Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[GilTheGreat19]

If anything, Demi-fiend is way more likely to me than Nahobino.

Or **** it, give us Jack Frost

inb4 its just Violet from P5R and her codename is "Jane" iykyk

 

[Cutie Gwen]

BRO ITS NOT EVEN OUT YET HOW COULD YOU MAKE THAT ASSUMPTION

Also, we'd have to see how the game sells compared to the third party Switch exclusives we have.

Mario & Rabbids (At least I think it's 3rd party idk)
Monster Hunter Rise is doing pretty good too, seeing about 6.3M units as of April 2021

To be fair it's not a stretch to say it's one of the biggest third party Switch titles, Microsoft considered it major enough competition as seen in the data the Epic VS Apple lawsuit as official documents mention it. Rise is massive but it won't stay an exclusive

 

[Willbuysmash4mw]

Can we get any evidence for this? Any at all?

And if you're going to say "Byleth was a filler character" or something like that, that's not evidence. That's plugging up the holes in a theory with no evidence with another theory with no evidence.

Three Houses and SMT V were supposed to come out much earlier. I don’t get how you don’t realize this.

And I have already told you who the extra character in the first pass is. With Nahobino in Smash there is no reason for Joker because SMT characters can easily come with Persona stuff but not the other way around.

With SMT V and Three Houses coming out earlier the entire release schedule for pass 1 changes.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It's been one heated debate after another recently, so I hope this doesn't just get buried or anything (and hopefully sparks some not emotionally charged discussions). My latest Challenger Pack concept is for Elma. Originally, I referred to the character concept as Team Elma, but Cross and Lin aren't as persistent as other "assistant" characters like Kazooie, Luma, Mythra, or the other Ice Climber, so I ended up changing my mind; just Elma will suffice.

Spoiler: Spoilered into sections for readability, but overall long read:

When Earth was threatened by an alien invasion, the humans had to flee on massive ships. One such ship was known as the White Whale, which crashed on Mira due to another run-in with the aliens. Elma was a part of the skeleton crew that fought off the aliens before the White Whale was shot down, and her team on Mira is a high ranking one within BLADE. Elma’s team consists of herself, Cross, the self-insert avatar and Lin Lee Koo (or just Lin), a 13 year old genius who is also the tank of the party. Together, they search for the missing pieces of the White Whale’s Lifehold that broke off when it crashed in order to save the entire civilization of humans trapped inside.

In Super Smash Bros. Elma fights with the Full Metal Jaguire style that uses Dual Swords and Dual Guns. She can also call in Cross and Lin to help from time to time.

Spoiler: Special Properties

Elma’s initial jump height is affected by her velocity. While moving around normally, her jump is a normal height, but while dashing, her jump is slightly higher than Falco’s. Her second jump, and short hop are not affected by this.

Aside from her jump, Elma has two overarching mechanics: Soul Voices and TP. TP is a resource indicated by a meter on Elma’s HUD. She needs TP to use her Side, Up, and Down Special Moves. She gains TP when attacking opponents, with some attacks giving her more TP than others. When her TP gauge is full, she can enter a state called Overdrive, which allows her to cancel her attacks into other attacks. To start with, Elma will have 1/3 of her max TP.

Elma’s Neutral Special is normally a move called Dual Guns, but after certain actions, a prompt to press the Special Move button will occur. If you time it right, she will use a Soul Voice, and gain a bit of TP. While a Soul Voice is active, Elma can use her Neutral Special to call Cross or Lin to aid her in battle. Doing so uses up the Soul Voice, so you must activate another one to use it again. Let’s go more in depth on the Soul Voices first.

Spoiler: Conditional Neutral Special: Soul Voice

Elma’s Soul Voices can have four different effects, and can be triggered in many different ways. The first and most common effect is the Melee Soul Voice. It is triggered when Elma’s first attack in a stock is a normal attack that uses the Dual Swords, is one of the Special Moves that requires TP, when she lands a sweetspot, when she breaks an opponent’s shield, and after K.O.’ing an opponent.

The Melee Soul Voice calls in Cross, who appears in front of Elma, and uses Tornado Blade, a jumping, spinning slash with their longsword. Visually, this attack is similar to Bayonetta’s Witch Twist, and if it hits, Elma gets a free combo off of it.

Elma’s next effect is the Ranged Soul Voice. This is triggered when Elma’s first attack in a stock is a normal attack that uses the dual guns, or is her Neutral Special: Dual Guns, or after landing a throw. This Soul Voice calls in Lin, who uses Fire Carnival, a volley of missile projectiles that explode upon impact. The projectiles have a short range, but are fired diagonally upward, making the attack a decent anti-air. The attack also has high knockback, so it can K.O. at high percents.

Elma’s third effect is the Buff Soul Voice. It only triggers in normal matches when she reaches 100+%, but it will also trigger during boss fights when the boss loses 50% of its HP. This Soul Voice calls in Cross, who uses Last Stand, which boosts Elma’s TP by 1/3. Consider it her comeback mechanic since TP by itself doesn’t really act as one.

Elma’s final effect is the Aura Soul Voice. It triggers when she uses Killing Machine (only triggers if the buff is successful), or when she spot dodges, air dodges, dodge rolls, or uses Ghost Factory to dodge three consecutive attacks. Performing these actions without being attacked resets the streak. This Soul Voice summons Lin, who uses Shield Wall, causing Elma to take less damage for a bit, and reinforcing her shield.

When Elma calls in a Soul Voice, she does point forward, so the activation is not completely independent from her, however, she doesn’t linger in her pose for long, so she can act quickly afterward. It’s worth noting that she doesn’t get TP from landing her Soul Voices; only by succeeding the button prompt.

Spoiler: Special Moves

Elma’s simplest special move is her Neutral Special: Dual Guns. When you don’t have a Soul Voice triggered, Elma will fire her Dual Guns straight forward. This is a projectile attack with decent range, and has a bit of hit stun. Elma can walk back and forth while firing as well, allowing her to tack on a bit of extra damage if she hits. Keep in mind that Elma will reload her Dual Guns after each use of the move, and while you can hold down the button to fire for longer she will have to reload after about 3 seconds of shooting.

Elma’s Side Special is her signature Dual Guns Art: Ghost Factory. Elma will slowly walk forward, even in the air, for about 3 seconds. During this time, she is intangible, and if an opponent attacks her, they will slow down a bit, and Elma will be able retaliate with whatever attack the player wants. The drawbacks to using this move is that Elma is vulnerable a bit at the start of the move, and very vulnerable at the end if her counter isn’t activated. If a projectile attack hits her during the move, it will simply pass through her, and allow her to act out of it.

This counter can be used as a mixup option for her recovery since she can use it to move toward the ledge and make whatever attack the opponent uses to edge guard her miss. The move uses a non-trivial amount of TP though, so spamming it is ill advised. Side Note: In a 1v1 battle, Elma will always visually face her opponent while using this move, even if she’s walking away from them. This doesn’t affect which side she’s facing afterward, it just looks cool.

Elma’s Up Special is Hundred Shells. She slices a wave of energy downward that launches her upward, similarly to Robin’s Elewind attack. If the energy wave hits an opponent, they will be rapidly slashed by energy waves. It doesn’t spike opponents like Elewind, but it doesn’t put them in a great position either, so it does have some edge guarding utility. This attack doesn’t use too much TP, but if you run out, Elma likely won’t be able to recover.

Elma’s Down Special is Killing Machine. Elma will kneel for about a second, and if she is uninterrupted, all of her attacks will deal more damage for a short while. There are no statistical drawbacks to this move like there are with the Monado Arts, and if you get the effect off, you can trigger her Aura Soul Voice to decrease the amount of damage that you take as well. The main drawback is TP consumption, as this move consumes a lot of it, and you don’t get it back if you are interrupted before the buff comes off. You also don’t even come close to breaking even in terms of TP loss after triggering the Soul Voice.

If Elma’s TP gauge is full, then Killing Machine becomes Overdrive. This is a near instant activation buff that allows Elma to cancel any attacks that hit into other attacks for a short while. This is an immensely powerful state, but it consumes all of your TP upon activation. It’s a one-time consumption though, so if you can build up enough TP during Overdrive, you can extend the amount of time that it’s active, though, you will again use up all of your TP. While it is riskier, and more difficult than in Xenoblade Chronicles X, you can theoretically stay in Overdrive infinitely (at least, for the rest of your stock). The song Wir Fliegen will override the current song, and play for as long as Overdrive stays active.

Spoiler: Normal Moves (Ground)

Elma’s Neutral Attack is a two hit combo with the Dual Swords. Pressing the attack button once gets you the first hit, and twice gets you both hits. The second hit pops up opponents to start air combos.

Her Forward Tilt is called Stream Edge. By pressing the attack button, Elma will slash with her Dual Swords. This attack hits twice. Pressing the button again will have her spin and slash again, this time only hitting once. Pressing the button again repeats this action, pressing it once more has her slash in the opposite direction, and pressing it one last time has her slash with one of her swords to end the combo. Altogether, the combo is a two hit slash followed by two spinning slashes, a reverse slash, and a final slash just for good measure.

Elma advances quite far forward while using the full combo of her Forward Tilt, and it even does more damage in combos started by the Dual Guns. Compared to her Neutral Attack though, this attack is much more committal, even when you just use the first part of the combo.

Elma’s Up Tilt has her fire her Dual Guns diagonally upward. It’s an anti-air similar to Fire Carnival that she can’t really combo off of, but she gets a decent amount of TP from it.

Her Down Tilt is a slash with the Dual Swords. This is her least useful tilt, but the slash’s hitbox is tall enough to protect her from the front if that’s any consolation.

Elma’s Dash Attack is called Sliding Slinger; she’ll slide forward while firing her Dual Guns. The attack is reminiscent of Bayonetta’s Heel Slide, but she doesn’t have a follow up that starts air combos. Instead, the guns cause a relatively high amount of hitstun, but no knockback, so she can use the attack to approach, and if she ends the move close enough to an opponent, she can combo from there. She also gets more TP than normal from landing this attack.

Elma’s Forward Smash is called Side Slash. She stabs with both of her Dual Swords, making an “X”, then slashes outward. There is a sweetspot where the blades intersect. Landing the sweetspot is damaging, but the Smash Attack is decently low powered as a K.O. move.

Elma’s Up Smash is Electric Surge. She crosses her Dual Swords above her, causing a large crackle of electricity to form, similarly to Mega Man’s Up Smash. This attack is much better as a K.O. move, but has no scooping hitboxes, so it’s harder to land. Landing the move triggers Soul Voices just like landing the sweet spot of Side Slash does.

Her Down Smash is Violent Streak. Elma fires her Dual Guns on both sides of her, then switches positions and does it again. There is a sweet spot at point blank that does more damage, but the attack itself covers a lot of ground. Like with the other Dual Guns attacks though, it can be reflected. This is her weakest Smash Attack in terms of K.O. power.

Spoiler: Normal Moves (Air)

Elma’s Neutral Aerial has her do a corkscrew spin while firing her Dual Guns. If she hits the attack just before she lands, she might be able to follow up with a grounded attack if she’s close enough.

Her Forward Aerial is a quick slash with her Dual Swords. This attack can combo into itself for quite a while, but doing so is a little difficult. Her Back Aerial is a pair of slash attacks with her Dual Swords, with the second one being decently powerful as a K.O. move.

Elma’s Up Aerial is inspired by Phog’s signature Dual Guns Art, Sky High. Elma does a flip kick, but before she rights herself, she spreads out her arms and fires her Dual Guns, hitting opponents diagonally below her. It’s a standard juggle flip kick Up Aerial for the most part, but the gun fire could catch some opponents off guard.

Her Down Aerial is her signature Dual Swords Art, Shadowstrike. Elma will flip, then shoot downwards in an attempt to slash an opponent from above. The initial flip has a hitbox that is meant to pull opponents into the fall part of the stall and fall attack. Both the falling and the landing hitboxes deal more damage if they hit the back of an opponent.

Spoiler: Grab & Throws

Elma has a fairly standard grab, and the animation is just her grabbing you. Her throws all have a use as well. Elma’s Forward Throw sends opponents at a pretty high angle, but her jump is high enough that she can chase opponents after throwing them, her Up Throw sets up for Bombardier K.O.’s (though you do have to be throwing your opponent for a second time in a short time span for this to work), and is a general combo throw at low-mid percents, her Back Throw is the least useful, as it’s just for stage control, and her Down Throw is her true combo throw.

Spoiler: Final Smash: Skell Combat

Elma gives the command, and Cross appears behind her in a Medium Skell to attempt to bind any opponents in front of her. If he is successful, the cinematic starts with a view of Cross inside his cockpit shouting one of his Bind Soul Voice lines. The camera then pans in the direction that Cross is facing as a Light and Heavy Skell fly into position. Elma and Lin’s cockpit views appear on the sides for a moment as they confirm that they’re ready to attack, and then the Heavy Skell fires a bunch of missiles while the Light Skell comes in with an energy blade. The cinematic ends as the Light Skell slashes all the opponents caught in the bind. After the cinematic ends, Elma is seen leaving the Light Skell.

Spoiler: Overall

Elma is one of, if not the first rush down character with a resource management gimmick. She’s armed with useful Special Moves that dip into a resource pool, and a state powerful state similar to those found in comeback mechanics on that requires that said resource pool be full. Elma players will have to decide not only when to use her Special Moves, but if they want to use them in the first place or instead save up as much TP as possible.

As far as her strengths go, Elma is very fast. This combined with her Dash Jump allow her to chase down opponents both horizontally, and vertically. She also has the option of not jumping ridiculously high, so she gets the benefits of a high jump without the drawbacks of a really high short hop. Elma has great frame data for a character with disjointed attacks, allowing her to bully a lot of characters.

Elma’s Special Moves also leave her a forced to be reckoned with. Her Melee and Ranged Soul Voices make her offense even scarier than it already is, her Buff Soul Voice can give her access to the coveted Overdrive state in a pinch if she was able to build up at least 1/3 of her TP since the start of her stock, and her Aura Soul Voice causes her to live longer than normal, improving Killing Machine, and making her dodges and counter scarier as well.

Elma’s drawbacks come in the fact that her damage output is meme worthy without the intervention of a Soul Voice (which can’t just be thrown out willy nilly), Killing Machine (which has a lot of startup lag and consumes a lot of TP), or Overdrive (which could be deadly to Elma if she isn’t careful after activating it). She also relies on hitting sweet spots to K.O., and her recovery isn’t the greatest since it does nothing to cover her ascent from above; only below, and her mixup option uses more TP than what the player may want. She also weirdly loses to reflectors a bit due to her use of the Dual Guns.

​

Spoiler: Stage: Miran Holodeck

Miran Holodeck takes place in a location that is technically inaccessible, though it presumably is the character creation area, and is mentioned at the beginning of the game when explaining probes. The stage begins in a grey metal area with New Los Angeles’s familiar architecture in terms of design details. This stage’s layout is just flat with walk-offs, but it doesn’t stay this way long and doesn’t go back to this state once it transforms. Since it’s a holodeck, it can change its look to resemble that of 6 locations: New Los Angeles (from now on, N.L.A.), Primordia, Noctilum, Oblivia, Sylvalum, and Cauldros. The transformations change the layout too, ‘cuz everyone knows that holograms are solid objects! The transformations are random.

N.L.A.’s transformation depicts the residential district. You battle inside of someone’s back yard. The backyard area is mostly flat, with the fence on the left stopping players from getting K.O.’ed on the left when launched at a low angle. You can destroy the fence though, revealing that the house is on a hill. Walking down it will run you into the blast zone. On the right, there is a house serving a similar function to the fence, but instead of being destructible, the house can be stood on. The house’s roof extends over the porch, creating a semi-solid platform.

In the background, you can see some residents chilling in and around the pool. They’re holograms, so they don’t interact with you. Beyond the backyard, you can see other homes, the Ma-non ship, N.L.A.’s outer wall, and the Industrial District, where Skells will go to and from. You wouldn’t normally be able to see the Industrial District from here, but I’m taking creative liberties with how this house was situated so you can see more of the city.

Primordia’s transformation is higher off the ground, so before it changes, an up arrow will appear signaling that you have to get on a platform if you were on a transformation that is on ground level. This will happen any time the transformation goes from ground level to somewhat suspended in the air.

The transformation depicts a grassy arch similar to those found in Gaur Plain. The exact area doesn’t really exist, but you can still trace the location of inspiration to somewhere around the Grieving Plains area, as it overlooks Biahno Lake. The layout itself is a single arch protruding from the right blast zone, and extending about ¾ of the way to the left side of the screen. Underneath the arch are a few semi-solid platforms beneath it. The platforms are noticeably offset to the left of the stage, but aren’t entirely on the left half. The bottom platform is large enough for people to actually fight on it without falling off. The second lowest platform is off to the right of the lowest one, and the highest one is off to the left. Oversimplified, this transformation is Gaur Plain lite edition.

In the background, you can see Biahno Lake, a large lake fed by a water fall, and Biahno Water-Purification Plant. Since they’re so large, you can see a few Millesaurs, essentially just brontosauruses with mantis heads, drinking from the lake as well. Also, a Levitath, a flying whale thing with blue wings, will occasionally fly by.

Noctilum’s transformation depicts Old Dagontail Tree. Players start at the base of the tree with pretty much the only thing in the background being the tree itself, and after a prompt from the holodeck, climb up it as the stage’s perspective rotates. This rotation is somewhat similar to the effect found on Spiral Mountain, but instead of just rotating the perspective without any rhyme or reason, the plane that the players operate on shifts up along the tree’s spiral trunk (meaning, it’s more akin to an auto-scrolling segment). Players must walk up the trunk, or be left behind. Due to the nature of the layout, the path down the tree on the left is a walk-off as is the path up the tree on the right until you reach the tree’s tip.

In the background, you will be able to see the entire area around Old Dragontail Tree for the most part. The area includes a jungle area with huge tree roots (tree trunks?) growing through the ground, a swampy area within the forest with shallow water everywhere, part of the clearing where Oskar, the Summer Squall (a large plant moose deer thing) resides, the entrance to more jungle, and a clearing that leads to a sheer cliff in the distance (you might also be able to see a cave entrance with this viewpoint).

Oblivia’s transformation is located on top of the butte in Acroy Plain. The area here is flat, with a walk off to the right, and a cliff to the left. There’s a semi-solid platform left by the Prone (enemy alien species) that floats around the right hand side of the stage. In the background, you’ll find Prone patrolling the area, and beyond the butte, you can see out near the entrance to the continent, including another Prone base, and the giant chasm.

Sylvalum’s transformation takes place near Lake Ciel. The area is mostly flat, with walk-offs on both sides, and shallow water on the left side of the stage. However, there is a large “rock” located in a random position in the sand. At random points, the “rock” will reveal itself to be a Smalt Arenatect, getting up, walking around, and burrowing itself back into the sand. It will not go into the water.

In the background, you can see various indigenous species living in the shallow lake, from Sacrifoles (large jumpscare insects that look like flowers) to the colossal Coronids (which are like…buffalo, but not fluffy? I guess?).

Cauldros’s transformation is a higher up location; a large rock somewhere around The Eternal Battlegrounds area. The rock is a bit jagged with the left ledge being higher than the right edge. From the left edge, the ground slopes up, then down, levels out a bit, then slopes back up slightly to the right edge. There is a semi-solid platform above the crater on the right.

In the background, you can see the lava pits as well as the Ganglion (enemy faction) stronghold. You will also see various ganglion mechs flying around, and a Gularth (basically a lava giant) standing around in the lava pits.

All 6 locations will appear with a random time of day, and also a random weather condition depending on the continent the stage is currently depicting. The following is a list of weather conditions that can appear and where.

Spoiler

Note: N.L.A. is located in Primordia so it gets the same weather.

• Aurora
  • Occurs In: Primordia, Oblivia
  • Effect: Attacks that use RNG have a higher chance to get a more favorable outcome, and Aura and PSI attacks do more damage.
• Brimstone Rain
  • Occurs In: Cauldros
  • Effect: Tiny burning rocks fall from the sky, damaging all players, and fire attacks do a lot more damage. The Brimstone Rain also causes all bombs to explode pretty much instantly.
• Clear
  • Occurs In: All Locations (Most Common Weather Effect)
  • Effect: No Effect.
• Cloudy
  • Occurs In: Sylvalum, Cauldros
  • Effect: No Effect.
• Crimson Aurora
  • Occurs In: Sylvalum
  • Effect: Attacks that use RNG have a higher chance to get a more favorable outcome, and Aura, PSI, and Magic attacks do more damage.
• Dense Fog
  • Occurs In: Noctilum
  • Effect: Attacks that use RNG have a lower chance to get a more favorable outcome.
• Electromagnetic Storm
  • Occurs In: Oblivia, Cauldros
  • Effect: Players constantly take minor damage, and electric attacks are a lot more powerful.
• Energy Mist
  • Occurs In: Noctilum
  • Effect: Energy Shot Attacks do a lot more damage, R.O.B.’s Robo Burner refuels a lot faster, and Rocket Belts refuel quickly when not in use.
• Heat Wave
  • Occurs In: Oblivia
  • Effect: Fire attacks become slightly more powerful, and physical and weapon attacks become slightly less powerful.
• Heavy Rain
  • Occurs In: Primordia
  • Effect: Energy shot attacks become a lot less powerful, and water and ice attacks become a lot more powrful
• Meteor Shower
  • Occurs In: Primordia, Oblivia
  • Effect: Attacks that use RNG have a higher chance to get a more favorable outcome, and Magic attacks do more damage.
• Rain
  • Occurs In: Primordia, Noctilum, Oblivia
  • Effect: Energy shot attacks become slightly less powerful, and water and ice attacks become slightly more powerful.
• Rainbow
  • Occurs In: Primordia, Noctilum, Oblivia, Cauldros (yeah apparently Brimstone Rain causes rainbows too for some reason)
  • Effect: Rarer items have a higher chance to spawn. This also affects Peach’s Vegetable Pull.
• Rising Energy Mist
  • Occurs In: Sylvalum
  • Effect: Energy Shot Attacks do slightly more damage, R.O.B.’s Robo Burner refuels a little faster, and Rocket Belts refuel slowly when not in use.
• Sandstorm
  • Occurs In: Oblivia
  • Effect: Energy shot and shooting attacks are less powerful, and the sandstorm makes things slightly harder to see.
• Spores
  • Occurs In: Sylvalum
  • Effect: Physical, weapon, and shooting attacks are less powerful, and nobody can see anything.
• Thunderstorm
  • Occurs In: Primordia, Noctilum
  • Effect: Energy shot attacks become slightly less powerful, and electric attacks become slightly more powerful.

Spoiler: Potential Pallet Swaps

A notable aspect of Elma’s pallet swaps, is that Cross has an alternate costume. Odd pallets use male Cross, and even Pallets use female Cross. Cross’s voice is different depending on the pallet swaps as well. Cross and Lin don’t otherwise change their appearance.

• Elma: Elma is a dark skinned character with long white hair, and a predominantly red outfit with some purple & white accents.
  • Cross’s voice actor is Yuri Lowenthal (Heroic)
• Black: Elma’s outfit becomes predominantly black, her hair takes on a more purple hue, her skin becomes greyish, and her normally blue eyes are now purple. This is based off of…something from the end of the game that I won’t spoil.
  • Cross’s voice actor is Tara Platt (Heroic)
• Blue: Elma’s outfit becomes a silvery blue. This is based off of Doug’s starting outfit.
  • Cross’s voice actor is Robbie Daymond (Studious)
• Grey: Elma’s outfit becomes predominantly grey, with green highlights. This is based off of Alexa’s starting outfit.
  • Cross’s voice actor is Cristina Valenzuela (Peppy)
• Green: Elma’s outfit becomes an army green in the torso, and a warm, dark grey on the legs. This is based off of Gwin’s starting outfit.
  • Cross’s voice actor is Ben Diskin (Joker)
• Gold: Elma’s outfit becomes a dull gold color. This is based off of Mia’s starting outfit.
  • Cross’s voice actor is Kate Higgins (Joker)
• Purple: Elma’s outfit becomes predominantly purple on the torso, and black on the legs. The clothing around her hips is now blue, as is her hair. This is based off of L’s starting outfit.
  • Cross’s voice actor is Adam Howden (Classic)
• White & Black: Elma’s outfit becomes a mix of white and black, with a golden accent color. This is based off of Celica’s starting outfit.
  • Cross’s voice actor is Carina Reeves (Classic)

Spoiler: Classic Mode: Stuck on a Different Planet

• Olimar (Distant Planet)
• Rosalina & Luma (Mario Galaxy)
• Samus (Brinstar)
• Shulk (Gaur Plain)
• Fox and Falco (Corneria)
• Kirby, Meta Knight, & King Dedede (Dream Land)
• Bonus
• Marx

The theme here is fighters that explicitly live on their own unique planets/are space faring. Dunno if Marx is extraterrestrial, but his arena certainly is. There are technically more that could fit here, but I’m less confident in using settings like The World of Pokémon since it’s unclear what exactly the deal with it is, or Mobius since I don’t really remember enough about it.

Spoiler: Music

A lot of the tracks in this game have vocals by a bunch of different people. Vocal tracks are pretty hit or miss when it comes to including them, but I’m just going to assume we can have nice things and don’t have to reduce some of them to instrumental tracks/not include them at all. Also don’t ask me why a bunch of the song titles are just a bunch of random characters. I don’t know.

• Xenoblade Chronicles X Medley (Remix)
  • I feel like a mashup of the game’s music is going to become a tradition, so I’ll carry that on here. I’m not particularly fond of mashups though.
• CODENAMEZ
  • An epic orchestral track that, IIRC, is one of the main themes of the game. Hopefully not butchered to fill less time, as it is 5 minutes long.
• THEMEX
  • One of the first songs to sweep new players off their feet, this great orchestral piece has to be included, and not butchered to fill less time.
• MONOX (Remix)
  • The title theme remixed to more consistently fit the context of a battle.
• N周L辺A
  • It’s not a Xenoblade Chronicles tracklist without the day theme of the game’s world 1. lol
  • I don’t think they’d include the night section.
• N木ig木ht木L
  • Noctilum’s day theme. I don’t think they’d include the night section.
• N市L街A
  • New L.A.’s theme I could actually see them adding both the day and night sections here, though if they did the night section likely wouldn’t stick around for long.
• 亡KEI却KOKU心
  • Oblivia’s day theme. I don’t think they’d include the night section.
• 96-:rip (Remix)
  • Cauldros’s theme. Here I think they could remix both the day and night themes together.
• z?2f0i1e2l0d914 (Remix)
  • The cave theme remixed to be slightly faster.
• Black Tar (Remix)
  • The normal and skell battle themes remixed to be a bit less heavy in the lyrics department. Otherwise I’d imagine it would sound pretty similar to the original.
• Uncontrollable
  • The Tyrant theme, and the jam of all Xenoblade Chronicles X players.
• NO.EX01
  • The major boss theme. Someone said that the refrain sounds like “they’re coming to chokeslam the humans” and now I can’t unhear it.
• Wir Fliegen
  • The song that plays when you enter Overdrive. Once you discover infinite Overdrive, it becomes the only battle theme in the game.
• Wir Fliegen (Remix)
  • This song wouldn’t actually be normally selectable; instead, it’s what plays when Elma pops Overdrive in the middle of a match.
• z5m20i12r04a28 (Remix)
  • The “welcome to Mira” song, and a battle theme in section 2.
• z39b20co13mi01cal09
  • I think they’d only use the first section, as the second section is very soothing, and the first is Tatsu’s theme.
• G-LOW-S→F.S.K.O (Remix)
  • The theme of the Ganglion. I feel like it would get a remix to allow the first part to fit the tone of Super Smash Bros. a bit better (it’s a bit more atmospheric than it is a battle theme), but it doesn’t particularly need one either.
  • This song is split into two sections and used for different scenes, and I think the second section will either be used to change the pace of the song for a bit, or cut out entirely.
• RE:ARR.X (Remix)
  • A remix of a medley of remixes. The first half is So nah, so fern, and the second half is THEMEX. The remix would essentially just up the pace, and make the two flow together better.
• Melancholia
  • It starts off relatively slow, and then goes unexpectedly hard. Interestingly, this is a menu theme, but you don’t stay in the menu long.
• In the Forest ＜X→Z ver.＞
  • I highly doubt they’d actually add this one, but I neeeeed it.
• The Key We’ve Lost (Part 1)
  • The final boss theme.
• The Key We’ve Lost (Part 2)
  • The normal Ganglion battle theme.
• Don’t Worry
  • The “I jumped” theme. The lyrics don’t make any sense, but the song is a bop anyway.
• The Way (Remix)
  • I don’t think they’ll include it, but I’ve got a personal connection to this one, so I’m including it anyway. The remix is to give it a slightly faster pace for the purposes of battle.

Spoiler: Spirit Board

There are a few Xenoblade Chronicles X spirits already. Those that already have Spirit Battles will not have them explained here.

• Lin (Existing)
• Tatsu (Existing)
• Lao (Novice)
  • Spirit Battle: You battle a black Snake with a Staff on Reset Bomb Forest. RE:ARR.X is the music for this battle.
  • Effect: Primary Spirit. Is Grab Type, and has 1 slot.
• Doug (Novice)
  • Spirit Battle: You battle a blue Shulk in Shadow Moses Isle, while a flood of Hocotate Bombs spawn in periodically. CODENAMEZ is the music for this battle.
  • Effect: Grants Energy Shot Attack Up
• H. B. (Novice)
  • Spirit Battle: You battle a Cloud equipped with a Back Shield and a propensity for taunting on Midgar. Black Tar is the music for this battle.
  • Effect: Primary Spirit. Is Shield Type, and has 1 slot. Also makes all of your attacks superior.
• Irina & Gwin (Advanced)
  • Spirit Battle: You battle a green Chrom and a red Zero Suit Samus on Midgar. The floor is sleep, and Melancholia is the music for this battle.
  • Effect: Primary Spirit. Is Attack Type, and has 2 slots.
• L (Advanced)
  • Spirit Battle: You battle Lucario with a back shield in the Noctilum section of Miran Holodeck. z5m20i12r04a28 is the music for this battle.
  • Effect: Primary Spirit. Is Shield Type, and has 2 slots.
• Celica & Rock (Advanced)
  • Spirit Battle: You battle a black Zelda and a large brown Bowser on Garden of Hope. Both have a weak auto heal effect. The Way is the music for this battle.
  • Effect: Grants Autoheal.
• Formula (Existing)
• Vandham (Ace)
  • Spirit Battle: You battle a grey Ryu in Midgar. Elma will appear to assist him after a bit. N市L街A is the music for this battle.
  • Effect: Grants Jam FS Charge.
• Nagi (Ace)
  • Spirit Battle: You battle a blue Snake with a Killing Edge, and a fast Final Smash Meter on Midgar. Uncontrollable is the music for this battle.
  • Effect: Primary Spirit. Is Attack Type, and has 3 slots.
• Lifehold (Legend)
  • Spirit Battle: You battle a large immobile R.O.B. with crazy defense in Frigate Orpheon. Characters like Elma, Cloud, Bayonetta, Marth, Corrin, etc. will appear constantly until you beat R.O.B. The Key We’ve Lost is the music for this battle.
  • Effect: Grants Preservation, which ups the size of your shield, and causes you to heal while you shield.

I would like to make at least one more than this (maybe two, but I'll cross that bridge when I get there) to have 2 complete passes of ideas. Dunno who the next one will be for yet, but I'm still working on being a functional human being, so probably not going to come out at the same pace as the ones since before my last hiatus. Even Elma's took a little longer than I wanted, though that was for other reasons as well.

What was I trying to say here? Um...I would like to make 1-2 more of these, but I might only make one for a few different reasons. Probably will be someone we don't normally talk about due to the few different options I have in my head.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

If anything, Demi-fiend is way more likely to me than Nahobino.

Or **** it, give us Jack Frost

inb4 its just Violet from P5R and her codename is "Jane" iykyk

I mean Second Chance Theory is a thing for pass 2 no?
Min Min, Pyra/Mythra = ARMS and XC2 were too late for the base roster plan, decided to give both games a second chance
Steve = the five year thing, bargaining chip for Banjo and Kazooie
Sephiroth = FFVII lacked content in base, he was the fixer
Kazuya = Sakurai wanted Heihachi in 4, complexities in implementing at the time, in the end Kazuya is a cooler Heihachi with Devil powers

if the Jane thing holds up Violet could get in on merit of that datamine

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Microsoft considered it major enough competition as seen in the data the Epic VS Apple lawsuit as official documents mention it.

Hmm, I actually didn't know that, thanks for pointing this out.

Then again, I never cared enough to follow the Epic vs Apple lawsuit to even follow it. (Minus the basics and what Epic did)

and regarding Rise, I recall HEARING it might stop being an exclusive, so if what I heard ends up coming true, I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[Theguy123]

Three Houses and SMT V were supposed to come out much earlier. I don’t get how you don’t realize this.

And I have already told you who the extra character in the first pass is. With Nahobino in Smash there is no reason for Joker because SMT characters can easily come with Persona stuff but not the other way around.

With SMT V and Three Houses coming out earlier the entire release schedule for pass 1 changes.

by that logic I could say that the professor Layton and the curious village game and lost future were meant to be coming to the Switch last year and because of their current situation they’ve been shelved to coincide with professor Layton being the last fighter when level 5 are in a better situation.

that logic makes no sense and if you wanna go down that root then that can be applied to any company that’s got a game currently delayed, shelved or has been delayed.

once again no evidence

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Hmm, I actually didn't know that, thanks for pointing this out.

Then again, I never cared enough to follow the Epic vs Apple lawsuit to even follow it. (Minus the basics and what Epic did)

and regarding Rise, I recall HEARING it might stop being an exclusive, so if what I heard ends up coming true, I wouldn't be surprised.

That came from the Capcom megaleak from like November which leaked Great Ace Attorney Chronicles, available now for 39.99

 

[Sucumbio]

I mean Second Chance Theory is a thing for pass 2 no?
Min Min, Pyra/Mythra = ARMS and XC2 were too late for the base roster plan, decided to give both games a second chance
Steve = the five year thing, bargaining chip for Banjo and Kazooie
Sephiroth = FFVII lacked content in base, he was the fixer
Kazuya = Sakurai wanted Heihachi in 4, complexities in implementing at the time, in the end Kazuya is a cooler Heihachi with Devil powers

if the Jane thing holds up Violet could get in on merit of that datamine

What's Jane and violet? /Lazyignorantslob

 

[Rie Sonomura]

It's been one heated debate after another recently, so I hope this doesn't just get buried or anything (and hopefully sparks some not emotionally charged discussions). My latest Challenger Pack concept is for Elma. Originally, I referred to the character concept as Team Elma, but Cross and Lin aren't as persistent as other "assistant" characters like Kazooie, Luma, Mythra, or the other Ice Climber, so I ended up changing my mind; just Elma will suffice.

Spoiler: Spoilered into sections for readability, but overall long read:

When Earth was threatened by an alien invasion, the humans had to flee on massive ships. One such ship was known as the White Whale, which crashed on Mira due to another run-in with the aliens. Elma was a part of the skeleton crew that fought off the aliens before the White Whale was shot down, and her team on Mira is a high ranking one within BLADE. Elma’s team consists of herself, Cross, the self-insert avatar and Lin Lee Koo (or just Lin), a 13 year old genius who is also the tank of the party. Together, they search for the missing pieces of the White Whale’s Lifehold that broke off when it crashed in order to save the entire civilization of humans trapped inside.

In Super Smash Bros. Elma fights with the Full Metal Jaguire style that uses Dual Swords and Dual Guns. She can also call in Cross and Lin to help from time to time.

Spoiler: Special Properties

Elma’s initial jump height is affected by her velocity. While moving around normally, her jump is a normal height, but while dashing, her jump is slightly higher than Falco’s. Her second jump, and short hop are not affected by this.

Aside from her jump, Elma has two overarching mechanics: Soul Voices and TP. TP is a resource indicated by a meter on Elma’s HUD. She needs TP to use her Side, Up, and Down Special Moves. She gains TP when attacking opponents, with some attacks giving her more TP than others. When her TP gauge is full, she can enter a state called Overdrive, which allows her to cancel her attacks into other attacks. To start with, Elma will have 1/3 of her max TP.

Elma’s Neutral Special is normally a move called Dual Guns, but after certain actions, a prompt to press the Special Move button will occur. If you time it right, she will use a Soul Voice, and gain a bit of TP. While a Soul Voice is active, Elma can use her Neutral Special to call Cross or Lin to aid her in battle. Doing so uses up the Soul Voice, so you must activate another one to use it again. Let’s go more in depth on the Soul Voices first.

Spoiler: Conditional Neutral Special: Soul Voice

Elma’s Soul Voices can have four different effects, and can be triggered in many different ways. The first and most common effect is the Melee Soul Voice. It is triggered when Elma’s first attack in a stock is a normal attack that uses the Dual Swords, is one of the Special Moves that requires TP, when she lands a sweetspot, when she breaks an opponent’s shield, and after K.O.’ing an opponent.

The Melee Soul Voice calls in Cross, who appears in front of Elma, and uses Tornado Blade, a jumping, spinning slash with their longsword. Visually, this attack is similar to Bayonetta’s Witch Twist, and if it hits, Elma gets a free combo off of it.

Elma’s next effect is the Ranged Soul Voice. This is triggered when Elma’s first attack in a stock is a normal attack that uses the dual guns, or is her Neutral Special: Dual Guns, or after landing a throw. This Soul Voice calls in Lin, who uses Fire Carnival, a volley of missile projectiles that explode upon impact. The projectiles have a short range, but are fired diagonally upward, making the attack a decent anti-air. The attack also has high knockback, so it can K.O. at high percents.

Elma’s third effect is the Buff Soul Voice. It only triggers in normal matches when she reaches 100+%, but it will also trigger during boss fights when the boss loses 50% of its HP. This Soul Voice calls in Cross, who uses Last Stand, which boosts Elma’s TP by 1/3. Consider it her comeback mechanic since TP by itself doesn’t really act as one.

Elma’s final effect is the Aura Soul Voice. It triggers when she uses Killing Machine (only triggers if the buff is successful), or when she spot dodges, air dodges, dodge rolls, or uses Ghost Factory to dodge three consecutive attacks. Performing these actions without being attacked resets the streak. This Soul Voice summons Lin, who uses Shield Wall, causing Elma to take less damage for a bit, and reinforcing her shield.

When Elma calls in a Soul Voice, she does point forward, so the activation is not completely independent from her, however, she doesn’t linger in her pose for long, so she can act quickly afterward. It’s worth noting that she doesn’t get TP from landing her Soul Voices; only by succeeding the button prompt.

​

Spoiler: Special Moves

Elma’s simplest special move is her Neutral Special: Dual Guns. When you don’t have a Soul Voice triggered, Elma will fire her Dual Guns straight forward. This is a projectile attack with decent range, and has a bit of hit stun. Elma can walk back and forth while firing as well, allowing her to tack on a bit of extra damage if she hits. Keep in mind that Elma will reload her Dual Guns after each use of the move, and while you can hold down the button to fire for longer she will have to reload after about 3 seconds of shooting.

Elma’s Side Special is her signature Dual Guns Art: Ghost Factory. Elma will slowly walk forward, even in the air, for about 3 seconds. During this time, she is intangible, and if an opponent attacks her, they will slow down a bit, and Elma will be able retaliate with whatever attack the player wants. The drawbacks to using this move is that Elma is vulnerable a bit at the start of the move, and very vulnerable at the end if her counter isn’t activated. If a projectile attack hits her during the move, it will simply pass through her, and allow her to act out of it.

This counter can be used as a mixup option for her recovery since she can use it to move toward the ledge and make whatever attack the opponent uses to edge guard her miss. The move uses a non-trivial amount of TP though, so spamming it is ill advised. Side Note: In a 1v1 battle, Elma will always visually face her opponent while using this move, even if she’s walking away from them. This doesn’t affect which side she’s facing afterward, it just looks cool.

Elma’s Up Special is Hundred Shells. She slices a wave of energy downward that launches her upward, similarly to Robin’s Elewind attack. If the energy wave hits an opponent, they will be rapidly slashed by energy waves. It doesn’t spike opponents like Elewind, but it doesn’t put them in a great position either, so it does have some edge guarding utility. This attack doesn’t use too much TP, but if you run out, Elma likely won’t be able to recover.

Elma’s Down Special is Killing Machine. Elma will kneel for about a second, and if she is uninterrupted, all of her attacks will deal more damage for a short while. There are no statistical drawbacks to this move like there are with the Monado Arts, and if you get the effect off, you can trigger her Aura Soul Voice to decrease the amount of damage that you take as well. The main drawback is TP consumption, as this move consumes a lot of it, and you don’t get it back if you are interrupted before the buff comes off. You also don’t even come close to breaking even in terms of TP loss after triggering the Soul Voice.

If Elma’s TP gauge is full, then Killing Machine becomes Overdrive. This is a near instant activation buff that allows Elma to cancel any attacks that hit into other attacks for a short while. This is an immensely powerful state, but it consumes all of your TP upon activation. It’s a one-time consumption though, so if you can build up enough TP during Overdrive, you can extend the amount of time that it’s active, though, you will again use up all of your TP. While it is riskier, and more difficult than in Xenoblade Chronicles X, you can theoretically stay in Overdrive infinitely (at least, for the rest of your stock). The song Wir Fliegen will override the current song, and play for as long as Overdrive stays active.

Spoiler: Normal Moves (Ground)

Elma’s Neutral Attack is a two hit combo with the Dual Swords. Pressing the attack button once gets you the first hit, and twice gets you both hits. The second hit pops up opponents to start air combos.

Her Forward Tilt is called Stream Edge. By pressing the attack button, Elma will slash with her Dual Swords. This attack hits twice. Pressing the button again will have her spin and slash again, this time only hitting once. Pressing the button again repeats this action, pressing it once more has her slash in the opposite direction, and pressing it one last time has her slash with one of her swords to end the combo. Altogether, the combo is a two hit slash followed by two spinning slashes, a reverse slash, and a final slash just for good measure.

Elma advances quite far forward while using the full combo of her Forward Tilt, and it even does more damage in combos started by the Dual Guns. Compared to her Neutral Attack though, this attack is much more committal, even when you just use the first part of the combo.

Elma’s Up Tilt has her fire her Dual Guns diagonally upward. It’s an anti-air similar to Fire Carnival that she can’t really combo off of, but she gets a decent amount of TP from it.

Her Down Tilt is a slash with the Dual Swords. This is her least useful tilt, but the slash’s hitbox is tall enough to protect her from the front if that’s any consolation.

Elma’s Dash Attack is called Sliding Slinger; she’ll slide forward while firing her Dual Guns. The attack is reminiscent of Bayonetta’s Heel Slide, but she doesn’t have a follow up that starts air combos. Instead, the guns cause a relatively high amount of hitstun, but no knockback, so she can use the attack to approach, and if she ends the move close enough to an opponent, she can combo from there. She also gets more TP than normal from landing this attack.

Elma’s Forward Smash is called Side Slash. She stabs with both of her Dual Swords, making an “X”, then slashes outward. There is a sweetspot where the blades intersect. Landing the sweetspot is damaging, but the Smash Attack is decently low powered as a K.O. move.

Elma’s Up Smash is Electric Surge. She crosses her Dual Swords above her, causing a large crackle of electricity to form, similarly to Mega Man’s Up Smash. This attack is much better as a K.O. move, but has no scooping hitboxes, so it’s harder to land. Landing the move triggers Soul Voices just like landing the sweet spot of Side Slash does.

Her Down Smash is Violent Streak. Elma fires her Dual Guns on both sides of her, then switches positions and does it again. There is a sweet spot at point blank that does more damage, but the attack itself covers a lot of ground. Like with the other Dual Guns attacks though, it can be reflected. This is her weakest Smash Attack in terms of K.O. power.

Spoiler: Normal Moves (Air)

Elma’s Neutral Aerial has her do a corkscrew spin while firing her Dual Guns. If she hits the attack just before she lands, she might be able to follow up with a grounded attack if she’s close enough.

Her Forward Aerial is a quick slash with her Dual Swords. This attack can combo into itself for quite a while, but doing so is a little difficult. Her Back Aerial is a pair of slash attacks with her Dual Swords, with the second one being decently powerful as a K.O. move.

Elma’s Up Aerial is inspired by Phog’s signature Dual Guns Art, Sky High. Elma does a flip kick, but before she rights herself, she spreads out her arms and fires her Dual Guns, hitting opponents diagonally below her. It’s a standard juggle flip kick Up Aerial for the most part, but the gun fire could catch some opponents off guard.

Her Down Aerial is her signature Dual Swords Art, Shadowstrike. Elma will flip, then shoot downwards in an attempt to slash an opponent from above. The initial flip has a hitbox that is meant to pull opponents into the fall part of the stall and fall attack. Both the falling and the landing hitboxes deal more damage if they hit the back of an opponent.

Spoiler: Grab & Throws

Elma has a fairly standard grab, and the animation is just her grabbing you. Her throws all have a use as well. Elma’s Forward Throw sends opponents at a pretty high angle, but her jump is high enough that she can chase opponents after throwing them, her Up Throw sets up for Bombardier K.O.’s (though you do have to be throwing your opponent for a second time in a short time span for this to work), and is a general combo throw at low-mid percents, her Back Throw is the least useful, as it’s just for stage control, and her Down Throw is her true combo throw.

Spoiler: Final Smash: Skell Combat

Elma gives the command, and Cross appears behind her in a Medium Skell to attempt to bind any opponents in front of her. If he is successful, the cinematic starts with a view of Cross inside his cockpit shouting one of his Bind Soul Voice lines. The camera then pans in the direction that Cross is facing as a Light and Heavy Skell fly into position. Elma and Lin’s cockpit views appear on the sides for a moment as they confirm that they’re ready to attack, and then the Heavy Skell fires a bunch of missiles while the Light Skell comes in with an energy blade. The cinematic ends as the Light Skell slashes all the opponents caught in the bind. After the cinematic ends, Elma is seen leaving the Light Skell.

Spoiler: Overall

Elma is one of, if not the first rush down character with a resource management gimmick. She’s armed with useful Special Moves that dip into a resource pool, and a state powerful state similar to those found in comeback mechanics on that requires that said resource pool be full. Elma players will have to decide not only when to use her Special Moves, but if they want to use them in the first place or instead save up as much TP as possible.

As far as her strengths go, Elma is very fast. This combined with her Dash Jump allow her to chase down opponents both horizontally, and vertically. She also has the option of not jumping ridiculously high, so she gets the benefits of a high jump without the drawbacks of a really high short hop. Elma has great frame data for a character with disjointed attacks, allowing her to bully a lot of characters.

Elma’s Special Moves also leave her a forced to be reckoned with. Her Melee and Ranged Soul Voices make her offense even scarier than it already is, her Buff Soul Voice can give her access to the coveted Overdrive state in a pinch if she was able to build up at least 1/3 of her TP since the start of her stock, and her Aura Soul Voice causes her to live longer than normal, improving Killing Machine, and making her dodges and counter scarier as well.

Elma’s drawbacks come in the fact that her damage output is meme worthy without the intervention of a Soul Voice (which can’t just be thrown out willy nilly), Killing Machine (which has a lot of startup lag and consumes a lot of TP), or Overdrive (which could be deadly to Elma if she isn’t careful after activating it). She also relies on hitting sweet spots to K.O., and her recovery isn’t the greatest since it does nothing to cover her ascent from above; only below, and her mixup option uses more TP than what the player may want. She also weirdly loses to reflectors a bit due to her use of the Dual Guns.

​

Spoiler: Stage: Miran Holodeck

Miran Holodeck takes place in a location that is technically inaccessible, though it presumably is the character creation area, and is mentioned at the beginning of the game when explaining probes. The stage begins in a grey metal area with New Los Angeles’s familiar architecture in terms of design details. This stage’s layout is just flat with walk-offs, but it doesn’t stay this way long and doesn’t go back to this state once it transforms. Since it’s a holodeck, it can change its look to resemble that of 6 locations: New Los Angeles (from now on, N.L.A.), Primordia, Noctilum, Oblivia, Sylvalum, and Cauldros. The transformations change the layout too, ‘cuz everyone knows that holograms are solid objects! The transformations are random.

N.L.A.’s transformation depicts the residential district. You battle inside of someone’s back yard. The backyard area is mostly flat, with the fence on the left stopping players from getting K.O.’ed on the left when launched at a low angle. You can destroy the fence though, revealing that the house is on a hill. Walking down it will run you into the blast zone. On the right, there is a house serving a similar function to the fence, but instead of being destructible, the house can be stood on. The house’s roof extends over the porch, creating a semi-solid platform.

In the background, you can see some residents chilling in and around the pool. They’re holograms, so they don’t interact with you. Beyond the backyard, you can see other homes, the Ma-non ship, N.L.A.’s outer wall, and the Industrial District, where Skells will go to and from. You wouldn’t normally be able to see the Industrial District from here, but I’m taking creative liberties with how this house was situated so you can see more of the city.

Primordia’s transformation is higher off the ground, so before it changes, an up arrow will appear signaling that you have to get on a platform if you were on a transformation that is on ground level. This will happen any time the transformation goes from ground level to somewhat suspended in the air.

The transformation depicts a grassy arch similar to those found in Gaur Plain. The exact area doesn’t really exist, but you can still trace the location of inspiration to somewhere around the Grieving Plains area, as it overlooks Biahno Lake. The layout itself is a single arch protruding from the right blast zone, and extending about ¾ of the way to the left side of the screen. Underneath the arch are a few semi-solid platforms beneath it. The platforms are noticeably offset to the left of the stage, but aren’t entirely on the left half. The bottom platform is large enough for people to actually fight on it without falling off. The second lowest platform is off to the right of the lowest one, and the highest one is off to the left. Oversimplified, this transformation is Gaur Plain lite edition.

In the background, you can see Biahno Lake, a large lake fed by a water fall, and Biahno Water-Purification Plant. Since they’re so large, you can see a few Millesaurs, essentially just brontosauruses with mantis heads, drinking from the lake as well. Also, a Levitath, a flying whale thing with blue wings, will occasionally fly by.

Noctilum’s transformation depicts Old Dagontail Tree. Players start at the base of the tree with pretty much the only thing in the background being the tree itself, and after a prompt from the holodeck, climb up it as the stage’s perspective rotates. This rotation is somewhat similar to the effect found on Spiral Mountain, but instead of just rotating the perspective without any rhyme or reason, the plane that the players operate on shifts up along the tree’s spiral trunk (meaning, it’s more akin to an auto-scrolling segment). Players must walk up the trunk, or be left behind. Due to the nature of the layout, the path down the tree on the left is a walk-off as is the path up the tree on the right until you reach the tree’s tip.

In the background, you will be able to see the entire area around Old Dragontail Tree for the most part. The area includes a jungle area with huge tree roots (tree trunks?) growing through the ground, a swampy area within the forest with shallow water everywhere, part of the clearing where Oskar, the Summer Squall (a large plant moose deer thing) resides, the entrance to more jungle, and a clearing that leads to a sheer cliff in the distance (you might also be able to see a cave entrance with this viewpoint).

Oblivia’s transformation is located on top of the butte in Acroy Plain. The area here is flat, with a walk off to the right, and a cliff to the left. There’s a semi-solid platform left by the Prone (enemy alien species) that floats around the right hand side of the stage. In the background, you’ll find Prone patrolling the area, and beyond the butte, you can see out near the entrance to the continent, including another Prone base, and the giant chasm.

Sylvalum’s transformation takes place near Lake Ciel. The area is mostly flat, with walk-offs on both sides, and shallow water on the left side of the stage. However, there is a large “rock” located in a random position in the sand. At random points, the “rock” will reveal itself to be a Smalt Arenatect, getting up, walking around, and burrowing itself back into the sand. It will not go into the water.

In the background, you can see various indigenous species living in the shallow lake, from Sacrifoles (large jumpscare insects that look like flowers) to the colossal Coronids (which are like…buffalo, but not fluffy? I guess?).

Cauldros’s transformation is a higher up location; a large rock somewhere around The Eternal Battlegrounds area. The rock is a bit jagged with the left ledge being higher than the right edge. From the left edge, the ground slopes up, then down, levels out a bit, then slopes back up slightly to the right edge. There is a semi-solid platform above the crater on the right.

In the background, you can see the lava pits as well as the Ganglion (enemy faction) stronghold. You will also see various ganglion mechs flying around, and a Gularth (basically a lava giant) standing around in the lava pits.

All 6 locations will appear with a random time of day, and also a random weather condition depending on the continent the stage is currently depicting. The following is a list of weather conditions that can appear and where.

Spoiler

Note: N.L.A. is located in Primordia so it gets the same weather.

• Aurora
  • Occurs In: Primordia, Oblivia
  • Effect: Attacks that use RNG have a higher chance to get a more favorable outcome, and Aura and PSI attacks do more damage.
• Brimstone Rain
  • Occurs In: Cauldros
  • Effect: Tiny burning rocks fall from the sky, damaging all players, and fire attacks do a lot more damage. The Brimstone Rain also causes all bombs to explode pretty much instantly.
• Clear
  • Occurs In: All Locations (Most Common Weather Effect)
  • Effect: No Effect.
• Cloudy
  • Occurs In: Sylvalum, Cauldros
  • Effect: No Effect.
• Crimson Aurora
  • Occurs In: Sylvalum
  • Effect: Attacks that use RNG have a higher chance to get a more favorable outcome, and Aura, PSI, and Magic attacks do more damage.
• Dense Fog
  • Occurs In: Noctilum
  • Effect: Attacks that use RNG have a lower chance to get a more favorable outcome.
• Electromagnetic Storm
  • Occurs In: Oblivia, Cauldros
  • Effect: Players constantly take minor damage, and electric attacks are a lot more powerful.
• Energy Mist
  • Occurs In: Noctilum
  • Effect: Energy Shot Attacks do a lot more damage, R.O.B.’s Robo Burner refuels a lot faster, and Rocket Belts refuel quickly when not in use.
• Heat Wave
  • Occurs In: Oblivia
  • Effect: Fire attacks become slightly more powerful, and physical and weapon attacks become slightly less powerful.
• Heavy Rain
  • Occurs In: Primordia
  • Effect: Energy shot attacks become a lot less powerful, and water and ice attacks become a lot more powrful
• Meteor Shower
  • Occurs In: Primordia, Oblivia
  • Effect: Attacks that use RNG have a higher chance to get a more favorable outcome, and Magic attacks do more damage.
• Rain
  • Occurs In: Primordia, Noctilum, Oblivia
  • Effect: Energy shot attacks become slightly less powerful, and water and ice attacks become slightly more powerful.
• Rainbow
  • Occurs In: Primordia, Noctilum, Oblivia, Cauldros (yeah apparently Brimstone Rain causes rainbows too for some reason)
  • Effect: Rarer items have a higher chance to spawn. This also affects Peach’s Vegetable Pull.
• Rising Energy Mist
  • Occurs In: Sylvalum
  • Effect: Energy Shot Attacks do slightly more damage, R.O.B.’s Robo Burner refuels a little faster, and Rocket Belts refuel slowly when not in use.
• Sandstorm
  • Occurs In: Oblivia
  • Effect: Energy shot and shooting attacks are less powerful, and the sandstorm makes things slightly harder to see.
• Spores
  • Occurs In: Sylvalum
  • Effect: Physical, weapon, and shooting attacks are less powerful, and nobody can see anything.
• Thunderstorm
  • Occurs In: Primordia, Noctilum
  • Effect: Energy shot attacks become slightly less powerful, and electric attacks become slightly more powerful.

s

Spoiler: Potential Pallet Swaps

A notable aspect of Elma’s pallet swaps, is that Cross has an alternate costume. Odd pallets use male Cross, and even Pallets use female Cross. Cross’s voice is different depending on the pallet swaps as well. Cross and Lin don’t otherwise change their appearance.

• Elma: Elma is a dark skinned character with long white hair, and a predominantly red outfit with some purple & white accents.
  • Cross’s voice actor is Yuri Lowenthal (Heroic)
• Black: Elma’s outfit becomes predominantly black, her hair takes on a more purple hue, her skin becomes greyish, and her normally blue eyes are now purple. This is based off of…something from the end of the game that I won’t spoil.
  • Cross’s voice actor is Tara Platt (Heroic)
• Blue: Elma’s outfit becomes a silvery blue. This is based off of Doug’s starting outfit.
  • Cross’s voice actor is Robbie Daymond (Studious)
• Grey: Elma’s outfit becomes predominantly grey, with green highlights. This is based off of Alexa’s starting outfit.
  • Cross’s voice actor is Cristina Valenzuela (Peppy)
• Green: Elma’s outfit becomes an army green in the torso, and a warm, dark grey on the legs. This is based off of Gwin’s starting outfit.
  • Cross’s voice actor is Ben Diskin (Joker)
• Gold: Elma’s outfit becomes a dull gold color. This is based off of Mia’s starting outfit.
  • Cross’s voice actor is Kate Higgins (Joker)
• Purple: Elma’s outfit becomes predominantly purple on the torso, and black on the legs. The clothing around her hips is now blue, as is her hair. This is based off of L’s starting outfit.
  • Cross’s voice actor is Adam Howden (Classic)
• White & Black: Elma’s outfit becomes a mix of white and black, with a golden accent color. This is based off of Celica’s starting outfit.
  • Cross’s voice actor is Carina Reeves (Classic)

Spoiler: Classic Mode: Stuck on a Different Planet

• Olimar (Distant Planet)
• Rosalina & Luma (Mario Galaxy)
• Samus (Brinstar)
• Shulk (Gaur Plain)
• Fox and Falco (Corneria)
• Kirby, Meta Knight, & King Dedede (Dream Land)
• Bonus
• Marx

The theme here is fighters that explicitly live on their own unique planets/are space faring. Dunno if Marx is extraterrestrial, but his arena certainly is. There are technically more that could fit here, but I’m less confident in using settings like The World of Pokémon since it’s unclear what exactly the deal with it is, or Mobius since I don’t really remember enough about it.

Spoiler: Music

A lot of the tracks in this game have vocals by a bunch of different people. Vocal tracks are pretty hit or miss when it comes to including them, but I’m just going to assume we can have nice things and don’t have to reduce some of them to instrumental tracks/not include them at all. Also don’t ask me why a bunch of the song titles are just a bunch of random characters. I don’t know.

• Xenoblade Chronicles X Medley (Remix)
  • I feel like a mashup of the game’s music is going to become a tradition, so I’ll carry that on here. I’m not particularly fond of mashups though.
• CODENAMEZ
  • An epic orchestral track that, IIRC, is one of the main themes of the game. Hopefully not butchered to fill less time, as it is 5 minutes long.
• THEMEX
  • One of the first songs to sweep new players off their feet, this great orchestral piece has to be included, and not butchered to fill less time.
• MONOX (Remix)
  • The title theme remixed to more consistently fit the context of a battle.
• N周L辺A
  • It’s not a Xenoblade Chronicles tracklist without the day theme of the game’s world 1. lol
  • I don’t think they’d include the night section.
• N木ig木ht木L
  • Noctilum’s day theme. I don’t think they’d include the night section.
• N市L街A
  • New L.A.’s theme I could actually see them adding both the day and night sections here, though if they did the night theme likely wouldn’t stick around for long.
• 亡KEI却KOKU心
  • Oblivia’s day theme. I don’t think they’d include the night section.
• 96-:rip (Remix)
  • Cauldros’s theme. Here I think they could remix both the day and night themes together.
• z?2f0i1e2l0d914 (Remix)
  • The cave theme remixed to be slightly faster.
• Black Tar (Remix)
  • The normal and skell battle themes remixed to be a bit less heavy in the lyrics department. Otherwise I’d imagine it would sound pretty similar to the original.
• Uncontrollable
  • The Tyrant theme, and the jam of all Xenoblade Chronicles X players.
• NO.EX01
  • The major boss theme. Someone said that the refrain sounds like “they’re coming to chokeslam the humans” and now I can’t unhear it.
• Wir Fliegen
  • The song that plays when you enter Overdrive. Once you discover infinite Overdrive, it becomes the only battle theme in the game.
• Wir Fliegen (Remix)
  • This song wouldn’t actually be normally selectable; instead, it’s what plays when Elma pops Overdrive in the middle of a match.
• z5m20i12r04a28 (Remix)
  • The “welcome to Mira” song, and a battle theme in section 2.
• z39b20co13mi01cal09
  • I think they’d only use the first section, as the second section is very soothing, and the first is Tatsu’s theme.
• G-LOW-S→F.S.K.O (Remix)
  • The theme of the Ganglion. I feel like it would get a remix to allow the first part to fit the tone of Super Smash Bros. a bit better (it’s a bit more atmospheric than it is a battle theme), but it doesn’t particularly need one either.
  • This song is split into two sections and used for different scenes, and I think the second section will either be used to change the pace of the song for a bit, or cut out entirely.
• RE:ARR.X (Remix)
  • A remix of a medley of remixes. The first half is So nah, so fern, and the second half is THEMEX. The remix would essentially just up the pace, and make the two flow together better.
• Melancholia
  • It starts off relatively slow, and then goes unexpectedly hard. Interestingly, this is a menu theme, but you don’t stay in the menu long.
• In the Forest ＜X→Z ver.＞
  • I highly doubt they’d actually add this one, but I neeeeed it.
• The Key We’ve Lost (Part 1)
  • The final boss theme.
• The Key We’ve Lost (Part 2)
  • The normal Ganglion battle theme.
• Don’t Worry
  • The “I jumped” theme. The lyrics don’t make any sense, but the song is a bop anyway.
• The Way (Remix)
  • I don’t think they’ll include it, but I’ve got a personal connection to this one, so I’m including it anyway. The remix is to give it a slightly faster pace for the purposes of battle.

Spoiler: Spirit Board

There are a few Xenoblade Chronicles X spirits already. Those that already have Spirit Battles will not have them explained here.

• Lin (Existing)
• Tatsu (Existing)
• Lao (Novice)
  • Spirit Battle: You battle a black Snake with a Staff on Reset Bomb Forest. RE:ARR.X is the music for this battle.
  • Effect: Primary Spirit. Is Grab Type, and has 1 slot.
• Doug (Novice)
  • Spirit Battle: You battle a blue Shulk in Shadow Moses Isle, while a flood of Hocotate Bombs spawn in periodically. CODENAMEZ is the music for this battle.
  • Effect: Grants Energy Shot Attack Up
• H. B. (Novice)
  • Spirit Battle: You battle a Cloud equipped with a Back Shield and a propensity for taunting on Midgar. Black Tar is the music for this battle.
  • Effect: Primary Spirit. Is Shield Type, and has 1 slot. Also makes all of your attacks superior.
• Irina & Gwin (Advanced)
  • Spirit Battle: You battle a green Chrom and a red Zero Suit Samus on Midgar. The floor is sleep, and Melancholia is the music for this battle.
  • Effect: Primary Spirit. Is Attack Type, and has 2 slots.
• L (Advanced)
  • Spirit Battle: You battle Lucario with a back shield in the Noctilum section of Miran Holodeck. z5m20i12r04a28 is the music for this battle.
  • Effect: Primary Spirit. Is Shield Type, and has 2 slots.
• Celica & Rock (Advanced)
  • Spirit Battle: You battle a black Zelda and a large brown Bowser on Garden of Hope. Both have a weak auto heal effect. The Way is the music for this battle.
  • Effect: Grants Autoheal.
• Formula (Existing)
• Vandham (Ace)
  • Spirit Battle: You battle a grey Ryu in Midgar. Elma will appear to assist him after a bit. N市L街A is the music for this battle.
  • Effect: Grants Jam FS Charge.
• Nagi (Ace)
  • Spirit Battle: You battle a blue Snake with a Killing Edge, and a fast Final Smash Meter on Midgar. Uncontrollable is the music for this battle.
  • Effect: Primary Spirit. Is Attack Type, and has 3 slots.
• Lifehold (Legend)
  • Spirit Battle: You battle a large immobile R.O.B. with crazy defense in Frigate Orpheon. Characters like Elma, Cloud, Bayonetta, Marth, Corrin, etc. will appear constantly until you beat R.O.B. The Key We’ve Lost is the music for this battle.
  • Effect: Grants Preservation, which ups the size of your shield, and causes you to heal while you shield.

I would like to make at least one more than this (maybe two, but I'll cross that bridge when I get there) to have 2 complete passes of ideas. Dunno who the next one will be for yet, but I'm still working on being a functional human being, so probably not going to come out at the same pace as the ones since before my last hiatus. Even Elma's took a little longer than I wanted, though that was for other reasons as well.

What was I trying to say here? Um...I would like to make 1-2 more of these, but I might only make one for a few different reasons. Probably will be someone we don't normally talk about due to the few different options I have in my head.

YOOOOOOOOOOOOO

always makes me happy to see some Elma love

although Elma would 100% have a True Form alt, albeit made more ESRB/CERO friendly due to the boob/butt windows

and excellent music selection, I’d only say it’s missing the Telethia theme (the name has a stealth spoiler though) and aBOreSSs (Prog Ares)

 

[PeridotGX]

We weren't going to get Persona and SMT content in the same pass. That's like if Kiryu and the guy from Judgement were both in the pads

 

[SneakyLink]

What's Jane and violet? /Lazyignorantslob

Jane is something found in the Smash code before Joker released.
Violet is a character from Persona 5 R.
I think at one point it was thought this Violet would be a Joker echo or alt skin but nothing happened.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

That came from the Capcom megaleak from like November which leaked Great Ace Attorney Chronicles, available now for 39.99

Oh right. That was a thing.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

What's Jane and violet? /Lazyignorantslob

K so

when the game came out and we knew joker was coming, dataminers found Brave as the next fighter’s codename, which pointed at Hero. They ALSO dig into Joker’s file (Joker was codenamed “Jack”) and found a file for a “Jane” with a ponytail rig or something. Violet, a new playable character in the updated port of Persona 5 subtitled “Royal” has a ponytail.

 

[Willbuysmash4mw]

BRO ITS NOT EVEN OUT YET HOW COULD YOU MAKE THAT ASSUMPTION

Also, we'd have to see how the game sells compared to the third party Switch exclusives we have.

Mario & Rabbids (At least I think it's 3rd party idk)
Monster Hunter Rise is doing pretty good too, seeing about 6.3M units as of April 2021

It’s not about the sales, it is about showing off the capabilities of the Switch and expanding Nintendo’s and Smash’s marketing demographic.

There are Switch owners today that either own no games for it or barely any games simply because they bought their Switch right when SMT V was shown off, it attracts a different demographic than anything else in the library.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

I mean Second Chance Theory is a thing for pass 2 no?
Min Min, Pyra/Mythra = ARMS and XC2 were too late for the base roster plan, decided to give both games a second chance
Steve = the five year thing, bargaining chip for Banjo and Kazooie
Sephiroth = FFVII lacked content in base, he was the fixer
Kazuya = Sakurai wanted Heihachi in 4, complexities in implementing at the time, in the end Kazuya is a cooler Heihachi with Devil powers

if the Jane thing holds up Violet could get in on merit of that datamine

Lots of games/characters, heck even companies could fit 2nd Chance Theory.
One super duper tin foil hat example I keep having is an Ubisoft character of some kind, Rayman to make up for POTENTIALLY previously failed deals and lack of more spirits for his series, or Ezio as a backup alternative to not being able to get Rayman.

Or maybe Cp11 is the oddball and doesn't fit the theory at all. This is in all seriousness a possibility.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

GUYS, Nintendo made Smash Ultimate specifically to put Silent Hill in the game.

Pyramid Head was actually planned to be in Smash 4, but after the Konami Kojima thing happened Nintendo decided to make an entire new Smash game and then after that the Silent Hill game got delayed so they had to make the fighter passes to account for the release date of the new Silent Hill game (which will be Switch exclusive), and thus, Pyramid Head is CP11.

Perfect logic, hes in

 

[Rie Sonomura]

You know tho, back to X’s music

we also need the absolute NIGHTMARE FUEL of a song that is the Rexoskell theme cuz we need more scary **** in Smash

or maybe even the creepy ass “dangerous area” theme… listen to it in the dark with headphones

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Wasn't there temporary speculation that Jane could've also been Jill Valentine?
Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Wasn't there temporary speculation that Jane could've also been Jill Valentine?
Correct me if I'm wrong.

I think some also said Lara Croft cuz of the ponytail

but that begs the question, they’re from different series than Joker so why would Jane be in Joker’s file if she was Jill or Lara?

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Wasn't there temporary speculation that Jane could've also been Jill Valentine?
Correct me if I'm wrong.

I don’t remember hearing anything about that.
Doesn’t make much sense since “Jane” was found in Jokers file and follows his codename of “Jack”

Edit:’d

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

YOOOOOOOOOOOOO

always makes me happy to see some Elma love

although Elma would 100% have a True Form alt, albeit made more ESRB/CERO friendly due to the boob/butt windows

and excellent music selection, I’d only say it’s missing the Telethia theme (the name has a stealth spoiler though) and aBOreSSs (Prog Ares)

Spoiler: Xenoblade Chronicles X Spoilers

I didn't include a real true form alternate costume due to the spoilers. It's not at bad as Seven, but still. I probably would include it should a Xehoblade Chronicles X2 happen since by then it would be her default look.

I have no idea what people would glean from the title raTEoREkiSImeAra in terms of spoilers though. lol

As for the song selection, aBOreSSs just barely didn't make the cut since I wanted the number of tracks to be semi-realistic, but it and the Telethia theme could probably replace the two that I said were probably not getting added.

Also, I just realized that I forgot to include song links, so...be right back.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

I think some also said Lara Croft cuz of the ponytail

but that begs the question, they’re from different series than Joker so why would Jane be in Joker’s file if she was Jill or Lara?

Um Rie
It's quite obvious
They have their own personas!

But for real, maybe it's a simple coding bug.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Spoiler: Xenoblade Chronicles X Spoilers

I didn't include a real true form alternate costume due to the spoilers. It's not at bad as Seven, but still. I probably would include it should a Xehoblade Chronicles X2 happen since by then it would be her default look.

I have no idea what people would glean from the title raTEoREkiSImeAra in terms of spoilers though. lol

As for the song selection, aBOreSSs just barely didn't make the cut since I wanted the number of tracks to be semi-realistic, but it and the Telethia theme could probably replace the two that I said were probably not getting added.

Also, I just realized that I forgot to include song links, so...be right back.

The Telethia song… even though part 1 is of the pre-final boss

the title spoils the true final boss’s identity

Spoiler: If you’re really curious (X spoilers)

its “TELETHIA” but also “lao chimera”

the final boss is Lao, mutated into a Chimera after he falls into the lifehold’s cloning liquid and Luxaar who’s holding him hostage dissolves in it

 

[Willbuysmash4mw]

To be fair it's not a stretch to say it's one of the biggest third party Switch titles, Microsoft considered it major enough competition as seen in the data the Epic VS Apple lawsuit as official documents mention it. Rise is massive but it won't stay an exclusive

We already know it is coming to PC next year.

by that logic I could say that the professor Layton and the curious village game and lost future were meant to be coming to the Switch last year and because of their current situation they’ve been shelved to coincide with professor Layton being the last fighter when level 5 are in a better situation.

that logic makes no sense and if you wanna go down that root then that can be applied to any company that’s got a game currently delayed, shelved or has been delayed.

once again no evidence

How do you get that out of what I said? At the time the 1st pass was decided Three Houses had a 2018 release date and SMT V was regularly being marketed before Atlus said they were having development problems in 2018.

We weren't going to get Persona and SMT content in the same pass. That's like if Kiryu and the guy from Judgement were both in the pads

Joker wouldn’t have come to Smash at all with Nahobino in pass 1.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I have given plenty of evidence.

And no, it is not ludicrous at all. Pass 2 was not supposed to exist. Steve, Sephiroth and Kazuya are timeless characters that could have been added to any future Smash game and Pyra and Min Min could have either been added to the base roster of the next Smash or left to be spirits forever and it would make no difference for Smash or Nintendo.

There is no reason for pass 2 to exist or to be the final pass unless there is a character in it that Nintendo desperately wants to reveal to finalize the dlc, and the only character that fits that is Nahobino.

Ignoring the problems with the idea that every character in Fighters Pass 2 up until the last character is worthless filler in and of itself, even in the ludicrous event that this is true, how are you so sure that Shin Megami Tensei V is the game they would go for? There's plenty of new games that are coming out this year. Hell, Pokemon Brilliant Diamond and Pokemon Shining Pearl are coming out in November, just like SMTV, so they could just as easily go for that instead. And it'd likely be a lot easier for them since Nintendo owns Pokemon.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Ignoring the problems with the idea that every character in Fighters Pass 2 up until the last character is worthless filler in and of itself, even in the ludicrous event that this is true, how are you so sure that Shin Megami Tensei V is the game they would go for? There's plenty of new games that are coming out this year. Hell, Pokemon Brilliant Diamond and Pokemon Shining Pearl are coming out in November, just like SMTV, so they could just as easily go for that instead. And it'd likely be a lot easier for them since Nintendo owns Pokemon.

Nintendo co-owns Pokemon, to be fair(Gamefreak and Creatures Inc. also co-own it). But it's still something they have partial ownership, so the point still stands even then. It's much easier to get than any regular third party, after all.

 

[7NATOR]

I have given plenty of evidence.

And no, it is not ludicrous at all. Pass 2 was not supposed to exist. Steve, Sephiroth and Kazuya are timeless characters that could have been added to any future Smash game and Pyra and Min Min could have either been added to the base roster of the next Smash or left to be spirits forever and it would make no difference for Smash or Nintendo.

There is no reason for pass 2 to exist or to be the final pass unless there is a character in it that Nintendo desperately wants to reveal to finalize the dlc, and the only character that fits that is Nahobino.

While I can see the Argument for Nahobino being the Final character in FP2, I find it a little hard to believe that this scenario will be what is coming to FP2, and I find it especially unlikely for it to be the Inspiration for FP2 even happening, when we have evidence that contradicts that idea

Tekken and Minecraft in particular were said to have been requests by Nintendo from the Man Sakurai himself. I know Sakurai also said that Nintendo chose the DLC, but there are certain characters that Nintendo mainly focused on Nintendo when it came to the decision to include the characters

The Major reason Nintendo and Microsoft got to talking about Smash, and also a reason Banjo was able to get in, were through discussions about Minecraft and it's presence on the Wii U, and considering that Talks for Steve in Smash were said to have taken 5 years before he got in, there were Smash talks as far back as that. Probably a Same deal with Tekken also

Theoretically these characters are big enough to be saved for a Future Smash game, but Sakurai has made it known that all the effort is going into this game, and I think it would be unwise if Nintendo delayed talks with these 3rd party companies for a Future Smash game, when they could get them in now. You never know how relationships can end up years from now, where maybe getting them into a future game is unfeasible

In terms of the idea of Shin Megami Tensi being the final character, Shin Megami Tensi V is a Switch Exclusive yes, and Nintendo is doing a good job showcasing the game in the Directs, but when it comes to making Nahobino Smash DLC, it's kind of a hard sell

-Shin Megami Tensi is not a Franchise with Broad appeal, it's a Niche one. It's not a bad thing to be Niche, but it is a harder Sell to consider Niche things as DLC, and they need other factors to be seen as viable idea

-If you are seeing Nahobino from a similar stance to Corrin and Byleth, unlike those characters, Nahobino is a 3rd party character, which means having to work with a External Company not owned/Associated with Nintendo, as well as the Licensing fees and such. It also doesn't help that in this case, Nahobino at most will come out as Smash DLC only 1 month after the game comes out (if he was revealed in December) which doesn't give enough time for many people to become familiar with the character

To be fair, to U.S and European Audiences, we weren't familiar with Corrin either, so that's a factor, but still something to consider

Another Main thing is that while Nintendo seems to be helping with Publishing the game, I don't think Nintendo has been funding the game like they did with Bayonetta 2 as an example. If this was the case with Shin Megami Tensi, the idea would be stronger, but there's nothing to suggest that Nintendo has any stake in the game like that

And even with Bayonetta, Bayonetta didn't get in to help promote Bayonetta 2, as Bayonetta 2 came out a year before Bayonetta was revealed, and the reason given for her inclusion wasn't for helping to promote I.P or game, but because she was a Popular Character, and the Ballot winner. Even if the evidence shows that the Ballot couldn't have been taken into account into her inclusion for real, considering that Bayonetta did have requests to be in the game even before, and that Bayonetta 2 did really well with Critics and Fans, Nintendo probably had good reason she go well with Fans

It just makes it harder to see Nahobino as this forgone conclusion, when a 3rd Party franchise Nintendo actually had stake in didn't get in for promotional reasons. Nahobino's case seems similar to something like Daemon x Machina, which Nintendo also published, and show good amount in the directs, and all that game got was Spirit events


-In terms of the appeal, besides a promotional one, there's not really anything that would be going in Nahobino's Favor in terms of Appeal when he was chosen, as he'd have no Fan Reception or legacy when we didn't even know much about the character at all, and his game hasn't come out. Shin Megami as stated is a Niche franchise at that, being even more Niche than Persona. It's not like it's Pokemon in terms of appeal, and with Pokemon, not only does Nintendo own 33% of the franchise, but that also was with the Base roster, not as DLC where the character themselves are the main selling point. At least if you included someone like Jack Frost or Demi-fiend, those are characters that have shown to have Fanbase and legacy.

-And to compound all of that, he'd seemingly would need alot of work to actually be implemented in Smash. As his game wouldn't have come out, when chosen they would either have to use Assets given by Atlus team (like Artwork or Design documents) to visualize the moveset, or they would have to play a Build of the game that showcases all the moves, and remember that since this is a 3rd party character, Sakurai and the team has to make sure every idea is approved by Atlus

And Assuming they Nahobino's Main thing would be the Demon summoning, that is good amount of Model's to create, good amount of animations to animate, and having to fit all of this into cohesive moveset. Multi characters like Ice Climbers were already said to be trouble in implementing into Ultimate, and was also a reason Rex had to sit out. It could perhaps work with Nahobino, but that's still alot of work to do for a character which if you look at the actual merits, is kind of a hard sell anyway for Nintendo to take the initiative


With all of this being said, I can still see the possibility of Nahobino being the final character. It's just a little hard to see though, and I definitely don't think it's a forgone conclusion, or even likely conclusion.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Nintendo co-owns Pokemon, to be fair(Gamefreak and Creatures Inc. also co-own it). But it's still something they have partial ownership, so the point still stands even then. It's much easier to get than any regular third party, after all.

I don't think that makes that much of a difference in the grand scheme of things. I mean GameFreak and The Pokemon Company probably have mandates on how certain Pokemon are handled (such as alternate costumes) but the fact it's second-party hasn't stopped a Pokemon newcomer coming to Smash to my knowledge.

 

[Willbuysmash4mw]

Ignoring the problems with the idea that every character in Fighters Pass 2 up until the last character is worthless filler in and of itself, even in the ludicrous event that this is true, how are you so sure that Shin Megami Tensei V is the game they would go for? There's plenty of new games that are coming out this year. Hell, Pokemon Brilliant Diamond and Pokemon Shining Pearl are coming out in November, just like SMTV, so they could just as easily go for that instead. And it'd likely be a lot easier for them since Nintendo owns Pokemon.

Not worthless filler, just filler. Steve would have definitely gotten into Smash later without the 2nd pass, probably Kazuya too(Sephiroth might have been replaced by a character from a different Final Fantasy though).
A gen 4 remake that didn’t even exist in concept in 2017 is not even remotely as big as the 25th anniversary SMT game that pushes the Switch to its limits and is one of the only bigger Mature rated franchises that Nintendo consistently has.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The Telethia song… even though part 1 is of the pre-final boss

the title spoils the true final boss’s identity

Spoiler: If you’re really curious (X spoilers)

its “TELETHIA” but also “lao chimera”

the final boss is Lao, mutated into a Chimera after he falls into the lifehold’s cloning liquid and Luxaar who’s holding him hostage dissolves in it

Oh. The title is pretty scrambled though. You'd have to really try and crack the anagrams in order to spoil yourself.

EDIT:

Spoiler: Xenoblade Chronicles series spoilers

Unlike Xenoblade Chronicles 2's final boss theme which is just out there in plain text. If you've gotten as far as to see Praetor Amalthus, you have been spoiled. lol

Makes me kind of wish that Zanza was also included, but also kind of not. I guess I'd settle for just God Slaying Sword.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Not worthless filler, just filler. Steve would have definitely gotten into Smash later without the 2nd pass, probably Kazuya too(Sephiroth might have been replaced by a character from a different Final Fantasy though).

Considering how much time and effort goes into making a character for Smash, especially when they have complex mechanics like Min Min, Steve (which required retooling every single stage mind you), and Kazuya, calling ANY character "filler" is a fallacy of logic.

A gen 4 remake that didn’t even exist in concept in 2017 is not even remotely as big as the 25th anniversary SMT game that pushes the Switch to its limits and is one of the only bigger Mature rated franchises that Nintendo consistently has.

Why does it matter if it wasn't conceptualized in 2017? First, the second pass was finalized much later than that, and second, it's a remake of the Gen IV Pokemon games, meaning that if they wanted to represent it all they would need to do is pick an existing Gen IV Pokemon.

Also, I'm not denying that Shin Megami Tensei V is big, but if ARMS and Xenoblade Chronicles 2 released one year prior to Ultimate and they couldn't make it in until Fighters Pass 2, what makes you think that a game that could possibly not be out by the time Challenger Pack 11 launches is a lock?

And for the record, I don't think a Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl character is coming either, far from it actually, but you're very clearly just pulling reasons out of your ass instead of actual arguments to back up your claims.

 

[DarthEnderX]

And yet you tried to use Min Min and Pyra to prove outdated games on Switch can still be advertised in Smash.

Because they do. Because they were.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I don't think that makes that much of a difference in the grand scheme of things. I mean GameFreak and The Pokemon Company probably have mandates on how certain Pokemon are handled (such as alternate costumes) but the fact it's second-party hasn't stopped a Pokemon newcomer coming to Smash to my knowledge.

Exactly.

It's not first party, sure. But it's pretty easy to get. Though there's a good chance a lo to the Pokemon content is heavily controlled. How much Sakurai outright can do is unclear. Who the character will be was told to us he has the call. We have seen him be given a selection of characters too(like how he came to Greninja and Incineroar), so it's not like it's super easy to get anyone.

It's also possible Gamefreak simply is easy to get anyone from Gen 1( considering Pokemon Trainer), but them being heavily iconic and marketable could be part of why. Who knows the details of these things. We have only bits and pieces, after all.

 

[PeridotGX]

We already know it is coming to PC next year.

How do you get that out of what I said? At the time the 1st pass was decided Three Houses had a 2018 release date and SMT V was regularly being marketed before Atlus said they were having development problems in 2018.

Joker wouldn’t have come to Smash at all with Nahobino in pass 1.

So was the character who replaced Nabohino Joker or Byleth? Make up your mind.

 

[Perkilator]

You know, I would've loved to see House of the Dead represented in Smash in some way. Maybe with the Magician as a boss and/or Assist Trophy (maybe both, a la Rathalos)

 

[Jocario Zero]

Nahobino was supposed to be in pass 1 as the final character.

Do you have ANY source on this one other than "because I say so"?

 

[pupNapoleon]

OK I figured some of them out


Wow bro that's mad funny but fr that's the Protagonist from the game "Journey". Seems to be one of the biggest Playstation indie games.

It won game of the year.
And honestly- it is a beautiful, artistic, emotion-inducing game. It's also very quick to play. In short- it may be the perfect video game.

 

[Willbuysmash4mw]

While I can see the Argument for Nahobino being the Final character in FP2, I find it a little hard to believe that this scenario will be what is coming to FP2, and I find it especially unlikely for it to be the Inspiration for FP2 even happening, when we have evidence that contradicts that idea

Tekken and Minecraft in particular were said to have been requests by Nintendo from the Man Sakurai himself. I know Sakurai also said that Nintendo chose the DLC, but there are certain characters that Nintendo mainly focused on Nintendo when it came to the decision to include the characters

The Major reason Nintendo and Microsoft got to talking about Smash, and also a reason Banjo was able to get in, were through discussions about Minecraft and it's presence on the Wii U, and considering that Talks for Steve in Smash were said to have taken 5 years before he got in, there were Smash talks as far back as that. Probably a Same deal with Tekken also

Theoretically these characters are big enough to be saved for a Future Smash game, but Sakurai has made it known that all the effort is going into this game, and I think it would be unwise if Nintendo delayed talks with these 3rd party companies for a Future Smash game, when they could get them in now. You never know how relationships can end up years from now, where maybe getting them into a future game is unfeasible

In terms of the idea of Shin Megami Tensi being the final character, Shin Megami Tensi V is a Switch Exclusive yes, and Nintendo is doing a good job showcasing the game in the Directs, but when it comes to making Nahobino Smash DLC, it's kind of a hard sell

-Shin Megami Tensi is not a Franchise with Broad appeal, it's a Niche one. It's not a bad thing to be Niche, but it is a harder Sell to consider Niche things as DLC, and they need other factors to be seen as viable idea

-If you are seeing Nahobino from a similar stance to Corrin and Byleth, unlike those characters, Nahobino is a 3rd party character, which means having to work with a External Company not owned/Associated with Nintendo, as well as the Licensing fees and such. It also doesn't help that in this case, Nahobino at most will come out as Smash DLC only 1 month after the game comes out (if he was revealed in December) which doesn't give enough time for many people to become familiar with the character

To be fair, to U.S and European Audiences, we weren't familiar with Corrin either, so that's a factor, but still something to consider

Another Main thing is that while Nintendo seems to be helping with Publishing the game, I don't think Nintendo has been funding the game like they did with Bayonetta 2 as an example. If this was the case with Shin Megami Tensi, the idea would be stronger, but there's nothing to suggest that Nintendo has any stake in the game like that

And even with Bayonetta, Bayonetta didn't get in to help promote Bayonetta 2, as Bayonetta 2 came out a year before Bayonetta was revealed, and the reason given for her inclusion wasn't for helping to promote I.P or game, but because she was a Popular Character, and the Ballot winner. Even if the evidence shows that the Ballot couldn't have been taken into account into her inclusion for real, considering that Bayonetta did have requests to be in the game even before, and that Bayonetta 2 did really well with Critics and Fans, Nintendo probably had good reason she go well with Fans

It just makes it harder to see Nahobino as this forgone conclusion, when a 3rd Party franchise Nintendo actually had stake in didn't get in for promotional reasons. Nahobino's case seems similar to something like Daemon x Machina, which Nintendo also published, and show good amount in the directs, and all that game got was Spirit events


-In terms of the appeal, besides a promotional one, there's not really anything that would be going in Nahobino's Favor in terms of Appeal when he was chosen, as he'd have no Fan Reception or legacy when we didn't even know much about the character at all, and his game hasn't come out. Shin Megami as stated is a Niche franchise at that, being even more Niche than Persona. It's not like it's Pokemon in terms of appeal, and with Pokemon, not only does Nintendo own 33% of the franchise, but that also was with the Base roster, not as DLC where the character themselves are the main selling point. At least if you included someone like Jack Frost or Demi-fiend, those are characters that have shown to have Fanbase and legacy.

-And to compound all of that, he'd seemingly would need alot of work to actually be implemented in Smash. As his game wouldn't have come out, when chosen they would either have to use Assets given by Atlus team (like Artwork or Design documents) to visualize the moveset, or they would have to play a Build of the game that showcases all the moves, and remember that since this is a 3rd party character, Sakurai and the team has to make sure every idea is approved by Atlus

And Assuming they Nahobino's Main thing would be the Demon summoning, that is good amount of Model's to create, good amount of animations to animate, and having to fit all of this into cohesive moveset. Multi characters like Ice Climbers were already said to be trouble in implementing into Ultimate, and was also a reason Rex had to sit out. It could perhaps work with Nahobino, but that's still alot of work to do for a character which if you look at the actual merits, is kind of a hard sell anyway for Nintendo to take the initiative


With all of this being said, I can still see the possibility of Nahobino being the final character. It's just a little hard to see though, and I definitely don't think it's a forgone conclusion, or even likely conclusion.

SMT’s appeal compared to Persona is almost solely because there is no western market yet while Persona’s western market is comparable to its Japanese market. The original Nocturne got buried in the PS2’s library because 2002 and 2003 were some of the best years for the console and SMT was literally completely new to the west at that time(while Persona has been in the west since the beginning) and it was a mini revival of a series thought to be dead by Japan after the complete failure of Nine. Strange Journey and the IV games coming to DS consoles really meant that at least the western fanbase for SMT had to start over with games like SMT IV and many of the original fans of Nocturne never ended up getting those. Nahobino in Smash will massively grow the western fanbase precisely because there is so much room for growth, especially when he is put next to Joker.

In Japan SMT V will easily be one of the best selling games of the year and have comparable sales to Persona 5 or even surpass it if it is good enough to bridge the smaller gap there. People in Japan don’t really see Persona and SMT as any more niche than the other, they either like both or they only like one while still understanding the other franchise is related to the one they like and attracts a similar customer base.

As gamers get older and more tired of light hearted adventures SMT’s appeal will continue to grow, especially now that the cultural stigma behind demonic iconography is gone.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

W Willbuysmash4mw let me see if I have your argument right.

Nintendo meant to have Pass 1 consist of 4 characters. Hero, Banjo, Terry, and Nahobino.

SMT V was delayed however, and this plan couldn’t work. So Nintendo decided to replace Nahobino with Byleth and then added Joker as a plus for whatever reason.

Then, Nintendo decided to make and structure Pass 2 around SMT Vs release date so Nahobino would be the last character and promote the game just in time.

If I have your logic wrong, please correct me.

If I have your logic right. Please provide proof that this was what occurred. Not some coincidence that 3 Houses and SMT V were in development around the same time. Some real, irrefutable proof that proves for a fact Nintendo has signed off on 7 other characters specifically because of Nahobino.