Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[ES. Dinah]

Why would Falcom be controversial?

with that in mind, I GUESS also Reimu would be controversial to the typical Western gamer unfamiliar with Touhou. Maybe KOS-MOS too cause Xenosaga’s last game was 2006 and the remaster was shot down due to lack of interest

I’d welcome both tho

KOS-MOS would definitely cause a sea of salt especially after Pyra/Mythra if she happened but they wouldn’t understand it and just complain regardless of KOS-MOS being a namco owned character. Gotta love the smash community.

PS: she still has a minuscule shot right now but I don’t think it will happen. But hey they cared enough to give Mythra the KOS-MOS victory pose in her down taunt somewhat so maybe they still see KOS-MOS potential somewhere.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Bruh.


Nah, in Undertale, the Battles are in-game Battles. Meaning the Undertale Universe has a Battle System. The only way this could relate to Undertale is if Kris is the Fighter since Grazing is a Core Mechanic to Deltarune, but considering they're essentially two different series linked together very loosely by Gaster, Not only that, but Chapter 2 is... definitely having a Rocky Development so yeah. Long story short this definitely isn't Undertale.

Deltarune actually seems to be proceeding on Schedule. Chapter 2 is the entire rest of the game so a long gap in development makes sense.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Deltarune actually seems to be proceeding on Schedule. Chapter 2 is the entire rest of the game so a long gap in development makes sense.

Whoa what? Interesting... I’m pretty sure it’ll be paid given how massive it is. Look forward to it

 

[cashregister9]

Deltarune actually seems to be proceeding on Schedule. Chapter 2 is the entire rest of the game so a long gap in development makes sense.

Do you have a source for this? because as far as I remember Chapter 2 was just taking so long because Game development is hard for one person and it's the length of Chapter 1

 

[PeridotGX]

when the apple is bad

 

[chocolatejr9]

I'd (genuinely) like to know why you think that - most of the reasons I've heard over time boil down to assumptions based on precedent rather than any legitimate barrier. I think if two properties from the same company are different enough in a vacuum then it's easy to justify "double-dipping". Because otherwise the only thing those characters have in common is who owns them.

Wouldn't blame you for not "expecting" it though, I just don't think there's any direct reason why it would be wrong to predict it either.

So you're saying Balan has a chance...

 

[PeridotGX]

Chapter 2 is... definitely having a Rocky Development so yeah. Long story short this definitely isn't Undertale.

I'm pretty sure development is going fine. I think Toby said that the rest of the chapters will be released at the same time, not one-at-a-time like previously stated.

 

[SharkLord]

when the apple is bad
View attachment 307089

The law states that as punishment for unleashing this horrid abomination upon the world, I am now legally entitled to your spleen.

Now hand it over

 

[Rie Sonomura]

when the apple is bad

Thanks

I hate it.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

when the apple is bad
View attachment 307089

I know I should be used to disturbing images on the internet by now, but......

 

[PeridotGX]

View attachment 307091

I know I should be used to disturbing images on the internet by now, but......

is this joke disgust or disgust-disgust.

i'm not joking i'm not good at picking up on this stuff if it's actually that bad i'll delete it

 

[Mushroomguy12]

is this joke disgust or disgust-disgust.

i'm not joking i'm not good at picking up on this stuff if it's actually that bad i'll delete it

It's joke disgust, I've seen much worse than this in the past year alone.

The internet can be a..... bad place.

 

[SKX31]

When your hitboxes have hitboxes.

Also, sidenote: is it just me or several DLC characters so far have "full body cover" circular hitbox NAirs?

That's about half the Challenger Packs. Maybe we can make a theory around it.

But that's just a theory.

A game theo- *gets shot by *

It might be just that spins being N-Airs are typically rather "safe" options, might look the best on those characters (Just try to imagine Plant doing a sex kick) and attacks usually designed as either a A) combo tool (Joker, Mythra, Palutena), B) "Get off me" option (Min Min, Pyra, Bowser) or either really (B-K, Byleth, Meta Knight).

At this point I honestly feel like, if we don't get Hayabusa, it's highly possible we don't bring any new companies into the mix at all with FP2.

I think the precedent set by the previous four characters implies that Nintendo is working with what's available and tying up loose ends more than they're worried about expanding the crossover in the same way they were back in FP1. It's pretty telling that we have three characters from series that were already in the base game, two characters from Nintendo themselves, and then Steve as the outlier who was discussed as far back as five years ago.

So I wouldn't be shocked if the final two keep up this trend in some way. Probably not in the "second chance" way that a lot of us were humoring just a couple weeks ago, but I'd say already having some footing within Smash is a major benefit to whoever is still in the race at this point (I've lost a lot of faith in Namco and Capcom so my perspective shifts dominantly toward Sega, Microsoft and another Nintendo character).

The only reason I consider Hayabusa a major exception is because of how Koei Tecmo is probably in some sort of talks with Nintendo every other day, it's be particularly easy to land that deal and they wouldn't really have to go out of their way for anything.

It's honestly difficult to say because the timing is kinda vague. They did announce further DLC with the B-K / Terry Direct IIRC (in Autumm 2019), but likely had decided on several of those characters earlier on. For me, the timing window for any new company to enter DLC talks would be 2018 at the latest, and that's assuming the company in question is coming in with its licensing neatly packaged and taken care of.

Which doesn't eliminate many companies, granted, but it might've encouraged Nintendo to look towards ideas that are already in the pipeline primarily. Of course, it's also a definitional issue: One or a couple "new" companies could've started talks with Nintendo during the 2017 / 18 window for all we know, and that could be counted as "tieing up loose ends". We won't likely know until FP11's released or after that.

 

[Slime Master]

My immediate response to 2 reps from the same company in one pass is usually "that won't happen" but then I actually think about it and don't really have a good reason why. Maybe my subconscious knows something I don't, but for now I wouldn't rule it out as a possibility.

Of course with only 2 characters left it could also just not happen coincidently.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Do you have a source for this? because as far as I remember Chapter 2 was just taking so long because Game development is hard for one person and it's the length of Chapter 1

Well, apparently I was wrong. Chapter 2 isn’t the rest of the game. I could’ve sworn I heard Toby say that. Chapter 2 is around a third of the game. It does seem to be longer than Chapter 1 though.
Toby isn’t working alone, he’s actually got a small team this time around.
The chapter has been delayed, not sure why, but Toby reassured in January that development is still going smoothly. See Here and

Spoiler: Here.

 

[Guynamednelson]

It might be just that spins being N-Airs are typically rather "safe" options, might look the best on those characters (Just try to imagine Plant doing a sex kick) and attacks usually designed as either a A) combo tool (Joker, Mythra, Palutena), B) "Get off me" option Min Min, Pyra, Bowser) or either really (B-K, Byleth, Meta Knight).

And how the hell else is Byleth supposed to use a bow for not shooting arrows?

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

And how the hell else is Byleth supposed to use a bow for not shooting arrows?

I can't tell you, but if I saw somebody twirling a strung bow like a baton I would simultaneously be really impressed and wonder what was wrong with them.

 

[CureParfait]

So, if the next 2 DLC characters were to be from companies not yet repped in Smash, which two companies would be the most likely?

ArcSys and although not 100% sure on this one but Team Shanghai Alice.

 

[Opossum]

"But LloYd hAs tWo SWords, nOt juSt one"

Not to be mean to anyone of his supporters but that is a weak ass argument of why he should be in smash

Like it or not, the argument is perfectly solid, because it has precedence with Robin being selected over Chrom in Smash 4. Robin's tomes + swords combo was deemed more inherently interesting than Chrom who only had swords, so Robin got prioritized. In this case, Lloyd's twin blades would be more inherently unique than Yuri's single sword.

 

[cashregister9]

Well, apparently I was wrong. Chapter 2 isn’t the rest of the game. I could’ve sworn I heard Toby say that. Chapter 2 is around a third of the game. It does seem to be longer than Chapter 1 though.
Toby isn’t working alone, he’s actually got a small team this time around.
The chapter has been delayed, not sure why, but Toby reassured in January that development is still going smoothly. See Here and

Spoiler: Here.

View attachment 307094

I gotcha, I remembered the tweet it was just the all at once thing I wasn't sure about.

 

[MBRedboy31]

And how the hell else is Byleth supposed to use a bow for not shooting arrows?

Well, just ask the Brawlhalla bow users how they do it.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Like it or not, the argument is perfectly solid, because it has precedence with Robin being selected over Chrom in Smash 4. Robin's tomes + swords combo was deemed more inherently interesting than Chrom who only had swords, so Robin got prioritized. In this case, Lloyd's twin blades would be more inherently unique than Yuri's single sword.

I would agree if Lloyd actually made good use of his two swords. He's kind of bad at it. Most of the time he uses one sword and will occasionally switch to the other for the final hit. I've mentioned it a couple times, but there are other characters in the series who have a practically identical moveset while only using one sword. Personally, if the entire reason for getting Lloyd is because he has two swords, I'd rather get a different dual-wielder.

There are a lot of other reasons for Lloyd to be a good pick, though. It's just that his two swords are pretty negligible in the grand scheme of what he does as a character.

 

[RoboFist]

So here's something kinda cute.

Started a bit of spring cleaning today and discovered a huge pile of notebooks from way back. I went through a couple of them and discovered that one was almost entirely dedicated to Smash speculation...for Smash 4.

I apparently started it right after Rosalina was revealed and man my wish list was ambitious.

What's so satisfying, though, is seeing how many names I wrote in my sh***y handwriting that eventually came to fruition:

1. Banjo and Kazooie
2. Simon Belmont
3. Shantae
4. Paper Mario
5. Wolf Link and Midna
6. Young Link (with Masks)
7. Lyn
8. New Pokemon Trainer
9. Princess Daisy
10. Duck Hunt Dog
11. Amaterasu
12. Neku
13. Little Mac
14. Tetra
15. Miis

Even if some of them aren't exactly what I was hoping for (no masks for YL) and even if some of them aren't playable (hey, Lyn and Midna still get 3D models and appear on-stage during fights, and Shantae is at least acknowledged), it's really cool how many of my most-wanteds and dream picks still made it in at the end of the day.

And I know in a post-Everyone is Here world, some of these seem obvious. But back in the Wii U days...Daisy? The dog from Duck Hunt? Even bringing back YL or getting B&K at all seemed like huge stretches.

Now I just gotta wait for my final 2 to get their time...

 

[Rie Sonomura]

So here's something kinda cute.

Started a bit of spring cleaning today and discovered a huge pile of notebooks from way back. I went through a couple of them and discovered that one was almost entirely dedicated to Smash speculation...for Smash 4.

I apparently started it right after Rosalina was revealed and man my wish list was ambitious.

What's so satisfying, though, is seeing how many names I wrote in my sh***y handwriting that eventually came to fruition:

1. Banjo and Kazooie
2. Simon Belmont
3. Shantae
4. Paper Mario
5. Wolf Link and Midna
6. Young Link (with Masks)
7. Lyn
8. New Pokemon Trainer
9. Princess Daisy
10. Duck Hunt Dog
11. Amaterasu
12. Neku
13. Little Mac
14. Tetra
15. Miis

Even if some of them aren't exactly what I was hoping for (no masks for YL) and even if some of them aren't playable (hey, Lyn and Midna still get 3D models and appear on-stage during fights, and Shantae is at least acknowledged), it's really cool how many of my most-wanteds and dream picks still made it in at the end of the day.

And I know in a post-Everyone is Here world, some of these seem obvious but back in the Wii U days...Daisy? The dog from Duck Hunt? Even bringing back YL or getting B&K at all seemed like huge stretches.

Now I just gotta wait for my final 2 to get their time...

Yoooo I voted for Neku on one of my devices on the ballot

idk why but I have a feeling that if a third party does double dip, it’ll be Square Enix... thus... I’ll get my son

 

[TwiceEXE]

Like it or not, the argument is perfectly solid, because it has precedence with Robin being selected over Chrom in Smash 4. Robin's tomes + swords combo was deemed more inherently interesting than Chrom who only had swords, so Robin got prioritized. In this case, Lloyd's twin blades would be more inherently unique than Yuri's single sword.

This is how Gilgamesh wins!

Funnily, more weapons = more unique actually works for both of the most popular video game Gilgamesh character.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Yoooo I voted for Neku on one of my devices on the ballot

idk why but I have a feeling that if a third party does double dip, it’ll be Square Enix... thus... I’ll get my son

To be honest, I kinda agree. They seem to REALLY like to support Smash post-launch, whether it be through DLC or Spirit Events. Though then the question becomes "who's next". Neku makes sense, given NEO is coming. There's also Lara Croft if SE wants to rep its Western side, or a non-FFVII rep for... not-FFVII content. Heck, I joke about Balan, but for all we know, Sakurai might owe Yuji Naka a favor.

Square Enix is quickly becoming an enigma to me...

 

[Rie Sonomura]

To be honest, I kinda agree. They seem to REALLY like to support Smash post-launch, whether it be through DLC or Spirit Events. Though then the question becomes "who's next". Neku makes sense, given NEO is coming. There's also Lara Croft if SE wants to rep its Western side, or a non-FFVII rep for... not-FFVII content. Heck, I joke about Balan, but for all we know, Sakurai might owe Yuji Naka a favor.

Square Enix is quickly becoming an enigma to me...

we got two Square Enix Spirit Events between Hero and Sephiroth
we got another after the latter, Bravely Default II

If we get one more non-TWEWY spirit event soon, I’d say it’s Neku time babey

 

[TCT~Phantom]

So, if the next 2 DLC characters were to be from companies not yet repped in Smash, which two companies would be the most likely?

I think Activision is one of those companies because of Crash, but I'm not sure about the other one...

Activision and either Koei Tecmo or Falcom. I lean Falcom right now.

 

[Guynamednelson]

There's also Lara Croft if SE wants to rep its Western side

Or JC Denton/Adam Jensen, or Agent 4...oh yeah, Square-Enix no longer owns Hitman. So...Gex?

 

[Mamboo07]

Heck with expectations

Peck logic

Y'all ain't gonna be ready for when it's Reimu Teimu

Spoiler

Yeah no Touhou getting in Smash is a pipe dream.

But it's a pipe dream that gets me Bad Apple and UN Owen so HECK YEAH GIMME THAT TOUHOU IN SMASH.

Seeing that gif makes me want to imagine that as one of her taunts or victory poses which would be stupid.

 

[Perkilator]

To be honest, I kinda agree. They seem to REALLY like to support Smash post-launch, whether it be through DLC or Spirit Events. Though then the question becomes "who's next". Neku makes sense, given NEO is coming. There's also Lara Croft if SE wants to rep its Western side, or a non-FFVII rep for... not-FFVII content. Heck, I joke about Balan, but for all we know, Sakurai might owe Yuji Naka a favor.

Square Enix is quickly becoming an enigma to me...

There's also Sora, technically.

 

[Technomage]

if you had to predict one more character from a series with some content in Smash already (doesn't need to be a playable character) who would you be inclined to believe is coming?

Ah, I forgot to mention that I'm not sure about the 2nd choice. Though after reading some other comments, such as one that stated that Sakurai might be biding his time in regards to Lloyd's Mii costume, it does raise the chances of Lloyd (or especially Yuri) being added to DLC, whether or not it's as a loose-ends pick.

 

[SpecterFlower]

Who was the guy who said they weren't interested in a Xenosaga remaster again? I've heard Bandai Namco is in a bit of an... awkward position, mostly because not putting the new Tales game on Switch is apparently going to doom it for Westerners, but I don't know any specifics.

Harada.

he's the guy who looked at Xenoblade 2's sales and then said "Xenosaga doesn't have enough interest", and "for a JRPG to sell 2mil it need's to have a high budget"

the one who thinks porting tales games to Nintendo (tales's biggest success in the west was on the gamecube of all consoles and it hasn't come close to that level of success in the west ever since) is not worth it compared to porting them on other consoles they historically have done just okay or straight up flopped. (tales is popular in Japan on PS systems and in the west it's popular with Nintendo systems, however now that Nintendo is the only relevant platform in japan what they're doing with arise is basically praying that the game randomly sells a ton on PC)

he got promoted few years ago which is why bamco has basically stopped all switch support except for cheap family games and taiko, not even he can create a logical explanation as to why playstation should be the home of taiko no tatsujin but if he could he would.

he is the guy who goes "Nintendo consoles are for kidz big boy's play on playstation". it's a shame we still have people like this in high places, it's the same thing with nagoshi (except he got demoted, apparently sony paid for all his dinners)

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It's the same thing with nagoshi (except he got demoted, apparently sony paid for all his dinners

Isn't this about the interview where he said that Nintendo's usually popular with kids and thus a good place to try a Monkey Ball revival? Can't really think of other examples of Nagoshi supposedly being anti Nintendo

 

[chocolatejr9]

Harada.

he's the guy who looked at Xenoblade 2's sales and then said "Xenosaga doesn't have enough interest", and "for a JRPG to sell 2mil it need's to have a high budget"

the one who thinks porting tales games to Nintendo (tales's biggest success in the west was on the gamecube of all consoles and it hasn't come close to that level of success in the west ever since) is not worth it compared to porting them on other consoles they historically have done just okay or straight up flopped. (tales is popular in Japan on PS systems and in the west it's popular with Nintendo systems, however now that Nintendo is the only relevant platform in japan what they're doing with arise is basically praying that the game randomly sells a ton on PC)

he got promoted few years ago which is why bamco has basically stopped all switch support except for cheap family games and taiko, not even he can create a logical explanation as to why playstation should be the home of taiko no tatsujin but if he could he would.

he is the guy who goes "Nintendo consoles are for kidz big boy's play on playstation". it's a shame we still have people like this in high places, it's the same thing with nagoshi (except he got demoted, apparently sony paid for all his dinners)

Oh yeah, you were the one who had been talking about that. Say, slightly random, but was Harada also the one who didn't want to port .hack to Switch? Or was that someone else? I'm kinda curious about how far this situation goes...

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Oh yeah, you were the one who had been talking about that. Say, slightly random, but was Harada also the one who didn't want to port .hack to Switch? Or was that someone else? I'm kinda curious about how far this situation goes...

He said WHAT

man. Harada’s a proper asshole

 

[Ornl]

idk why but I have a feeling that if a third party does double dip, it’ll be Square Enix... thus... I’ll get my son

With the inclusion of the Monster Hunter and Ghosts' n Goblins Costumes, Capcom has just gained its domination: this third-party company is the most represented by Fighters + AT/Boss + Mii Costumes + Spirit Board events. Moreover, Capcom will probably also get a new Spirit Board event with Monster Hunter Rise. Now only another Sega or Square Enix rep with new Costumes would be the way not to let Capcom dominate the third-party representation.

Companies​	Fighters​	AT/Boss​	Mii Costumes​	Spirit Board events​	Total​	Total owned series​	other: Spirits​
Sega​	3​	4​	8​	0​	15​	4​	56​
Capcom​	3​	5​	8​	2​	18​	5​	69​
Square Enix​	3​	0​	9​	3​	15​	6​	46​

 

[N3ON]

Touhou's real status does not matter.
Smash makes the status.
That's what really matters.

Sorry... excuse me? Real status doesn't matter? I mean, put Reimu aside for a second; status determines which characters get in. Their popularity, prevalence, impact, recency... that's status. Real status is everything that matters.

Why do you think we got Sonic, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Ryu, Cloud, Hero, Steve, etc. instead of Ristar, Spencer, Mappy, Ryo Sakazaki, Vaan, Manjimaru, and, idk, Alien Hominid? Luck? Or is it due to the former group being among the highest status characters in the medium.

Smash makes the status? No. Smash makes inclusions based on the status. The Smash fanbase makes assumptions, based on the inclusions/exclusions. Status exists free from Smash, because characters exist free from Smash. If the only status that matters is the one the Smash fanbase concocts only once a character gets in, then characters like Master Chief and Blinx the Cat currently have the same gaming-wide status. That's absurd.

Do you think they'll go, "should we add Master Chief?" "Nah, status doesn't matter, go with Blinx, he'll be cheaper."

Status is crucial. The real status. The Smash status is just reactionary.

If Reimu gets in, then Touhou's popularity in Japan and other Asian countries will be used as the reason for her inclusion within the community.
If Reimu doesn't get in, then Touhou's obscurity in the Western countries will be used as the reason for her exclusion within the community.
Either way, the outcome determines the reason.
That will be the de facto truth eventually within the smash community.

Well... yeah, no ****.

If Crash gets in his popularity/prevalence will be used as the reason for his inclusion within the community.
If Crash doesn't get in, then being western and Activision shenanigans will be used as the reason for his exclusion within the community.

This isn't preemptive speculation, it's retrospective analysis. And we'll do that for Reimu and Crash and everyone in due course.

So the question should be, does Nintendo want the Touhou franchise to become more mainstream and Nintendo-centric or not.

Is that the question? Because that's not been the motivation behind adding any of the other third-parties. Other than maybe Bayo, who is in a very different situation. They add them because of who they or their series are, and potentially the fans, and therefore money, they can bring.

I don't think Nintendo had any illusions that adding Cloud or Ryu was gonna get future mainline FF or SF games on their systems.

 

[Megadoomer]

He said WHAT

man. Harada’s a proper asshole

As far as I can tell, it was the higher-ups at Bandai-Namco, not Harada specifically.

CyberConnect2 proposed requests to port .hack//G.U. Last Recode to Switch but Bandai Namco denied them

.hack fans might not be happy with this news as it seems Bandai Namco doesn’t see much interest in the franchise moving to new platforms. CyberConnect2 stated that the company actively proposed to bring .hack//G.U. Last Recode to Switch, but Bandai Namco denied the requests to do so. Here’s what...

finalweapon.net

From what I can tell, the reasoning is that it's unclear if the game will sell well enough to make up for the cost of porting it, though the interview's kind of vague about that.

 

[chocolatejr9]

He said WHAT

man. Harada’s a proper asshole

Well, that's what I was asking. I remember the guy who made .hack did a Q&A of some kind not too long ago, and someone asked if .hack could be ported to Switch. They said they wanted to port it, but couldn't for whatever reason (I think he said something about Playstation loyality? Don't remember, its been awhile). Needless to say, people didn't take it very well...