Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[True Blue Warrior]

A lot of people. For some reason you seem to think a small portion of the fanbase isn't massive. Let's say only 1% of Smash players will want Corrin back if they get cut. That's still over 228500 people who'd want Corrin back.

Yeah but it is small in comparison to other potentially cut characters' fanbases. That's the kicker. Pichu, Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Young Link didn't have near as much fervor as Mewtwo, Roy, Wolf, Ice Climbers, and Snake did. The former group was significantly smaller and mostly comprised of people who wanted every cut character back, from what I saw, while the latter group was far larger.

I’m pretty sure King K. Rool did better than Pichu, Young Link, Squirtle and Ivysaur on the ballot despite not having had veteran privileges (he was one of the few characters specifically cited to be in based off the ballot and he isn’t a bonus Echo so he must have done incredibly well).

 

[Golden Icarus]

The thing is, if and when cuts start happening, and Corrin gets cut, it isn't just going to be Corrin that gets cut. There are definitely going to be other series that experience cuts, and indeed perhaps other characters within the same series. Not to mention probable third-parties.

So whoever is clamouring to get Corrin back at that point would probably be drowned out by the cries to get characters back that the fanbase actually liked. I mean imagine how requested any of the third-parties would become were they cut. To that end, Roy was a character liked by the fanbase, despite his unoriginality. Which explains why so many people wanted to see him return.

Cutting characters boosts their popularity, but not every cut character will rest amongst the most popular requests.

I guess this discussion is kind of difficult to have given we have no idea what Smash 6 is gonna look like. For what it's worth, I don't picture the same downsized roster that many others are. I feel that Smash is basically gonna be Ultimate Plus going forward.

Either way, I feel like there are a lot of Corrin fans that would come out of the shadows in the event that they get cut. Even though Fates is despised by a large chunk of the FE fanbase, the game still sold really well (much better than Binding Blade) and was met with generally positive reviews. Surely there are plenty of Fates fans that would be eager to see Corrin return.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

It's a shame what happened with Corrin because, to be honest, I think from a moveset perspective they're probably the most interesting Fire Emblem character we've got. The dragon stuff is pretty awesome and they offer some interesting mechanics that I feel are wholly unique to them.

But when you get down to it, there are hundreds of characters who could be refreshing and fun. Corrin's moveset is cool, but their character brings nothing of value (zero personality and not even liked in their own series). Doubling down on same franchise DLC among only six characters in a series that already got two brand new ones in the base game is something that I would raise an eyebrow at even if it was my favorite franchise. There's little excuse for why Corrin specifically was chosen, and it screwed over the reputation of Fire Emblem as a whole in the process.

I feel like normally it'd be odd to linger on the addition of one character for such a long time (it still kinda is) but I feel like Corrin was genuinely a significant turning point in how the community responded to new characters in general.

Corrin was also the only Nintendo-based DLC newcomer, announced right after Cloud and before the Bayonetta finale, pretty much had the worst reveal trailer of the bunch, and was marketed the poorest with not much music and no stage. That's not counting for the fact only Japan had the source game at the time to be marketed to, with most other regional fanbases unable to discernably determine Fates' quality.

Most of my Smash 4 ire didn't even come from Corrin, but I can certainly see why it became the perfect storm.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yeah but it is small in comparison to other potentially cut characters' fanbases. That's the kicker. Pichu, Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Young Link didn't have near as much fervor as Mewtwo, Roy, Wolf, Ice Climbers, and Snake did. The former group was significantly smaller and mostly comprised of people who wanted every cut character back, from what I saw, while the latter group was far larger.

I'm aware, my point is that even a small portion of the fanbase is pretty damn sizeable so even the least popular characters would have plenty of fans wanting them back. It's also just tiring of seeing people whine about Corrin for the millionth time when it's literally been over 5 years ago and people reqlly need to get over it

I’m pretty sure King K. Rool did better than Pichu, Young Link, Squirtle and Ivysaur on the ballot despite not having had veteran privileges (he was one of the few characters specifically cited to be in based off the ballot and he isn’t a bonus Echo so he must have done incredibly well).

Damn, gonna tell Isaac, Lloyd, Krystal and Geno fans their favourites aren't popular at all because they aren't the most popular after this amazing revelation

 

[Dan Quixote]

I could be way off on this, but I think something you guys are missing about cuts from SSBU is the fact that this massive 90-character roster is yknow, massive. Cuts for pretty much any fighter will probably have a lot less backlash than any cuts previously, even unique ones like Corrin or Wolf or a lot of the 3rd-party DLC, just because it'll be divided among so many. You'll probably see people mad on social media but that's cuz social media.

 

[Otoad64]

A lot of people. For some reason you seem to think a small portion of the fanbase isn't massive. Let's say only 1% of Smash players will want Corrin back if they get cut. That's still over 228500 people who'd want Corrin back.

it's not that I think it isn't massive.

it's that when people say "this fanbase" they mean the majority.

1% is not the majority, which means 1% is not "this fanbase", which means that "this fanbase" will not care about Corrin, even if 228500 people do.

 

[SKX31]

I'm honestly very curious as to how people would react if Corrin was cut. Corrin gets a lot of flack for being the tipping point with FE representation and isn't nearly as celebrated as the other FE characters. But given how passionate people get over cut characters, I have to wonder if people would rally for Corrin to be brought back. A lot of fans did that for Roy and his moveset isn't nearly as interesting Corrin's.

There are a few people, such as Cosmos - a prolific pro Corrin player who's played him during 4 and most of Ultimate and is a decently popular Youtuber / VTuber by Smash standards* - who would probably miss the character. Partly because players like him do place quite a lot of value on the time spent playing as their character of choice and the stories created during that time, and partly because they like the character itself (or at least aspects of it / what it's supposed to be),

People like him are in the minority here, but a lot of them would no doubt make their voices heard if such a cut happens. Most would probably move on, but given that the fanbase split between the Melee and Brawl scenes as early as 2008 / 2009, it's safe to say that some of them would be more incentived to stay with Ultimate over a possible Smash 6.

*He's currently not playing tournaments - probably because he does not want to deal with Ultimate's online.

Yeah but it is small in comparison to other potentially cut characters' fanbases. That's the kicker. Pichu, Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Young Link didn't have near as much fervor as Mewtwo, Roy, Wolf, Ice Climbers, and Snake did. The former group was significantly smaller and mostly comprised of people who wanted every cut character back, from what I saw, while the latter group was far larger.

TBF, I do kinda think the equation will change some now when Pichu's not intentionally a joke character (instead a legitimate character with its own strings such as the Lightning Loops) and the other three likewise gained in standing. Not to say that the former group will become a majority (it's safe to say far from, regardless of what the context looks like when Smash 6 comes around), but the characters' increase in standing might make sure that their fans will miss them next time around.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Damn, gonna tell Isaac, Lloyd, Krystal and Geno fans their favourites aren't popular at all because they aren't the most popular after this amazing revelation

I mean... people already do that for these characters so congratulations on telling those supporters stuff they already have heard a million times before, I suppose.

 

[Opossum]

I'm aware, my point is that even a small portion of the fanbase is pretty damn sizeable so even the least popular characters would have plenty of fans wanting them back. It's also just tiring of seeing people whine about Corrin for the millionth time when it's literally been over 5 years ago and people reqlly need to get over it

Damn, gonna tell Isaac, Lloyd, Krystal and Geno fans their favourites aren't popular at all because they aren't the most popular after this amazing revelation

I mean, is it really a surprise? Corrin is kind of the perfect storm of a character who's incredibly controversial both among the Smash fanbase and their home series fanbase. That's not really the kind of character that just unanimously enters people's good graces just because time has passed.

Like, for Byleth, I absolutely think history will be kinder to them going forward, as people would recognize that Three Houses is an incredibly popular game and a pivotal game in the franchise. The same...really can't be said for Corrin.

 

[Pillow]

I guess this discussion is kind of difficult to have given we have no idea what Smash 6 is gonna look like. For what it's worth, I don't picture the same downsized roster that many others are. I feel that Smash is basically gonna be Ultimate Plus going forward.

Either way, I feel like there are a lot of Corrin fans that would come out of the shadows in the event that they get cut. Even though Fates is despised by a large chunk of the FE fanbase, the game still sold really well (much better than Binding Blade) and was met with generally positive reviews. Surely there are plenty of Fates fans that would be eager to see Corrin return.

Even if people weren't a fan of Fates, there are probably enough Smash fans that enjoy his moveset to lobby for his return.

As to the direction of Smash 6, I could see it going either way. But even if we do get roster cuts, I don't see the final roster size being smaller than Ultimate's. That's never happened for Smash.

 

[Metal Shop X]

No joke, that post on Schaffrillas Productions make me want to see his video on FE characters now.

Will tell you what I think when I come back.

 

[N3ON]

I guess this discussion is kind of difficult to have given we have no idea what Smash 6 is gonna look like. For what it's worth, I don't picture the same downsized roster that many others are. I feel that Smash is basically gonna be Ultimate Plus going forward.

Either way, I feel like there are a lot of Corrin fans that would come out of the shadows in the event that they get cut. Even though Fates is despised by a large chunk of the FE fanbase, the game still sold really well (much better than Binding Blade) and was met with generally positive reviews. Surely there are plenty of Fates fans that would be eager to see Corrin return.

Yes, they would. But my point is they'd be far outmatched if they cut more well-liked characters. Which would be hard not to do considering Corrin's reception.

And I mean, we got characters cut who were from OoT/MM, Gold/Silver, and were Gen 1 starters, and comparatively fewer people seemed to care than when they cut the characters from Mother 3 and FE6, games that don't even exist in most of the world. So I'm not sure how well stressing the success of Fates holds.

 

[ZelDan]

I'll go ahead and say that I don't hate Corrin, and I wasn't even really mad at their inclusion back during the final Smash 4 presentation. I was madly indifferent and not looking forward to the Smash community's salt, but I wasn't personally mad or upset. (it probably helps I got Bayonetta out of that direct, who was really hype for me).

That said, if the next Smash game does have cuts, and FE presumably is one of the targets, I imagine Corrin would be one of the highest priorities to cut, and while, again, I'm not upset about their existence in Smash, I wouldn't exactly lose sleep over their cut either.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Yes, they would. But my point is they'd be far outmatched if they cut more well-liked characters. Which would be hard not to do considering Corrin's reception.

And I mean, we got characters cut who were from OoT/MM, Gold/Silver, and were Gen 1 starters, and comparatively fewer people seemed to care than when they cut the characters from Mother 3 and FE6, games that don't even exist in most of the world. So I'm not sure how well stressing the success of Fates holds.

Hypothetically speaking, if Piranha Plant was cut in the next game, how requested would it be?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

it's not that I think it isn't massive.

it's that when people say "this fanbase" they mean the majority.

1% is not the majority, which means 1% is not "this fanbase", which means that "this fanbase" will not care about Corrin, even if 228500 people do.

Yes but that's still gonna be 228500 telling Nintendo they want Corrin back, meaning Nintendo will know there are 228500 who would want to spend money on Corrin coming back

I mean... people already do that for these characters so congratulations on telling those supporters stuff they already haven’t heard a million times before, I suppose.

My point is that just because something isn't the most popular thing on the planet doesn't mean it's not popular at all

I mean, is it really a surprise? Corrin is kind of the perfect storm of a character who's incredibly controversial both among the Smash fanbase and their home series fanbase. That's not really the kind of character that just unanimously enters people's good graces just because time has passed.

Like, for Byleth, I absolutely think history will be kinder to them going forward, as people would recognize that Three Houses is an incredibly popular game and a pivotal game in the franchise. The same...really can't be said for Corrin.

I agree with Byleth but if you're still upset because of a single character that was added 5 years ago, you're just pathetic. Imagine if people were just as mad about say, Animal Crossing amiibo Festival or Federation Force to this day. You'd think "Come the **** on, it's been five goddamn years, grow the hell up".

 

[Technomage]

I'll go ahead and say that I don't hate Corrin, and I wasn't even really mad at their inclusion back during the final Smash 4 presentation. I was madly indifferent and not looking forward to the Smash community's salt, but I wasn't personally mad or upset. (it probably helps I got Bayonetta out of that direct, who was really hype for me).

That said, if the next Smash game does have cuts, and FE presumably is one of the targets, I imagine Corrin would be one of the highest priorities to cut, and while, again, I'm not upset about their existence in Smash, I wouldn't exactly lose sleep over their cut either.

Plus, Corrin isn't a Marth clone, nor does he play similarly to Marth or even Ike ad Roy. Thus, I do agree that it should get higher priority (at least more priority than Chrom and Lucina).

 

[Idon]

Hypothetically speaking, if Piranha Plant was cut in the next game, how requested would it be?

Probably not very requested, but you will find people who are like "I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY CUT ONE OF THE MOST UNIQUE FIGHTERS AND ICONIC ENEMIES IN THE WORLD FOR [insert recent Nintendo JRPG protagonist].
#Plantgang until I die"

 

[N3ON]

Hypothetically speaking, if Piranha Plant was cut in the next game, how requested would it be?

Well it all depends on who else gets cut, but I think it'd be towards the lower end compared to other characters. Piranha Plant has been pretty divisive since it showed up.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Plus, Corrin isn't a Marth clone, nor does he play similarly to Marth or even Ike ad Roy. Thus, I do agree that it should get higher priority (at least more priority than Chrom and Lucina).

Corrin from a gameplay perspective is pretty well designed with his own individuality.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

He is, but as a character he's no longer relevant as his games are quite old by this point. Popularity & Relevance are different things..like Cloud wasn't super relevant when he was added to Smash, though he's clearly the most popular FF character, but he is relevant now due to FFVII Remake. I do advocate keeping him over not, but between him, Robin, Corrin, & Byleth, he's the least different from Marth.

It's also why I want Lyn added, due to being the most popular female character and adding a female FE that isn't a clone of alternate costume.

I care about popularity way more than I care about recency. Also lol at caring about recency but keeping over Ike.

With all due respect, I think cutting older characters just so that you can have the new hotness in their place is an awful mindset that ignores any value or fanbase these older characters might have and makes for a boring roster that dates itself quickly

On the contrary, it makes each game in a series more worth playing. Keep the most popular characters, cut the least popular, and add new characters. Do you think every fighting game series except Smash is made with an awful mindset?

There's not much else you can do to represent the newest game in Smash..trophies & Spirits are rather poor representation for a new game and a stage without a character is an odd choice. When you represent the newest game with such things instead of a character, people feel a bit underwhelmed, like the Xenoblade X & Xenoblade 2 fanbase felt about their representation until Pyra/Mythra (and still feel about the lack of Elma).

The newest game doesn't need to be represented at all.

I feel like the idea that the old should be replaced by the new kind of falls apart when you realize that Roy was intended to be brought back for Brawl alongside Ike. He wasn't replaced, he was out prioritized and a victim of time constraints. He wasn't an intentional cut like Pichu or a literal replacement like Young Link being dropped for Toon Link.

Being a low priority is not far from being replaced when the new character is a higher priority.

I feel like that's a bold assumption when, for example, many people are still bummed Hoenn and Unova got skipped over for Pokémon additions to this day, and people who wanted Elma are still upset X got ignored entirely.

Obviously you can't please everyone, but such omissions will always be noticed for franchises that swap out casts consistently. Even looking at Fire Emblem, there are all the fans of Lyn who are still sad that Blazing Blade was skipped.

Yeah, you can't please everyone. I don't see another point being made here.

I really like having the Awakening trio. They're echos so they barely count as true fighters. They're just icing on the cake. If there were 3 more unique fighters from awakening, I would agree.

Roy has Smash importance and has become Smash royalty to me and others. Corrin on the other hand really is the only character I truly believe does not fit into Smash. There's nothing that makes him notable to Nintendo or gaming. He feels like a choice that would've been done by the people in charge of PlayStation All-Stars. I really haven't heard anything flattering about his game and FE fans don't seem to like the character. Thanks to Corrin, Byleth was received even worse than she would've been which is pretty unfair.

Corrin is better off cut from Smash. I wouldn't really say that about literally any other fighter we have.

This is laughable. You don't give any supporting reasons for liking Roy more than Corrin. For all we know, if Corrin had come first, you'd love her and hate Roy.

One other thing I want to bring up is that, when people say they should focus on popularity rather than importance and add in popular side characters, they're missing something.

Namely that, by and large, the most popular characters in the franchise are the Lords. Of the lords in Smash, you can make the argument that most of Roy's popularity comes from Smash due to his particularly unique circumstances, but characters like Marth, Ike, Chrom, and Lucina are legitimately some of the most popular characters in the franchise, and Byleth could quite easily keep up with them too (despite being significantly less popular than the three House Leaders).

Maybe some people are mistaken about which characters are popular, but there are probably people who aren't and still hold the above principle.

 

[Opossum]

Yes but that's still gonna be 228500 telling Nintendo they want Corrin back, meaning Nintendo will know there are 228500 who would want to spend money on Corrin coming back

My point is that just because something isn't the most popular thing on the planet doesn't mean it's not popular at all

I agree with Byleth but if you're still upset because of a single character that was added 5 years ago, you're just pathetic. Imagine if people were just as mad about say, Animal Crossing amiibo Festival or Federation Force to this day. You'd think "Come the **** on, it's been five goddamn years, grow the hell up".

You're attacking strawmen again.

Context is hard sometimes, but the context here is cuts for future games. Ergo, it makes sense that, if cuts should happen, people would want characters they like to be kept, and those they dislike to be cut. Calling people pathetic for not mindlessly Consuming Product is super dumb in this context. People are allowed to dislike characters. I'm a huge Fire Emblem fan and I'll be the first to say that I'd lose zero sleep over Corrin being cut.

 

[Louie G.]

To be honest, I know a lot of people do like Byleth but they don't particularly get a pass from me either. If Nintendo really wanted to show off something hot and new on Switch, it would have been great for them to take the opportunity to endorse a brand new promising IP like Ring Fit and Astral Chain. I feel like Fire Emblem has just evolved into the defacto "promotion" series on precedent and Nintendo took advantage of that again. The same could be said about Corrin relative to say, Elma or even Inkling (although I'm happy they waited until Ultimate to do them justice).

Their addition doesn't feel as egregious anymore with Min Min and Pyra / Mythra in tow, but I think there's still a case to be made for Byleth being a somewhat poor choice among other series that have been less fortunate and could have used a similar endorsement. Three Houses was already a success and Fire Emblem had gotten its boost from Smash plenty of times over already.

I feel like this is something that doesn't get acknowledged enough. A lot of criticism against the abundance of Fire Emblem is founded in relativity to other series in Smash - "why does Fire Emblem have eight characters and [insert series even though we all know I'm talking about Donkey Kong] only have this many?" I think a much stronger case is to realize how many series don't have a single character and how those opportunities are squandered in favor of piling on love for series that have already got it in spades. Just my two cents anyway.

 

[Technomage]

I feel like this is something that doesn't get acknowledged enough. A lot of criticism against the abundance of Fire Emblem is founded in relativity to other series in Smash - "why does Fire Emblem have eight characters and [insert series even though we all know I'm talking about Donkey Kong] only have this many?" I think a much stronger case is to realize how many series don't have a single character and how those opportunities are squandered in favor of piling on love for series that have already got it in spades. Just my two cents anyway.

Not to mention that some of the outrage is due to half of the FE roster being Marth copies.

 

[PeridotGX]

Hypothetically speaking, if Piranha Plant was cut in the next game, how requested would it be?

I think it'd be pretty popular, but almost 100% for the memes. #PlantGang would be back in full force.

 

[Dinoman96]

To be honest, I know a lot of people do like Byleth but they don't particularly get a pass from me either. If Nintendo really wanted to show off something hot and new on Switch, it would have been great for them to take the opportunity to endorse a brand new promising IP like Ring Fit and Astral Chain. I feel like Fire Emblem has just evolved into the defacto "promotion" series on precedent and Nintendo took advantage of that again. The same could be said about Corrin relative to say, Elma or even Inkling (although I'm happy they waited until Ultimate to do them justice).

See, I'd agree with this, but thinking it through, it does make sense.

It is really risky to bet on an all new original IP like that when it could easily bomb and be forgotten about. Like imagine if Sakurai caught wind of Wonderful 101's development back when planning Smash 4's roster in early 2012 and decided to put in Wonder Red as a fighter...only for his game to come out and completely bomb, it'd be really awkward. It's obvious that they want new IPs to properly "prove" themselves before giving them Smash rights. And FP2 was probably decided on before either AC or RFA came out and proved themselves.

Thus, it's a safer bet to include a character from an already established and popular franchise like Fire Emblem for promotional purposes.

 

[Shroob]

I'm surprised people are soo gung-ho about discussing cuts right after a new character drops. I dunno, it just seems like crazy that this is our 3rd day in a row on this very topic.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You're attacking strawmen again.

Context is hard sometimes, but the context here is cuts for future games. Ergo, it makes sense that, if cuts should happen, people would want characters they like to be kept, and those they dislike to be cut. Calling people pathetic for not mindlessly Consuming Product is super dumb in this context. People are allowed to dislike characters. I'm a huge Fire Emblem fan and I'll be the first to say that I'd lose zero sleep over Corrin being cut.

I don't care much for Corrin either but seeing people insist Corrin's one of the worst things that happened after 5 ****ing years is so tiring. Literally nothing new has been said at all during any of this and it's just ****ting on characters because **** them. Cut discussion's always been ****ing stale and is ironically enough completely offtopic for the thread but people need to say "Corrin bad give like" I suppose. I'm calling people pathetic for letting a 5 year old announcement stay rent ****ing free, I've gotten over Banjo forever ago so I felt like my fellow adults should get over themselves too

 

[Diddy Kong]

The thing about early Fire Emblem, and modern Fire Emblem to some degree, is that the characters follow a formula. Like while you do get some outliers that have differences with their classes, many of them are practically the same gameplay-wise. Not just with their weapons, but in the gameplay role they play. Like you can have easy Echo Fighters of Alm, Celica, Sigurd, Seliph, Leif, Eliwood, Eirika and Alfonse.
And some of the other Lords with different weapons can still have easy Echos too, like Lyn can practically have any Myrmidon character as an alternate or Echo, Ephraim and Dimitri can Echo each other, Hector and Timeskip Edelgard can Echo each other if they don't give Edelgard any magic she can learn, Micaiah is a tougher one due to her light magic, but she could still get an Echo that focuses on similarly styled, but different magic in a sort of Ryu/Ken way(like Micaiah using Light magic and her Echo using Fire Magic that has similar attacks and hit boxes) and Claude can have an Echo of Takumi or another Bow character.

It's not so much that they aren't capable of unique movesets, but it's more that because they follow a formula that has stayed with Fire Emblem, it's just easy to make Echos out of them or for them.

I say they should totally capitalize on this formula, and make many Echoes. The Fire Emblem Echoes play very different from their counterparts, if only due to how the swords work.

 

[Technomage]

I'm surprised people are soo gung-ho about discussing cuts right after a new character drops. I dunno, it just seems like crazy that this is our 3rd day in a row on this very topic.

Eh, I only started joined the discussion because other people brought it up, inspiring me to formulate my own thoughts on the matter.

I'll admit though, part of me did feel like it's too early to discuss Smash 6, let alone its potential cuts.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I'm surprised people are soo gung-ho about discussing cuts right after a new character drops. I dunno, it just seems like crazy that this is our 3rd day in a row on this very topic.

I take that as a sign people are bored of the characters alresdy

 

[N3ON]

To the people speaking to the great groundswell for fairly unpopular characters: which characters do you imagine would be the least requested to return upon being cut? Not not popular, least popular.

And do you realize that no matter who you say, someone will disagree with you?

I'm surprised people are soo gung-ho about discussing cuts right after a new character drops. I dunno, it just seems like crazy that this is our 3rd day in a row on this very topic.

I'm surprised people view cuts as a taboo topic when it happens regularly across the entire genre.

 

[SharkLord]

I say they should totally capitalize on this formula, and make many Echoes. The Fire Emblem Echoes play very different from their counterparts, if only due to how the swords work.

For a moment I thought you were talking about the Gaiden remake before I saw the full post. This is the real reason we have so many FE clones.

 

[SNEKeater]

Don’t forget that Fire Emblem Fates gets hate within the FE fanbase which doesn’t help Corrin.

That's true to an extent.

The fact there's 3 versions of Fates doesn't help as well because not everyone will experience the 3 different paths, but Fates Conquest is usually super well considered from a gameplay perspective, specially by hardcore fans.

And I agree. Story wise Conquest is probably worse than Birthright mind you, but gameplay wise? It's ****ing great. Better than Three Houses with no doubt if you ask me, and I enjoyed Three Houses' gameplay a lot.

 

[Opossum]

I don't care much for Corrin either but seeing people insist Corrin's one of the worst things that happened after 5 *ing years is so tiring. Literally nothing new has been said at all during any of this and it's just ****ting on characters because * them. Cut discussion's always been ****ing stale and is ironically enough completely offtopic for the thread but people need to say "Corrin bad give like" I suppose. I'm calling people pathetic for letting a 5 year old announcement stay rent ****ing free, I've gotten over Banjo forever ago so I felt like my fellow adults should get over themselves too

I'm gonna drop this here for risk of going off topic, but you're literally the only one acting like a child here, what with the constant cursing and insults.

 

[Shroob]

To the people speaking to the great groundswell for fairly unpopular characters: which characters do you imagine would be the least requested to return upon being cut? Not not popular, least popular.

And do you realize that no matter who you say, someone will disagree with you?


I'm surprised people view cuts as a taboo topic when it happens regularly across the entire genre.

I don't view it as taboo, I just view it as getting ahead of ourselves is all. We still got two characters to go, meanwhile, god knows how long we even have until Smash 6. It feels like we're discussing things soo far out in advance that we lose sight of what's in front of us right now is all. We're preparing for a hurricane next year when an earthquake is tomorrow.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

That's true to an extent.

The fact there's 3 versions of Fates doesn't help as well because not everyone will experience the 3 different paths, but Fates Conquest is usually super well considered from a gameplay perspective, specially by hardcore fans.

And I agree. Story wise Conquest is probably worse than Birthright mind you, but gameplay wise? It's ****ing great. Better than Three Houses with no doubt if you ask me, and I enjoyed Three Houses' gameplay a lot.

Plus, Conquest has Niles so by default, its better

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I'm gonna drop this here for risk of going off topic, but you're literally the only one acting like a child here, what with the constant cursing and insults.

The way people have handled this topic has been pretty civil and calm. Nobody here has been bashing Corrin fans, just merely criticising Corrin at worst.

 

[DevaAshera]

I mean... that's basically what's happened to Zelda since Brawl. Newer games are represented only with items and stages for the most part. Link getting a new visual look and a new knob added to his down special is pretty much the only thing in the last two games that reflected in characters. Zelda and Ganondorf, as others said, actually went backwards, with Zelda based on ALttP and Ganondorf on OoT.

Mostly due to the main characters of every Zelda game, Link & Zelda, already being in Smash, so they represent the newest game by themselves. Link & Zelda would have likely been updated to Skyward Sword if not for Ganondorf not having a design in that game..this time it was practically required for Link to be updated to his BotW look, another game lacking a Ganondorf, so I think Sakurai instead decided to represent previous entries with Zelda's LttP/LBW fusion design and Ganondorf's OoT design..which thanks to the remake of Ocarina of Time on 3DS was funnily enough his most recently used design, not counting Hyrule Warriors due to being a spinoff.

so then does Xenoblade have to represent every new game in their series as well? or what about Pokemon?

if Xenoblade Chronicles X and Pokemon Black & White fans are allowed to be underwhelmed than why aren't fans of any Fire Emblem game that was released in the last 15 years?

If they stay popular, yeah, pretty much..there's a reason people saw Rex & Pyra as locks before they knew they were too late.

Xenoblade X, yes, as it was the newest game at the time development started, but it was also before the series got popular, Black/White, not so much, as similar to Ruby/Sapphire, a newer generation game released before the next Smash Bros game and thus that Gen took priority over the previous Gen. The next Generation, and perhaps even Sword/Shield, will likely end up in the same boat.

To be honest, I know a lot of people do like Byleth but they don't particularly get a pass from me either. If Nintendo really wanted to show off something hot and new on Switch, it would have been great for them to take the opportunity to endorse a brand new promising IP like Ring Fit and Astral Chain. I feel like Fire Emblem has just evolved into the defacto "promotion" series on precedent and Nintendo took advantage of that again. The same could be said about Corrin relative to say, Elma or even Inkling (although I'm happy they waited until Ultimate to do them justice).

Their addition doesn't feel as egregious anymore with Min Min and Pyra / Mythra in tow, but I think there's still a case to be made for Byleth being a somewhat poor choice among other series that have been less fortunate and could have used a similar endorsement. Three Houses was already a success and Fire Emblem had gotten its boost from Smash plenty of times over already.

I feel like this is something that doesn't get acknowledged enough. A lot of criticism against the abundance of Fire Emblem is founded in relativity to other series in Smash - "why does Fire Emblem have eight characters and [insert series even though we all know I'm talking about Donkey Kong] only have this many?" I think a much stronger case is to realize how many series don't have a single character and how those opportunities are squandered in favor of piling on love for series that have already got it in spades. Just my two cents anyway.

I think that primarily comes down to Nintendo playing the odds. With base game, they can include stuff before they know if it was a success, but with DLC, it's much harder to tell if it'll succeed or bomb, this is probably why Inklings weren't considered for DLC last game but Corrin was. Fire Emblem is practically guaranteed to be a success, new IPs are not.

This is part of why they always save a spot for a new Pokémon in base, because that series prints money, and why I don't think a spot was saved for Rex/Pyra base game or first round of DLC, at that stage they hadn't been aware XBC2 was going to be a success but were pretty sure Three Houses was going to be..and then it became the best selling game in the entire series, making Byleth's inclusion make even more sense.

Sorry, but Byleth was a good decision, Sakurai was the one making bad decisions by incorporating so many Marth clones...Marth became the Ryu of Smash like that..

 

[Louie G.]

Thus, it's a safer bet to include a character from an already established and popular franchise for promotional purposes.

On one hand you're right. It makes sense. On the other hand playing it "safe" and just doing what makes sense is boring.

In all seriousness, Smash creates success stories. Fire Emblem itself probably wouldn't have the role it does in the modern Nintendo landscape had it not been for the introduction of Marth / Roy and Ike all those years ago (in the west, at least). Ness was thrown into Smash 64 just cuz and Earthbound has become a beloved cult classic with a dedicated and thriving community. Kid Icarus had a full-on revival because of the response to pit in Brawl, etc etc. Smash does an excellent job at showing people why they should care about these guys.

Certainly some people would be put off by the inclusion of a series that has yet to prove itself in the long run, but it wouldn't be the first time. I'd rather them take a risk on something like that and bring in something fresh and new rather than the same song and dance all over again - regardless of how unique Byleth is relative to the rest of the FE crew. And in the process of playing it safe it ironically got them a lot more backlash than Ring Fit Trainee / Dragaux or Officer Howard likely would have (not that it matters, they're making money anyway and all those suckers already bought the pass).

 

[Pillow]

I'm surprised people are soo gung-ho about discussing cuts right after a new character drops. I dunno, it just seems like crazy that this is our 3rd day in a row on this very topic.

It makes sense to me. We're closing in one what seems to be the end of Smash Ultimate, so I'm sure lots are curious to know what happens after FP2. If there's no FP3, or Smash Ultimate Deluxe, then everyone's hopes for content that missed the cut for Ultimate will be the next Smash installment.