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DMG's Wario Guide Stuff Blah Stuff
- Thread starter DMG
- Start date
So the Falco matchup is back to 40-60 huh? I agree that he does good at everything but killing you (well, and recovering) but how does a Falco consistently kill you after chaingrab to spike? I can only remember outright dying after a CG once, and I felt that was mostly because I screwed up. I was under the impression that with double jump and bike jump it's pretty easy getting back after being spiked, and getting around his edgeguarding?
It's not an issue of how hard it is to kill Wario, but rather how hard it is to approach Falco safely. He can literally sit there, wait for you to approach, and reasonably counter it or reset the situation.
Yeah I know, it's a pain. It's just that in the description you say like: he has a hard time killing, except if he get's a CG to spike. I was wondering if the spike really that deadly for Wario, as I usually survive it. But the people around here are Wario ignorant, so they probably suck at doing it.
It can be a pain, they can spike, dj back on to the stage easy, and try to chase you off stage with even a weak bair when you are biking. I always usually had to DI away from the stage, DJ backwards, bike and then bike jump with more DI movements and then towards the stage.
As for regular killing, yeah he has a somewhat hard time, but he can kill you with Usmash and Fsmash if you aren't careful.
I think DMG is just in a funk right now b/c he didn't place as high as he wanted at HOBO yet again :\ Wario's always been a "pain" to play b/c of his lack of range, but he has assets that make up for it in leaps and bounds.
No but seriously, I've looked over half of his matchups again and it's just seems like too many of my experiences I got lucky that my opponent wasn't fully aware of what Wario can do. Think about it though, Dedede hard counters him, Yoshi can be gay, Marth is a pain, Shiek is hard to win against too, and you still have problems with MK, Luigi, Falco, ZSS, etc. I mean yeah Wario is good and all but not good enough to justify that position anymore on the tier list IMO. IDK how a character that can be infinited/grab released/zoned by so many characters is placed higher than Diddy lol. <_<
Also I did test the Dedede thing out, it is inescapable, and he is now obviously back to being the worst.
And I truly want to be optimistic, but cmon we know Wario gets gayed pretty bad by enough people to warrant a drop.
I give you DDD and Marth. Sheik isn't that bad unless they can set up that footstool combo infinite thing and that isn't very easy to do and is much easier to mess up than given infinites...
I really don't see the issue with Falco... he gets free 50% and then you pretty much wail on him aside from lasers. MK should be a nonfactor because he beats everyone. ZSS is only gay if you don't use plats to your advantage. Wotts is very good and he could do very little to me on BField. She also dies at like 90 and you can live to the late 150s with good DI (even from Dsmash > bair). If you don't fsmash on shield and don't always move forward with your dodges you are very difficult to punish by anyone that can't attack very quickly in midair.
Diddy is going to move up soon but that's b/c he's still a bit overrated atm (in my opinion). He's great for comboing but once people learn his banana game he's much easier to shut down. You just need to be more careful with what you do. You predict people amazingly well but you don't always pick the best option at a given time (i.e. fsmash royr on shield a bunch rather than biting or grabbing). If Wario was as bad as you say he is, Futile and Fiction wouldn't be placing well in Cali... and Futile would always lose to DSF, who is amazing AND plays top tiers and knows all the abusable stuff.
I really don't see the issue with Falco... he gets free 50% and then you pretty much wail on him aside from lasers. MK should be a nonfactor because he beats everyone. ZSS is only gay if you don't use plats to your advantage. Wotts is very good and he could do very little to me on BField. She also dies at like 90 and you can live to the late 150s with good DI (even from Dsmash > bair). If you don't fsmash on shield and don't always move forward with your dodges you are very difficult to punish by anyone that can't attack very quickly in midair.
Diddy is going to move up soon but that's b/c he's still a bit overrated atm (in my opinion). He's great for comboing but once people learn his banana game he's much easier to shut down. You just need to be more careful with what you do. You predict people amazingly well but you don't always pick the best option at a given time (i.e. fsmash royr on shield a bunch rather than biting or grabbing). If Wario was as bad as you say he is, Futile and Fiction wouldn't be placing well in Cali... and Futile would always lose to DSF, who is amazing AND plays top tiers and knows all the abusable stuff.
It still ***** though.
Falco is hard to approach, especially on BF. Dear lord I hate that stage vs Falco now lol. For ZSS, All she needs is one Dsmash to get you into a grab and then she can just grab release you into Dsmash into Grab and etc. Her Uair is also really good at killing, that works faster than Bair IIRC. Same for Side B.
I've yet to see DSF do the pivot grab on Wario, but who knows.
Ryan-K
Smash Master
This is what I have been saying since like september, and everyone yelled at me LMAO
also since I have been away for a while and the boards are dead as in most of the threads are dead
1) who can wario dthrow chain and is it infinite or whats the general percent range
2) why does sheik **** him so bad? i assume some dumb grab release stuff
also diddy really is good, he doesn't need to combo since he keeps constant control of the match with his bananas and his speed. its hard to hit diddy in general since bananas restrict where you can land or take off from
I think Wario vs MK = 45:55 MKs favour.
I tried to use Wario more lately and I don't think it's that bad. Just spam fsmash, it really works. You can knock him out of every move - just bait it via insane aerial movement and wait for it to come. Uair is your main finisher. I think it works pretty well.
I tried to use Wario more lately and I don't think it's that bad. Just spam fsmash, it really works. You can knock him out of every move - just bait it via insane aerial movement and wait for it to come. Uair is your main finisher. I think it works pretty well.
PKNintendo
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,679
EditL
Ness gets' gayed ten times. Worse, oh and 60-40 Plox.
escape has been found for the grab release fsmash. If not 60-40, more like 62-38 XD
kown
Smash Lord
I am convinced that Pits best dubz partner is wario....not sure about the reverse tho
Lol, his matchups went from being hard countered by 4 characters back to 2 again.
I suspect the last list was mostly dmg having the bleus. I mean, yoshi a hard counter? I saw your matches against Bwett and either you're much better than him or the matchup isn't so bad for Wario.
I suspect the last list was mostly dmg having the bleus. I mean, yoshi a hard counter? I saw your matches against Bwett and either you're much better than him or the matchup isn't so bad for Wario.
The matchup is in Yoshi's favor, but he's not a hard counter by any means.
PKNintendo
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,679
Ness was changed... Cool.
Anway, you got your game back on. Seriously, some of those old matchups we're WTF.
Anway, you got your game back on. Seriously, some of those old matchups we're WTF.
danielreece2
Smash Cadet
ok...
if i second Donkey Kong, and third Olimar, are all my matches covered, or am i missing something?
i want to second DK but DDD would **** me everytime, so im picking up Oli for a third. i find him really easy to play anyway, so thats cool.
if i second Donkey Kong, and third Olimar, are all my matches covered, or am i missing something?
i want to second DK but DDD would **** me everytime, so im picking up Oli for a third. i find him really easy to play anyway, so thats cool.
BMX
Smash Lord
u gotta be careful on who u pick dude DK,olimar and wario all share common weaknesses: falco metaslut G&W. all these guys can have the edge on ur picks.its not impossible to win with ur counters, its gonna be real tough to get that win.
Popertop
Smash Champion
shiek just has frame advantage.
her moves come out a frame or two faster than Wario's, and she's really fast on the ground.
*shrug*
I'll just go Meta against Shiek now anyways.
But once you learn Diddy he's really not that bad.
You can space the banana's and take control of the match if you slow down the pace.
and then that in itself is a whole other level of the banana game.
Anyways, my real reason for this post is that I wanna discuss the Wario Snake matchup.
Everything we have and everything they have.
I just lost to Raniji after he learned the matchup, and I wanna beast him next time we play.
Also Bowser is amazing.
When did you play him? I played him at HOBO and did fine vs him (Idk if he knew about grab release to Utilt or Nair, but I rarely got grabbed anyways.)
Popertop
Smash Champion
I played him at LasT 2 (louisiana tourney) after he learned the matchup (IIRC you beat him at HOBO 12 so he learned it).
He camped hardcore and I got frustrated and made more mistakes, and I got really nervous in the last stock of our last match and SD'd for no reason.
I'm pretty sure I could beat him if I was at the top of my game and learned a bit more about the matchup (and used my farts well).
But yeah he's gotten a lot better since you played him (at least vs Wario. Take 2 stocked him their second match, it was gross. I thought I was watching RoyR)
If they camp a lot you just need to play really patient. Don't start charging in w/ dairs or doing anything you don't need to. They nade and shield ***** you just wack up and bthrow or upthrow.... once they're airborne, have your way with them.
Popertop
Smash Champion
yeah, next time I'm gonna get controller port priority.
PKNintendo
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,679
No more downthrow>Fsmash
Anyway, anyone have tips against G&W. He's really troublesome lately, and part of the reason I picked up Wario was because I needed a secondary that could deal with that freak. Help?
Anyway, anyone have tips against G&W. He's really troublesome lately, and part of the reason I picked up Wario was because I needed a secondary that could deal with that freak. Help?
Space? You can make it **** near impossible for him to kill you with Wario, b/c you can get out of range of all his kill moves pretty easily. This matchup is all about spacing out of smash range, grabbing, and SDI-ing out of his attacks.
PKNintendo
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,679
Thanks. I noticed that proper waft usage helped.
3GOD
Smash Ace
Against G&W, you have to play EXTREMELY campy. G&W's moves are ridiculously good, but you have better control than he does. I hate this match-up because you have to be very patient and very campy. It's pretty close to even if played correctly.
Some_Kind_of_JokÈ?
Smash Apprentice
how do i approach a Snake... lol it sounds nooby but i just cant do it xD
and everytime i hit him hes still in range for a Ftilt at low %s -__-
and everytime i hit him hes still in range for a Ftilt at low %s -__-
PKNintendo
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,679
I've noticed that thanks. I haven't magically gotten 1000X better, but your tips helped guys.
I played a G&W yesterday. I shield a lot of his aerials and then I nair out of my shield because I know I can't shield grab him if G&W spaces correctly. I also use this technique against Metaknight, it works effectively.
Also, I think Battlefield is a good stage to go up against a G&W because of the platforms. If you bait a G&W to dair from above onto a platform, just uair or fart them.
If you don't play on a stage with platforms like FD or Smashville, I anticipate the dair and spot dodge then f-smash.
Do a lot of air-dodging too if G&W keeps spamming bair to get behind him and f-smash, grab, etc.
MorphedChaos
Smash Lord
I noticed you have nothing up for D3, just saying its a very hard fight. Want me to write a summery? D# and Wario are my mains, trying to get good with DK, and I know people hate to hear it, but MK is my secondary >.>
Popertop
Smash Champion
How is the luigi matchup even?
It just is IMO, I dunno how to explain it, but it feels like if I know in general what they will do that I can reasonably avoid it or punish lag on his moves. Also feels like I can just wait for him when he is forced to recover and punish him heavily.
Popertop
Smash Champion
:|
He has all teh priorities.
He has all teh priorities.
MorphedChaos
Smash Lord
Mostly with D3 he'll either approach with ground moves or areals, or try to dash or SC grab you. Or they will throw Waddle Dees at you and force you to approach. DO NOT approach a D3, otherwise they will shield and shield grab you. You can eat the waddles and the doos, so that means he will have to approach you, then you can punish him when he gets close. You have to fight defensivly until you get him off the stage, then you can use your areal DI to beat him and keep him off. (D3 has THE WORST areal DI in the game, so just keep him off.) Once he uses his Up B, he'll most likely go for the ledge, Grab him if you can, and just do a grab release with no pummels like with snake, D3 wont be able to recover. Either that or punish his Up B, as its very predictable, remember it has super armor though on the way up.
And he might throw a gordo sometimes instead of waddles, theses you need to Sidestep or areal dodge.
The whole point of this match, DO NOT GET GRABBED, so stay in the air when your on the attack, his areals, while some are quick, are actually quite laggy besides his Bair, that one you need to attack from the top with Dairs or Nairs, Fair has bad winddown lag so you can punish him, Dair and Uair are direcly above and below, and if he lands with them, they have terrible ending lag, worse then landing with your Bair. Attack from the sides if you can. Nair is like yours, so you know what it does.
If you can grab D3, get him off the stage and keep him there, get rid of his jumps, and he will be very uncomfortable.
The Bair is his leg up besides his throws and Ftilt, if he does a SH one, you can Shield Grab the tip of his foot just like DKs. His Ftilt is something that'll give you a problem, but you should have enough time to Fair him when he does it.
If he grabs you, he'll CG you until he can do release to USmash or Utilt, so watch out for this.
Question, DMG, can't wario do a Fair to jump to FF to cancel momentum? Like MK can do Uair to jump to FF, and D3 can do Bair to jump to FF? or no?
And he might throw a gordo sometimes instead of waddles, theses you need to Sidestep or areal dodge.
The whole point of this match, DO NOT GET GRABBED, so stay in the air when your on the attack, his areals, while some are quick, are actually quite laggy besides his Bair, that one you need to attack from the top with Dairs or Nairs, Fair has bad winddown lag so you can punish him, Dair and Uair are direcly above and below, and if he lands with them, they have terrible ending lag, worse then landing with your Bair. Attack from the sides if you can. Nair is like yours, so you know what it does.
If you can grab D3, get him off the stage and keep him there, get rid of his jumps, and he will be very uncomfortable.
The Bair is his leg up besides his throws and Ftilt, if he does a SH one, you can Shield Grab the tip of his foot just like DKs. His Ftilt is something that'll give you a problem, but you should have enough time to Fair him when he does it.
If he grabs you, he'll CG you until he can do release to USmash or Utilt, so watch out for this.
Question, DMG, can't wario do a Fair to jump to FF to cancel momentum? Like MK can do Uair to jump to FF, and D3 can do Bair to jump to FF? or no?
As long as you've got that amazing aerial movement, you might wanna end up behind him.
Luigi matchup isn't even, but it's not as overwhelmingly in his favor as we used to think. It's probably like 60:40 for him or something.
Also, you don't want to really go through the D3, if they're quick enough they'll either pivot grab you before you can get away or turn around grab you, it's safer to just retreat the way you came. If they're facing you they can really do nothing about it.
Also, you don't want to really go through the D3, if they're quick enough they'll either pivot grab you before you can get away or turn around grab you, it's safer to just retreat the way you came. If they're facing you they can really do nothing about it.
Snowstalker
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2008
- Messages
- 813
You people STILL think that Yoshi is even? It's been established that Dino has a 65:35 advantage for a while.
I think I'll go cry now.
I think I'll go cry now.