Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Cosmic77]

Personally, I don't have an issue with people discussing cuts. Maybe it's not always relevant to the thread's topic, but let's be honest, far worse is tolerated on a regular basis. And if people want to get technical, then cuts become relevant as soon as you bring up any of the DLC characters returning in the next Smash.

TBH it bothers me way more seeing people try to push the discussion somewhere else because they don't like it. Cuts are one of the only topics I see people do this with, and again, we get far more irrelevant discussions here that are never questioned or asked to be moved.

 

[SNEKeater]

Let's not kid ourselves.


If it wasn't for "DRAGON QUEST 11S BUY IT NOW ON NINTENDO SWITCH!", Erdrick WOULD be the main Hero alt. He's THE Hero that every damn game and anime parodies or wants to be when they reference or take inspiration from Dragon Quest.

True.

Haven't played Dragon Quest III though I want to change that in the future, but to me Erdrick is definitely the coolest looking DQ protag.

Still, even if Luminary got the honour of being the default Hero because of Dragon Quest XI, he's still cool. I like him, even if I think Erdrick is cooler lol

 

[Deleted member]

Whenever cut talk comes up it’s always accompanied by the assumption that old veterans would get reworked. My question is what would that even look like? Because I can’t see much more than a few special moves + a couple normals getting changed here and there at best. Unless the core gameplay formula is getting changed or every character gets a unique mechanic I don’t see why the roster would be Thanos’d. A good number of cuts are inevitable, but y’all are really taking things over the top.

 

[SpecterFlower]

Essential?

Spoiler

(too blue)






You could make the argument for Mii... but I don't want to, lol.

There you go. 38 characters. I await the dissent, especially over the third-parties.

And just keep in mind I cut both my mains so I'm not being biased here.

i would remove lucario for greninja (greninja is the most popular pokemon of all time) but other than the third party's it's pretty good. i would get rid of ike for pyra though

Personally, I don't have an issue with people discussing cuts. Maybe it's not always relevant to the thread's topic, but let's be honest, far worse is tolerated on a regular basis. And if people want to get technical, then cuts become relevant as soon as you bring up any of the DLC characters returning in the next Smash.

TBH it bothers me way more seeing people try to push the discussion somewhere else because they don't like it. Cuts are one of the only topics I see people do this with, and again, we get far more irrelevant discussions here that are never questioned or asked to be moved.

like my falcom talk yesterday?

 

[Shroob]

Personally, I don't have an issue with people discussing cuts. Maybe it's not always relevant to the thread's topic, but let's be honest, far worse is tolerated on a regular basis. And if people want to get technical, then cuts become relevant as soon as you bring up any of the DLC characters returning in the next Smash.

TBH it bothers me way more seeing people try to push the discussion somewhere else because they don't like it. Cuts are one of the only topics I see people do this with, and again, we get far more irrelevant discussions here that are never questioned or asked to be moved.

But at the same time, do two wrongs make a right, exactly? If people are so eager to divert discussion away from cuts, then why not just fix the issue by having it in a separate thread entirely? You never seen this much pushback about any other topic other than cuts, to be frank.

Cuts are inevitable, that's not a question, that's a fact, but I'd argue that most people don't want to worry about what's going to happen 4-6 years down the line and just take in the here and now. We all know Ultimate's a once in a lifetime event, but jumping on board the cut discussion when the DLC isn't even over feels premature. To preface, I feel the same in regards to discussing a potential FP3, so my feelings aren't limited to cuts. Discuss what we have before us at the present, not things we can't know in the future, potentially years out from now.

 

[Ben Holt]

greninja is the most popular pokemon of all time

The methodology for that is very flawed. Extremely small sample size.
Everyone recognizes Pikachu. Charizard is a close second. My 81 year old father recognizes those two.
Greninja is definitely a popular Pokémon with staying power, as are Lucario and Mewtwo, but he is absolutely NOT the most popular Pokémon.

 

[SharkLord]

Regarding cut talk and the subsequent negative reactions, I just find it to be rather boring. We haven't even finished with Ultimate next, and we don't know where Nintendo and Smash go next. SSBU's cycle is ending soon, so we'd best make the most of it while we still can. The cut talks can wait.

And honestly, I don't really care too much about a large portion of the roster, either. I'm not interested in sitting around discussing the relevancy of so-and-so when they're already in. I came here to hear about new games and consider the circumstances surrounding them. I want to hear theories, see moveset ideas, find some cool new games to play. Talking about roster cuts would focus on what's already in rather than brainstorm what could be coming in the future, and frankly, it sounds incredibly unengaging, especially when we have to juggle the argument of Smash 6 vs. Ultimate port during the cut discussion.

I agree with the sentiment that there should be a thread for roster cuts to avoid clogging up this thread. A lot of people have stated that they're uninterested in cut discussion and it always leads to people trying to divert the topic. Yes, I know cuts are inevitable, but that's years away and the topic stagnates quickly anyways. Just quarantine it in its own thread and leave us be.

 

[SpecterFlower]

The methodology for that is very flawed. Extremely small sample size.
Everyone recognizes Pikachu. Charizard is a close second. My 81 year old father recognizes those two.
Greninja is definitely a popular Pokémon with staying power, as are Lucario and Mewtwo, but he is absolutely NOT the most popular Pokémon.

okay, they're the fan favourite then.

 

[Deleted member]

(greninja is the most popular pokemon of all time)

How is Greninja more popular than the actual mascot of the series, ? Where are you getting this from?

 

[Shroob]

How is Greninja more popular than the actual mascot of the series, ? Where are you getting this from?

Greninja came in first on an official poll a couple years back iirc, beating out every pre-Galar Pokemon.

 

[Ben Holt]

Yes, I know cuts are inevitable

Not quite! Ever heard of this game called Super Smash Bros. Ultimate?
Everyone is here!
Let's keep it that way. Smash isn't like Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat where the roster is story based. People play Smash Bros. specifically for the character selection. To cut a fighter in a game where the main selling point is the roster is honestly just disrespectful. Once a Smash Bro., always a Smash Bro.

 

[Gazorpazorpfield]

Essential?

Spoiler

(too blue)






You could make the argument for Mii... but I don't want to, lol.

There you go. 38 characters. I await the dissent, especially over the third-parties.

And just keep in mind I cut both my mains so I'm not being biased here.

Your Fire Emblem representation is much cleaner. Chrom can knock out Roy for being similar, as well as Lucina and Robin for repping Awakening. Not bad!

Those 3rd party cuts are pretty bold. I think at least Ryu, Cloud, Hero and Steve can sit with the big boys. Aside from that and a couple staples like Falco missing out, this is a clean fat-trimming.

 

[N3ON]

i would remove lucario for greninja (greninja is the most popular pokemon of all time) but other than the third party's it's pretty good. i would get rid of ike for pyra though

Greninja is not the most popular Pokemon of all time. Pikachu is the most popular Pokemon of all time. Then probably Charizard. Then maybe Mewtwo or Squirtle or someone. Greninja might be in the top 10. Pokemon is so massive, ubiquitous and widespread that even a poll of that size is only a sliver of the total audience.

And Xenoblade isn't really that big a series. I'd consider removing Ike, but if I was going to give any other series another character, it'd be Star Fox.

Thanks for the feedback, though.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

The whole nature of cuts would actually make for an interesting meta-subtext in the next main game storyline; the narrative being that either the Master/Crazy hand duo or some other malevolent entity wants to remake Smash Bros for their own interest and the fighters have to collectively fight to preserve allies and face off against the altered versions of themselves the big bad wants to turn them into.

A little too out there for Nintendo, but it'd be interesting.

 

[zumaddy]

Any of you guys picking up Amiibo? I'm tossing between picking up Byleth or Terry, Byleth is obviously a main but the FE amiibos don't look that great aside from Lucina, meanwhile Terry's looks real nice and pops better as a figure.

Also awaiting to see if Mythra gets an amiibo, I'm too poor for the big nice figure Sakurai has so an amiibo would be a good replacement.

 

[Deleted member]

Any of you guys picking up Amiibo? I'm tossing between picking up Byleth or Terry, Byleth is obviously a main but the FE amiibos don't look that great aside from Lucina, meanwhile Terry's looks real nice and pops better as a figure.

I'm not really a collector kinda guy so I usually don't bother with them. Especially when they're all gone in like 2 days anyway

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

This unrelated and not calling anyone out. But if I hear one more time on Twitter that Ridley is one of the easiest cuts because “Hes not important” I’m gonna lose it. The dude had been wanted since Melee and probably would’ve made it in Brawl had Sakurai known how to design him.

Seriously, Twitter gives me a headache sometimes.

 

[PeridotGX]

Not quite! Ever heard of this game called Super Smash Bros. Ultimate?
Everyone is here!
Let's keep it that way. Smash isn't like Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat where the roster is story based. People play Smash Bros. specifically for the character selection. To cut a fighter in a game where the main selling point is the roster is honestly just disrespectful. Once a Smash Bro., always a Smash Bro.

Let's say there are two more games with no cuts. The roster is at 150. Is that sustainable? 200? 350? Can they balance a game with half a thousand characters?

 

[Ben Holt]

Hot take:
In the future after Crash is a Smash Veteran, whenever we get Spyro as a playable fighter, I think that Skylanders is important enough to the history of video gaming to give Spyro his Skylanders design as an alternate skin.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Hot take:
In the future after Crash is a Smash Veteran, whenever we get Spyro as a playable fighter, I think that Skylanders is important enough to the history of video gaming to give Spyro his Skylanders design as an alternate skin.

I love the sheer confidence that radiates from this post.

 

[Deleted member]

I know we're not even remotely talking about anything related to this right now but

I think this would be a cool way to get a Digimon character and not have it just be the mascots

 

[ZephyrZ]

I'd like to see them try "No-One Is Back" and have a 12 new man (8 default, 4 unlockable) roster. Go all Pokemon Black and White on us. Returning franchises are fine but the fighters themselves have to be new additions. Right down to them being numbered 83 to 95, acknowledging all the previous fighters.

...the idea would fall apart the moment Pokemon company demands Pikachu back or when the Mario Brand Committee vehemently refuse to let Waluigi in but it's a novel approach to think about.

Yeah, release a Super Smash Bros game without Mario, Pikachu, DK and Sonic and see how well it sells.

I think the reason this game idea is never going to happen for more reasons then just TPC and MBC. You'd be cutting a ton of massive names for the sake of a novel gimmick.

And as for the Pokemon Black and White comparison, you could still transfer your favorite Pikachu or Charizard in from a previous game, and people still through a fit over that, causing GF to pander to genwunners for years to come.

 

[Ben Holt]

Let's say there are two more games with no cuts. The roster is at 150. Is that sustainable? 200? 350? Can they balance a game with half a thousand characters?

Pokémon says hi.
The competitive community may be a reactionary hellhole, but it ain't dead yet.
The only hurdle to a 200 character roster would be the selection screen, but that's a simple enough fix with a new UI.

 

[Gazorpazorpfield]

This unrelated and not calling anyone out. But if I hear one more time on Twitter that Ridley is one of the easiest cuts because “Hes not important” I’m gonna lose it. The dude had been wanted since Melee and probably would’ve made it in Brawl had Sakurai known how to design him.

Seriously, Twitter gives me a headache sometimes.

I guess there's a gray area for fan requested characters. Ridley, K Rool and Banjo aren't that big overall, but were clearly big deals within the context of Smash, which must count for something.
I guess if you lump in fan favorites and popular requests you'd get . and were popular, but would probably be here, anyway IMO.

I've heard was a big request during the Sm4sh period. How accurate is that?

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Twitterの認証済みバッジがついていました↑
申請はしておらず、そもそもリクエストを受けていない状態だったと思うのだけど、いつのまに!?
ともあれ、ありがとうございます。

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) March 10, 2021

It had a Twitter certified badge ↑ I haven't applied for it, and I think I hadn't received the request in the first place, but before I knew it !? Anyway, thank you.

 

[Idon]

I know we're not even remotely talking about anything related to this right now but

I think this would be a cool way to get a Digimon character and not have it just be the mascots

Well this is also a... major spoiler...

like... the biggest one in the game.

Pokémon says hi.
The competitive community may be a reactionary hellhole, but it ain't dead yet.
The only hurdle to a 200 character roster would be the selection screen, but that's a simple enough fix with a new UI.

If you gave me an entire week to write an essay about why this comparison does not work, I'd request an extension.

Bro.
They're not even remotely the same in any capacity.

 

[SharkLord]

This unrelated and not calling anyone out. But if I hear one more time on Twitter that Ridley is one of the easiest cuts because “Hes not important” I’m gonna lose it. The dude had been wanted since Melee and probably would’ve made it in Brawl had Sakurai known how to design him.

Seriously, Twitter gives me a headache sometimes.

The more important question here is why you are inflicting self-harm on yourself by looking at Twitter dot com

 

[Ben Holt]

I love the sheer confidence that radiates from this post.

I mean, it's basically a law of nature that whenever Crash does something, Spyro follows.
Plus, once a third party dips their toe into Smash, they tend to dive right in.
I don't think it's an accident that all the characters so far in Fighter's Pass 2 are from companies already invested in Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

Pokémon says hi.
The competitive community may be a reactionary hellhole, but it ain't dead yet.
The only hurdle to a 200 character roster would be the selection screen, but that's a simple enough fix with a new UI.

I mean... with Pokemon, you have much less to work with anyway. Each pokemon can only have 4 moves and 1 item, while a Smash bros character needs at minimum:

4 specials

4 Smash attacks

5 Aerials(4 cardinal directions +neutral)

5 grounded moves(same as above)

4 grabs

etc etc.

Imagine trying to balance the frame data of all of this x300, 400, or even 1000. It's just not feasible, while in Pokemon it doesn't matter anyway since most of the framework has already been done anyway(since most moves are just ones all pokemon can learn while a few get special unique ones)

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Smash is inspired by Pokémon and goes for a 3 digit roster for the next game.

Unfortunately they're also inspired by Pokémon in that to get the full Smash roster you have to buy two games.




Get ready for Super Smash Bros Clash and Super Smash Bros Battle, coming in 2026!

 

[PeridotGX]

Pokémon says hi.
The competitive community may be a reactionary hellhole, but it ain't dead yet.
The only hurdle to a 200 character roster would be the selection screen, but that's a simple enough fix with a new UI.

there's a difference between Pokemon (which are basically just new combanations of pre-existing moves, stats, with a few new animations) to fully fledged Smash movests, with over 50 new animations that must be balanced with every other character, which obviously gets exponentially more intensive with every new fighter.

 

[N3ON]

Your Fire Emblem representation is much cleaner. Chrom can knock out Roy for being similar, as well as Lucina and Robin for repping Awakening. Not bad!

Thanks!

Those 3rd party cuts are pretty bold. I think at least Ryu, Cloud, Hero and Steve can sit with the big boys.

They're big enough, yeah. But my take with Smash is the most "essential" third-parties are the ones that hit the trifecta of being big, being highly desired, and being highly relevant to Nintendo. There are a lot of big characters in gaming, but any third-party that has all three of those qualities yet is absent will probably feel "missing".

Had we not received those aforementioned four, I suspect that feeling wouldn't resound as widely as had we not received Sonic, Mega Man, and Pac-Man. The latter especially with Namco on board.

Aside from that and a couple staples like Falco missing out, this is a clean fat-trimming.

I mean, I also cut Jigglypuff, Sheik, G&W, ICs, etc. I think Star Fox could have another character, but I think both the others being derivative of Fox don't do it any favours in filtering down to the essentials.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Smash is inspired by Pokémon and goes for a 3 digit roster for the next game.

Unfortunately they're also inspired by Pokémon in that to get the full Smash roster you have to buy two games.




Get ready for Super Smash Bros Clash and Super Smash Bros Battle, coming in 2026!

And then he decides to take it up a notch and make a third one a la FE Fates cause **** you, here’s Super Smash Bros Fisticuffs

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

The more important question here is why you are inflicting self-harm on yourself by looking at Twitter dot com

Pretty simple reason for that.

 

[Ben Holt]

Smash is inspired by Pokémon and goes for a 3 digit roster for the next game.

Unfortunately they're also inspired by Pokémon in that to get the full Smash roster you have to buy two games.




Get ready for Super Smash Bros Clash and Super Smash Bros Battle, coming in 2026!

Legends Arceus being GameFreak's flagship project when Sword and Shield + Diamond and Pearl remakes are outsourced gives me hope that Pokémon is on the path to a new formula.

 

[Deleted member]

Well this is also a... major spoiler...

like... the biggest one in the game.

You could probably just use the NX model for the base form and have the regular version be like a FS or something

 

[chocolatejr9]

Pretty simple reason for that.View attachment 306614

There really IS a Spongebob meme for everything...

 

[cashregister9]

【トーナメントイベント】
3/12(金)から3日間、「百花繚乱！ いろんな姿のファイターたち」を開催！カラーチェンジによって変身したり、別人になったり、身に着けているものの形が変わるファイターのみ出場できるトーナメントです。 勝ち進むほど、豪華なスピリッツが手に入ります。#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/wDorl5Ti09

— 大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ【スマブラ公式】 (@SmashBrosJP) March 10, 2021

We got a tourney this week, Characters who have model changes of some sort

 

[Shroob]

There really IS a Spongebob meme for everything...

Spongebob is one of those series that aged like wine.

....Or at least, the Hillenburg era did.

 

[N3ON]

Pokémon says hi.
The competitive community may be a reactionary hellhole, but it ain't dead yet.
The only hurdle to a 200 character roster would be the selection screen, but that's a simple enough fix with a new UI.

Pokemon divides itself into different strata of legal competitive play in which only certain Pokemon are allowed because of how unbalanced it is if you judged it holistically. And even then some Pokemon, moves, items, etc. are still banned.

It's not exactly the picture of balance.