• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

Status
Not open for further replies.

Cutie Gwen

Lovely warrior
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
64,429
Location
Somewhere out there on this big blue marble
BRO ITS NOT EVEN OUT YET HOW COULD YOU MAKE THAT ASSUMPTION

Also, we'd have to see how the game sells compared to the third party Switch exclusives we have.

Mario & Rabbids (At least I think it's 3rd party idk)
Monster Hunter Rise is doing pretty good too, seeing about 6.3M units as of April 2021
To be fair it's not a stretch to say it's one of the biggest third party Switch titles, Microsoft considered it major enough competition as seen in the data the Epic VS Apple lawsuit as official documents mention it. Rise is massive but it won't stay an exclusive
 

Willbuysmash4mw

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 22, 2021
Messages
295
Can we get any evidence for this? Any at all?

And if you're going to say "Byleth was a filler character" or something like that, that's not evidence. That's plugging up the holes in a theory with no evidence with another theory with no evidence.
Three Houses and SMT V were supposed to come out much earlier. I don’t get how you don’t realize this.

And I have already told you who the extra character in the first pass is. With Nahobino in Smash there is no reason for Joker because SMT characters can easily come with Persona stuff but not the other way around.

With SMT V and Three Houses coming out earlier the entire release schedule for pass 1 changes.
 
Last edited:

SMAASH! Puppy

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
14,056
Location
Snake Man's stage from Metal Blade Solid
It's been one heated debate after another recently, so I hope this doesn't just get buried or anything (and hopefully sparks some not emotionally charged discussions). My latest Challenger Pack concept is for Elma. Originally, I referred to the character concept as Team Elma, but Cross and Lin aren't as persistent as other "assistant" characters like Kazooie, Luma, Mythra, or the other Ice Climber, so I ended up changing my mind; just Elma will suffice.


I would like to make at least one more than this (maybe two, but I'll cross that bridge when I get there) to have 2 complete passes of ideas. Dunno who the next one will be for yet, but I'm still working on being a functional human being, so probably not going to come out at the same pace as the ones since before my last hiatus. Even Elma's took a little longer than I wanted, though that was for other reasons as well.

What was I trying to say here? Um...I would like to make 1-2 more of these, but I might only make one for a few different reasons. Probably will be someone we don't normally talk about due to the few different options I have in my head.
 
Last edited:

Rie Sonomura

fly octo fly
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
19,724
NNID
RieSonomura
Switch FC
SW-4976-7649-4666
If anything, Demi-fiend is way more likely to me than Nahobino.

Or **** it, give us Jack Frost

inb4 its just Violet from P5R and her codename is "Jane" iykyk
I mean Second Chance Theory is a thing for pass 2 no?
Min Min, Pyra/Mythra = ARMS and XC2 were too late for the base roster plan, decided to give both games a second chance
Steve = the five year thing, bargaining chip for Banjo and Kazooie
Sephiroth = FFVII lacked content in base, he was the fixer
Kazuya = Sakurai wanted Heihachi in 4, complexities in implementing at the time, in the end Kazuya is a cooler Heihachi with Devil powers

if the Jane thing holds up Violet could get in on merit of that datamine
 

GilTheGreat19

Smash Master
Joined
May 19, 2021
Messages
3,380
Microsoft considered it major enough competition as seen in the data the Epic VS Apple lawsuit as official documents mention it.
Hmm, I actually didn't know that, thanks for pointing this out.

Then again, I never cared enough to follow the Epic vs Apple lawsuit to even follow it. (Minus the basics and what Epic did)

and regarding Rise, I recall HEARING it might stop being an exclusive, so if what I heard ends up coming true, I wouldn't be surprised.
 

Theguy123

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 1, 2020
Messages
1,265
Three Houses and SMT V were supposed to come out much earlier. I don’t get how you don’t realize this.

And I have already told you who the extra character in the first pass is. With Nahobino in Smash there is no reason for Joker because SMT characters can easily come with Persona stuff but not the other way around.

With SMT V and Three Houses coming out earlier the entire release schedule for pass 1 changes.
by that logic I could say that the professor Layton and the curious village game and lost future were meant to be coming to the Switch last year and because of their current situation they’ve been shelved to coincide with professor Layton being the last fighter when level 5 are in a better situation.

that logic makes no sense and if you wanna go down that root then that can be applied to any company that’s got a game currently delayed, shelved or has been delayed.

once again no evidence
 

Cutie Gwen

Lovely warrior
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
64,429
Location
Somewhere out there on this big blue marble
Hmm, I actually didn't know that, thanks for pointing this out.

Then again, I never cared enough to follow the Epic vs Apple lawsuit to even follow it. (Minus the basics and what Epic did)

and regarding Rise, I recall HEARING it might stop being an exclusive, so if what I heard ends up coming true, I wouldn't be surprised.
That came from the Capcom megaleak from like November which leaked Great Ace Attorney Chronicles, available now for 39.99
 

Sucumbio

Smash Chachacha
Moderator
Writing Team
Joined
Oct 7, 2008
Messages
8,448
Location
wahwahweewah
I mean Second Chance Theory is a thing for pass 2 no?
Min Min, Pyra/Mythra = ARMS and XC2 were too late for the base roster plan, decided to give both games a second chance
Steve = the five year thing, bargaining chip for Banjo and Kazooie
Sephiroth = FFVII lacked content in base, he was the fixer
Kazuya = Sakurai wanted Heihachi in 4, complexities in implementing at the time, in the end Kazuya is a cooler Heihachi with Devil powers

if the Jane thing holds up Violet could get in on merit of that datamine
What's Jane and violet? /Lazyignorantslob
 

Rie Sonomura

fly octo fly
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
19,724
NNID
RieSonomura
Switch FC
SW-4976-7649-4666
It's been one heated debate after another recently, so I hope this doesn't just get buried or anything (and hopefully sparks some not emotionally charged discussions). My latest Challenger Pack concept is for Elma. Originally, I referred to the character concept as Team Elma, but Cross and Lin aren't as persistent as other "assistant" characters like Kazooie, Luma, Mythra, or the other Ice Climber, so I ended up changing my mind; just Elma will suffice.


I would like to make at least one more than this (maybe two, but I'll cross that bridge when I get there) to have 2 complete passes of ideas. Dunno who the next one will be for yet, but I'm still working on being a functional human being, so probably not going to come out at the same pace as the ones since before my last hiatus. Even Elma's took a little longer than I wanted, though that was for other reasons as well.

What was I trying to say here? Um...I would like to make 1-2 more of these, but I might only make one for a few different reasons. Probably will be someone we don't normally talk about due to the few different options I have in my head.
YOOOOOOOOOOOOO

always makes me happy to see some Elma love

although Elma would 100% have a True Form alt, albeit made more ESRB/CERO friendly due to the boob/butt windows

and excellent music selection, I’d only say it’s missing the Telethia theme (the name has a stealth spoiler though) and aBOreSSs (Prog Ares)
 

Rie Sonomura

fly octo fly
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
19,724
NNID
RieSonomura
Switch FC
SW-4976-7649-4666
What's Jane and violet? /Lazyignorantslob
K so

when the game came out and we knew joker was coming, dataminers found Brave as the next fighter’s codename, which pointed at Hero. They ALSO dig into Joker’s file (Joker was codenamed “Jack”) and found a file for a “Jane” with a ponytail rig or something. Violet, a new playable character in the updated port of Persona 5 subtitled “Royal” has a ponytail.
 

Willbuysmash4mw

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 22, 2021
Messages
295
BRO ITS NOT EVEN OUT YET HOW COULD YOU MAKE THAT ASSUMPTION

Also, we'd have to see how the game sells compared to the third party Switch exclusives we have.

Mario & Rabbids (At least I think it's 3rd party idk)
Monster Hunter Rise is doing pretty good too, seeing about 6.3M units as of April 2021
It’s not about the sales, it is about showing off the capabilities of the Switch and expanding Nintendo’s and Smash’s marketing demographic.

There are Switch owners today that either own no games for it or barely any games simply because they bought their Switch right when SMT V was shown off, it attracts a different demographic than anything else in the library.
 

GilTheGreat19

Smash Master
Joined
May 19, 2021
Messages
3,380
I mean Second Chance Theory is a thing for pass 2 no?
Min Min, Pyra/Mythra = ARMS and XC2 were too late for the base roster plan, decided to give both games a second chance
Steve = the five year thing, bargaining chip for Banjo and Kazooie
Sephiroth = FFVII lacked content in base, he was the fixer
Kazuya = Sakurai wanted Heihachi in 4, complexities in implementing at the time, in the end Kazuya is a cooler Heihachi with Devil powers

if the Jane thing holds up Violet could get in on merit of that datamine
Lots of games/characters, heck even companies could fit 2nd Chance Theory.
One super duper tin foil hat example I keep having is an Ubisoft character of some kind, Rayman to make up for POTENTIALLY previously failed deals and lack of more spirits for his series, or Ezio as a backup alternative to not being able to get Rayman.

Or maybe Cp11 is the oddball and doesn't fit the theory at all. This is in all seriousness a possibility.
 

Þe 1 → Way

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 12, 2020
Messages
2,514
Location
Wouldn’t You Like To Know?
GUYS, Nintendo made Smash Ultimate specifically to put Silent Hill in the game.

Pyramid Head was actually planned to be in Smash 4, but after the Konami Kojima thing happened Nintendo decided to make an entire new Smash game and then after that the Silent Hill game got delayed so they had to make the fighter passes to account for the release date of the new Silent Hill game (which will be Switch exclusive), and thus, Pyramid Head is CP11.

Perfect logic, hes in:troll:
 
Last edited:

Rie Sonomura

fly octo fly
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
19,724
NNID
RieSonomura
Switch FC
SW-4976-7649-4666
You know tho, back to X’s music

we also need the absolute NIGHTMARE FUEL of a song that is the Rexoskell theme cuz we need more scary **** in Smash

or maybe even the creepy ass “dangerous area” theme… listen to it in the dark with headphones
 

Rie Sonomura

fly octo fly
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
19,724
NNID
RieSonomura
Switch FC
SW-4976-7649-4666
Wasn't there temporary speculation that Jane could've also been Jill Valentine?
Correct me if I'm wrong.
I think some also said Lara Croft cuz of the ponytail

but that begs the question, they’re from different series than Joker so why would Jane be in Joker’s file if she was Jill or Lara?
 

SMAASH! Puppy

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
14,056
Location
Snake Man's stage from Metal Blade Solid
YOOOOOOOOOOOOO

always makes me happy to see some Elma love

although Elma would 100% have a True Form alt, albeit made more ESRB/CERO friendly due to the boob/butt windows

and excellent music selection, I’d only say it’s missing the Telethia theme (the name has a stealth spoiler though) and aBOreSSs (Prog Ares)

As for the song selection, aBOreSSs just barely didn't make the cut since I wanted the number of tracks to be semi-realistic, but it and the Telethia theme could probably replace the two that I said were probably not getting added.

Also, I just realized that I forgot to include song links, so...be right back.
 

GilTheGreat19

Smash Master
Joined
May 19, 2021
Messages
3,380
I think some also said Lara Croft cuz of the ponytail

but that begs the question, they’re from different series than Joker so why would Jane be in Joker’s file if she was Jill or Lara?
Um Rie
It's quite obvious
They have their own personas! :4pacman:

But for real, maybe it's a simple coding bug.
 
Last edited:

Rie Sonomura

fly octo fly
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
19,724
NNID
RieSonomura
Switch FC
SW-4976-7649-4666

As for the song selection, aBOreSSs just barely didn't make the cut since I wanted the number of tracks to be semi-realistic, but it and the Telethia theme could probably replace the two that I said were probably not getting added.

Also, I just realized that I forgot to include song links, so...be right back.
The Telethia song… even though part 1 is of the pre-final boss

the title spoils the true final boss’s identity

 

Willbuysmash4mw

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 22, 2021
Messages
295
To be fair it's not a stretch to say it's one of the biggest third party Switch titles, Microsoft considered it major enough competition as seen in the data the Epic VS Apple lawsuit as official documents mention it. Rise is massive but it won't stay an exclusive
We already know it is coming to PC next year.
by that logic I could say that the professor Layton and the curious village game and lost future were meant to be coming to the Switch last year and because of their current situation they’ve been shelved to coincide with professor Layton being the last fighter when level 5 are in a better situation.

that logic makes no sense and if you wanna go down that root then that can be applied to any company that’s got a game currently delayed, shelved or has been delayed.

once again no evidence
How do you get that out of what I said? At the time the 1st pass was decided Three Houses had a 2018 release date and SMT V was regularly being marketed before Atlus said they were having development problems in 2018.
We weren't going to get Persona and SMT content in the same pass. That's like if Kiryu and the guy from Judgement were both in the pads
Joker wouldn’t have come to Smash at all with Nahobino in pass 1.
 

MamaLuigi123456

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,400
Location
Realm 75731
I have given plenty of evidence.

And no, it is not ludicrous at all. Pass 2 was not supposed to exist. Steve, Sephiroth and Kazuya are timeless characters that could have been added to any future Smash game and Pyra and Min Min could have either been added to the base roster of the next Smash or left to be spirits forever and it would make no difference for Smash or Nintendo.

There is no reason for pass 2 to exist or to be the final pass unless there is a character in it that Nintendo desperately wants to reveal to finalize the dlc, and the only character that fits that is Nahobino.
Ignoring the problems with the idea that every character in Fighters Pass 2 up until the last character is worthless filler in and of itself, even in the ludicrous event that this is true, how are you so sure that Shin Megami Tensei V is the game they would go for? There's plenty of new games that are coming out this year. Hell, Pokemon Brilliant Diamond and Pokemon Shining Pearl are coming out in November, just like SMTV, so they could just as easily go for that instead. And it'd likely be a lot easier for them since Nintendo owns Pokemon.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

Flap and Swish~
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
34,515
Location
Cull Hazard
NNID
Irene4
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
Ignoring the problems with the idea that every character in Fighters Pass 2 up until the last character is worthless filler in and of itself, even in the ludicrous event that this is true, how are you so sure that Shin Megami Tensei V is the game they would go for? There's plenty of new games that are coming out this year. Hell, Pokemon Brilliant Diamond and Pokemon Shining Pearl are coming out in November, just like SMTV, so they could just as easily go for that instead. And it'd likely be a lot easier for them since Nintendo owns Pokemon.
Nintendo co-owns Pokemon, to be fair(Gamefreak and Creatures Inc. also co-own it). But it's still something they have partial ownership, so the point still stands even then. It's much easier to get than any regular third party, after all.
 

7NATOR

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
4,091
I have given plenty of evidence.

And no, it is not ludicrous at all. Pass 2 was not supposed to exist. Steve, Sephiroth and Kazuya are timeless characters that could have been added to any future Smash game and Pyra and Min Min could have either been added to the base roster of the next Smash or left to be spirits forever and it would make no difference for Smash or Nintendo.

There is no reason for pass 2 to exist or to be the final pass unless there is a character in it that Nintendo desperately wants to reveal to finalize the dlc, and the only character that fits that is Nahobino.
While I can see the Argument for Nahobino being the Final character in FP2, I find it a little hard to believe that this scenario will be what is coming to FP2, and I find it especially unlikely for it to be the Inspiration for FP2 even happening, when we have evidence that contradicts that idea

Tekken and Minecraft in particular were said to have been requests by Nintendo from the Man Sakurai himself. I know Sakurai also said that Nintendo chose the DLC, but there are certain characters that Nintendo mainly focused on Nintendo when it came to the decision to include the characters

The Major reason Nintendo and Microsoft got to talking about Smash, and also a reason Banjo was able to get in, were through discussions about Minecraft and it's presence on the Wii U, and considering that Talks for Steve in Smash were said to have taken 5 years before he got in, there were Smash talks as far back as that. Probably a Same deal with Tekken also

Theoretically these characters are big enough to be saved for a Future Smash game, but Sakurai has made it known that all the effort is going into this game, and I think it would be unwise if Nintendo delayed talks with these 3rd party companies for a Future Smash game, when they could get them in now. You never know how relationships can end up years from now, where maybe getting them into a future game is unfeasible

In terms of the idea of Shin Megami Tensi being the final character, Shin Megami Tensi V is a Switch Exclusive yes, and Nintendo is doing a good job showcasing the game in the Directs, but when it comes to making Nahobino Smash DLC, it's kind of a hard sell

-Shin Megami Tensi is not a Franchise with Broad appeal, it's a Niche one. It's not a bad thing to be Niche, but it is a harder Sell to consider Niche things as DLC, and they need other factors to be seen as viable idea

-If you are seeing Nahobino from a similar stance to Corrin and Byleth, unlike those characters, Nahobino is a 3rd party character, which means having to work with a External Company not owned/Associated with Nintendo, as well as the Licensing fees and such. It also doesn't help that in this case, Nahobino at most will come out as Smash DLC only 1 month after the game comes out (if he was revealed in December) which doesn't give enough time for many people to become familiar with the character

To be fair, to U.S and European Audiences, we weren't familiar with Corrin either, so that's a factor, but still something to consider

Another Main thing is that while Nintendo seems to be helping with Publishing the game, I don't think Nintendo has been funding the game like they did with Bayonetta 2 as an example. If this was the case with Shin Megami Tensi, the idea would be stronger, but there's nothing to suggest that Nintendo has any stake in the game like that

And even with Bayonetta, Bayonetta didn't get in to help promote Bayonetta 2, as Bayonetta 2 came out a year before Bayonetta was revealed, and the reason given for her inclusion wasn't for helping to promote I.P or game, but because she was a Popular Character, and the Ballot winner. Even if the evidence shows that the Ballot couldn't have been taken into account into her inclusion for real, considering that Bayonetta did have requests to be in the game even before, and that Bayonetta 2 did really well with Critics and Fans, Nintendo probably had good reason she go well with Fans

It just makes it harder to see Nahobino as this forgone conclusion, when a 3rd Party franchise Nintendo actually had stake in didn't get in for promotional reasons. Nahobino's case seems similar to something like Daemon x Machina, which Nintendo also published, and show good amount in the directs, and all that game got was Spirit events


-In terms of the appeal, besides a promotional one, there's not really anything that would be going in Nahobino's Favor in terms of Appeal when he was chosen, as he'd have no Fan Reception or legacy when we didn't even know much about the character at all, and his game hasn't come out. Shin Megami as stated is a Niche franchise at that, being even more Niche than Persona. It's not like it's Pokemon in terms of appeal, and with Pokemon, not only does Nintendo own 33% of the franchise, but that also was with the Base roster, not as DLC where the character themselves are the main selling point. At least if you included someone like Jack Frost or Demi-fiend, those are characters that have shown to have Fanbase and legacy.

-And to compound all of that, he'd seemingly would need alot of work to actually be implemented in Smash. As his game wouldn't have come out, when chosen they would either have to use Assets given by Atlus team (like Artwork or Design documents) to visualize the moveset, or they would have to play a Build of the game that showcases all the moves, and remember that since this is a 3rd party character, Sakurai and the team has to make sure every idea is approved by Atlus

And Assuming they Nahobino's Main thing would be the Demon summoning, that is good amount of Model's to create, good amount of animations to animate, and having to fit all of this into cohesive moveset. Multi characters like Ice Climbers were already said to be trouble in implementing into Ultimate, and was also a reason Rex had to sit out. It could perhaps work with Nahobino, but that's still alot of work to do for a character which if you look at the actual merits, is kind of a hard sell anyway for Nintendo to take the initiative


With all of this being said, I can still see the possibility of Nahobino being the final character. It's just a little hard to see though, and I definitely don't think it's a forgone conclusion, or even likely conclusion.
 

MamaLuigi123456

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,400
Location
Realm 75731
Nintendo co-owns Pokemon, to be fair(Gamefreak and Creatures Inc. also co-own it). But it's still something they have partial ownership, so the point still stands even then. It's much easier to get than any regular third party, after all.
I don't think that makes that much of a difference in the grand scheme of things. I mean GameFreak and The Pokemon Company probably have mandates on how certain Pokemon are handled (such as alternate costumes) but the fact it's second-party hasn't stopped a Pokemon newcomer coming to Smash to my knowledge.
 

Willbuysmash4mw

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 22, 2021
Messages
295
Ignoring the problems with the idea that every character in Fighters Pass 2 up until the last character is worthless filler in and of itself, even in the ludicrous event that this is true, how are you so sure that Shin Megami Tensei V is the game they would go for? There's plenty of new games that are coming out this year. Hell, Pokemon Brilliant Diamond and Pokemon Shining Pearl are coming out in November, just like SMTV, so they could just as easily go for that instead. And it'd likely be a lot easier for them since Nintendo owns Pokemon.
Not worthless filler, just filler. Steve would have definitely gotten into Smash later without the 2nd pass, probably Kazuya too(Sephiroth might have been replaced by a character from a different Final Fantasy though).
A gen 4 remake that didn’t even exist in concept in 2017 is not even remotely as big as the 25th anniversary SMT game that pushes the Switch to its limits and is one of the only bigger Mature rated franchises that Nintendo consistently has.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
14,056
Location
Snake Man's stage from Metal Blade Solid
The Telethia song… even though part 1 is of the pre-final boss

the title spoils the true final boss’s identity

Oh. The title is pretty scrambled though. You'd have to really try and crack the anagrams in order to spoil yourself.

EDIT:
 
Last edited:

MamaLuigi123456

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,400
Location
Realm 75731
Not worthless filler, just filler. Steve would have definitely gotten into Smash later without the 2nd pass, probably Kazuya too(Sephiroth might have been replaced by a character from a different Final Fantasy though).
Considering how much time and effort goes into making a character for Smash, especially when they have complex mechanics like Min Min, Steve (which required retooling every single stage mind you), and Kazuya, calling ANY character "filler" is a fallacy of logic.
A gen 4 remake that didn’t even exist in concept in 2017 is not even remotely as big as the 25th anniversary SMT game that pushes the Switch to its limits and is one of the only bigger Mature rated franchises that Nintendo consistently has.
Why does it matter if it wasn't conceptualized in 2017? First, the second pass was finalized much later than that, and second, it's a remake of the Gen IV Pokemon games, meaning that if they wanted to represent it all they would need to do is pick an existing Gen IV Pokemon.

Also, I'm not denying that Shin Megami Tensei V is big, but if ARMS and Xenoblade Chronicles 2 released one year prior to Ultimate and they couldn't make it in until Fighters Pass 2, what makes you think that a game that could possibly not be out by the time Challenger Pack 11 launches is a lock?

And for the record, I don't think a Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl character is coming either, far from it actually, but you're very clearly just pulling reasons out of your ass instead of actual arguments to back up your claims.
 
Last edited:

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

Flap and Swish~
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
34,515
Location
Cull Hazard
NNID
Irene4
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
I don't think that makes that much of a difference in the grand scheme of things. I mean GameFreak and The Pokemon Company probably have mandates on how certain Pokemon are handled (such as alternate costumes) but the fact it's second-party hasn't stopped a Pokemon newcomer coming to Smash to my knowledge.
Exactly.

It's not first party, sure. But it's pretty easy to get. Though there's a good chance a lo to the Pokemon content is heavily controlled. How much Sakurai outright can do is unclear. Who the character will be was told to us he has the call. We have seen him be given a selection of characters too(like how he came to Greninja and Incineroar), so it's not like it's super easy to get anyone.

It's also possible Gamefreak simply is easy to get anyone from Gen 1( considering Pokemon Trainer), but them being heavily iconic and marketable could be part of why. Who knows the details of these things. We have only bits and pieces, after all.
 

PeridotGX

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 8, 2017
Messages
9,101
Location
That Distant Shore
NNID
Denoma5280
We already know it is coming to PC next year.

How do you get that out of what I said? At the time the 1st pass was decided Three Houses had a 2018 release date and SMT V was regularly being marketed before Atlus said they were having development problems in 2018.

Joker wouldn’t have come to Smash at all with Nahobino in pass 1.
So was the character who replaced Nabohino Joker or Byleth? Make up your mind.
 

pupNapoleon

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 24, 2014
Messages
8,952
Location
Miami, NYC
NNID
NapoleonPlays
3DS FC
5129-1683-5306
Switch FC
SW 3124 9647 8311
OK I figured some of them out


Wow bro that's mad funny :ultsquirtle: but fr that's the Protagonist from the game "Journey". Seems to be one of the biggest Playstation indie games.
It won game of the year.
And honestly- it is a beautiful, artistic, emotion-inducing game. It's also very quick to play. In short- it may be the perfect video game.
 

Willbuysmash4mw

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 22, 2021
Messages
295
While I can see the Argument for Nahobino being the Final character in FP2, I find it a little hard to believe that this scenario will be what is coming to FP2, and I find it especially unlikely for it to be the Inspiration for FP2 even happening, when we have evidence that contradicts that idea

Tekken and Minecraft in particular were said to have been requests by Nintendo from the Man Sakurai himself. I know Sakurai also said that Nintendo chose the DLC, but there are certain characters that Nintendo mainly focused on Nintendo when it came to the decision to include the characters

The Major reason Nintendo and Microsoft got to talking about Smash, and also a reason Banjo was able to get in, were through discussions about Minecraft and it's presence on the Wii U, and considering that Talks for Steve in Smash were said to have taken 5 years before he got in, there were Smash talks as far back as that. Probably a Same deal with Tekken also

Theoretically these characters are big enough to be saved for a Future Smash game, but Sakurai has made it known that all the effort is going into this game, and I think it would be unwise if Nintendo delayed talks with these 3rd party companies for a Future Smash game, when they could get them in now. You never know how relationships can end up years from now, where maybe getting them into a future game is unfeasible

In terms of the idea of Shin Megami Tensi being the final character, Shin Megami Tensi V is a Switch Exclusive yes, and Nintendo is doing a good job showcasing the game in the Directs, but when it comes to making Nahobino Smash DLC, it's kind of a hard sell

-Shin Megami Tensi is not a Franchise with Broad appeal, it's a Niche one. It's not a bad thing to be Niche, but it is a harder Sell to consider Niche things as DLC, and they need other factors to be seen as viable idea

-If you are seeing Nahobino from a similar stance to Corrin and Byleth, unlike those characters, Nahobino is a 3rd party character, which means having to work with a External Company not owned/Associated with Nintendo, as well as the Licensing fees and such. It also doesn't help that in this case, Nahobino at most will come out as Smash DLC only 1 month after the game comes out (if he was revealed in December) which doesn't give enough time for many people to become familiar with the character

To be fair, to U.S and European Audiences, we weren't familiar with Corrin either, so that's a factor, but still something to consider

Another Main thing is that while Nintendo seems to be helping with Publishing the game, I don't think Nintendo has been funding the game like they did with Bayonetta 2 as an example. If this was the case with Shin Megami Tensi, the idea would be stronger, but there's nothing to suggest that Nintendo has any stake in the game like that

And even with Bayonetta, Bayonetta didn't get in to help promote Bayonetta 2, as Bayonetta 2 came out a year before Bayonetta was revealed, and the reason given for her inclusion wasn't for helping to promote I.P or game, but because she was a Popular Character, and the Ballot winner. Even if the evidence shows that the Ballot couldn't have been taken into account into her inclusion for real, considering that Bayonetta did have requests to be in the game even before, and that Bayonetta 2 did really well with Critics and Fans, Nintendo probably had good reason she go well with Fans

It just makes it harder to see Nahobino as this forgone conclusion, when a 3rd Party franchise Nintendo actually had stake in didn't get in for promotional reasons. Nahobino's case seems similar to something like Daemon x Machina, which Nintendo also published, and show good amount in the directs, and all that game got was Spirit events


-In terms of the appeal, besides a promotional one, there's not really anything that would be going in Nahobino's Favor in terms of Appeal when he was chosen, as he'd have no Fan Reception or legacy when we didn't even know much about the character at all, and his game hasn't come out. Shin Megami as stated is a Niche franchise at that, being even more Niche than Persona. It's not like it's Pokemon in terms of appeal, and with Pokemon, not only does Nintendo own 33% of the franchise, but that also was with the Base roster, not as DLC where the character themselves are the main selling point. At least if you included someone like Jack Frost or Demi-fiend, those are characters that have shown to have Fanbase and legacy.

-And to compound all of that, he'd seemingly would need alot of work to actually be implemented in Smash. As his game wouldn't have come out, when chosen they would either have to use Assets given by Atlus team (like Artwork or Design documents) to visualize the moveset, or they would have to play a Build of the game that showcases all the moves, and remember that since this is a 3rd party character, Sakurai and the team has to make sure every idea is approved by Atlus

And Assuming they Nahobino's Main thing would be the Demon summoning, that is good amount of Model's to create, good amount of animations to animate, and having to fit all of this into cohesive moveset. Multi characters like Ice Climbers were already said to be trouble in implementing into Ultimate, and was also a reason Rex had to sit out. It could perhaps work with Nahobino, but that's still alot of work to do for a character which if you look at the actual merits, is kind of a hard sell anyway for Nintendo to take the initiative


With all of this being said, I can still see the possibility of Nahobino being the final character. It's just a little hard to see though, and I definitely don't think it's a forgone conclusion, or even likely conclusion.
SMT’s appeal compared to Persona is almost solely because there is no western market yet while Persona’s western market is comparable to its Japanese market. The original Nocturne got buried in the PS2’s library because 2002 and 2003 were some of the best years for the console and SMT was literally completely new to the west at that time(while Persona has been in the west since the beginning) and it was a mini revival of a series thought to be dead by Japan after the complete failure of Nine. Strange Journey and the IV games coming to DS consoles really meant that at least the western fanbase for SMT had to start over with games like SMT IV and many of the original fans of Nocturne never ended up getting those. Nahobino in Smash will massively grow the western fanbase precisely because there is so much room for growth, especially when he is put next to Joker.

In Japan SMT V will easily be one of the best selling games of the year and have comparable sales to Persona 5 or even surpass it if it is good enough to bridge the smaller gap there. People in Japan don’t really see Persona and SMT as any more niche than the other, they either like both or they only like one while still understanding the other franchise is related to the one they like and attracts a similar customer base.

As gamers get older and more tired of light hearted adventures SMT’s appeal will continue to grow, especially now that the cultural stigma behind demonic iconography is gone.
 

Þe 1 → Way

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 12, 2020
Messages
2,514
Location
Wouldn’t You Like To Know?
W Willbuysmash4mw let me see if I have your argument right.

Nintendo meant to have Pass 1 consist of 4 characters. Hero, Banjo, Terry, and Nahobino.

SMT V was delayed however, and this plan couldn’t work. So Nintendo decided to replace Nahobino with Byleth and then added Joker as a plus for whatever reason.

Then, Nintendo decided to make and structure Pass 2 around SMT Vs release date so Nahobino would be the last character and promote the game just in time.

If I have your logic wrong, please correct me.

If I have your logic right. Please provide proof that this was what occurred. Not some coincidence that 3 Houses and SMT V were in development around the same time. Some real, irrefutable proof that proves for a fact Nintendo has signed off on 7 other characters specifically because of Nahobino.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom