Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Faso115]

Strangely, outside of maybe Arms, Pokemon didn't get their "protagonist" till Brawl.

It's been a established rule that one of the protagonist has to come first in order for other side-characters to join. Mario (and Luigi, i guess he is equally important) got first before Peach and Bowser), Link before Zelda and Ganon, Fox before Falco, etc.

Only pokemon broke that trend and that's mostly because the trainer isn't really part of the battles and it wasn't till the Pokemon Trainer concept was created than we actually got one of the protagonist of the Pokemon series.

Now ensemble casts are another can of worms. That's why Min-Min is in a kind of weird position.

 

[Dinoman96]

But they are wildly different things.
In Duck Hunt the mascot is the antagonist.

Remember that it's not even really just the Duck Hunt dog, it's also the duck and the 4th person shooter with the Zapper.

I always figured the whole reason why the character is called "Duck Hunt" (outside of the borked PAL translations) is because it's meant to be an encapsulation of the DH game as a whole in Smash form, with all three main entities (the dog, the duck, and the shooter) fighting together as one character.

Strangely, outside of maybe Arms, Pokemon didn't get their "protagonist" till Brawl.

It's been a established rule that one of the protagonist has to come first in order for other side-characters to join. Mario (and Luigi, i guess he is equally important) got first before Peach and Bowser), Link before Zelda and Ganon, Fox before Falco, etc.

Only pokemon broke that trend and that's mostly because the trainer isn't really part of the battles and it wasn't till the Pokemon Trainer concept was created than we actually got one of the protagonist of the Pokemon series.

Now ensemble casts are another can of worms. That's why Min-Min is in a kind of weird position.

The Pokemon Trainer concept obviously wasn't feasible back in Smash 64, so that's why they just settled on it being repped by the Pokemon themselves for the time.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Give me Sol Badguy since he;s from an fighting game and has an bladed weapon, an win-win

He's also anime

 

[Mamboo07]

Just wondering what requested characters are you sick of seeing everywhere?
(You know, the ones on people's fighter passes and most wanted list.)

 

[Perkilator]

Just wondering what requested characters are you sick of seeing everywhere?
(You know, the ones on people's fighter passes and most wanted list.)

Waluigi, Doom Slayer, Urshifu, etc.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Just wondering what requested characters are you sick of seeing everywhere?
(You know, the ones on people's fighter passes and most wanted list.)

All your favourites specifically. Can't stand them, nor the favourites of the poster you probably took this from

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Just wondering what requested characters are you sick of seeing everywhere?
(You know, the ones on people's fighter passes and most wanted list.)

Hayabusa, tbh

I just don’t see his appeal at all

 

[SpecterFlower]

Just wondering what requested characters are you sick of seeing everywhere?
(You know, the ones on people's fighter passes and most wanted list.)

Crash, Ryu, Doomguy

90-% of passes have at least one of these guy's. even if I like the game's they're from the general fandom has stopped me from ever wanting these characters.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Just wondering what requested characters are you sick of seeing everywhere?
(You know, the ones on people's fighter passes and most wanted list.)

Goku.

Why is that even a thing? Popularity? Especially when Sakurai has gone on to say no non-gaming characters especially being Smash is about celebrating game and this would ruin what makes it Smash.

Whelp may as well request Batman because he's popular too.

Also, any assist characters like Waluigi, Shadow, and such.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Just wondering what requested characters are you sick of seeing everywhere?
(You know, the ones on people's fighter passes and most wanted list.)

I don't like Reimu or Dragonborn.

 

[Firox]

So what you're saying is that this quote

About the first game in a franchise to use a different control scheme and shake up the formula in decades doesn't count as you saying it doesn't shake it up while the rest of that post acted like it barely changed anything? And when corrected you act like it doesn't actually matter because you didn't like it? Ok then. That says all I need to know

How is using a different control scheme "shaking up the formula"? This sounds like a highly biased subjective opinion. The fact that you throw away others' opinions while acting like your own is gospel says all I need to know. Try following the conversation sometime instead of grabbing quotes out of context and pretending like you have it all figured out. The entire debate was over the magnitude of how different BotW was and the only major conclusion that was agreed upon was the fact that the game had a more seamless open world and a non-linear story. Then I pointed out the multitude of inferiorities the game had to its predecessors citing the lack of large-scale dungeons, distinct boss fights, the use of special items and an almost total lack of music. None of these points have been directly refuted except by counter opinions that the open world and non-linear structure of the game were good enough to compensate. Then you throw around random assertions like different control schemes like it's some revolutionary thing and that that somehow invalidates everything else I said. Oh yeah, you sure know how to debate.

 

[Speed Weed]

Just wondering what requested characters are you sick of seeing everywhere?
(You know, the ones on people's fighter passes and most wanted list.)

absolutely hate any character that isn't Opa-Opa

please ignore my signature

 

[I.D.]

Just wondering what requested characters are you sick of seeing everywhere?
(You know, the ones on people's fighter passes and most wanted list.)

I am sick and tired of sgt. Cortez

TIME TO (NOT) SPLIT

 

[NotGenerico]

Who exactly owns the rights for the Hyrule Warriors characters? I always thought Nintendo had complete ownership, but the Spirit Event has Koei Tecmo listed as part of their copyright.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Who exactly owns the rights for the Hyrule Warriors characters? I always thought Nintendo had complete ownership, but the Spirit Event has Koei Tecmo listed as part of their copyright.

I believe the HW characters are all Nintendo’s. KT just develops the games, being the owner of the Dynasty Warriors IP and spin-offs such as the Gundam one

 

[I.D.]

Who exactly owns the rights for the Hyrule Warriors characters? I always thought Nintendo had complete ownership, but the Spirit Event has Koei Tecmo listed as part of their copyright.

Most likely co-owned.

 

[GalacticPetey]

Crash, Ryu, Doomguy

90-% of passes have at least one of these guy's. even if I like the game's they're from the general fandom has stopped me from ever wanting these characters.

This line of thinking has always confused me. When people say they no longer want characters because they're talked about so much. What other people request has never really had much bearing on me. I'm not gonna suddenly stop liking Doomguy because a bunch of people also want him. That just sounds like being contrarian for the sake of it.

I've seen this a few times with a lot of the really popular characters. Suddenly people don't want them because they're too requested now, which makes no sense to me. The closest I've come to this I guess has been Smash 4 Ridley or Ultimate Geno where I just want Sakurai to go ahead and rip off the band aid because it was getting too toxic and hectic. Even then, those were outliers and I still kept supporting Ridley. Geno I've always been indifferent to so I was just glad to have closure one way or another.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

We shouldn’t care if someone is annoying of the most talked characters because in reality we are the minority of smash fanbase.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

When the opportunity arises again, Skull Kid should hopefully be the frontrunner Zelda character once again. He certainly made a splash in speculation prerelease. Maybe he can again. Dibs on the support thread though since it will be a new game when the time comes

Ah if we want this to work, we need to start now.

If we start drumming up support by the time a new game rolls is announced, the roster will have already be determined.

That's the whole thing with popularity. It has to be BEFORE the roster is decided.

It's particularly bizarre when you remember that nearly half of the Mario roster is composed of supporting characters who got the bulk of their popularity via spinoffs ( ) and a generic mook.



Name is fake because it sounds normal - a phrase that would make sense in a regular context. It needs to make less sense to stand up to Nomura's standards.



Hot take: Zelda is Nintendo's third biggest series, not some obscure one-off game. Fans shouldn't have to scream into the void for years just to get one new rep. If we haven't got one (especially considering the aforementioned Mario roster selection), there's something wrong with the selection process, not with the fans.

While I agree with you... so what?

You could literally say the same for any ballot pick.

 

[Lionfranky]

Master Chief is certainly an interesting choice, but it does make sense considering that it does have a decent fanbase (In Japan) and it's one of the more popular Xbox series in Japan (Which ain't saying much honestly). But Famitsu is Japan's biggest gaming magazine right? If so then this is notable indeed.

Will people shut up about Japan being too much of roadblock for Chief?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Just wondering what requested characters are you sick of seeing everywhere?
(You know, the ones on people's fighter passes and most wanted list.)

I'm not sick of specific characters, but rather specific reasons that people want characters.

Anyone who suggests a third-party character is a frontrunner for "shilling" purposes (best example right now being Monster Hunter because Rise) just irks me.

The anniversary argument also bugs me because of how it's constantly used despite the near-nonexistent precedence it has for newcomers in both Smash 4 and Ultimate.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Just wondering what requested characters are you sick of seeing everywhere?
(You know, the ones on people's fighter passes and most wanted list.)

This seems like the question made by someone who won't let others enjoy things.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Just wondering what requested characters are you sick of seeing everywhere?
(You know, the ones on people's fighter passes and most wanted list.)

Rex and Pyra, Impa, Chun Li, Other secondary characters I do not favor.
Just about all 'fan rule' myths.

This seems like the question made by someone who won't let others enjoy things.

Irony?
A lot of people enjoy complaining.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

someone who won't let others enjoy things.

Sounds like you summed up a good chunk of the speculation scene.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Just wondering what requested characters are you sick of seeing everywhere?
(You know, the ones on people's fighter passes and most wanted list.)

Dr. Goomba Tower Stack

Dumb stupid shill pick. Dr. Dry Bowser deserves the slot more

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Sounds like you summed up a good chunk of the speculation scene.

You joke, but this is the unfortunate turn its taken in the last few years.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

You joke, but this is the unfortunate turn its taken in the last few years.

I was using that emote to hide my sadness over that truth

 

[pupNapoleon]

You joke, but this is the unfortunate turn its taken in the last few years.

From my POV, it has been that way for as long as I can recall. At least since Brawl speculation.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I am sick and tired of sgt. Cortez

TIME TO (NOT) SPLIT

Bottom text

 

[Swamp Sensei]

From my POV, it has been that way for as long as I can recall. At least since Brawl speculation.

We didn't have questions as pointlessly petty as "who do you not want because other people want them?"

Like seriously... that's essentially what the question boils down to.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

You know the thing about Hayabusa being in Smash? He'd be SIMULTANEOUSLY a retro rep (NES Ninja Gaiden), a fighting game rep (Dead or Alive aka the biggest reason I even care), AND a Warriors rep (Orochi Ultimate whatever).

He ticks all them boxes at once! Ninja Gaiden (both incarnations), Dead or Alive (YES) and Warriors all at once with ONE dude: Hayabusa! (also a shill pick if Ninja Gaiden Sigma Trilogy for Switch really is a thing coming out around the time he comes to Smash)

 

[Guynamednelson]

I'm not sick of specific characters, but rather specific reasons that people want characters.

Anyone who suggests a third-party character is a frontrunner for "shilling" purposes (best example right now being Monster Hunter because Rise) just irks me.

The anniversary argument also bugs me because of how it's constantly used despite the near-nonexistent precedence it has for newcomers in both Smash 4 and Ultimate.

If Monster Hunter gets in, it's gonna be because it's a popular series. Simple as that.

This line of thinking has always confused me. When people say they no longer want characters because they're talked about so much. What other people request has never really had much bearing on me. I'm not gonna suddenly stop liking Doomguy because a bunch of people also want him. That just sounds like being contrarian for the sake of it.

I may consider Doomguy to be a generic prediction that ignores Id Software saying he's not in, but I'm still gonna play plenty of Doom WADs.

 

[pupNapoleon]

We didn't have questions as pointlessly petty as "who do you not want because other people want them?"

Like seriously... that's essentially what the question boils down to.

I don't interpret it that way.
I think the perspective is a bit negative in your take, quite frankly.
To me- it has nothing to do with what other people want, but rather, the rare instances of things I just would prefer not to see in the game. Some level of a perimeter to stay within in terms of picks.
It's no more a conversation than all the limitations that are discussed ad nauseum in the first place. Or the debates where people constantly feel the need to shut others' opinions down (which is almost any statement made in the first place).
To me, it's just a direct question rather than the passive aggressive attacks that are constantly made towards people.

I much appreciate the bluntness versus the imperial nature of many responses.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

If Monster Hunter gets in, it's gonna be because it's a popular series. Simple as that.

Exactly. And those who expect the moveset to be entirely based on Rise and be Fighter 9 to time with the game's release are having very unrealistic expectations when Sakurai prefers playing the game before implimenting anything from an upcoming game.

It's the reason why Byleth was Fighter 5 despite being decided nearly a year before Three Houses' release and the same could be applied to Corrin too due to Fates having been released in Japan months before her release in Smash 4.

And if he impliments stuff from an upcoming game, it's typically a very small portion of the moveset, like Joker getting the grappling hook from Royale.

Why would Monster Hunter be any different with a Rise protagonist?

ARMS and Xenoblade 2 didn't get characters for base game because they were revealed too late to be considered as well, but people think a Rise protag is a frontrunner despite the game being announced a whole year after Pass 2 was decided?

It's almost like people never listen to Sakurai or something.

 

[3BitSaurus]

While I agree with you... so what?

You could literally say the same for any ballot pick.

True, but the difference is that most ballot picks aren't literally from one of Nintendo's top 3 series. A few of them wouldn't have gotten in if not for that fan support.

With Zelda, there's seemingly no real reason for why it has to be this way. Like, Mario's support base is also divided between several characters, but that didn't stop it from getting 4 newcomers since Brawl (2 of which are supporting cast and 1 being a generic mook).

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

With Zelda, there's seemingly no real reason for why it has to be this way. Like, Mario's support base is also divided between several characters, but that didn't stop it from getting 4 newcomers since Brawl.

To be fair with Mario, its cast tends to be consistent, typically appearing in multiple games after they're introduced, unlike Zelda where it's exceedingly rare to see returning characters that aren't Impa or a Triforce wielder.

Still not much of an excuse for why Zelda is like this though, since there's no shortage of one-off first-party reps (literally any FE rep but Marth and Ike, both Mother characters, Sheik, etc.), just pointing out that comparing Zelda to Mario isn't a fair thing to do.

 

[PeridotGX]

Robin and Lucina are weird, they aren't one-offs but the reason they aren't is a direct result of them being in Smash in the first place. Fates and Codename STEAM had them as unlockables from the amiibo that wouldn't exist if they weren't in Smash.

 

[Dinoman96]

Still not much of an excuse for why Zelda is like this though, since there's no shortage of one-off first-party reps (literally any FE rep but Marth and Ike, both Mother characters, Sheik, etc.), just pointing out that comparing Zelda to Mario isn't a fair thing to do.

The vast majority of those one-offs are either the main character of their game, a clone that took far less time to develop, or in Sheik's case, an alternate form of a far more prominent character (Zelda). Like I said, they have asterisks surrounding them.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Robin and Lucina are weird, they aren't one-offs but the reason they aren't is a direct result of them being in Smash in the first place. Fates and Codename STEAM had them as unlockables from the amiibo that wouldn't exist if they weren't in Smash.

No, by all means, they're one offs, the term doesn't neccesarily refer to a literal single appearance but in this case it refers to the franchise having a rotating cast meaning the liklihood they'll have a major role in thw main series is next to none

 

[WeirdChillFever]

The vast majority of those one-offs are either the main character of their game, a clone that took far less time to develop, or in Sheik's case, an alternate form of a far more prominent character (Zelda). Like I said, they have asterisks surrounding them.

Or a Pokémon, or from Fire Emblem, or a famous villain etc. I really don‘t think Zelda characters are off the table for being one-offs when the asterisks keep piling up and it’s lowkey a stupid rule anyway. Regardless of their appearance status, Midna or Skull Kid definitely made an impact.