting) priority. Don't get discouraged.
Great fart timing helps alot. If pit tries to glide, you can just fart on him for a kill.
And don't forget, if he fsmashes, he can Dsmash right away, and vice versa. Risky to punish.
Mainly, airdoge through arrows, and wait until they make a mistake, then combo/kill.
Even good pits (Kown) will get frustrated with numerous airdodges, just make the most of it.
Side note, Down grab to ftilt on marth is nice. I don't know if they can di out of it, but i just played a marth and hit them consistently with it.
They can just shield it, or up b before landing. Up-angled ftilt is sexy as hell against Marths though, at any time.
You have to develop your own playstyle with Wario, just take advice with a grain of salt, and incorporate it into your gameplay. Don't try to copy others or anything like that. I think I'm the only Wario player that will actually use less-than-half-wafts on purpose in given situations, as an example. Also, why are his arrows a problem? He can't shoot them fast enough to hit your airdodges, and you shouldn't be on the ground anyway.
You have to develop your own playstyle with Wario, just take advice with a grain of salt, and incorporate it into your gameplay. Don't try to copy others or anything like that. I think I'm the only Wario player that will actually use less-than-half-wafts on purpose in given situations, as an example. Also, why are his arrows a problem? He can't shoot them fast enough to hit your airdodges, and you shouldn't be on the ground anyway.
Arrows are a problem because I've never played pit before. I've only started to play people on wifi like 5 days ago, everything else has been with friends at home, but now i'm in college and no one here plays. Also, I'm not as good as you guys, let alone know my matchups as well as you guys, so I'm going blind playing online. I've been losing constantly with wario, and I've incorporated new stuff in my game, that I haven't before and I still get beat. I'm not trying to copy other people, but I don't feel like i will improve if I don't. My other problem is I start off strong and and finish weak, and I don't know why. Idk, sorry for the mini rant, but I've pretty much lost every set I've played. I just can't ****ing win and it's getting really frustrating. While I do appreciate any advice, pointing out the obvious, like learn your matchups, doesn't help me, so i'll get that one out of the way 
.
.
stnapknah
Smash Journeyman
Try to be smarter and more patient. Also, don't forget to mix it up. If you're finishing weak, it means they can easily predict you or that you're getting sloppy. Try playing a slower pace game and wait for your openings. You'll easily start winning against bad/decent players if you wait for them to mess up. For example, rather than jumping in there and spamming f-smash 12 (exaggeration) times, just wait for them to mess up their spacing or for the right opening.Arrows are a problem because I've never played pit before. I've only started to play people on wifi like 5 days ago, everything else has been with friends at home, but now i'm in college and no one here plays. Also, I'm not as good as you guys, let alone know my matchups as well as you guys, so I'm going blind playing online. I've been losing constantly with wario, and I've incorporated new stuff in my game, that I haven't before and I still get beat. I'm not trying to copy other people, but I don't feel like i will improve if I don't. My other problem is I start off strong and and finish weak, and I don't know why. Idk, sorry for the mini rant, but I've pretty much lost every set I've played. I just can't ****ing win and it's getting really frustrating. While I do appreciate any advice, pointing out the obvious, like learn your matchups, doesn't help me, so i'll get that one out of the way
You can't expect to magically start winning. Even if it is just WiFi, there are people that have been playing the game since before the it was even released in the US. These will all have some form of Wario experience and understand the game better than you, most likely. Pit's arrows or spam from anyone will be a huge deterrent on WiFi no matter WHAT character you play, b/c dodging and powershielding is completely crippled due to delay. Wario is also not a very good character for WiFi. If all you really care about is winning, go play a simplistic character with strong, quick, abusable attacks, like Snake, Olimar, or Wolf.Arrows are a problem because I've never played pit before. I've only started to play people on wifi like 5 days ago, everything else has been with friends at home, but now i'm in college and no one here plays. Also, I'm not as good as you guys, let alone know my matchups as well as you guys, so I'm going blind playing online. I've been losing constantly with wario, and I've incorporated new stuff in my game, that I haven't before and I still get beat. I'm not trying to copy other people, but I don't feel like i will improve if I don't. My other problem is I start off strong and and finish weak, and I don't know why. Idk, sorry for the mini rant, but I've pretty much lost every set I've played. I just can't ****ing win and it's getting really frustrating. While I do appreciate any advice, pointing out the obvious, like learn your matchups, doesn't help me, so i'll get that one out of the way
If you want to actually learn a character that is difficulot to master and excel with, stick with Wario.
The rest of the stuff just sounds like mental issues you need to work out for yourself, imo. You won't start winning until you've lost enough to notice and correct your mistakes. Oh, and watching videos and seeing what's effective and then using that is not a bad idea, odds are almost any person good with their character uses the same strategy, b/c it works.
I suppose I think I'm playing smart, but I think I really need to reevaluate this game. I guess I am being too predictable too, but I don't really know what else to do, considering the main things I do are shnairs, shdairs, bite, jab, and grabs. And the fart, but I use that mostly for kills, but if it starts flashing, I don't because people see it coming. I like using it as recovery when it flashes as a last resort because people dont expect it. I don't really use kill moves enough either. I think I need to watch for fsmash opportunities. Also, I have a terrible habbit of using downsmash. I need to get out of that phase XD
My new goal. Play the slowest and most patient match possible for a while.
My new goal. Play the slowest and most patient match possible for a while.
I never said I was expecting to win every match, I just didn't think I would lose almost every match. It's sort of that realization where you think your good and then someone puts you in your place. That's what's happening atm. Also, I didn't want to seem like I'm playing wario to win, I'm playing him because I have fun with him and I want to get better.
That tends to happen when you play with friends and you are the best among your group 
When I first started I could not beat Snakes or spammy MKs for the life of me, and now, after a boatload of losses they're generally easy for me, lol.
When I first started I could not beat Snakes or spammy MKs for the life of me, and now, after a boatload of losses they're generally easy for me, lol.haha, yea, since playing my friends, I do pretty well against spanimals, D3, snake, PT, mario, and luigi. However, when I played online, everyone was either marth or ike, so i'm not used to being out prioritized. How do you usually approach sword fighters?That tends to happen when you play with friends and you are the best among your group
Airdodgeing or running shields. Marth is pretty much instant loss with Wario if they're good on WiFi. Weave to bait out Ike's attacks, his only quick moves are his nair, his jab, and his backair.
Dynomite
Smash Champion
May i ask if this is a good list of chars in tournament play?
Wario- main- OMNOMNOMNOM OVER 9000!... nuf said.
Marth- 2nd - marth was my first main picking up and i know way too much with him to give em up.
PT-3rd- its alwase good to have a < mid tier char
D3- 4th mainly for snakes
i do know how to use these chars, most poeple would tell me taht i have too many chars and its good to have only 1.. i disagree. im alwase open to new chars. its like a new game for me every time.. fun never ends..
if anyone thinks that i should pick up another char PLEASE tell me and why..
PLEASE NOTE- i am asking this to improve my wario game. and if i come across a bad match up for wario i have a good reliable char.
also.. last tournament i went to i got 3 stocked by a fox with my wario, any advice?
Wario- main- OMNOMNOMNOM OVER 9000!... nuf said.
Marth- 2nd - marth was my first main picking up and i know way too much with him to give em up.
PT-3rd- its alwase good to have a < mid tier char
D3- 4th mainly for snakes
i do know how to use these chars, most poeple would tell me taht i have too many chars and its good to have only 1.. i disagree. im alwase open to new chars. its like a new game for me every time.. fun never ends..
if anyone thinks that i should pick up another char PLEASE tell me and why..
PLEASE NOTE- i am asking this to improve my wario game. and if i come across a bad match up for wario i have a good reliable char.
also.. last tournament i went to i got 3 stocked by a fox with my wario, any advice?
MorphedChaos
Smash Lord
For wafts, Most of the time I get my kills by using half wafts, but if I let one get fully charged, I'll bait htem into using a Dair, then waft through that and kill them on the way up. People only fall for it once, but hey, once is all you need.
Popertop
Smash Champion
looks liek errybody missed the joke and took my advice all srs like.
I mean, it was serious advice.... nvm.
Kown spams more arrows, and he knows Bair better.
Better long range arrow control too. He can gimp with Mirror shield it's crazy.
Esca is more close range. More spot dodge, and more grabs. I think more mirror shield just to super armor attacks sometimes.
Better short range arrow control. Knows Wario better obviously.
But yeah all that stuff is sound advice on that matchup, I am very experience and practiced dealing with Pits.
Pwneroni
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2008
- Messages
- 1,065
you dont need that many characters, as wario doesnt have any terrible matchups. just stick to wario and marth maybe, because if you have a ton of secondaries that you want to use in tournament, most likely they will be underdeveloped. you definitely dont need to use pit or DDD, because wario goes even with snake and you can just play pit for fun.
i went through the same thing, i wanted to main everybody on the roster at one time or another. i started with wario, and after the grab release was discovered i dropped him, but after months of bad tourney placings i went back to him and *****. wario owns, and you dont need a secondary to counterpick.
Dynomite
Smash Champion
hmm u sound ALOT like my friend. he used wario before i did and he quit because of grab relise. grab relise doesnt bother me much along with MKs.. i hate fighting snakes tho. everyone has their bad/hated match ups.. snake happones to be mine. and honestly i dont mind having many characters.. sometimes i fell like its not enough
EXAMPLE: ive been paired up with Kismet2 for 2 tournaments in a row before.. and i cant use wario because he trains with reflex alot and his wario is
and i cant use PT because of reflex again.. i hate the D3 and falco match up.. and he like 3rds marth or somehting (from what ive heared) >.> but i dont have a prob learning characters..my best bet is prob marth tho
RWB
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2006
- Messages
- 969
Personally, I use Wario and then I have DK as a secondary- although I'm contemplating throwing in Marth somehow.
At this point, I'm probably better with DK than Wario though.
Not that it matters much- I'm not a tourney goer, it's just too expensive for me.
At this point, I'm probably better with DK than Wario though.
Not that it matters much- I'm not a tourney goer, it's just too expensive for me.
YagamiDark
Smash Journeyman
I have the same combination.
Not too great though - DeDeDe likes this.
But with this camping thing, it should become better.
Not too great though - DeDeDe likes this.
But with this camping thing, it should become better.
stnapknah
Smash Journeyman
i really like the new pics that you put up recently since you said you were going to put them up, DMG.
*destroys you*
*destroys you*
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but...
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=172830&page=115
Ya. Sorry Warios. >_<
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=172830&page=115
Ya. Sorry Warios. >_<
You're telling us to care about a frame perfect infinite that relies on there being no platforms in our vicinity... and that involves us getting grabbed to begin with? -_-
It's hard enough for ZSS to get her infinite off on us, and she can set it up with a Dsmash, lol.
Ussi
Smash Legend
jab > grab lol go Ike
This barely works for Peach with her ridiculous jab, why would it work for you? -_- Not to mention we'll already be spacing you guys liek crazy b/c of your super big sw0rd, making you landing jabs even less likely, and then there's the fact that you need to pummel for damage, which gives us chances to ground break.jab > grab lol go Ike
Need me to point out more problems?
stnapknah
Smash Journeyman
PX for President.
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
Ike's 1st jab has crazy hitstun on it (for Brawl that is). Enough that it's nearly a perfect combo from Jab -> grab (actually is a perfect combo unless you jump), and is a perfect combo from jab1 -> jab 1, meaning that if we are worried about Wario attempting to avoid the grab, we can just use jab->jab->grab to hopefully stop an attempt to escape jab -> grab.
As well, Nair -> Jab is a perfect combo. Combined with the fact it comes out frame 3 and Wario's limited range, it's fairly doable. Even if we don't pull it off all the way to death, it can rack up some serious damage. Which obviously is bad.
And actually it's not frame perfect, we have 1 frame of freedom. XD (and the fact Wario has to be frame perfect on his end to dodge if we mess up by only a couple of frames) We just thought we'd give you guys the heads-up of another infinity.
As well, Nair -> Jab is a perfect combo. Combined with the fact it comes out frame 3 and Wario's limited range, it's fairly doable. Even if we don't pull it off all the way to death, it can rack up some serious damage. Which obviously is bad.
And actually it's not frame perfect, we have 1 frame of freedom. XD (and the fact Wario has to be frame perfect on his end to dodge if we mess up by only a couple of frames) We just thought we'd give you guys the heads-up of another infinity.
Well, thanks. I just assume now that everyone can infinite Wario, it doesn't really make any difference to me, lol.
Next time I go to San Antonio we'll play and we can test how viable this is in person, so practice it, lol.
Next time I go to San Antonio we'll play and we can test how viable this is in person, so practice it, lol.
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
Are you kidding Phantom?
I suck at frame perfect stuff. I can barely pull off Ike's DACIT in an actual match. >_>
I suck at frame perfect stuff. I can barely pull off Ike's DACIT in an actual match. >_>
PKNintendo
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,679
Im skeptical and who cares? Do you honestly think this will help the matchup? Like at all? Grabbing Wario is nonsense, grabbing a camping Wario is LOL.
The infinite seems difficult to pull off, and if I had my Wii, I'd test it out.
And please Ike main, don't pull that baloney. ''hate to be the bearer of bad news''
Every board says this crap. If Ness had an infinite on Wario, I would post the **** topic without remorse. (like it do him anygood...)
The infinite seems difficult to pull off, and if I had my Wii, I'd test it out.
And please Ike main, don't pull that baloney. ''hate to be the bearer of bad news''
Every board says this crap. If Ness had an infinite on Wario, I would post the **** topic without remorse. (like it do him anygood...)
I'm assuming you're good enough to do a jab > grab, right? If you can grab me and I'm not saved by a platform, we'll assume you killed me with this infinite
MorphedChaos
Smash Lord
lol, I did that with my buddy who thought DK was good vs D3.
The only infinite that might ever do anything to us is ZSS. since she can set that up.
The only infinite that might ever do anything to us is ZSS. since she can set that up.
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
@PK: My laptop was about to run out of power. I couldn't think of something less stupid to say besides just posting the link. >_> It will help the match marginally. Not much, but a little bit. Nobody is perfect, it can happen in a match.
@Phantom: I'm up for that. I suck, but I'm up for that. MM I'm assuming? We'll decide how much when we find out the next time we will be playing each other. I don't have a job, so I can't afford to put down money before hand....and I'm not going to the next Gamelot monthly either.
@Phantom: I'm up for that. I suck, but I'm up for that. MM I'm assuming? We'll decide how much when we find out the next time we will be playing each other. I don't have a job, so I can't afford to put down money before hand....and I'm not going to the next Gamelot monthly either.