Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Rie Sonomura]

It certainly seems that way. I’ve never played Ninja Gaiden but I always kind of liked Ryu Hyabusa even if he is a little generic looking. I wonder if this also means that Lu Bu or any other Koei character are not happening either. I would have been really hyped for Lu Bu.

I wanted Ryza or an Atelier rep but that, too, was deconfirmed in a different interview

 

[RileyXY1]

Well, Koei Tecmo is now entirely out of the running, so who knows what will be coming now.

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

I'm getting the Mii costume feeling for Hayabusa.

 

[SKX31]

The fact that you brought up avoiding the nude scenes but not the violence reminds me of how annoyed I am with Western culture, especially American Western Culture, that is perfectly fine with bloody violence by utter disgusted by sexuality despite one being something horrible and the other being something perfectly natural..I'll never understand it.

That does not have a straight answer period.

Spoiler: Further explanation, spoilered due to length and off topic stuff

The differences in how sexuality and violence are separately percieved are complicated and multifaceted as all hell. Thing is, the Anglo-American view on those two topics may have its roots as far back as the 16th / 17th century. See this answer on AskHistorians, which talks about the "invention of privacy" as well as how police were initially unable to enforce public decorum. The more conservative notions on sexuality slowly but surely set in from there. Doesn't mean people didn't talk about it, of course, but it was much less in the public arena.

It's also important to remember that - and least in the UK and the US - the concept of "public" and "private" spheres survived in some form well past the 19th century, when those concepts were lifted up as ideals. The "public" and "private" spheres drove a lot of ideas regarding how men and women respectively were "supposed to" behave, Of course, societal changes leading up to the 1960s and beyond began to change public perception of sexuality - but sexuality is still very much a private matter for the most part.

Violence was also heavily targeted by moral guardians and public discourse, but not as much as sexuality. That's not to say it wasn't targeted - Victorian moralists were heavily concerned with violence and disorderly conduct (a reason why the Jack the Ripper murders became so infamous fast), especially in connection to alcoholism. Concerns over violence in American media was likewise a present factor throughout the 19th and 20th centuries - Hays Code also targeted violence to some extent, as well as later censoring of Looney Tunes cartoons as examples. But one possible key difference is that violence was never fully treated as a private matter - violence was arguably always in the public eye, whether in real cases or in movies. The classic "Wilhelm Scream" comes after all from a guy getting bitten by an alligator in a war movie. That same scream was reused in quite a few Western movies, and became a staple with Star Wars.

Still, you only need to go back 30-40 years to find a very powerful Moral Guardian lobby - Moral Majority and related groups - concerned as all hell over both violence and sexuality (cartoons like the Get Along Gang were heavily affected by them), and as late as the 2000s you had people like Jack Thompson publicly targetting violence in video games (especially GTA and Mortal Kombat, but Thompson also targeted Doom). Similar groups still exist, mind, but they're no longer a driving force primarily because the Internet is so widespread and it's incredibly easy to find media - incl. video games - with violent / sexual content. Violent content does remain somewhat more visible, and violent content aren't treated as a private matter as much as sexual content is.

Again, this is primarily from the Anglo-American context. The European context is similar, but differ in a few areas.

To go back to Speculation (oh boy):

Yeah, RIP ‘Busa. With pass 2 already decided and nearing its end, this def is the nail in the coffin that to me implies they straight up weren’t contacted

Maybe they're gonna be the new Suda where it's suspicious if they don't say anything on the matter. lol


Hm, it is the same exact wording as before though. If they say it again I'm going to start suspecting that they're trying to indirectly hype up the reveal.

Not entirely sure if it's an absolute death knell when a SNK had a similar interview response prior to Terry's reveal, but it doesn't look that great either for Ryu since the response was unprovoked. While I'd advise some caution before coming to either conclusion, it may be a case where Nintendo has a lot of potential candidates for DLC and they'd have to prioritize a select number of characters - and any character is in wonky territory since slots are limited.

Which is a shame, since Ryu could certainly be an interesting character and the "Ninja" archetype still has quite a lot of design space to the point where they could certainly make a unique Ryu moveset. But then again, if the Steve negotiations taught us anything, it's that negotiating for a DLC slot in Smash can be as difficult as trying to cross an entire bridge level full with Ninja Gaiden birds.

 

[Gengar84]

I asked this last week but I don’t think anyone saw because the discussion was moving so fast. If this does in fact mean Hyabusa isn’t happening, who do you think the current front runners for NES/retro reps are. I’m kind of leaning towards Bill Rizer and the Battletoads but I may just be bias because they are some of my most wanted (Battletoads are actually my number 1 most wanted).

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

I asked this last week but I don’t think anyone saw because the discussion was moving so fast. If this does in fact mean Hyabusa isn’t happening, who do you think the current front runners for NES/retro reps are. I’m kind of leaning towards Bill Rizer and the Battletoads but I may just be bias because they are some of my most wanted (Battletoads are actually my number 1 most wanted).

Bill Rizer is the obvious choice. I can't see Battletoads because that's owned by Microsoft, and that depends on Microsoft double-dipping and them picking Battletoads before Chief if they do double dip.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Who does everyone here want for an RE Rep if one does somehow get in despite MH Miis and a Spirit event?

I most want Wesker, hes got my second favorite design of any RE character and it’d feel great destroying someone with his cocky attitude.

Honorable mention to Nemesis, the moveset potential is massive and his design is the objective best don’t @ me.

Unpopular opinion but I'm on the Chris train.

He's the most combat heavy(to the point he's almost Doomguy levels of punching his way out of problems recently) and rumours of him being werewolf'd only increase that.

Wesker I'd prefer as a second character...I always liked the Chris Vs. Wesker dynamic.

 

[Deleted member]

I asked this last week but I don’t think anyone saw because the discussion was moving so fast. If this does in fact mean Hyabusa isn’t happening, who do you think the current front runners for NES/retro reps are. I’m kind of leaning towards Bill Rizer and the Battletoads but I may just be bias because they are some of my most wanted (Battletoads are actually my number 1 most wanted).

Battletoads is more infamous than famous; not sure they're high on the potential list. It's just me, but I feel like we're just about maxed out on 'retro' picks.

On the other hand, the definition of 'retro' changes with age. SNES & N64 are both old enough to be lumped into that category. I think we're done with the NES, but the SNES and N64 potential is pretty high.

That being said, I still would place chances of our last two characters being from a series that debuted no earlier than the Gamecube.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Um...I don't really agree that Minecraft leant itself well to a fighting game's mechanics. It took a lot of creativity to make something cohesive out of it down to even just animating the character.

That being said, I love the idea of a steal mechanic. It would probably come in the form of a command grab Special Move that allows you to steal the opponent's currently held item, or an "item" themed off of the character they stole from, giving them a one use Special Move. This could give you some wacky things like:

• Materia: Allows the character to cast a spell.
• Dragon: Gives the character a laser.
• Junk Sword: Gives the character an Art that does more damage from the back.
• Gun/Blaster: Gives the character a gun.
• C4: Straight up gives them Snake's Down Special.

EDIT: So basically Kirby, but not as bad since multiple characters can give you the same thing.

To be clear, I meant that everyone and their mother pretty much knew that Steve would need a crafting mechanic of some sort. Interpretations changed on how it would be implemented, and tbh most fan movesets I saw were a jumbled incohesive mess compared to what we got, but I don't think anyone doubted he would have that if he came to Smash, because it's a major mechanical point of his game.

But yeah, I think what you're proposing makes some sense. Imagine if using Steal on Captain Falcon allows CJ (or whatever other GTA rep of your choice) to straight up use the Blue Falcon like he just stole a normal vehicle.

It would be weird, it would look like a bad GTA mod... but I bet people would eat it up lol.

 

[Dinoman96]

I asked this last week but I don’t think anyone saw because the discussion was moving so fast. If this does in fact mean Hyabusa isn’t happening, who do you think the current front runners for NES/retro reps are. I’m kind of leaning towards Bill Rizer and the Battletoads but I may just be bias because they are some of my most wanted (Battletoads are actually my number 1 most wanted).

I don't think any of them are lol

I certainly don't see the Toads getting in over Master Chief, if there even is another Microsoft character spot left this game.

 

[Gengar84]

I don't think any of them are lol

I certainly don't see the Toads getting in over Master Chief, if there even is another Microsoft character spot left this game.

Yeah, Master Chief is definitely the biggest hurdle for the Toads to actually make it in. He and Halo are way bigger than the Battletoads ever were. The only real advantage the Toads have is RARE’s history with Nintendo. I would like to think that still means something but these days I’m not so sure if it does anymore.

 

[Dinoman96]

Yeah, Master Chief is definitely the biggest hurdle for the Toads to actually make it in. He and Halo are way bigger than the Battletoads ever were. The only real advantage the Toads have is RARE’s history with Nintendo. I would like to think that still means something but these days I’m not so sure if it does anymore.

I think the problem is that none of Rare's characters, at least the ones owned by Microsoft now, really have anywhere near the same level of fan demand that Banjo & Kazooie did. That's really what got them in more than anything else.

 

[Gengar84]

I think the problem is that none of Rare's characters, at least the ones owned by Microsoft now, really have anywhere near the same level of fan demand that Banjo & Kazooie did. That's really what got them in more than anything else.

Yeah it’s a real shame how nobody seems to care much about RARE these days. It does make sense since they haven’t really been relevant in 20 years but it’s still sad. The only other character that gets much support is Conker and I think he would be the least interesting for Smash when we already have Banjo. I would also love to see a Killer Instinct character or even Joanna Dark make it in one day.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

Yet another slap for Hayabusa, huh? Hmm...

Here’s a thought KINDA building off the recent speculation that “Lloyd Mii will return with a similar fighter”:

What about Red Shell hat? If it’s coming back, I’d assume it’d be a Mario fighter pack... but who?

 

[SKX31]

To be clear, I meant that everyone and their mother pretty much knew that Steve would need a crafting mechanic of some sort. Interpretations changed on how it would be implemented, and tbh most fan movesets I saw were a jumbled incohesive mess compared to what we got, but I don't think anyone doubted he would have that if he came to Smash, because it's a major mechanical point of his game.

But yeah, I think what you're proposing makes some sense. Imagine if using Steal on Captain Falcon allows CJ (or whatever other GTA rep of your choice) to straight up use the Blue Falcon like he just stole a normal vehicle.

It would be weird, it would look like a bad GTA mod... but I bet people would eat it up lol.

No need to worry about missing any trains now when you have a ****ing 1000 KM / H+ car.

Um...I don't really agree that Minecraft leant itself well to a fighting game's mechanics. It took a lot of creativity to make something cohesive out of it down to even just animating the character.

That being said, I love the idea of a steal mechanic. It would probably come in the form of a command grab Special Move that allows you to steal the opponent's currently held item, or an "item" themed off of the character they stole from, giving them a one use Special Move. This could give you some wacky things like:

• Materia: Allows the character to cast a spell.
• Dragon: Gives the character a laser.
• Junk Sword: Gives the character an Art that does more damage from the back.
• Gun/Blaster: Gives the character a gun.
• C4: Straight up gives them Snake's Down Special.

EDIT: So basically Kirby, but not as bad since multiple characters can give you the same thing.

Sidenote: I really think Kirby's Inhale would be much better if he copied the last used B move (akin to Dota 2's Rubick). Yes, it would be a programming nightmare (and that's why it's sadly unlikely) - just imagine Kirby using Photon Edge - but considering that Kirby can in his home game use multiple copied moves (and some have inputs) it wouldn't stray that far from what he normally does. It'd also give some interesting versatility to Inhale.

It also doesn't help Kirby that one of the clearest opportunities to use a Copy Ability is when an opponent is tripped by a Down Tilt... which is random. If Down Tilt tripped consistently but at a smaller damage range (only early %) he'd be having more clear shots to use them.

Yeah it’s a real shame how nobody seems to care much about RARE these days. It does make sense since they haven’t really been relevant in 20 years but still sad. The only other character that gets much support is Conker and I think he would be the least interesting for Smash when we already have Banjo. I would also love to see a Killer Instinct character or even Joanna Dark make it in one day.

TBF, Rare did find a major success - I'd argue their biggest overall - with Sea of Thieves. It's not getting into Smash, no, but it's clear that Sea of Thieves helped revitalize the studio when they are transitioning to Everwild, which is itself a big project for them to work on.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Yet another slap for Hayabusa, huh? Hmm...

Here’s a thought KINDA building off the recent speculation that “Lloyd Mii will return with a similar fighter”:

What about Red Shell hat? If it’s coming back, I’d assume it’d be a Mario fighter pack... but who?

Was the Red Shell hat DLC in 4 or no?

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Yet another slap for Hayabusa, huh? Hmm...

Here’s a thought KINDA building off the recent speculation that “Lloyd Mii will return with a similar fighter”:

What about Red Shell hat? If it’s coming back, I’d assume it’d be a Mario fighter pack... but who?

WAAAAAAAA

 

[cashregister9]

I think that the red shell hat along with the other base game Smash 4 Mii costumes just won't make it in tbh.

 

[3BitSaurus]

No need to worry about missing any trains now when you have a ****ing 1000 KM / H+ car.

I mean, he still has to worry about not exploding if he hits ANYTHING.

Come to think of it, aren't F-Zero races considered "controversial" in-universe because of the, uh, mortality rate? Might not be worth it to steal that one...

 

[Dinoman96]

Yeah it’s a real shame how nobody seems to care much about RARE these days. It does make sense since they haven’t really been relevant in 20 years but it’s still sad. The only other character that gets much support is Conker and I think he would be the least interesting for Smash when we already have Banjo. I would also love to see a Killer Instinct character or even Joanna Dark make it in one day.

I think it's more because Banjo-Kazooie was by far and away Rare's most successful original IP during their Nintendo years and was one of the few Rare IPs to actually be co-owned by Nintendo. Stuff like Battletoads, Conker (his games never even came out on Nintendo consoles in Japan), Perfect Dark, JFG, etc were always fully owned by Rare, though Nintendo did publish/distribute the latter two games in Japan I think.

The only other IPs Nintendo had stakes in were Blast Corps and Killer Instinct, and like Conker the latter's games were never even released on Nintendo hardware in Japan.

 

[Gengar84]

Who does everyone here want for an RE Rep if one does somehow get in despite MH Miis and a Spirit event?

I most want Wesker, hes got my second favorite design of any RE character and it’d feel great destroying someone with his cocky attitude.

Honorable mention to Nemesis, the moveset potential is massive and his design is the objective best don’t @ me.

My most wanted RE character is Nemesis. He looks really cool and I feel like an actual zombie would probably be the best representation for the series. As cool as the human characters are, they wouldn’t feel the same to me without the zombies.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

Yet another slap for Hayabusa, huh? Hmm...

Here’s a thought KINDA building off the recent speculation that “Lloyd Mii will return with a similar fighter”:

What about Red Shell hat? If it’s coming back, I’d assume it’d be a Mario fighter pack... but who?

Did someone say Red Shell hat???? This is how King Boo wins.

 

[Gengar84]

Did someone say Red Shell hat???? This is how King Boo wins.

I’m personally pulling for some variant of a Goomba. I’m fine with a normal Goomba, Goombella, or even Dr. Goomba Tower. They are my favorite basic enemies in any video game. Boo or King Boo would be great too.

 

[Will]

He's only dead when we see him dead, I'm still not going to stick my foot in the absolutes before karma can bite it. And if he is, oh well.

 

[Gengar84]

He's only dead when we see him dead, I'm still not going to stick my foot in the absolutes before karma can bite it. And if he is, oh well.

Same here. I try to keep an open mind whenever I can. If we talk in absolutes it just makes us look like fools later if we are ever proven wrong. That’s one reason I never comment that a character is guaranteed or impossible.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Hayabusa is dead? After all this time? Just like that? Call it an anti climax.

Yeah, I don’t even have the vaguest idea of who these last two mystery men are.

 

[Will]

Yeah, I don’t even have the vaguest idea of who these last two mystery men are.

Pokemon and Crash Bandicoot are the generic duo I've seen. It makes sense at least.

Hey, since we all want to deconfirm with interviews, let's go to Activision-Blizzard right now. Or do we go to Toys for Bob? Naughty Dog?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Sidenote: I really think Kirby's Inhale would be much better if he copied the last used B move (akin to Dota 2's Rubick). Yes, it would be a programming nightmare (and that's why it's sadly unlikely) - just imagine Kirby using Photon Edge - but considering that Kirby can in his home game use multiple copied moves (and some have inputs) it wouldn't stray that far from what he normally does. It'd also give some interesting versatility to Inhale.

It also doesn't help Kirby that one of the clearest opportunities to use a Copy Ability is when an opponent is tripped by a Down Tilt... which is random. If Down Tilt tripped consistently but at a smaller damage range (only early %) he'd be having more clear shots to use them.

I think the best thing that could be done for Kirby would be to make the Copy Abilities coincide with canon Copy Abilities that alter his normals slightly. That way they could tailor the Copy Abilities to specific versions of Kirby's Moveset instead of trying to make sure Kirby's base moveset doesn't break when you slap a little under 82 different Special Moves onto it. That and make Inhale a bit better. It shouldn't be a big event when a character manages lands their signature move.

 

[Gengar84]

Speaking of copy abilities, I do wish they had done something similar with Mega Man. Gaining the powers of bosses you defeat is one of the main defining features of the games. It would have been cool if he gained a special of an enemy he KO’d or something to that effect. That may have stepped on Kirby’s gimmick a bit too much though.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Pokemon and Crash Bandicoot are the generic duo I've seen. It makes sense at least.

Hey, since we all want to deconfirm with interviews, let's go to Activision-Blizzard right now. Or do we go to Toys for Bob? Naughty Dog?

To be honest I feel like a Pokemon would’ve happened by now, that and the Spirit Event make me doubt them quite a lot. Though Crash is still 100% on the table.

After Grant Kirkhope and SNK pulled they’re tomfoolery, I’m not at all confident in interview deconfirms. But considering this time Hayabusa was brought up without prompting, I’d say hes in the grave.

 

[Lyncario]

If Hayabusa really is down with the latest interview, then that's really shocking. It would also mean that of the 3 characters I though were really likely, only Adol still has his chances intact, so if we get a Ys spirit even soon, then you can all blame me for predicting Adol in Smash.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Anyway, if Hayabusa really is out of the running (which I believe he is) then bring on more of those left field surprises I say

 

[Deleted member]

Yet another slap for Hayabusa, huh? Hmm...

Here’s a thought KINDA building off the recent speculation that “Lloyd Mii will return with a similar fighter”:

What about Red Shell hat? If it’s coming back, I’d assume it’d be a Mario fighter pack... but who?

Kamek, King Boo, Paper Mario, some kind of Non-bowser villain from a paper mario game, Toad/Captain Toad (modified to be allowed to jump), E. Gadd, Dry Bowser, Boom Boom & Pom Pom, Nabbit, Foreman Spike if you want that Retro Rep (Wrecking Crew for those unaware).

I'm sure there are more, too; this was just off the top of my head.

 

[Geno Boost]

weird how to this day they still havent shown the smash ballout result
would it be a surprise if we found out that there was someone who was spamming bayonetta votes on the smash ballout daily?

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

If people want to think that Hayabusa is actually out then that’s of their own accord and that’s completely ok, but I do think we need to be cautious jumping to conclusions when it comes to interviews. By this point we’ve learned we really can’t tell one way or another about interviews.

It’s obvious to the entire industry by this point that interviewers asking the question about Smash immediately gets their article more views. The interviewee cannot answer that question in a way that could be considered definitive. You guys just need to be more open minded when it comes to interviews because right now, if an interviewer asks an interviewee about Smash, we immediately see a disconfirm. No matter how it’s worded that’s what our minds jump to.

I’m not even saying this as a Hayabusa fan, I’ve said this about Kiryu and a few others as well. The fact that “interviews deconfirm” has become a fan rule is uh, shocking to me. SNK was disconfirmed by their interview until they weren’t and we don’t even have to talk about the Grant Kirkhope thing but all I’m saying is you guys jumping at disconfirmations as an excuse to shut down discussions on certain characters has gotten a little irksome at the very least.

 

[Will]

To be honest I feel like a Pokemon would’ve happened by now, that and the Spirit Event make me doubt them quite a lot.

Remember how people felt the same way about Fire Emblem in Pass 1?

Don't forget.

 

[Gengar84]

Anyway, if Hayabusa really is out of the running (which I believe he is) then bring on more of those left field surprises I say

Yeah, this is actually a good thing as far as interesting Smash speculation goes. Now we just have to wait for Crash to be “disconfirmed” and we’ll have no clue what to expect. Nothing against those two characters but I always prefer to be surprised rather than get what everyone expected all along.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

Kamek, King Boo, Paper Mario, some kind of Non-bowser villain from a paper mario game, Toad/Captain Toad (modified to be allowed to jump), E. Gadd, Dry Bowser, Boom Boom & Pom Pom, Nabbit, Foreman Spike if you want that Retro Rep (Wrecking Crew for those unaware).

I'm sure there are more, too; this was just off the top of my head.

TOAD would be delightful! Regular Toad tho, Captain Toad's whole thing is that he can't jump. I... kinda actually don't like him.

Regular Toad with a Toadette alt, Yellow Toad, Blue Toad, classic inverted color toad (red with white spots), green Japanese website Toad (can't remember his name).

TOAD needs his fame! He just shows up in his trailer and just goes all "Who'd ya expeeeeeeeect? Pee-wee Herman?" (that's a Super Show reference)

 

[Will]

The fact that “interviews deconfirm” has become a fan rule is uh, shocking to me.

I feel like Travis started this new trend of interview craze, even though people thought that his interview actually had people saying he was confirmed.

 

[NotGenerico]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Yasuda is certainly mentioning Hayabusa in Smash a lot lately.