I'd say it's very slight in MKs favor b/c there's always a threat of being gimped.
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DMG's Wario Guide Stuff Blah Stuff
- Thread starter DMG
- Start date
Popertop
Smash Champion
Meta can space Wario, it's 40-60 against Wario IMO
MorphedChaos
Smash Lord
MK can't gimp Wario all that well though, Airdodge through is Fair or Nair, then bike, he can't knock you off the bike with Bair or Fair, and your too fast to get hit by his Nair again. He also has terrible aerial speed, and MK will have to fight Wario in the air, since Wario can camp MK.
He can knock you off your bike by hitting you. And you can space MK better than he can space you, actually, plus, assuming you're careful, you can kill him sooner too. Your grabs also **** him. He wins slightly b/c of counterpick abuse and the fact that he's one of the few characters that can actually gimp Wario.
Dairs and Claps and Fthrows all day against MK to rack up damage, then finish with a fresh Fsmash, Ftilt (love hitting through nado with this), or Waft.
Dairs and Claps and Fthrows all day against MK to rack up damage, then finish with a fresh Fsmash, Ftilt (love hitting through nado with this), or Waft.
Popertop
Smash Champion
Meta can gimp Wario.
If you aren't smart.
But can still do it, and trick you into doing it.
And I save Fthrow for the kill.
Uthrow and try to get moar Uairs in.
If you aren't smart.
But can still do it, and trick you into doing it.
And I save Fthrow for the kill.
Uthrow and try to get moar Uairs in.
Fthrow isn't really a good killer, even fresh.
Popertop
Smash Champion
kills Meta at 120
I didn't say it was, but I save it just incase.
Actually nevermind. You aren't going to get many grabs with Meta's that space right.
XD
120 at the edge, I assume? I get plenty of grabs on most characters, such as Watch and MK, but since you can't really do anything out of dthrow to mk, and upthrow just sets them up to start spamming nairs and dairs, I fair to space and for the 13%. Puts you that much closer to a kill.
MorphedChaos
Smash Lord
Fsmash through his Fair, I do it all the time for kills, and I've done it so much I know the timing >.>
stnapknah
Smash Journeyman
Nice updates DMG, but falco supposedly ***** at jungle japes... i'd stay away from that level just to be safe.
Phantom is right, too. Against the higher tiers (g&w, mk) you're better off camping which means wait for the approach and bite/grab or intercept their approach with some claps. That's practically all you can do against them. Good thing it works XD
edit: also, i'm really starting to think the DDD matchup is at worst 35-65 and leaning towards 40-60... either it's really not that bad or i'm playing terrible DDDs lol
Phantom is right, too. Against the higher tiers (g&w, mk) you're better off camping which means wait for the approach and bite/grab or intercept their approach with some claps. That's practically all you can do against them. Good thing it works XD
edit: also, i'm really starting to think the DDD matchup is at worst 35-65 and leaning towards 40-60... either it's really not that bad or i'm playing terrible DDDs lol
It's actually closer to 55:45 in D3s favor, at best a 60:40 because he outlasts us primarily.
He's another of those characters that you want to get a lead on and force to approach. He has the slowest air speed in the game, and his only quick aerial is his Bair which you shouldn't get hit by anyway if you're not approaching him. If he's grounded and trying to approach, bite him for a reset, if he approaches you in the air, poke the hell out of him with fairs, his fair is way too slow to keep up. If you get him offstage, proceed to wreck.
Marth is the real hellish matchup.
He's another of those characters that you want to get a lead on and force to approach. He has the slowest air speed in the game, and his only quick aerial is his Bair which you shouldn't get hit by anyway if you're not approaching him. If he's grounded and trying to approach, bite him for a reset, if he approaches you in the air, poke the hell out of him with fairs, his fair is way too slow to keep up. If you get him offstage, proceed to wreck.
Marth is the real hellish matchup.
Dedede sucks vs Wario, u get even a 1% lead and GG you win.
We're talking about actually fighting them. If we were talking about camping every non projectile character for every round we'd have 90:10 against them, lol.
Well **** maybe we need to put his matchups at that lol. I mean it technically is accurate.
As for Japes vs Falco, you do very well on that stage. That is one of my new CP stages along with Brinstar and RC that are really gay for Wario lol. Falco is like 70-30 against Wario there, super hard for him to win.
stnapknah
Smash Journeyman
True, but you have to watch out for his spike. You'll shoot right through the water. Playing very smart/careful helps avoid this but it's still risky to cp this when you know he has the spike.
If the Falco wants he can sit in the middle platform for all of 7:50 and then either shoot you to win, or to get you to approach into a CG. Japes is NOT a good stage. If you want to camp Falco take him somwhere where he can CG you, get him up to higher than you, then start avoiding all his crap.
You can SDI the spike towards either the middle stage or towards an outer platform and tech. You can stall on the stage, waft him anytime he lands in the water, clap him when he is above the water and force him to get hit or airdodge into the water, etc. It's really good for Wario, took me awhile to realize that.
stnapknah
Smash Journeyman
alright well then why didn't you say so... that's the kind of shi* you should be including in the guide lol
If they do the spike correctly you can't SDI to save yourself from it... there's other crazy **** Wario can do though... dair for example stage spikes through the platforms if they get hit while below them XD
stnapknah
Smash Journeyman
When are you going to replace the pics lol
Dude, I still don't know. I will do a few of them by Monday though.
Peach 50-50? That's ridiculous. Peach has an advantage. You cannot effectively air camp Peach because she can throw a barrage of turnips upwards and up tilt beats anything Wario has attacking below him. Her back air floating approach also makes it extremely hard to abuse Wario's air control because she can float, it's what tip the scales of this matchup into her advantage. There are good wario players out there who can beat people that easily 2 stock me, but I go toe to toe with the wario. That shows how much of an edge she has.
After playing that El Paso Peach player, I have to agree with Edrees. Her fair also reaches above her and beats out our dair, it's pretty annoying. She probably has slight advantage for the fact that head to head she beats out Wario, add to that a (albeit unreliable against us) projectile, that can possibly gimp us, and a grab release + float game, and we get a rough match. Not much to worry about though b/c no one really plays Peach at a super high level, but I'd give it to her 60:40 at least. She feels tougher for me than MKs to be honest... and I've played good Peaches on three different occasions.
Turnips have still never been a factor for me, though... I'm sure Wario could aircamp her fine (given space and good platform layout), it would just be a little more of a nuisance to get over her when attempting that (she has pretty ugly vertical range).
Turnips have still never been a factor for me, though... I'm sure Wario could aircamp her fine (given space and good platform layout), it would just be a little more of a nuisance to get over her when attempting that (she has pretty ugly vertical range).
Yeah, I think we should too. We need to get someone of Edrees' level to vs Fiction or DMG or something, see how that goes, in order to come to a decisive conclusion.
stnapknah
Smash Journeyman
I told you guys peach was hard lol
Anyway, futile used to beat edreeses, but, then again, futile was the best. I guess we should have a match like Phantom said.
Anyway, futile used to beat edreeses, but, then again, futile was the best. I guess we should have a match like Phantom said.
Futile also didn't camp her to my knowledge, or not to a near maximum degree.
But yes, me vs Edrees would be awesome, we could play on Hanenbow, he can use her "La la la laa la laaa!" taunt over and over and I can spam epic win with Wario too lol.
Or maybe a serious set. That would be good too :0
Serious sets are overrated. Go play a 2/3 on the original Mario Bros. stage, winner has matchup advantage.
And yeah, this matchup will depend on how effective aircamping is against her. In a head on conflict I'd give it to her 60:40.
And yeah, this matchup will depend on how effective aircamping is against her. In a head on conflict I'd give it to her 60:40.
AndrewCarlson
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2008
- Messages
- 367
Interesting updates. So now Marth is officially Wario's worst match-up and his only hard counter now that Dedede is no longer a threat?
We're not even sure if he's a HARD counter, to be honest. I don't even know if Wario has any, now that he can just aircamp most of his older, harder ones :\ Marth is def. one of our hardest, though (I still think he's THE hardest).
AndrewCarlson
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2008
- Messages
- 367
It's quite astonishing to see Dedede go from 30:70 to as much as 60:40 in Wario's favor just because of his ability to air-camp. But given Dedede's incredibly slow air speed versus Wario's, I can see why.
I don't believe it's effective against Marth (he has the 8th fastest air speed verus Wario's 3rd). Either way, Marth still has other tools to push this match-up in the 65:35-70:30 range in my opinion depending on stage pick.
I don't believe it's effective against Marth (he has the 8th fastest air speed verus Wario's 3rd). Either way, Marth still has other tools to push this match-up in the 65:35-70:30 range in my opinion depending on stage pick.
We can't aircamp Marth (he's fast enough to catch us in the ground/air and has quick attacks), but the more we play the matchup the more we notice that we've overrated Marth's strengths/abilities in the matchup as well. He'll always be advantaged, but even Emblem Lord doesn't think it's by much, and he will pwn you with his knowledge if you disagree! Also, we can kill Marth at less than 120, and I oftentimes find myself living against them til the very late 100s.
AndrewCarlson
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2008
- Messages
- 367
I don't know about now, but Emblem Lord seemed to have different thoughts a few months ago.
MorphedChaos
Smash Lord
Marth isn't too bad, its just scary if the Marth is a counter beast like me, I can counter almost everything, but then I'm a more defensive Marth XD.
Marth's sword is the trouble I have, but his release to Usmash I THINK can be EIDI'ed away from.
Marth's sword is the trouble I have, but his release to Usmash I THINK can be EIDI'ed away from.
Timbers
check me out
you are ********, good bye
Just TRY To abuse counter against me... I'll make you rue the day the thought crossed your mind :\
Also, EIDI only has to do with ground breaks, so you're wrong.
chimpact
Smash Lord
DDD has the disadvantage vs Wario??????????
Depends on the stage. It goes slight advantage either way depending on the level and layout.