Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Rie Sonomura]

When do we think the release date will be for Pyra and Mythra?

I'm guessing March 11th. I don't know if there will something like the Sephiroth challenge to get them early (since it would make that less special if they did it for every character), but I figure that there usually isn't a huge wait between a character's presentation and their release.

I’m calling same day as their presentation

 

[Shroob]

When do we think the release date will be for Pyra and Mythra?

I'm guessing March 11th. I don't know if there will something like the Sephiroth challenge to get them early (since it would make that less special if they did it for every character), but I figure that there usually isn't a huge wait between a character's presentation and their release.

Either day of or next week.

Historically, characters announced via Directs come out after their presentation. However, who knows at this point.

 

[cashregister9]

When do we think the release date will be for Pyra and Mythra?

I'm guessing March 11th. I don't know if there will something like the Sephiroth challenge to get them early (since it would make that less special if they did it for every character), but I figure that there usually isn't a huge wait between a character's presentation and their release. A week after the presentation seems reasonable.

I'm saying Friday Night.

 

[ZelDan]

I feel like if Pyra/Mythra don't release the same day as this Thursday's presentation, that we won't wait any longer than the following Tuesday, March 9th.

 

[7NATOR]

-It's time for Rex to stop being held at a $25 ransom. I know people usually prefer the blades over him, but I don't think it's right that he's still only tied to FP1 as of right now. FP1 is old news.


-Also on Rex, It's possible they made him a Costume in the first place, because they knew he couldn't be the playable character for represent Xenoblade Chronicles 2. Sakurai and the Team might have had enough time to consider how a character would be implemented and Rex did not fit into the plan


-Regarding the Second Chance Theory, My Problem with the theory, is that I've never seen anyone mention Potential Assist Trophy Promotion for the theory, despite any Potential Assist Fitting the theory better than anyone since they are given a True Second Chance

Steve and Sephiroth could be implied to have been delayed in implementation, but always planned to be playable, if Sakurai's Comments about "1-2 extra fighters would suffice" have any merits, and Min Min and Pyra/Mythra couldn't be considered for Roster

Any Assist Fighter would have to go through reconsideration of their role, Since I imagine there was thought of many of the Assists potentially being playable, even if only for seconds at a time.

the Closest thing to that is Alucard being brought up, only because Sakurai mentioned him, But I do have to wonder why no One brings up the other Popular assist trophies, and I know there are many here that don't even believe in the rule, so I'm confused

 

[3BitSaurus]

When do we think the release date will be for Pyra and Mythra?

I'm guessing March 11th. I don't know if there will something like the Sephiroth challenge to get them early (since it would make that less special if they did it for every character), but I figure that there usually isn't a huge wait between a character's presentation and their release. A week after the presentation seems reasonable.

I think within a week after the presentation, at most.

 

[Shroob]

-It's time for Rex to stop being held at a $25 ransom. I know people usually prefer the blades over him, but I don't think it's right that he's still only tied to FP1 as of right now. FP1 is old news.


-Also on Rex, It's possible they made him a Costume in the first place, because they knew he couldn't be the playable character for represent Xenoblade Chronicles 2. Sakurai and the Team might have had enough time to consider how a character would be implemented and Rex did not fit into the plan


-Regarding the Second Chance Theory, My Problem with the theory, is that I've never seen anyone mention Potential Assist Trophy Promotion for the theory, despite any Potential Assist Fitting the theory better than anyone since they are given a True Second Chance

Steve and Sephiroth could be implied to have been delayed in implementation, but always planned to be playable, if Sakurai's Comments about "1-2 extra fighters would suffice" have any merits, and Min Min and Pyra/Mythra couldn't be considered for Roster

Any Assist Fighter would have to go through reconsideration of their role, Since I imagine there was thought of many of the Assists potentially being playable, even if only for seconds at a time.

the Closest thing to that is Alucard being brought up, only because Sakurai mentioned him, But I do have to wonder why no One brings up the other Popular assist trophies, and I know there are many here that don't even believe in the rule, so I'm confused

Because Second Chance theory is built on a simple foundation.

Characters who missed the boat got nothing at all.
Characters who became assists GOT into the game.


Characters like Alucard were considered, but the Belmonts were chosen over him, but he still got in.


Likewise, ARMs and XB2 were flat out said to be "Too late", but they ended up getting in as DLC.


One got a role already in the game(Assists), the other got nothing.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

When do we think the release date will be for Pyra and Mythra?

I'm guessing March 11th. I don't know if there will something like the Sephiroth challenge to get them early (since it would make that less special if they did it for every character), but I figure that there usually isn't a huge wait between a character's presentation and their release. A week after the presentation seems reasonable.

Next week at best. Anyone thinking the same day are setting themselves up for disappointment.

 

[SpecterFlower]

what are all the characters we know of since 4 and ultimate's dev cycle to not be implemented?
I just know

Rhythm Heaven (datamined and leaked)
Alucard (sakurai said so)
Monster Hunter (inferred, and maybe datamined)
Chun li (leaked)
Yuri and Lyod (leaked)

is there anyone im missing? there's definitely more than this.

 

[Shroob]

Next week at best. Anyone thinking the same day are setting themselves up for disappointment.

He says that, but Joker, Hero, Banjo, Terry and Sephiroth all launched same day.

Meanwhile, Min Min, Steve and Byleth didn't.


There's more that have launched directly after their presentation than not, with our last one more or less coming the day of(Sephiroth).

 

[Icedragonadam]

It depends on if there's an event announced in a few hours. If there's no event/tourney announced then it's likely that the character will be released this week with the themed tourney being announced just after when the character's release will be announced.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Next week at best. Anyone thinking the same day are setting themselves up for disappointment.

Somehow I don't think this post will age well.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

what are all the characters we know of since 4 and ultimate's dev cycle to not be implemented?
I just know

Rhythm Heaven (datamined and leaked)
Alucard (sakurai said so)
Monster Hunter (inferred, and maybe datamined)
Chun li (leaked)
Yuri and Lyod (leaked)

is there anyone im missing? there's definitely more than this.

Decidueye (Sakurai said so and later decided on Incineroar)

 

[cashregister9]

Next week at best. Anyone thinking the same day are setting themselves up for disappointment.

You say that to any popular theory

what are all the characters we know of since 4 and ultimate's dev cycle to not be implemented?
I just know

Rhythm Heaven (datamined and leaked)
Alucard (sakurai said so)
Monster Hunter (inferred, and maybe datamined)
Chun li (leaked)
Yuri and Lyod (leaked)

is there anyone im missing? there's definitely more than this.

More accurately The last 2 are Rumored not leaked. Yeah I'm probably being a bit too pedantic about it but whatever.

It depends on if there's an event announced in a few hours. If there's no event/tourney announced then it's likely that the character will be released this week with the themed tourney being announced just after when the character's release will be announced.

If I remember properly, Steve had an unrelated Tourney the week he came out so if we don't get one it is definitely an indicator but if we do get one it is not the nail in the coffin just yet

 

[ZelDan]

Because Second Chance theory is built on a simple foundation.

Characters who missed the boat got nothing at all.
Characters who became assists GOT into the game.


Characters like Alucard were considered, but the Belmonts were chosen over him, but he still got in.


Likewise, ARMs and XB2 were flat out said to be "Too late", but they ended up getting in as DLC.


One got a role already in the game(Assists), the other got nothing.

Couldn't you say that Min Min and Pyra/Mythra "already got something" though with their spirits? It isn't as much as an AT or Mii costume but it's still technically something.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

what are all the characters we know of since 4 and ultimate's dev cycle to not be implemented?
I just know

Rhythm Heaven (datamined and leaked)
Alucard (sakurai said so)
Monster Hunter (inferred, and maybe datamined)
Chun li (leaked)
Yuri and Lyod (leaked)

is there anyone im missing? there's definitely more than this.

Chun Li, Yuri and Lloyd are only mentioned by a 4chan post so that's not hard proof. We know Takamaru was shot down due to being too obscure, Decidueye was replaced by Incineroar and Sakurai mentioned some other FF characters as options when talking about Cloud. Slime was also considered if he couldn't get Enix to give up the Heroes

 

[SpecterFlower]

Decidueye (Sakurai said so and later decided on Incineroar)

k, im just gonna make a big list so i don't have tor remember them off the top of my head.

rn it's like

unfinished characters

Rhythm Heaven (datamined and leaked)
Alucard (sakurai said so)
Monster Hunter (inferred, and maybe datamined, replaced?)
Chun li (leaked?)
Yuri and Lyod (leaked?)
Decidueye (sakurai said so, replaced)
Ninjara (sakurai said so, replaced)
Takumara (sakurai said so)
Slime (Sakurai said so, replaced)
FF characters (Sakurai said so, replaced)

unfinished but came back at a later date

Min-Min (game came out too early)
Steve (long negotiations)
Sephiroth (long negotiations)
Pyra and Mythra (game came out too early)

though i doubt either decidueye or NInjara will be coming

 

[Shroob]

Couldn't you say that Min Min and Pyra/Mythra "already got something" though with their spirits? It isn't as much as an AT or Mii costume but it's still technically something.

I mean at the end of the day, this boils down to if you think .pngs are on the same level of Assists.

I've never once thought that spirits deconfirm, but Assists sure do.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Let us not forget about Ninjara which Min Min was chosen instead.

'd

 

[SharkLord]

-It's time for Rex to stop being held at a $25 ransom. I know people usually prefer the blades over him, but I don't think it's right that he's still only tied to FP1 as of right now. FP1 is old news.


-Also on Rex, It's possible they made him a Costume in the first place, because they knew he couldn't be the playable character for represent Xenoblade Chronicles 2. Sakurai and the Team might have had enough time to consider how a character would be implemented and Rex did not fit into the plan


-Regarding the Second Chance Theory, My Problem with the theory, is that I've never seen anyone mention Potential Assist Trophy Promotion for the theory, despite any Potential Assist Fitting the theory better than anyone since they are given a True Second Chance

Steve and Sephiroth could be implied to have been delayed in implementation, but always planned to be playable, if Sakurai's Comments about "1-2 extra fighters would suffice" have any merits, and Min Min and Pyra/Mythra couldn't be considered for Roster

Any Assist Fighter would have to go through reconsideration of their role, Since I imagine there was thought of many of the Assists potentially being playable, even if only for seconds at a time.

the Closest thing to that is Alucard being brought up, only because Sakurai mentioned him, But I do have to wonder why no One brings up the other Popular assist trophies, and I know there are many here that don't even believe in the rule, so I'm confused

Couldn't you say that Min Min and Pyra/Mythra "already got something" though with their spirits? It isn't as much as an AT or Mii costume but it's still technically something.

For me, the main crux of the whether or Second Chance applies is if they were replaced as a fighter, or if they simply didn't make the roster. ARMS and XC2 were stated to missed their shot, but there wasn't any character who replaced them. In the other hand, Decidueye and Alucard were clearly stated to have been dropped in favor of Incineroar and the Belmonts, and so there are no loose ends to tie up.

 

[BlondeLombax]

Okay, what even does Greninja'd mean, anyway? Is it calling back to Zoroark getting the shaft in favor of Greninja itself or something?

 

[Shroob]

Okay, what even does Greninja'd mean, anyway? Is it calling back to Zoroark getting the shaft in favor of Greninja itself or something?

Ya know how if someone posts something before you, you call that "Ninja'd?"


Yeah.

 

[Technomage]

Okay, what even does Greninja'd mean, anyway? Is it calling back to Zoroark getting the shaft in favor of Greninja itself or something?

No, it's based on the term "ninja'd". Here's the definition:

Urban Dictionary: ninja'd

When posting on a forum, you submit a post only to find that someone has posted the same thing only seconds earlier.

www.urbandictionary.com

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Okay, what even does Greninja'd mean, anyway? Is it calling back to Zoroark getting the shaft in favor of Greninja itself or something?

It means ninja'd. As in something you're about to post, someone else beats you to it as if it was stealthy like a ninja.

 

[BlondeLombax]

Ya know how if someone posts something before you, you call that "Ninja'd?"


Yeah.

First I've heard of the term. Now I understand. Thank you.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

When do we think the release date will be for Pyra and Mythra?

I'm guessing March 11th. I don't know if there will something like the Sephiroth challenge to get them early (since it would make that less special if they did it for every character), but I figure that there usually isn't a huge wait between a character's presentation and their release. A week after the presentation seems reasonable.

I’m going with the 18th of this Month. Not because its likely or anything I just like thinking it’ll be on my Birthday.

 

[SpecterFlower]

unfinished characters

Rhythm Heaven (datamined and leaked) 4
Alucard (sakurai said so) ult
Monster Hunter (inferred, and maybe datamined, replaced?) ult
Chun li (leaked?) ult
Yuri and Lyod (leaked?) ult
Decidueye (sakurai said so, replaced) ult
Ninjara (sakurai said so, replaced) ult
Takumara (sakurai said so) 4
Slime (Sakurai said so, replaced) ult
FF characters (Sakurai said so, replaced) ult, 4
Heihachi (troubled implementation) 4
Geno (sakurai said so) 4
Alph (was scrapped in favour of being a costume) 4


unfinished but came back at a later date

Chrom (get reconsidered and added into a later game) ult
Min-Min (game came out too early) fp2
Steve (long negotiations) fp2
Sephiroth (long negotiations) fp2
Pyra and Mythra (game came out too early) fp2

i think this is everything we know of

there are more if we go back but anything beyond this dev cycle isn't useful as they were considered during a different dev cycle.

 

[Ivander]

First I've heard of the term. Now I understand. Now I know.

And knowing is half the battle.

 

[7NATOR]

When do we think the release date will be for Pyra and Mythra?

I'm guessing March 11th. I don't know if there will something like the Sephiroth challenge to get them early (since it would make that less special if they did it for every character), but I figure that there usually isn't a huge wait between a character's presentation and their release. A week after the presentation seems reasonable.

March 4th, or the Next day

Because Second Chance theory is built on a simple foundation.

Characters who missed the boat got nothing at all.
Characters who became assists GOT into the game.


Characters like Alucard were considered, but the Belmonts were chosen over him, but he still got in.


Likewise, ARMs and XB2 were flat out said to be "Too late", but they ended up getting in as DLC.


One got a role already in the game(Assists), the other got nothing.

As mentioned, Min Min, Pyra/Mythra, as well as other candiates for this theory like Chun-Li and others already have roles in the game. They negotiated for those roles intially

Assists are a bigger role than Spirits I'd admit, but at the same time both Spirits and Assist are NPC Roles given

I just think that with a name like Second chance, that Assists fit that merit perfectly since they are getting another chance to become a Fighter. We saw with Bomberman that he got reconsidered in his Role, and he got a Premium Mii Costume

For me, the main crux of the whether or Second Chance applies is if they were replaced as a fighter, or if they simply didn't make the roster. ARMS and XC2 were stated to missed their shot, but there wasn't any character who replaced them. In the other hand, Decidueye and Alucard were clearly stated to have been dropped in favor of Incineroar and the Belmonts, and so there are no loose ends to tie up.

I don't think Alucard is getting in anyway, as I do think he got replaced by Belmonts. I will say I wasn't talking about him

I'm talking about some of the other Assists, Like Waluigi, Shadow, Lyn, Shovel Knight, Isaac, Skull Kid, etc, Who could have their roles reconsidered for any reason

Min Min and Pyra/Mythra situation was based on Timing, but I don't think that's the only thing that can be a source of reconsideration/consideration. Whether it be a character got more merit, There's more space on the roster through DLC that we can get these characters in, and etc

Keep in mind that DLC wasn't a thing until January of 2018, by that time Most of the base game content was set in stone. In cases like Shovel Knight and Shadow, who are 3rd party, they were already negotiated for their Assists because Base roster was already decided, they weren't on it, and it seems DLC wasn't in mind when Content was decided. Even if they were being decided as DLC, I don't know if they throw away their Assists or anything like that

All the Backlash towards certain Assists like Waluigi, Ashley, Bomberman, Isaac, Shadow, Skull Kid also took place after that DLC Date.

I just think that situations regarding Second Chance can be more nuanced in their situations and stuff like that. We already see this being taken into accoutn in the difference between ARMS/Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and Alucard/Decidueye, but I think it can be taken even further

 

[N3ON]

unfinished characters

Rhythm Heaven (datamined and leaked) 4
Alucard (sakurai said so) ult
Monster Hunter (inferred, and maybe datamined, replaced?) ult
Chun li (leaked?) ult
Yuri and Lyod (leaked?) ult
Decidueye (sakurai said so, replaced) ult
Ninjara (sakurai said so, replaced) ult
Takumara (sakurai said so) 4
Slime (Sakurai said so, replaced) ult
FF characters (Sakurai said so, replaced) ult, 4
Heihachi (troubled implementation) 4
Geno (sakurai said so) 4
Alph (was scrapped in favour of being a costume) 4


unfinished but came back at a later date

Chrom (get reconsidered and added into a later game) ult
Min-Min (game came out too early) fp2
Steve (long negotiations) fp2
Sephiroth (long negotiations) fp2
Pyra and Mythra (game came out too early) fp2

i think this is everything we know of

there are more if we go back but anything beyond this dev cycle isn't useful as they were considered during a different dev cycle.

That's highly misleading. Unfinished means they got to the final stage before actually being completed, which is actually worked on and just not finished.

The vast majority of these characters didn't get past being considered, let alone planned, let alone worked on.

 

[Shroob]

March 4th, or the Next day



As mentioned, Min Min, Pyra/Mythra, as well as other candiates for this theory like Chun-Li and others already have roles in the game. They negotiated for those roles intially

Assists are a bigger role than Spirits I'd admit, but at the same time both Spirits and Assist are NPC Roles given

I just think that with a name like Second chance, that Assists fit that merit perfectly since they are getting another chance to become a Fighter. We saw with Bomberman that he got reconsidered in his Role, and he got a Premium Mii Costume



I don't think Alucard is getting in anyway, as I do think he got replaced by Belmonts. I will say I wasn't talking about him

I'm talking about some of the other Assists, Like Waluigi, Shadow, Lyn, Shovel Knight, Isaac, Skull Kid, etc, Who could have their roles reconsidered for any reason

Min Min and Pyra/Mythra situation was based on Timing, but I don't think that's the only thing that can be a source of reconsideration/consideration. Whether it be a character got more merit, There's more space on the roster through DLC that we can get these characters in, and etc

Keep in mind that DLC wasn't a thing until January of 2018, by that time Most of the base game content was set in stone. In cases like Shovel Knight and Shadow, who are 3rd party, they were already negotiated for their Assists because Base roster was already decided, they weren't on it, and it seems DLC wasn't in mind when Content was decided. Even if they were being decided as DLC, I don't know if they throw away their Assists or anything like that

All the Backlash towards certain Assists like Waluigi, Ashley, Bomberman, Isaac, Shadow, Skull Kid also took place after that DLC Date.

I just think that situations regarding Second Chance can be more nuanced in their situations and stuff like that. We already see this being taken into accoutn in the difference between ARMS/Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and Alucard/Decidueye, but I think it can be taken even further

I mean, real talk here for a moment.


If you think we're getting an Assist Promotion THIS late into the pass, when we have 2 spots left, and our next character almost assuredly being the E3 drop?


I'm not gonna say it's impossible for CP11, because hey, sky's the limit, but with 2 characters left, 1 of which will be the E3 bomb, something that no current Assist fills, and CP11 probably being a 3rd party, or Switch game character if I were to bet money on it...?


Yeah.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Calm down. This is the DLC Speculation thread. People are allowed to say "I'd rather have" just as much as they're allowed to say "I support".

Besides tons of people have talked about Chun Li in Smash already. And why would someone post a birthday tweet in the DLC Speculation thread, unless it was related to all the speculation that was happening.

Nothing against Chun Li

If your very first reaction to someone posting an innocent birthday tweet of a character is saying how much you don't want the character in Smash, despite no one even bringing it up, me thinks you might have something against that character.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I mean at the end of the day, this boils down to if you think .pngs are on the same level of Assists.

I've never once thought that spirits deconfirm, but Assists sure do.

Man I remember some people here were EXTREMELY adamant that spirits deconfirmed characters

they took the biggest L ever when Min Min got revealed lmao I haven’t seen them since

 

[SharkLord]

I mean, real talk here for a moment.


If you think we're getting an Assist Promotion THIS late into the pass, when we have 2 spots left, and our next character almost assuredly being the E3 drop?


I'm not gonna say it's impossible for CP11, because hey, sky's the limit, but with 2 characters left, 1 of which will be the E3 bomb, something that no current Assist fills, and CP11 probably being a 3rd party, or Switch game character if I were to bet money on it...?


Yeah.

I feel like Shovel Knight could make a sizeable impact at E3, actually. He's become the face of Western indies, and for some, indies in general. Plus, a %$#@load of cameos, including Arby's (Which I just can't help but find funny). Seeing as E3's a Western event, I feel like one of the biggest Western indies around would make quite a splash there.

Or at least, he would have, had E3 not shot up to such a ludicrous entry fee. That seems like a bit of a deal breaker. Still, that wouldn't make any of the planned E3 reveals go away.

 

[Guynamednelson]

probably being a 3rd party

What kind of 3rd party, though? Can't be something big, because they go for more low-key characters at the end since they already got your money.

Arby's

Is Arby's now going to be the dumping ground for indie game kid's meal toys?

 

[Shroob]

I feel like Shovel Knight could make a sizeable impact at E3, actually. He's become the face of Western indies, and for some, indies in general. Plus, a %$#@load of cameos, including Arby's (Which I just can't help but find funny). Seeing as E3's a Western event, I feel like one of the biggest Western indies around would make quite a splash there.

Or at least, he would have, had E3 not shot up to such a ludicrous entry fee. That seems like a bit of a deal breaker. Still, that wouldn't make any of the planned E3 reveals go away.

As much as I'd love Shovel Knight music in Smash, the only way forward I see for it is Mii Costume.

I really, really don't expect Assist Upgrades, and so far I think I have luck on my side for this one tbh.

 

[SharkLord]

Is Arby's now going to be the dumping ground for indie game kid's meal toys?

I'm not the Arby's expert here. You tell me.

 

[Guynamednelson]

As much as I'd love Shovel Knight music in Smash, the only way forward I see for it is Mii Costume.

I really, really don't expect Assist Upgrades, and so far I think I have luck on my side for this one tbh.

I don't expect Shovel Knight myself, not because he has an assist, but because the only "indie" that's a fighter hasn't been one for years. It wasn't one when Nintendo started begging Sakurai to put him in Smash!

 

[7NATOR]

I mean, real talk here for a moment.


If you think we're getting an Assist Promotion THIS late into the pass, when we have 2 spots left, and our next character almost assuredly being the E3 drop?


I'm not gonna say it's impossible for CP11, because hey, sky's the limit, but with 2 characters left, 1 of which will be the E3 bomb, something that no current Assist fills, and CP11 probably being a 3rd party, or Switch game character if I were to bet money on it...?


Yeah.

Waluigi and Shadow (& Knuckles) could fill the role of E3 Reveal though. Shovel Knight, Isaac, and Skull Kid could maybe have this effect as well

Also I would say if they did have Assist Promotions in the pass, now would be the best time to do it

The Assists are already in the game in some form, so if you want to go by the logic that they want to get as Many sales as early as they can, These Potential Assists, while Popular, Already might appeal to audiences buying Smash already, especially character like Waluigi where there is plenty of Mario Content in the game already

There's also the issue that people might feel scammed by these Assists being Playable, because they might feel Nintendo just held off these characters to make us give them more money. Yes Assists don't have nearly as much effort as a Fighter, but there's some people that might not believe that anyway

 

[PeridotGX]

as part of second chances theory, toon sheik (not tetra) will be the next dlc fighter. you heard it here first.