Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Cutie Gwen]

I’d love a Black Knight echo for Ike. It’d give FE a villain, more visual uniqueness, presumably a super heavyweight, and Black Knight is also just a really cool character. I think they would be the best choice for a new FE Rep.

Black Knight's the only time I can think of an AT fitting a character significantly more than an actual character as what makes him one of the best ATs is that running away from him is your only real option, if he was actually playable, he wouldn't have permanent super armour and feel less threatening, not to mention it'd be pretty awkward seeing a dude in huge ass armour doing flips and stuff.

 

[N3ON]

Honestly, I do believe that even characters like Corrin could make a return in a future Smash title. While (s)he's one of the likliest targets for cuts due to his / her status being completely around the promotional angle and the ensuing reaction being mostly negative, the character continues to be used by Intelligent System (in FE Heroes I believe?) and if characters like Roy can be slightly revamped and sold as DLC, so can a character like Corrin.

I think when cuts happen in proper, Corrin stands a good chance at not making it back, but I've never said it's a guarantee or anything. I'm not gonna get that presumptuous.

With that in mind, that much can be said for every FE character. All the ones on the roster are in Heroes; Heroes has hundreds of characters. But when cuts do occur, I think it's quite likely the FE roster doesn't get through the chopping block unscathed.

Also, wasn't Roy brought back when he was because he was popular? I mean I know Sakurai said he was looking for a Melee character (forgetting that he had just re-added Mewtwo, I suppose), but he had several to choose from. Corrin seems more along the Pichu/YL side of things than the Roy side, tbh.

 

[Shroob]

This is probably right, but in that case it feels pretty ****ty that a series / character you really love was just deemed not important enough to fight for.

Sakurai has went back on plenty of ideas and made them fun and functional. I don't think many Rhythm Heaven fans would complain if a central rhythm mechanic was swapped out with attacks moreso inspired by music and quirky minigame fare, but here we are I suppose.

Isn't that just Duck Hunt or Game and Watch though? Replace "Attacks inspired by the minigames" with "Attacks inspired by the zapper" or "Attacks inspired by the G&W" and there you go, suddenly, the RH rep feels less special.


I feel like Rhythm would have to be incorporated into the moveset for a character like Rhythm Heaven, and with Ultimate's online? Hoo boy.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

Will the next DLC fighter be revealed in April? Cause every 2 months we got a reveal.

 

[Shroob]

Will the next DLC fighter be revealed in April? Cause every 2 months we got a reveal.

I mean, Pyra and Mythra just came out.


Even though we have sped up considerably, there's still a 60-90 day gap between characters.

 

[Louie G.]

Isn't that just Duck Hunt or Game and Watch though? Replace "Attacks inspired by the minigames" with "Attacks inspired by the zapper" or "Attacks inspired by the G&W" and there you go, suddenly, the RH rep feels less special.

They'd be special to me because they're from Rhythm Heaven.

Duck Hunt and G&W aren't exactly summoning monkeys with tambourines and attacking with soundwaves sent from guitars or anything like that either. RH has a personality all its own and that in and of itself would make it stand out.

Unique refreshing movesets with brand new mechanics are great and all but most people just want the characters they like from the series they like - not every character needs to feel completely 100% original. I'll make sacrifices to see the characters I love happen... just look at Little Mac. Still happy he's here but he could be a hell of a lot better. Getting him here is the first step though, and I'd much rather have that than the alternative. If you love the character enough you make it work anyway - not that a simpler alternative is even a major loss in my book.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Okay, so to pump the brakes on our millionth FE and cut discussion, how excited would you be if Crash was in Ultimate's base game alongside the Belmonts?

I'd be pretty happy but only if the Crash spin is not his neutral special.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I mean, Pyra and Mythra just came out.


Even though we have sped up considerably, there's still a 60-90 day gap between characters.

And it wouldn't be enough time for CP10 to have been made in 7 months, the average amount of time for a fighter to be made.

 

[TraaP]

I think everyone is sleeping on a Fortnite rep. Nintendo is a company that wants to maximise its profit & advertise its games & develop good relationships with 3rd parties, they rarely listen to fan demand, in FP1 only Banjo was included due to sheer fan demand. Whereas, we’ve had Byleth, Min Min & Pyra/Mythra to advertise their games on the switch. Also, Nintendo kept asking Sakurai to include Steve due to how lucrative Minecraft is & I’m wholly expecting the same thing with Fortnite, sadly.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Black Knight's the only time I can think of an AT fitting a character significantly more than an actual character as what makes him one of the best ATs is that running away from him is your only real option, if he was actually playable, he wouldn't have permanent super armour and feel less threatening, not to mention it'd be pretty awkward seeing a dude in huge ass armour doing flips and stuff.

Thats a very fair point. I just love the idea of Ikes philosophy turned to the max and Black Knights design is my favorite in all of FE.
It would be pretty funny to see that hulking mass of armor do a backflip though.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I think everyone is sleeping on a Fortnite rep.

Well I think everyone is sleeping on Nintendo NOT spending all their money on Smash and Smash alone. They can develop their relationship with Epic by making sure the Switch can support the 9 billion games using the Unreal Engine.

 

[BlondeLombax]

I'd be pretty happy but only if the Crash spin is not his neutral special.

Honestly, the spin works better as a jab. The neutral could potentially be the fruit bazooka or a similar technique he learns in the games.

I think everyone is sleeping on a Fortnite rep.

It’s not that they’re sleeping on a Fortnite rep, it’s that they’re deliberately trying to keep a Fortnite rep locked up in an Alcatraz-level prison. You understand how contested the game is, right?

 

[Shroob]

And it wouldn't be enough time for CP10 to have been made in 7 months, the average amount of time for a fighter to be made.

Absolute earliest I can see is May, but at that point I feel like they'll just save it for the June Direct, unless they bamboozle us all and plan to end the pass in the June Direct with CP11's trailer.

But April? No chance in hell.

 

[Ivander]

The only thing I add to the Fire Emblem Discussion is I think Lyn should be added at some point. She continues to be one if, if not the Most Popular Fire Emblem character (along with Ike). She shouldn't be stuck in the Globe forever

I think timing is going to be her most important ally in becoming playable for Smash. Chrom was a high want in the Smash ballot and he was easy to make an Echo fighter and Byleth was planned, but thankfully had Three Houses being very popular on his side. Lyn's best chance at getting in Smash might be a Fire Emblem 7 remake at the right time. And it also helps that the Fire Emblem Echoes director wants to do Fire Emblem 6, Roy's game, so there is the possibility of a FE6/7 combined remake.

I’d love a Black Knight echo for Ike. It’d give FE a villain, more visual uniqueness, presumably a super heavyweight, and Black Knight is also just a really cool character. I think they would be the best choice for a new FE Rep.

I don't think Black Knight would work as a proper Echo of Ike. Black Knight would be cool though.

Considering how he used that teleporting powder stuff quite a lot in his game, I want to imagine him with a gameplay-style like Exdeath from Dissidia. He moves super slow, but he has teleport for mobility and he can attack fast from a teleport. He also has attacks with powerful Super armor, making him a character who wants to rely on timing, where he wants to take a hit to deliver a powerful hit back, sorta like how Exdeath has his Guard attacks where he wants to guard attacks to follow-up with very quick or powerful attacks back.

 

[Technomage]

Oh, I got another idea for Crash: He should be like Mega Man, in that he has a custom explosion; as in after he explodes, his shoes (and maybe his eyeballs, too) get sent flying in the opposite direction, then eventually fall into the blast zone to vanish. I'd be disappointed if Nintendo failed to add that tiny little detail.

 

[BlondeLombax]

Oh, I got another idea for Crash: He should be like Mega Man, in that he has a custom explosion; as in after he explodes, his shoes (and maybe his eyeballs, too) get sent flying in the opposite direction, then eventually fall into the blast zone to vanish. I'd be disappointed if Nintendo failed to add that tiny little detail.

I nominate didgeridoo angel!

 

[SpecterFlower]

I feel like the idea that the old should be replaced by the new kind of falls apart when you realize that Roy was intended to be brought back for Brawl alongside Ike. He wasn't replaced, he was out prioritized and a victim of time constraints. He wasn't an intentional cut like Pichu or a literal replacement like Young Link being dropped for Toon Link.

that was when the roster was in the 30's, right now it's a 80 character roster, cut's need to happen or the team will have to develop around 100 characters for the next game. they are unavoidable.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Mostly due to the main characters of every Zelda game, Link & Zelda, already being in Smash, so they represent the newest game by themselves. Link & Zelda would have likely been updated to Skyward Sword if not for Ganondorf not having a design in that game..this time it was practically required for Link to be updated to his BotW look, another game lacking a Ganondorf, so I think Sakurai instead decided to represent previous entries with Zelda's LttP/LBW fusion design and Ganondorf's OoT design..which thanks to the remake of Ocarina of Time on 3DS was funnily enough his most recently used design, not counting Hyrule Warriors due to being a spinoff.

...No they don't?

Link's BotW changes are pretty much visual-only, aside from the Bombs. There's literally no other mechanics involved. And I doubt the general SS update would have been a thing, because Ultimate pretty much proves the Triforce trio's aesthetics don't hve to be confined to the same game for all 3 of them. And even then, Zelda is still using her specials taken from OoT and Spirit Tracks of all things, while using her ALttP design.

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but I'm kinda tired to see this argument only being used against Zelda, of all Nintendo franchises. It doesn't matter if a game is "repped" by items or stages, Smash is a character crossover, people want to play as characters.

The latter absolutely.

Especially if it was lets say a LoL guessing game or a Pokemon guessing game. Doubly especially since Riot / Tencent and TPC would most likely take advantage and market the **** out of a guessing game.

I mean, at least the Pokémon guessing game wouldn't have as many heated discussions as the League one...

 

[Technomage]

that was when the roster was in the 30's, right now it's a 80 character roster, cut's need to happen or the team will have to develop around 100 characters for the next game. they are unavoidable.

Yeah, imagine all the corners they'd have to cut.

 

[Shroob]

...No they don't?

Link's BotW changes are pretty much visual-only, aside from the Bombs. There's literally no other mechanics involved. And I doubt the general SS update would have been a thing, because Ultimate pretty much proves the Triforce trio's aesthetics don't hve to be confined to the same game for all 3 of them. And even then, Zelda is still using her specials taken from OoT and Spirit Tracks of all things, while using her ALttP design.

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but I'm kinda tired to see this argument only being used against Zelda, of all Nintendo franchises. It doesn't matter if a game is "repped" by items or stages, Smash is a character crossover, people want to play as characters.



I mean, at least the Pokémon guessing game wouldn't have as many heated discussions as the League one...

Would we even bother with a League guessing game?

In a game with like 120+ characters, at that point it's just best to wait it out, especially since you can write off a good chunk of the characters in LoL as not happening from the start.

 

[7NATOR]

I think everyone is sleeping on a Fortnite rep. Nintendo is a company that wants to maximise its profit & advertise its games & develop good relationships with 3rd parties, they rarely listen to fan demand, in FP1 only Banjo was included due to sheer fan demand. Whereas, we’ve had Byleth, Min Min & Pyra/Mythra to advertise their games on the switch. Also, Nintendo kept asking Sakurai to include Steve due to how lucrative Minecraft is & I’m wholly expecting the same thing with Fortnite, sadly.

I mean I don't know if Fortnite was being slept on. we had a period where they were heavily talked about

Anyway I don't think it's that simple. Remember that Nintendo has to talk to Epic games to have Fortnite in Smash, and that Might requires alot of time, and potentially alot of Money. Nintendo will have had to judge whether they could get a Fortnite character in Smash in time for FP2, and also how money is gonna go into implementing Fortnite in Smash, as well as balancing that with other characters in FP2, including Steve

So I'm not entirely sure if putting Fortnite in FP2 would be maximizing the profit that Nintendo is making. Especially this late into the pass and with how even with a game like Smash, less and less people buy into the game as time goes on, in terms of retention rate. However Fortnite is a big game and Smash X Fortnite would be a big deal, even if it will get alot of hate from good amount of people, more than Minecraft, so Nintendo get alot of money from that perhaps

I do think Nintendo and Epic games did talk about Smash, and Perhaps they might have plans in the future, so even if not in FP2, I do think Fortnite will have some type of presence in Smash in the future, whether New game, or expansion or whatever.

 

[BlondeLombax]

team will have to develop around 100 characters for the next game.

Exaggeration aside, at this point, do you seriously doubt that the folks at SORA will deny a challenge of that caliber? We’ve already got everybody back, so that’s more than enough work cut out for them; it gives them more time to develop more newcomers in the base roster than Wii U. This is all just speculation, but at this point, I just can’t see the limits in this franchise anymore.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Exaggeration aside, at this point, do you seriously doubt that the folks at SORA will deny a challenge of that caliber? We’ve already got everybody back, so that’s more than enough work cut out for them; it gives them more time to develop more newcomers than before.

ESPECIALLY if it’s an Ultimate Deluxe/Encore, you’d just bring literally WHAT YOU ALREADY GOT over since it’s the same engine

... idk why but I think Super Smash Bros Ultimate Encore sounds better than Deluxe. Not just because of TMS Encore either

 

[Dan Quixote]

Black Knight's the only time I can think of an AT fitting a character significantly more than an actual character as what makes him one of the best ATs is that running away from him is your only real option, if he was actually playable, he wouldn't have permanent super armour and feel less threatening, not to mention it'd be pretty awkward seeing a dude in huge ass armour doing flips and stuff.

Gah so true. Whenever that assist pops out, I try to be a hero and take it out with some well-timed smash attacks, but I just end up eating crap for it every single time. So good at being Black Knight.

I think everyone is sleeping on a Fortnite rep.

My pipest of pipe dreams is a Jonesy/Ramirez Mii costume (could either be Swordfighter with the pickaxe or just Gunner) that comes with music like Sans and Cuphead, but not in the same way. Instead, if a Mii wins while wearing the wig or outfit, the victory theme is replaced by the Fortnite default dance. Can you IMAGINE how tilting it would be? I love it.

 

[Louie G.]

By the way, to answer the question posed before I believe that would be a cut that goes over pretty easy with minimal backlash.

From a character standpoint, she's literally just Samus without her suit - meanwhile Metroid has picked up two additional characters who I'm certain more people have personal attachment to than an alternate version of the main character, and by now it's clear Metroid is no longer starved for content like it used to be. People enjoy ZSS's moveset, but her archetype is one that can be found in various other characters too. I'm sure that when it really hits the fan and characters have to go, most people would understand why ZSS doesn't return in the same way they'd understand why Dr. Mario doesn't (just that she's fully unique).
I don't think the same applies to though. Aside from representing a Zelda from a different timeline, I feel like she's seen as a much more central part of Smash (everyone loves the token ninja). Zero Suit is kind of a staple at this point for other reasons, but I think that could be represented by a victory screen where Samus takes her helmet off or something to that extent. She doesn't really need to be a full character anymore, at least IMO.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Its a pity that Nintendo isn't keen on having many of its games compete in the same genre because continued ports/re-releases of Ultimate co-existing alongside a new Smash series would be a pretty interesting compromise. Allow the franchise to go in a fresh direction, including with characters while still having the beloved culmination title active for those that prefer it. I can immediately understand why they wouldn't given even the slightest possibility of one cannibalizing sales of the other, but man it'd make for a decent scenario if it did happen.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Would we even bother with a League guessing game?

In a game with like 120+ characters, at that point it's just best to wait it out, especially since you can write off a good chunk of the characters in LoL as not happening from the start.

We? Maybe not everyone here, just the peeps who care for it.

The League fanbase, though? Yeeeeah, not looking forward to that.

 

[Dinoman96]

Yeah I feel like Zero Suit Samus has mostly served her purpose at this point. Like I don't actively want her or really anyone to be cut, but she was only really included in Brawl as Sakurai's desperate attempt at saying he added a new Metroid character without having to add Ridley. But now that we have Ridley, she doesn't feel as needed.

 

[Dan Quixote]

By the way, to answer the question posed before I believe that would be a cut that goes over pretty easy with minimal backlash.

Yeah I feel like Zero Suit Samus has mostly served her purpose at this point. Like I don't want actively her or really anyone to be cut, but she was only really included in Brawl as Sakurai's desperate attempt at saying he added a new Metroid character without having to add Ridley. But now that we have Ridley, she doesn't feel as needed.

ngl, maybe hot take, but if I were Mr. Smash I'd represent Metroid with just Samus and maybe Ridley and then just hella stage bosses. (And Samus would be reworked to play more accurate to the series of course)

We? Maybe not everyone here, just the peeps who care for it.

The League fanbase, though? Yeeeeah, not looking forward to that.

Just like my earlier stated Fortnite idea, I want LoL guessing game just for that sweet sweet rule of funny

 

[Opossum]

that was when the roster was in the 30's, right now it's a 80 character roster, cut's need to happen or the team will have to develop around 100 characters for the next game. they are unavoidable.

I mean, of course cuts are inevitable going forward. I've made clear my position that anyone going in expecting an "Ultimate Deluxe" is setting themselves up for disappointment.

What I was saying in that post was that there's no historical precedent for Fire Emblem, specifically, of an older character being "replaced" by a newer one because they were old, but rather, as a victim of time constraints.

Cuts are inevitable. I was merely speaking about the circumstances of the cuts. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

 

[Pillow]

Black Knight's the only time I can think of an AT fitting a character significantly more than an actual character as what makes him one of the best ATs is that running away from him is your only real option, if he was actually playable, he wouldn't have permanent super armour and feel less threatening, not to mention it'd be pretty awkward seeing a dude in huge ass armour doing flips and stuff.

Idk I have a hard time imagining the Moon to be a better playable fighter than assist trophy

Would we even bother with a League guessing game?

In a game with like 120+ characters, at that point it's just best to wait it out, especially since you can write off a good chunk of the characters in LoL as not happening from the start.

I don’t want any League character but it’d be pretty funny to see everyone discuss ahri, yasuo, and teemo only for the LoL rep to be some forgotten relic like Yorick.

 

[Shroob]

Also

You know what grinds my gears?


I'm not even a Monster Hunter fan, and I saw in SOO MANY reaction videos people stumbling over how to say "Felyne".


Like... c'mon, it's feline, but with a Y, not that hard.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Idk I have a hard time imagining the Moon to be a better playable fighter than assist trophy



I don’t want any League character but it’d be pretty funny to see everyone discuss ahri, yasuo, and teemo only for the LoL rep to be some forgotten relic like Yorick.

Ok ok but

what if it’s Seraphine

 

[Shroob]

Ok ok but

what if it’s Seraphine

Sona knockoff.

 

[Idon]

half the thread: starts discussing the inevitability of roster cuts.
the other half of the thread:

 

[ZelDan]

I think we can all agree what the best AT promotion would be

Spoiler

That's right, Flies and hand!

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Yeah I feel like Zero Suit Samus has mostly served her purpose at this point. Like I don't actively want her or really anyone to be cut, but she was only really included in Brawl as Sakurai's desperate attempt at saying he added a new Metroid character without having to add Ridley. But now that we have Ridley, she doesn't feel as needed.

Would Dark Samus survive the next game?

 

[Pillow]

Ok ok but

what if it’s Seraphine

Worst timeline

Would Dark Samus survive the next game?

I'd say probably yes. Echoes seem pretty safe to me, considering they take just a little more effort than adding a palette swap.

 

[Dinoman96]

Would Dark Samus survive the next game?

Maybe? She clearly isn't a time consuming character to implement due to just being an almost complete carbon copy of Samus outside of a few animations.

 

[MooMew64]

I don't think we can really discuss cuts properly when Smash 6 is almost certainly at least 5+ years down the road. Cuts are something that require Nintendo's current environment and media plans to really have good theories for, and who knows what the heck's gonna happen by Smash 6.