Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[cashregister9]

Euden by virtue of being a mobile character.

Just because a game has gacha doesn't mean it's a bad game dammit T_T Dragalia Lost is a good game

Why would Falcom be controversial?

I guess because of the mindset of "I haven't heard of it which means it's bad"

 

[7NATOR]

Why would Falcom be controversial?

with that in mind, I GUESS also Reimu would be controversial to the typical Western gamer unfamiliar with Touhou. Maybe KOS-MOS too cause Xenosaga’s last game was 2006 and the remaster was shot down due to lack of interest

I’d welcome both tho

2 of Falcom's most prominent characters (Adol and Rean), are definitely gonna get the "Generic Anime Swordfighter complaint", Especially Adol to be honest. I would also say they aren't the most well known characters (they have legacy, and their popularity is growing I believe), they aren't the most requested characters, and since FP2 is the end, well that will cause some controversy I think

I think Reimu might also be a bit controversial, but Not really as much as the characters I listed I think. I think even if Casuals don't know who she is, I think they'd be apathetic, or would be sold on her implementation perhaps.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Just because a game has gacha doesn't mean it's a bad game dammit T_T Dragalia Lost is a good game


I guess because of the mindset of "I haven't heard of it which means it's bad"

I know, but nobody listens...

 

[JOJONumber691]

2 of Falcom's most prominent characters (Adol and Rean), are definitely gonna get the "Generic Anime Swordfighter complaint", Especially Adol to be honest. I would also say they aren't the most well known characters (they have legacy, and their popularity is growing I believe), they aren't the most requested characters, and since FP2 is the end, well that will cause some controversy I think

I think Reimu might also be a bit controversial, but Not really as much as the characters I listed I think. I think even if Casuals don't know who she is, I think they'd be apathetic, or would be sold on her implementation perhaps.

That Music will probably cause her to be Terry 2 in the Smash Community except she's also a Zoner lol.

 

[7NATOR]

That Music will probably cause her to be Terry 2 in the Smash Community except she's also a Zoner lol.

You know what, I take it back

She probably might be controvirsial in the same way Min Min is, and that's through the gameplay aspect

Judging from her games, she'd be like Jigglypuff if she had Projectiles, and that does not sound Fun to Fight Against. If they find a way to balance her to make her fun to play and fun to fight, I'll eat my words, but if they do add her in, they really have to thread lightly

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I find it hilarious the Smash community are always complaining about "Too many swordsmen" yet proceeds to heavily request Dante, Lloyd, and Sora.

 

[SharkLord]

Side note, scrolling through the conversation I missed last night I'm a little miffed about the way the Reimu convo devolved into "It's big and iconic! No it's obscure as %$#@ I didn't know about it for Smash spec." Just a little.
When it started, it was mostly just pinging ideas off each other and asking questions. "What design would she use? Is there a real connected narrative? They must add these songs or we riot!" Then it's just stopped for the standard "It's not happening" we've heard over and over again. Reimu's chances have been discussed a lot due to her sudden popularity and unorthodox situation, so it's really just retreading old ground. Yes, I know how you feel about Reimu, but c'mon. We were just having fun that time.
We need more times where we just get together and start pinging ideas off each other, instead of sinking into "They have a chance! They're possible! No they don't." Let speculation be fun, not about trying to predict the safest options and sitting on them for the rest of the cycle.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I find it hilarious the Smash community are always complaining about "Too many swordsmen" yet proceeds to heavily request Dante, Lloyd, and Sora.

Guilty as charged. I'm indifferent to a lot of the JRPG Swordmasters, but if this guy were to pop up in Smash:

I'd be tempted to buy Smash again just out of sheer gratitude.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Side note, scrolling through the conversation I missed last night I'm a little miffed about the way the Reimu convo devolved into "It's big and iconic! No it's obscure as %$#@ I didn't know about it for Smash spec." Just a little. When it started, it was mostly just pinging ideas off each other and asking questions. "What design would she use? Is there a real connected narrative? They must add these songs or we riot!" Then it's just stopped for the standard "It's not happening" we've heard over and over again. Reimu's chances have been discussed a lot due to her sudden popularity and unorthodox situation, so it's really just retreading old ground. Yes, I know how you feel about Reimu, but c'mon. We were just having fun that time. We need more times where we just get together and start pinging ideas off each other, instead of sinking into "They have a chance! They're possible! No they don't." Let speculation be fun, not about trying to predict the safest options and sitting on them for the rest of the cycle.

Yeah, I wanna talk about Billy Hatcher without having to preface that he's never happening.

At least let me talk about the music potential...

 

[Geno Boost]

i have question since we got terry all the spirit and songs are listed with the star logo from fatal fury would that confirm that every SNK game represented in smash are from the same universe?

 

[JOJONumber691]

You know what, I take it back

She probably might be controvirsial in the same way Min Min is, and that's through the gameplay aspect

Judging from her games, she'd be like Jigglypuff if she had Projectiles, and that does not sound Fun to Fight Against. If they find a way to balance her to make her fun to play and fun to fight, I'll eat my words, but if they do add her in, they really have to thread lightly

I mean, Shoot 'em Ups are generally very hard partially because of your INSANELY Low Durability. So Reimu would definitely be very light, probably Bottom 5 Weight Wise at least. Not only that, but the Glitch seems to only be active when the Player is moving, meaning Reimu would also be a Very Movement Heavy Fighter. So probably a Light and Floaty Zoner with Top 5 Speeds and being extremely difficult to actually hit with your own projectiles. Yeah, this is definitely a character who would likely be very controversial gameplay-wise.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Yeah, I wanna talk about Billy Hatcher without having to preface that he's never happening.

At least let me talk about the music potential...

I guess when it comes to the Smash community, you talking about Billy Hatcher before he's potentially realistic as a character is a case of...

...counting your chickens before they've hatched.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

i have question since we got terry all the spirit and songs are listed with the star logo from fatal fury would that confirm that every SNK game represented in smash are from the same universe?

I mean, King of Fighters is a thing.

 

[3BitSaurus]

And so, the Waifu War re-ignited...

That's also the impression that most in the competitive thread (and other competitive-leaning forums). Sure, it's down to Mythra's / Pyra's abilities, hitboxes etc. (Such as Foresight which alone has caused a lot of discussions), but still. Which incidentally makes and fellow DLC jealous. Compare this:

To Mythra's and Pyra's:

(Sidenote: Mythra's pink hitbox has another hitbox underneath it, which is outprioritized by the former and will never take any effect itself. Likely an oversight by the devs. Also, Mythra has a landing hitbox on her N-Air, because yes.)

Seriously, Sakurai and co. just loved to give Mythra / Pyra a huge amount of hitboxes just so that the attacks would hit.

When your hitboxes have hitboxes.

Also, sidenote: is it just me or several DLC characters so far have "full body cover" circular hitbox NAirs?

That's about half the Challenger Packs. Maybe we can make a theory around it.

 

[SharkLord]

Yeah, I wanna talk about Billy Hatcher without having to preface that he's never happening.

At least let me talk about the music potential...

Lesser-known character generally have a harder time taking off unless we have a leak to go off of. The best bet is either make a DLC pack concept for the game or just do a big %$#@ing writeup to explain who the guy is, and hope it sticks.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I find it hilarious the Smash community are always complaining about "Too many swordsmen" yet proceeds to heavily request Dante, Lloyd, and Sora.

"But LloYd hAs tWo SWords, nOt juSt one"

Not to be mean to anyone of his supporters but that is a weak ass argument of why he should be in smash

 

[7NATOR]

I do have a question about the Grazing Glitch actually

This might sound dumb, but if that Undertale theory actually has any merit, is it possible that an Undertale character could have a Grazing mechanic?

Undertale takes alot of inspiration from Touhou, and I believe the game has alot of heavy Dodge mechanics and such, so a character from that game could perhaps have something like this Grazing mechanic. this is also in the situation where the glitch implied a character, but it wasn't Reimu

 

[Technomage]

Who do you guys think would be the most controversial character to end Ultimate's run with?

Ones I can think are is Jonesy and a 9th Fire Emblem character.

Hmmm, I think one of those candidates could be a non-game character, since there are plenty of Smash fans who would boycott the game if that kind of character were to enter Smash in any way, shape, or form.

 

[JOJONumber691]

i have question since we got terry all the spirit and songs are listed with the star logo from fatal fury would that confirm that every SNK game represented in smash are from the same universe?

Technically. You see, King of Fighters takes place in an alternate universe where Geese Never Died and the Art of Fighting Characters are their Art of Fighting Ages when Fatal Fury takes place. While Fatal Fury and Art of Fighting take place in the same universe as each other, with Art of Fighting acting as a Prequel to Fatal Fury, while KOF is the Alternate Timeline. Metal Slug is a Completely Different Timeline meanwhile, and Samurai Shodown and Art of Fighting are probably in all Three Universes due to how far back they take place in comparison to every other SNK Property. There's your explanation my dude!

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Touhou does have a place in gaming history as one of the, if not the oldest indie series if you include the PC-98 games and Touhou fangames are a launching pad for future devs and it also inspired other popular games like Undertale. And Touhou is one of the few series I know with it's own specific convention and everything simply because of the amount of doujin material made for it.


Reimu is my #1 most wanted but Touhou is in a weird spot here. People may not know Reimu or Touhou by name but they may have clearly seen Touhou fan videos like Bad Apple or Night of Nights or something like that. And Touhou is a lot more influential than people give it credit for but there's always people who are hesitant to even see Reimu as a possibility simply because support for her exploded during Ultimate.

But at the very least, she's probably the most refreshing character to talk about, especially when usually people would bring up the same five-six character and expect them as inevitable, ignoring everyone else. And even if I am 50/50 on whether she could get in or not, I am glad she is proof that character discussion was shaken up a lot this cycle.

Eh, Reimu's not the most common name but she does get discussed here quite a bit

Imagine if Reimu had this in Smash:
View attachment 307052

I was about to make an Ultra Instinct meme because of how DBFZ handled him but to me surprise there's no Touhou horn remix of the Ultra Instinct theme smh

 

[JOJONumber691]

I do have a question about the Grazing Glitch actually

This might sound dumb, but if that Undertale theory actually has any merit, is it possible that an Undertale character could have a Grazing mechanic?

Undertale takes alot of inspiration from Touhou, and I believe the game has alot of heavy Dodge mechanics and such, so a character from that game could perhaps have something like this Grazing mechanic. this is also in the situation where the glitch implied a character, but it wasn't Reimu

Nah, in Undertale, the Battles are in-game Battles. Meaning the Undertale Universe has a Battle System. The only way this could relate to Undertale is if Kris is the Fighter since Grazing is a Core Mechanic to Deltarune, but considering they're essentially two different series linked together very loosely by Gaster, Not only that, but Chapter 2 is... definitely having a Rocky Development so yeah. Long story short this definitely isn't Undertale.

 

[Technomage]

So, if the next 2 DLC characters were to be from companies not yet repped in Smash, which two companies would be the most likely?

I think Activision is one of those companies because of Crash, but I'm not sure about the other one...

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I do have a question about the Grazing Glitch actually

This might sound dumb, but if that Undertale theory actually has any merit, is it possible that an Undertale character could have a Grazing mechanic?

Undertale takes alot of inspiration from Touhou, and I believe the game has alot of heavy Dodge mechanics and such, so a character from that game could perhaps have something like this Grazing mechanic. this is also in the situation where the glitch implied a character, but it wasn't Reimu

Undertale doesn’t actually have grazing though. It’s pretty much a turn based RPG but the only part that’s like Touhou is the enemy turn. If you get hit you lose HP. So I don’t think that’s the case here

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

So, if the next 2 DLC characters were to be from companies not yet repped in Smash, which companies would be they most likely?

I think Activision is one of those companies because of Crash, but I'm not sure about the other one...

Realistically I would assume them, Koei Tecmo, or maybe an outside chance of something from the Take Two Interactive network of game companies.

 

[Louie G.]

So, if the next 2 DLC characters were to be from companies not yet repped in Smash, which two companies would be the most likely?

Koei Tecmo by a large margin, it’s pretty debatable after that. I’d probably default to ArcSys because it seems safe enough.

Kinda hard for me to say a new western company is the most likely since it offers additional hurdles and obstacles, and based on how this pass is going so far I’m not convinced they negotiated with any real massive new companies - I’d sooner expect smaller / cheaper ones at this rate.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

So, if the next 2 DLC characters were to be from companies not yet repped in Smash, which two companies would be the most likely?

I think Activision is one of those companies because of Crash, but I'm not sure about the other one...

Imma be real bold and say either Falcom or Riot. Or no let’s up the ante a bit more even shall we? Team Shanghai Alice or IntiCreates as well

 

[DarthEnderX]

There are a good number of people in the Smash community especially who have pretty much decided a Pokemon is the "Worst case scenario

That number pales in comparison to the number of people who have pretty much decided another FE character is the "Worst case scenario".

A Gen 8 Pokemon at least makes sense, even if most people don't want one.

 

[SharkLord]

So, if the next 2 DLC characters were to be from companies not yet repped in Smash, which two companies would be the most likely?

I think Activision is one of those companies because of Crash, but I'm not sure about the other one...

Given Smash's track record, not whoever we're predicting. Therefore, no more KT, no more Activision, no more ArcSys-Oh god oh %$#@ I take it back

 

[Louie G.]

At this point I honestly feel like, if we don't get Hayabusa, it's highly possible we don't bring any new companies into the mix at all with FP2.

I think the precedent set by the previous four characters implies that Nintendo is working with what's available and tying up loose ends more than they're worried about expanding the crossover in the same way they were back in FP1. It's pretty telling that we have three characters from series that were already in the base game, two characters from Nintendo themselves, and then Steve as the outlier who was discussed as far back as five years ago.

So I wouldn't be shocked if the final two keep up this trend in some way. Probably not in the "second chance" way that a lot of us were humoring just a couple weeks ago, but I'd say already having some footing within Smash is a major benefit to whoever is still in the race at this point (I've lost a lot of faith in Namco and Capcom so my perspective shifts dominantly toward Sega, Microsoft and another Nintendo character).

The only reason I consider Hayabusa a major exception is because of how Koei Tecmo is probably in some sort of talks with Nintendo every other day, it's be particularly easy to land that deal and they wouldn't really have to go out of their way for anything.

 

[RileyXY1]

At this point I honestly feel like, if we don't get Hayabusa, it's highly possible we don't bring any new companies into the mix at all with FP2.

I think the precedent set by the previous four characters implies that Nintendo is working with what's available and tying up loose ends more than they're worried about expanding the crossover in the same way they were back in FP1. It's pretty telling that we have three characters from series that were already in the base game, two characters from Nintendo themselves, and then Steve as the outlier who was discussed as far back as five years ago.

So I wouldn't be shocked if the final two keep up this trend in some way. Probably not in the "second chance" way that a lot of us were humoring just a couple weeks ago, but I'd say already having some footing within Smash is a major benefit to whoever is still in the race at this point (I've lost a lot of faith in Namco and Capcom so my perspective shifts dominantly toward Sega, Microsoft and another Nintendo character).

I don't really expect double dipping when it comes to third party companies in this Fighter Pass.

 

[Louie G.]

I don't really expect double dipping when it comes to third party companies in this Fighter Pass.

I'd (genuinely) like to know why you think that - most of the reasons I've heard over time boil down to assumptions based on precedent rather than any legitimate barrier. I think if two properties from the same company are different enough in a vacuum then it's easy to justify "double-dipping". Because otherwise the only thing those characters have in common is who owns them.

Wouldn't blame you for not "expecting" it though, I just don't think there's any direct reason why it would be wrong to predict it either.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I'd (genuinely) like to know why you think that - most of the reasons I've heard over time boil down to assumptions based on precedent rather than any legitimate barrier. I think if two properties from the same company are different enough in a vacuum then it's easy to justify "double-dipping". Because otherwise the only thing those characters have in common is who owns them.

Wouldn't blame you for not "expecting" it though, I just don't think there's any direct reason why it would be wrong to predict it either.

So what you’re saying is this is how Neku can still win right

tbh tho I wouldn’t count Namco 100% out until that Lloyd costume returns and they’ve been biding their time in bringing it back so MAYBE Lloyd will return with a Namco character?

 

[Technomage]

At this point I honestly feel like, if we don't get Hayabusa, it's highly possible we don't bring any new companies into the mix at all with FP2.

I think the precedent set by the previous four characters implies that Nintendo is working with what's available and tying up loose ends more than they're worried about expanding the crossover in the same way they were back in FP1. It's pretty telling that we have three characters from series that were already in the base game, two characters from Nintendo themselves, and then Steve as the outlier who was discussed as far back as five years ago.

So I wouldn't be shocked if the final two keep up this trend in some way. Probably not in the "second chance" way that a lot of us were humoring just a couple weeks ago, but I'd say already having some footing within Smash is a major benefit to whoever is still in the race at this point (I've lost a lot of faith in Namco and Capcom so my perspective shifts dominantly toward Sega, Microsoft and another Nintendo character).

Personally, I qualify Steve as tying up a loose end because he was being negotiated on for 5 years.

Also, if we were to predict the next two based on tying loose ends, then who would they be?

I'm thinking a Gen 8 Pokemon would be one of them since that seemed like a shoe-in for either base game or FP1, both of which Sword and Shield have missed. Though as to which Pokemon specifically, I'm not sure, though I personally would prefer it to NOT be a starter mon or a mon in any of their evolutionary lines, since that'd be a bit too formulaic for me, and that I'd prefer something fresher (the only ones I could think of are either a legendary or a Pikachu expy).

 

[Louie G.]

tbh tho I wouldn’t count Namco 100% out until that Lloyd costume returns and they’ve been biding their time in bringing it back so MAYBE Lloyd will return with a Namco character?

I don't think it's impossible, but I don't think they've been particularly "biding their time". We got Heihachi and Gil in the first two batches, slow dripping Namco content like they did with Capcom last time... which made Monster Hunter stick out as the one that was missing, which just ended up being because they wanted to sync it up with Rise promotion. Meanwhile Sephiroth was able to bring a full batch of Square Enix costumes on his own, so there was no need to supplement that batch with the usual filler content.

So I think Lloyd is simply held off until the next available open slot. But I still have passing thoughts about additional Namco characters, namely from Dark Souls - but mostly since that's pretty far detached from the Namco content we already have in the game. Unfortunately though I just feel like Lloyd had to be the unlucky one and was simply the last one in line.

Personally, I qualify Steve as tying up a loose end because he was being negotiated on for 5 years.

Yeah definitely, I just meant he's a bit of an exception in that he's the only one who doesn't belong to a series that already had some content in Smash. Granted I don't think everyone will follow the "loose ends" criteria note for note but I think there's been an effort in some cases.

I think that's interesting to acknowledge too - if you had to predict one more character from a series with some content in Smash already (doesn't need to be a playable character) who would you be inclined to believe is coming? Because I don't see a lot of predictions for that but if FP2 is anything to go by, that's surprisingly the norm thus far.

Had you asked me a little while back I would have said Chun-Li, but with the updated Capcom situation I'm not too sure anymore.

 

[ahemtoday]

Undertale doesn’t actually have grazing though. It’s pretty much a turn based RPG but the only part that’s like Touhou is the enemy turn. If you get hit you lose HP. So I don’t think that’s the case here

Undertale doesn't have grazing, but Deltarune does.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Bruh.


Nah, in Undertale, the Battles are in-game Battles. Meaning the Undertale Universe has a Battle System. The only way this could relate to Undertale is if Kris is the Fighter since Grazing is a Core Mechanic to Deltarune, but considering they're essentially two different series linked together very loosely by Gaster, Not only that, but Chapter 2 is... definitely having a Rocky Development so yeah. Long story short this definitely isn't Undertale.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I don't think it's impossible, but I don't think they've been particularly "biding their time". We got Heihachi and Gil in the first two batches, slow dripping Namco content like they did with Capcom last time... which made Monster Hunter stick out as the one that was missing, which just ended up being because they wanted to sync it up with Rise promotion. Meanwhile Sephiroth was able to bring a full batch of Square Enix costumes on his own, so there was no need to supplement that batch with the usual filler content.

So I think Lloyd is simply held off until the next available open slot. But I still have passing thoughts about additional Namco characters, namely from Dark Souls - but mostly since that's pretty far detached from the Namco content we already have in the game. Unfortunately though I just feel like Lloyd had to be the unlucky one and was simply the last one in line.

Really, Sephiroth only brought four FF costumes and Geno, so I wouldn’t call that representative of Square Enix as a whole

 

[JOJONumber691]

Personally, I qualify Steve as tying up a loose end because he was being negotiated on for 5 years.

Also, if we were to predict the next two based on tying loose ends, then who would they be?

I'm thinking a Gen 8 Pokemon would be one of them since that seemed like a shoe-in for either base game or FP1, both of which Sword and Shield have missed. Though as to which Pokemon specifically, I'm not sure, though I personally would prefer it to NOT be a starter mon or a mon in any of their evolutionary lines, since that'd be a bit too formulaic for me, and that I'd prefer something fresher (the only ones I could think of are either a legendary or a Pikachu expy).

Ayumi Tachibana is the embodiment of this lol.

 

[Louie G.]

Really, Sephiroth only brought four FF costumes and Geno, so I wouldn’t call that representative of Square Enix as a whole

I never said that at all, I said it's a "full batch" since there were enough costumes from the same company where there was no need for additional supplement/filler like Heihachi and Gil provided for previous costume releases.

 

[ahemtoday]

Bruh.


Nah, in Undertale, the Battles are in-game Battles. Meaning the Undertale Universe has a Battle System. The only way this could relate to Undertale is if Kris is the Fighter since Grazing is a Core Mechanic to Deltarune, but considering they're essentially two different series linked together very loosely by Gaster, Not only that, but Chapter 2 is... definitely having a Rocky Development so yeah. Long story short this definitely isn't Undertale.

...What?

I don't really get what you're responding to. I never said anything about Undertale in Smash. I was just talking about grazing.

And now I'm just nitpicking, but the games are linked way more closely than just by Gaster - who I don't think is even in Deltarune - because... y'know, the high amount of characters that appear in both games. Also, didn't Toby state development was going well like a month ago? Doesn't sound rocky to me.