Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[SKX31]

I mean, he still has to worry about not exploding if he hits ANYTHING.

Come to think of it, aren't F-Zero races considered "controversial" in-universe because of the, uh, mortality rate? Might not be worth it to steal that one...

I mean, Nintendo have not been that concerned over the F-Zero Canon, but Consults the F-Zero Bible we know that F-Zero racers do race with gambling money. Falcon does get roped into one such race in GX's Chapter 3.

And as GX confirmed, whenever a car hit something or falls of course they either just retire, or a UFO filled with Chao rescue and repair it. This proves that Sonic is canon to the Nintendo multiverse. (Edit: Damnit, they'll always be Chao in my heart.)

I think the best thing that could be done for Kirby would be to make the Copy Abilities coincide with canon Copy Abilities that alter his normals slightly. That way they could tailor the Copy Abilities to specific versions of Kirby's Moveset instead of trying to make sure Kirby's base moveset doesn't break when you slap a little under 82 different Special Moves onto it. That and make Inhale a bit better. It shouldn't be a big event when a character manages lands their signature move.

I'm not sure if potential breakage is much of an issue when Sakurai and co have been pretty damn careful about that, but I can certainly agree that Inhale could use improvements. It's a missed opportunity that they haven't taken a cue from Kirby Triple Deluxe and included the upgraded Inhale as a charge version. Where, sure, you'll be more vurnerable because you have to charge it, but in return at least a bit more range.

It's honestly a pretty big and important difference between Kirby and Dota 2's Rubick - Rubick's Spell Steal has a lot of range. Even if it takes a few seconds for Rubick to get the copy, it's oftentimes worth it to sit on the periphery and yoink the spell.

Speaking of copy abilities, I do wish they had done something similar with Mega Man. Gaining the powers of bosses you defeat is one of the main defining features of the games. It would have been cool if he gained a special of an enemy he KO’d or something to that effect. That may have stepped on Kirby’s gimmick a bit too much though.

It's not a bad idea in theory - but it's also wonky to fit into Megaman's existing moveset. Do you replace one of the B moves (which is a bit wonky since Metal Blade is incredibly versatile, Crash Bomber is a bit more situational but potent pressure tool, Leaf Shield is commital but can really annoy and discombobulate opponents)? Or would it be a fighter ability of sorts? It's difficult since Megaman as he currently is is a well-rounded but potent character.

I'm waiting for the day when a developer, when asked about if they want their character in Smash, says "**** no, I'm not putting a character in that ****ty game".

"I've always preferred PlayStation All-Stars, suckers!"

 

[Louie G.]

Well, if we were able to take part, I’d like to see a battle between Sephiroth and Ryu Hayabusa. And of course, Link too. We’re waiting for our invite.

Well this is entirely different in that context. The fact that he repeated “we’re waiting for our invite” makes it seem like a rehearsed response to the question.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Alright, this whole “did they mention Smash” in that Hayabusa interview has me seriously confused, can someone link back to the article in question?

 

[Sari]

The interviewer did mention Smash, though.

That was a different interview.

In the Nintendo Wire interview, he brought up Smash without being asked.

Interview - Talking Ninja Gaiden with Fumihiko Yasuda and Makoto Shibata

Few developers have an action pedigree quite like Team Ninja. Known for supremely and entertainingly difficult titles like Ninja Gaiden and Nioh, they’ve also

nintendowire.com

Nintendo Wire:
Ryu has crossed over into plenty of other games, from Dead or Alive to Warriors All-Stars, even Nioh itself! Hypothetically, where would you like to see him go next?

Yasuda:
If he could appear in Super Smash Bros… I’d be ecstatic! I’m waiting for our invite.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It's a missed opportunity that they haven't taken a cue from Kirby Triple Deluxe and included the upgraded Inhale as a charge version.

Wasn't that a Kirby's Return to Dreamland thing? I don't remember that being in subsequent games, unless you're talking about Hyper Nova, which is Final Smash material.

EDIT: Hypernova would probably be simultaneously the coolest and most boring Final Smash depending on how many inhaleable things are on the screen.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

"I've always preferred PlayStation All-Stars, suckers!"

Amazing how this gets said when talking about a character who got scrapped in that very game

 

[NotGenerico]

Quick question, was this just multiple sources reporting the same interview or is he saying the same thing over and over again? If it's just the same thing, nothing changes, but it'd be pretty weird if he kept saying the same thing every time someone interviews him.

From what I have seen there's been three different interviews where the topic of Hayabusa in Smash came up. Those being Famitsu, Nintendo Wire and JPGames. I'll try to summarize their contents in relation to Smash.

Famitsu: Yasuda gets asked directly if Hayabusa will show up in Smash. He first says that they're waiting for the invitation here.
Nintendo Wire: He's asked if he'd like to see Hayabusa cross over into other games. He mentions Smash Bros unprompted as his answer.
JPGames: He gets asked about what characters he'd like to see Ryu fight in Smash. He answers with Sephiroth and Link.

He says that he's waiting for the invitation in all three interviews.

 

[Louie G.]

That was a different interview.

In the Nintendo Wire interview, he brought up Smash without being asked.

Technically he was asked though, I don’t think responding about Smash in reference to another potential crossover is the damning statement that people are suggesting it is. It’s a pretty normal answer and doesn’t allude one way or the other to if he will or not. And when people keep asking about Smash in the first place, I think it’s reasonable that may be the first response that comes to mind.

I think the key context to these things is like the “that would be cool” response vs the “make it happen!!!” response, most of these Hayabusa answers just saying it would be good to see which I don’t think goes against any sort of potential NDA.

Again though, hate this interview speculation stuff because it’s some of the most redundant discussion and we’ll probably never agree on what it means until they say outright that Hayabusa is not in.

 

[SKX31]

Amazing how this gets said when talking about a character who got scrapped in that very game

Entirely unintentional, actually. Had initially forgotten that PSASBR leak.

Wasn't that a Kirby's Return to Dreamland thing? I don't remember that being in subsequent games, unless you're talking about Hyper Nova, which is Final Smash material.

EDIT: Hypernova would probably be simultaneously the coolest and most boring Final Smash depending on how many inhaleable things are on the screen.

Well, Kirby Wiki to the rescue:

In Kirby & The Amazing Mirror and Kirby: Squeak Squad, Kirby can only inhale for a certain amount of time—but after inhaling for a while, it becomes a Super Inhale, which has slightly more range and strength, allowing him to inhale Large Enemies, Large Star Blocks, and Heave Ho Blocks.

In Kirby's Return to Dream Land and the New Challenge Stages in Kirby's Dream Collection Special Edition, the Super Inhale becomes even more powerful. Kirby performs it if, while holding button 1, the player shakes the Wii Remote or presses the buttons on the Wii Remote's +Control Pad repeatedly. It has further range, and allows Kirby to inhale the Heave Ho Blocks instead of moving them, as well as all enemies, 1UPs, food, and even other players, and spit them out as a star; how large the star is depends on how many objects Kirby inhaled. Very large stars roll through enemies and only stop when they hit a wall.

Kirby: Triple Deluxe, Kirby: Planet Robobot, and Kirby Star Allies utilize the method seen in Kirby & The Amazing Mirror and Kirby: Squeak Squad, although Kirby can Super Inhale indefinitely, similarly to Kirby's Return to Dream Land. However, it barely increases in range and doesn't have a noticeable impact in terms of power.

That's in addition to Triple Deluxe introducing Hypernova, yes. I just associated it with Triple Deluxe.

Well, I guess it's time to add Super Inhale to the list of "Kirby stuff Sakurai and co. could include without any huge issues, but doesn't for whatever reason". Spitballing a possible reason - maybe it's because Inhale isn't that bad casually...? Shrugs It's the best explanation right off my mind since Sakurai always has casual play in mind.

 

[SharkLord]

Wasn't that a Kirby's Return to Dreamland thing? I don't remember that being in subsequent games, unless you're talking about Hyper Nova, which is Final Smash material.

EDIT: Hypernova would probably be simultaneously the coolest and most boring Final Smash depending on how many inhaleable things are on the screen.

If we get a Hypernova Final Smash, Kirby needs to just straight-up inhale your UI itself if he kills you, just like when you use it on the boss fights.

 

[Sari]

Technically he was asked though, I don’t think responding about Smash in reference to another potential crossover is the damning statement that people are suggesting it is. It’s a pretty normal answer and doesn’t allude one way or the other to if he will or not.

I think the key context to these things is like the “that would be cool” response vs the “make it happen!!!” response.

Again though, hate this interview speculation stuff because it’s some of the most redundant discussion and we’ll probably never agree on what it means until they say outright that Hayabusa is not in.

For me it's less of the Smash mention and more of the "I'm waiting for our invite part" that I think does it.

It is interesting though that he does use that exact same phrase in all 3 interviews. Maybe it's the blank response he thought up beforehand in case someone asks about it since it's actually happening? Or maybe he's just sick of people asking and is being blunt that Hayabusa isn't happening.

Either way, interviews are definitely one of the worst parts of Smash speculation since there are so many ways to perceive them. I feel like interviewers shouldn't be allowed to ask the question at all, but I guess that doesn't rack up as many clicks for their articles.

 

[Gengar84]

I mean, Nintendo have not been that concerned over the F-Zero Canon, but Consults the F-Zero Bible we know that F-Zero racers do race with gambling money. Falcon does get roped into one such race in GX's Chapter 3.

And as GX confirmed, whenever a car hit something or falls of course they either just retire, or a UFO filled with Chao rescue and repair it. This proves that Sonic is canon to the Nintendo multiverse.



I'm not sure if potential breakage is much of an issue when Sakurai and co have been pretty damn careful about that, but I can certainly agree that Inhale could use improvements. It's a missed opportunity that they haven't taken a cue from Kirby Triple Deluxe and included the upgraded Inhale as a charge version. Where, sure, you'll be more vurnerable because you have to charge it, but in return at least a bit more range.

It's honestly a pretty big and important difference between Kirby and Dota 2's Rubick - Rubick's Spell Steal has a lot of range. Even if it takes a few seconds for Rubick to get the copy, it's oftentimes worth it to sit on the periphery and yoink the spell.



It's not a bad idea in theory - but it's also wonky to fit into Megaman's existing moveset. Do you replace one of the B moves (which is a bit wonky since Metal Blade is incredibly versatile, Crash Bomber is a bit more situational but potent pressure tool, Leaf Shield is commital but can really annoy and discombobulate opponents)? Or would it be a fighter ability of sorts? It's difficult since Megaman as he currently is is a well-rounded but potent character.



"I've always preferred PlayStation All-Stars, suckers!"

That’s the main issue. Sakurai already made a good moveset for him so it’s difficult to fit that ideas into his existing moveset. In the games, it replaces his main weapon sour would make sense to change his A moves somehow but I have no idea how that would work. Maybe Down B would change between his weapon he uses for his A moves but that’s a whole new moveset at that point. I also think it would have been cool if his charge shot worked like the games just holding the button and being able to move around until you released it instead of a forward smash but that may have been broken.

 

[kylexv]

It's possible that Nintendo could have contacted Koei Tecmo but not Team Ninja, since Koei Tecmo owns the character. I wouldn't count Hayabusa out yet.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It's not a bad idea in theory - but it's also wonky to fit into Megaman's existing moveset. Do you replace one of the B moves (which is a bit wonky since Metal Blade is incredibly versatile, Crash Bomber is a bit more situational but potent pressure tool, Leaf Shield is commital but can really annoy and discombobulate opponents)? Or would it be a fighter ability of sorts? It's difficult since Megaman as he currently is is a well-rounded but potent character.

I think it's a great idea to give Mega Man something similar in the next Marvel Vs. Capcom, but I'm not as in love with it in Super Smash Bros. For one thing, this would probably cause there to be a move that does nothing at the beginning of the match. There's no guarantee that the Mega Man player will K.O. an opponent, which means lower skilled players wouldn't be able to have as much fun with him. On the flip side, you now have to deal with 7 or 8 different weapons, which is quite a lot for anything but a selection wheel, and even then...

It also wouldn't really make sense for Mega Man's opponents to give him existing Robot Master weapons since these weapons are character specific to their Robot Master, which means we're back to making 82 different attacks for a single move. And then there's the issue of what to replace with it. I think Leaf Shield would have to be replaced with the weapon select move, and then you'd have to have the attack swap out Metal Blade, or the Mega Buster. Probably the Metal Blade since some of these abilities would be pretty non-intuitive in an actual Mega Man game I think (like, Shulk's main things are Monado Arts and Visions, neither of which would work as a jab).

The Mega Man costumes would be super neat though. Of course, that brings yet another hurdle since instead of just giving Kirby a hat or hair, you're redesigning Mega Man 81 times (82 if other Mega Mans on the field yield Mega Ball or something).

Well, Kirby Wiki to the rescue:

Ah, so it does exist in later games, but it may as well not. lol

It's possible that Nintendo could have contacted Koei Tecmo but not Team Ninja, since Koei Tecmo owns the character.

Since Sakurai said he tends to meet with developers to make sure the moveset is accurate, I kind of doubt this.

 

[Gengar84]

I think it's a great idea to give Mega Man something similar in the next Marvel Vs. Capcom, but I'm not as in love with it in Super Smash Bros. For one thing, this would probably cause there to be a move that does nothing at the beginning of the match. There's no guarantee that the Mega Man player will K.O. an opponent, which means lower skilled players wouldn't be able to have as much fun with him. On the flip side, you now have to deal with 7 or 8 different weapons, which is quite a lot for anything but a selection wheel, and even then...

It also wouldn't really make sense for Mega Man's opponents to give him existing Robot Master weapons since these weapons are character specific to their Robot Master, which means we're back to making 82 different attacks for a single move. And then there's the issue of what to replace with it. I think Leaf Shield would have to be replaced with the weapon select move, and then you'd have to have the attack swap out Metal Blade, or the Mega Buster. Probably the Metal Blade since some of these abilities would be pretty non-intuitive in an actual Mega Man game I think (like, Shulk's main things are Monado Arts and Visions, neither of which would work as a jab).

The Mega Man costumes would be super neat though. Of course, that brings yet another hurdle since instead of just giving Kirby a hat or hair, you're redesigning Mega Man 81 times (82 if other Mega Mans on the field yield Mega Ball or something).


Ah, so it does exist in later games, but it may as well not. lol


Since Sakurai said he tends to meet with developers to make sure the moveset is accurate, I kind of doubt this.

I think the best solution to make his buster his neutral B and have it work normally until he KOs an opponent. At which point, he could switch between his normal gun and whoever’s weapon he KO’d by using his down B. This would make it so his move wouldn’t be useless before he KO’s anyone. Mega man would also be easier than Kirby for edits since his are just palate swaps. Then again, This would be a whole different moveset so maybe the idea is best saved for X.

 

[drag0nscythe]

I am counting Hayabusa out. I find him boring. Lets hope for a more interesting chracter.

 

[cashregister9]

I cannot in good faith call any character with an Izuna drop boring, that **** is radical.

 

[Louie G.]

I am counting Hayabusa out. I find him boring. Lets hope for a more interesting chracter.

If your reasons for disqualifying a character are that you personally find them boring you’re not doing this speculation thing correctly.

 

[Guynamednelson]

or a UFO filled with Chao

Or so you thought.

 

[2006ToyotaTacoma]

I cannot in good faith call any character with an Izuna drop boring, that **** is radical.

The Virgin Izuna Drop vs the Chad Fox Spirit Slam

This post was made by Amaterasu gang

 

[SWSU]

Not sure this is like a 100% Elimination for Hyabusa's chances. But it is Definitely more damaging than the first article.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Okay, so we still have Crash (for now), but now who's gonna be our second main third party rep?

 

[osby]

I am counting Hayabusa out. I find him boring. Lets hope for a more interesting chracter.

I am counting your most wanted character out. I find them boring. Lets hope for my most wanted character.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Yeah, RIP ‘Busa. With pass 2 already decided and nearing its end, this def is the nail in the coffin that to me implies they straight up weren’t contacted

Nah. It's all a misdirect. The fact that he's now repeating it unprompted is big "methinks thou doth protest too much" energy.

I asked this last week but I don’t think anyone saw because the discussion was moving so fast. If this does in fact mean Hyabusa isn’t happening, who do you think the current front runners for NES/retro reps are. I’m kind of leaning towards Bill Rizer and the Battletoads but I may just be bias because they are some of my most wanted (Battletoads are actually my number 1 most wanted).

Bill Rizer, yes.

It's just me, but I feel like we're just about maxed out on 'retro' picks.

It's just you being WRONG!

 

[Perkilator]

Okay, so we still have Crash (for now), but now who's gonna be our second main third party rep?

My heart says Sora, but my brain has no ****ing clue (for all we know, it could be another 1st party as one of our last two fighters).

 

[SKX31]

Or so you thought.

...

Inner 14 year old me cries.

Nooo, Chao in Space GX didn't happen! What am I supposed to believe now?

I am counting your most wanted character out. I find them boring. Lets hope for my most wanted character.

Fado de My Most Wanted* (I'm sorry Speed Weed):

*("Fate of" if I'm not mistaken)

 

[PeridotGX]

Bill Rizer, yes.

It's just you being WRONG!

How DarthEnder finds characters to like

 

[chocolatejr9]

How DarthEnder finds characters to like
View attachment 309260

Hey, at least we're not talking about card game reps in Smash. I don't think we're ready for THAT can of worms...

 

[DarthEnderX]

How DarthEnder finds characters to like
View attachment 309260

I grew up when these fossils still roamed the earth...

 

[Technomage]

I asked this last week but I don’t think anyone saw because the discussion was moving so fast. If this does in fact mean Hyabusa isn’t happening, who do you think the current front runners for NES/retro reps are. I’m kind of leaning towards Bill Rizer and the Battletoads but I may just be bias because they are some of my most wanted (Battletoads are actually my number 1 most wanted).

Hmmmm, I think the current possible options are:

Battletoads
Bimmy and Jammy Billy and Jimmy Lee
Bub and Bob
Main character from Star Tropics
Paperboy
Contra guy Bill Rizer
Blaster Master

Hey, at least we're not talking about card game reps in Smash. I don't think we're ready for THAT can of worms...

What about card game reps that started out as games (such as Culdcept)?

 

[osby]

Okay, so we still have Crash (for now), but now who's gonna be our second main third party rep?

I'm just saying, if Castlevania can't get a playable vampire, Tsukihime is right there.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I grew up when these fossils still roamed the earth...

When your the only guy in his 40s on a board full of teenagers and people in their 20s/30s.

 

[Gengar84]

Hmmmm, I think the current possible options are:

Battletoads
Bill Rizer
Bimmy and Jammy Billy and Jimmy Lee
Bub and Bob
Main character from Star Tropics
Paperboy
Contra guy
Blaster Master



What about card game reps that started out as games (such as Culdcept)?

Bill Rizer is Contra guy

 

[DarthEnderX]

Battletoads
Bill Rizer
Bimmy and Jammy Billy and Jimmy Lee
Bub and Bob
Main character from Star Tropics
Paperboy
Contra guy
Blaster Master

Bill Rizer IS the Contra guy.

Main character from Star Tropics

Mike Jones.

When your the only guy in his 40s on a board full of teenagers and people in their 20s/30s.

 

[cashregister9]

I'm just saying, if Castlevania can't get a playable vampire, Tsukihime is right there.

I mean there is that Tsukihime remake and the new Melty Blood game

 

[Gengar84]

When your the only guy in his 40s on a board full of teenagers and people in their 20s/30s.

Hey, I’ll be 37 next month so I’m not far behind you lol.

 

[Technomage]

Replying to that card game rep comment has got me thinking: What genres have not been repped in the playable roster, yet? There's card video games, horror games, visual novels,, MMOs, Western RPGs, RTS games, and even hentai games (though I know the last one ain't gonna happen).

 

[3BitSaurus]

Replying to that card game rep comment has got me thinking: What genres have not been repped in the playable roster, yet? There's card video games, horror games, visual novels,, MMOs, Western RPGs, RTS games, and even hentai games (though I know the last one ain't gonna happen).

MOBAs, puzzle (come on, Dr. Mario barely counts as he is) and FPS are a few that come to mind as well.

 

[Clumsyzephyr]

Replying to that card game rep comment has got me thinking: What genres have not been repped in the playable roster, yet? There's card video games, horror games, visual novels,, MMOs, Western RPGs, RTS games, and even hentai games (though I know the last one ain't gonna happen).

Can I say rhythm and shamelessly plug my thread?

 

[Technomage]

MOBAs, puzzle (come on, Dr. Mario barely counts as he is) and FPS are a few that come to mind as well.

Actually, I think the shooter genre is already repped by Samus and Snake.